Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/ValterVBot 10

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
 Approved--Ymblanter (talk) 22:15, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ValterVBot 10

[edit]

ValterVBot (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
Operator: ValterVB (talk • contribs • logs)

Task/s: Add Census Population to all Italian municipalities (8092 municipality)

Code: I use a heavily modified version of DotNetDataBot by Bene*

Function details: Add population (P1082) with qualifier point in time (P585) = 2013 10 09, source=2011 Italian census (Q15715120), Description of edit: "Add Population - Italian Census 2011". Some test: Abbadia Cerreto (Q42303), Abbadia Lariana (Q42265), Abbadia San Salvatore (Q91096) --ValterVB (talk) 14:05, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments:
  1. If there are some decent permalinks, I think it would useful to add them directly in the source of the statement.
  2. there are various ways a population can be counted. I think it should be specified using a qualifier, probably criterion used (P1013) (or arguably just instance of (P31)). The value of the qualifier could be something like "popolazione legale or whatever it is (I know France, better, so to take a French example, it could be population without double counting (Q653524). The exact definition of Q653524 should be provided in the item itself, but that is not trivial and I guess that can be done later on.
  3. I think we should make it clear in the qualifiers, that these are results from a census (for instance in some cases, in France, the INSEE provides census data every 5 years and estimates or extrapolation for other years). I guess the best solution would be determination method or standard (P459): census (Q39825)
Potentially interested users: @Lavallen, VIGNERON, Kvardek du: --Zolo (talk) 14:50, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thx for the ping, Zolo!
I have added a request regarding Swedish urban areas in Wikidata:Bot requests, feel free to test with that task too if you like. I have described the method in more or less the same way as you have done above.
The traditions of censuses looks different in different nations. In Sweden everything it taken from databases, and it's the method since the 17th century. The only exception is if there is a prediction of how it will change in the future. Illegal imigrants and people who do not live at the location they have told the government agencies are therefor not counted correctly. -- Lavallen (talk) 15:54, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Answer

@Zolo:

  1. I haven't found it, If I found it I can add to 2011 Italian census (Q15715120)
  2. criterion used (P1013) In italian page is called «classic method or traditional census» (with questionnaire) so I have added questionnaire (Q747810) to 2011 Italian census (Q15715120)
  3. Yes I can add determination method or standard (P459) = census (Q39825) to every item.

@Lavallen: I'll check you request --ValterVB (talk) 11:40, 9 February 2014 (UTC) PS: I have update the examples with this property. --ValterVB (talk) 11:52, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. However, criterion used (P1013) is who we count not how we count. So I would say "questionnaire" should also be indicated using determination method or standard (P459). p1013 should rather provide information about things like

"do we count immigrants ?" or "if someone has two homes in two different cities, is she counted once or twice?". If this is too difficult to explain through Wikidata statements, the item used in criterion used (P1013), say "Italian legal population", could simply contain a link an external page explaining in more detail who is counted. --Zolo (talk) 12:19, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For urban areas, "who" are the persons who have their primary residence in buildings inside the geographic boundaries of the entity. But those boundaries are defined by if somebody live inside the buildings or not. So it still depends on the definition. In Sweden nobody have their official residence in two real estates. The second is always considered temporary, even if it maybe is a prison or a retirement home, you maybe have to stay inside for decades and the rest of your life.
Earlier we used questionnaire (Q747810) in censuses, but not for the head counting, but for how people lived, i.e. how many rooms/m2, standard for kitchen etc. I think Statistics Sweden abandoned that system when the municipalities refused to pay for the task. Instead are they using the information in databases for real estates. This is the land of Big Brother, you know!
Immigrants are counted, but not the illigal imigrants, of course, since they are not in the record of the goverment agencies. The local goverments sometimes know who and where they are, because they have to take care of the health care and the school for their children, but that is not really official. -- Lavallen (talk) 12:49, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have modified a bit 2011 Italian census (Q15715120), so now there is determination method or standard (P459) and criterion used (P1013), I have created legal population of Italy (Q15719697) but need info to add. --ValterVB (talk) 14:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That looks good to me, but I would rather have p459 and p1013 as qualifiers of the population than as statements in 2011 Italian census (Q15715120): these are the determination method and criteria used to determine the population not to determine the census. Also, it may happen that the same source uses several different methods (in France a different method is used for small than for large communes), and in this case we would be unable to know which method has been used for an individual commune if this is not indicated directly in the item about it. --Zolo (talk) 14:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Zolo: Be bold :) can you update one of the example with your suggestion? --ValterVB (talk) 15:38, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@ValterVB: done here, I just moved two qualifiers from 2011 Italian census (Q15715120) to Abbadia Cerreto (Q42303). --Zolo (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I have modified the bot to manage multiple value for the same qualifiers and I have update the other two example. --ValterVB (talk) 16:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No one oppose, so I start. --ValterVB (talk) 15:00, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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