Property talk:P121

Documentation

item operated
equipment, installation or service operated by the subject

Description

object used by the subject

Represents

operator (Q29933786)

Data type

Item

Domain

According to this template: organization (Q43229), mainly airline (Q46970) ; also used by many aviation incident (Q15733640)

According to statements in the property:
agent (Q24229398), fictional organization (Q14623646), group of humans (Q16334295), occurrence (Q1190554), military unit class (Q62934160), service (Q7406919), transport facility (Q55006986), facility (Q13226383), fictional character (Q95074), occupation (Q12737077), media (Q340169), itinerary (Q1322323), fleet (Q47311934), industry (Q268592), utility software (Q312466) or process (Q3249551)

When possible, data should only be stored as statements

Example

transport (Q7590) → craft (Q1294755)
Lufthansa (Q9325) → Airbus A380 (Q5830)
British Airways (Q8766) → Concorde (Q6505)
rail transport (Q3565868) → railway (Q22667)
truck driver (Q508846) → truck (Q43193)
United States Air Force (Q11223) → Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor (Q133324)
Meta Platforms (Q380) → Facebook (Q355)

Tracking: usage

Category:Pages using Wikidata property P121 (Q21037765)

Generalization of the property

Recently User:Joshbaumgartner silently has changed the scope of the property: from planes to general objects. Additionally he changed some (not all) labels so the property became inconsistent in different languages. Let's discuss if this change is appropriate and if so, the other labels should be refined. --Infovarius (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, may be the first was User:Shonagon. --Infovarius (talk) 14:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Infovarius :). I just changed labels in French, because I noticed too that the scope of the property has indeed changed, without any malice imho, and it was nonsense. See those discussions https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Swpb#P137 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Shonagon#Re:_https:.2F.2Fwww.wikidata.org.2Fw.2Findex.php.3Ftitle.3DProperty:P137.26diff.3Dprev.26oldid.3D222871838. Do the best you think. Best regards --Shonagon (talk) 14:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't intending to be secretive, just being bold. Seeing as there may be some discussion warranted, I reverted my label change pending discussion. That said, this was a property created early on in the project. There is really no need whatsoever for the property's values or scope to be limited to aircraft. As for labels, I don't speak all languages, so attempting to change all language labels based on a translator would be as bad or worse than letting them be until they can be changed by someone who actually understands the languages in question. I propose we widen the scope as follows: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should @Sven Manguard, NaBUru38, Wylve, Milad A380, Faux: those who participated in a creation of the property. --Infovarius (talk) 06:15, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think the property is too broad to be useful as proposed below. A truck driver no doubt uses a truck, but he or she also uses food (for everyday consumption as a human), a house to live in, a bed to sleep in, etc. There is no end to the values of this property. A person uses more than a billion things in his or her life and could be well-fitted in the proposed scope change. I have no problem with the property extended to other transport organizations other than airlines, such as racing teams for the race cars used, or bus companies for the buses used. So "utilizes" in this sense remains to mean "the fleet of an organization that conducts regular transport business". —Wylve (talk) 09:27, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

utilizes

Documentation

item operated
equipment, installation or service operated by the subject

Description

item used by the subject

Represents

operator (Q29933786)

Data type

Item

Domain

According to this template: objects, actions

According to statements in the property:
agent (Q24229398), fictional organization (Q14623646), group of humans (Q16334295), occurrence (Q1190554), military unit class (Q62934160), service (Q7406919), transport facility (Q55006986), facility (Q13226383), fictional character (Q95074), occupation (Q12737077), media (Q340169), itinerary (Q1322323), fleet (Q47311934), industry (Q268592), utility software (Q312466) or process (Q3249551)

When possible, data should only be stored as statements

Example

According to this template:

⟨ transport (Q7590)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ Q1294755 ⟩

⟨ Lufthansa (Q9325)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ Q5830 ⟩

⟨ British Airways (Q8766)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ Q6505 ⟩

⟨ United States Air Force (Q11223)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ 133324 ⟩

⟨ rail transport (Q3565868)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ Q22667 ⟩

⟨ truck driver (Q508846)  

 ⟩ utilizes Search ⟨ Q43193 ⟩

According to statements in the property:
transport (Q7590) → craft (Q1294755)
Lufthansa (Q9325) → Airbus A380 (Q5830)
British Airways (Q8766) → Concorde (Q6505)
rail transport (Q3565868) → railway (Q22667)
truck driver (Q508846) → truck (Q43193)
United States Air Force (Q11223) → Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor (Q133324)
Meta Platforms (Q380) → Facebook (Q355)

When possible, data should only be stored as statements

Tracking: usage

Category:Pages using Wikidata property P121 (Q21037765)

See also

vessel (P1876)

Lists

Proposal discussion

Current uses

Total	57,462
Main statement	44,217	76.9% of uses
Qualifier	13,244	23% of uses
Reference	1	<0.1% of uses

Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Type “agent (Q24229398), fictional organization (Q14623646), group of humans (Q16334295), occurrence (Q1190554), military unit class (Q62934160), service (Q7406919), transport facility (Q55006986), facility (Q13226383), fictional character (Q95074), occupation (Q12737077), media (Q340169), itinerary (Q1322323), fleet (Q47311934), industry (Q268592), utility software (Q312466), process (Q3249551)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “agent (Q24229398), fictional organization (Q14623646), group of humans (Q16334295), occurrence (Q1190554), military unit class (Q62934160), service (Q7406919), transport facility (Q55006986), facility (Q13226383), fictional character (Q95074), occupation (Q12737077), media (Q340169), itinerary (Q1322323), fleet (Q47311934), industry (Q268592), utility software (Q312466), process (Q3249551)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P121#Type Q24229398, Q14623646, Q16334295, Q1190554, Q62934160, Q7406919, Q55006986, Q13226383, Q95074, Q12737077, Q340169, Q1322323, Q47311934, Q268592, Q312466, Q3249551, SPARQL

Value type “goods (Q28877), collection (Q2668072), database (Q8513), facility (Q13226383), service (Q7406919), museum (Q33506), legal instrument (Q3150005), artificial intelligence (Q11660), brand (Q431289), physical tool (Q39546), itinerary (Q1322323), media (Q340169), railway line (Q728937), fictional technology (Q1055307), technical system (Q994895), goods and services (Q2897903), fleet (Q47311934), esports team (Q61974339), dam (Q12323), bridge (Q12280), sports league (Q623109), sports team (Q12973014), top-level domain (Q14296), retail chain (Q507619), machine (Q11019), university (Q3918), association football club (Q476028), conglomerate (Q778575), multi-channel network (Q14635346), fictional entity (Q14897293)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value goods (Q28877), collection (Q2668072), database (Q8513), facility (Q13226383), service (Q7406919), museum (Q33506), legal instrument (Q3150005), artificial intelligence (Q11660), brand (Q431289), physical tool (Q39546), itinerary (Q1322323), media (Q340169), railway line (Q728937), fictional technology (Q1055307), technical system (Q994895), goods and services (Q2897903), fleet (Q47311934), esports team (Q61974339), dam (Q12323), bridge (Q12280), sports league (Q623109), sports team (Q12973014), top-level domain (Q14296), retail chain (Q507619), machine (Q11019), university (Q3918), association football club (Q476028), conglomerate (Q778575), multi-channel network (Q14635346), fictional entity (Q14897293) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P121#Value type Q28877, Q2668072, Q8513, Q13226383, Q7406919, Q33506, Q3150005, Q11660, Q431289, Q39546, Q1322323, Q340169, Q728937, Q1055307, Q994895, Q2897903, Q47311934, Q61974339, Q12323, Q12280, Q623109, Q12973014, Q14296, Q507619, Q11019, Q3918, Q476028, Q778575, Q14635346, Q14897293, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P121#Entity types

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P121#Scope, SPARQL

Support This property should be as broad as reasonable. Sub properties can be created if necessary, but limiting the property to aviation as in the original incarnation is completely unnecessary. With a broad application, this property can fit most needs without having to create a plethora of item and value specific properties. @Infovarius, Shonagon: I look forward to your input. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Support As still said, 1. there is no need for restricted scope ; in restricted context is still the same property. 2. Imho it is not a good to multiply the properties if it is not really needed 3. It is stil used with large scope 4. With the large scope it coiuld be the opposite of operator (P137) --Shonagon (talk) 17:20, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Valid use case?

I came across this property in Q19872361 as of 348168967. Do you consider this a valid use case for this property? If so, we really need to get the property documentation above updated. Pinging @Joshbaumgartner, Wylve, Shonagon, Infovarius, Sven Manguard, NaBUru38: who participated in the property creation or the discussion above. Should probably also try to ping users who can update labels in other languages, currently it seems like most non-English labels are not updated. Danmichaelo (talk) 17:50, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I must be blind, but can't find an instance of item operated (P121) used in the cited version of Jo Cox (Q19872361) (348168967). Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:20, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner: ~~Wow, that's weird, I cannot see it either now. But I have a screenshot of the item that I took at 2016-06-16, 17.32.30 UTC (in Norwegian Bokmål): https://hostr.co/file/S0qjuMBkR8BW/2016-06-16.png .~~ Seems like it was removed just before I copied the url. Here's the latest revision it occured in: 348168544. Danmichaelo (talk) 11:15, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Danmichaelo: Ah, I see it! I haven't been using this as a qualifier, but I don't see why not in this case. I always try and think of the query that would be served, and if someone was to ask for 'significant events involving Jo Cox where a firearm was used', then that qualifier would actually be useful. The confusion may come however, when merely reading the WD entry one might not be sure how to read that statement: does it mean she committed an assassination with a firearm, that someone else used a firearm on her, did the event itself use a firearm? Knowing the answer it is easy to get the right meaning, but will it be clear to one who doesn't. However, this is using qualifiers more like descriptors to add detail, not necessarily to qualify query results. As a true qualifier, I have no problem with that use case, until a better property is deployed. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 01:41, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

P121 and subproperty of (P1647)

superset uses (P2283) said: "uses"; "item or concept used by the subject or in the operation". P121:"item operated"; "object used by the subject". The same? --Fractaler (talk) 11:42, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

it's just about air fleets, about planes, nothing else?

Description: "equipment, installation or service operated by the subject" --Fractaler (talk) 06:15, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This should be about tools or something similar.

Some explanation in section below. d1g (talk) 16:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We should have "tool normally operated" or "possible tools in process", somewhat similar to vehicle normally used (P3438) d1g (talk) 16:41, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Use of P121

Is P121 also intended to be used to tell what aircraft (i.e Spitfire, MiG and so on) a pilot/flyer flew? Breg--Pmt (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

can we use process (Q3249551) with it?

I used it on barter (Q484830) food and drink preparation (Q16920758), any better alternatives?

I think than many items can "used" in some process. Should we use has use (P366)? d1g (talk) 16:47, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tools(equipment) and materials to execute some process are described per process in professional literature about processes.

Not per tool ("tool can be used in processes at following stages") or material.

My idea is just simplification of data entry if one decides to read such books. d1g (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

facilities

Is it OK to say that The Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity (Doherty Institute) (Q33121652) has item operated (P121) Victorian Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory (Q30256195)? Where Q30256195 appears to be a facility that's not an organization in its own right (which would make it has subsidiary (P355)). Ghouston (talk) 04:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. "Facility operated" is one of the aliases. Swpb (talk) 14:34, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I added it to the constraint. Ghouston (talk) 22:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ferry routes

Could this property be used for a ferry (Q25653) operating a ferry route (Q18984099)? --Cavernia (talk) 13:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Revert

Hi Swpb, so it is wrong for you to say on Paris Métro (Q50716) that it has item operated (P121) Paris Métro Line 1 (Q13224) ? Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 17:28, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Paris Métro (Q50716) is the physical system. The operator, as you can see on Paris Métro (Q50716), is RATP (Q643290). A valid statement, which I just added, is RATP (Q643290)item operated (P121)Paris Métro (Q50716), which is the inverse of the existing statement on Paris Métro (Q50716). Paris Métro Line 1 (Q13224) is part of (P361) Paris Métro (Q50716) (which is also already stated on both those items), so it can be inferred that it is also operated by RATP (Q643290). Swpb (talk) 17:34, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not convinced sorry.

A bus driver can operate a bus, a bus line. A network can operate a bus, a bus line. part of (P361) is too vague. Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 19:57, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's simply not what "operate" means. A network made of tracks, trains, or buses cannot operate anything; it is not an agent (Q24229398). An organization like RATP (Q643290) is. There is a more precise property than part of (P361) to relate a rail line to its rail network: its sub-property transport network (P16), which you'll see is already used on Paris Métro Line 1 (Q13224). For the inverse, relation though, there is only has part(s) (P527). Swpb (talk) 20:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you re-read the english description "equipment, installation or service operated by the subject", it does implies a relationship between (a general master/organisation/people) operating (a more specific/smaller part of that organisation/component). Subject may be a physical (people) or a passive agent. So why are you accepting fleet inside the constraints. Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 20:15, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fleet should not be an acceptable subject class of item operated (P121); I will migrate any such uses and remove it from the constraint. "equipment, installation or service operated by the subject" does not imply that the subject can be a non-agent. Only agents can operate things. Whoever added "fleet", "itinerary", etc. to the subject-type constraint was probably confusing subject-type constraint for object-type constraint: these things can be objects of the property. Swpb (talk) 20:17, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are repurposing items/property. Before doing this, please ask for a consensus in a topic at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat and ask for that propery be on with physical agents (which I don't agree) as you are going outside the original property proposal https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/1#P121 Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 20:23, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not "repurposing" anything; you're just misreading what the purpose of the property is and always has been. Non-agents simply cannot operate things. Swpb (talk) 20:37, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A network can be seen as an agent, as it could be considered as an organisation. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/1#P121 was about "an airline operating a certain type of aircraft". So a network can operate certain types of trains, tracks, lines. Post a subject and get consensus first, please. Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 20:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An airline is an organization and therefore an agent, so of course it can operate things. An airline is not a network; it operates a network (of planes, facilities, etc.). That network doesn't operate anything itself. Again, I am not changing anything about how this property is meant to be used. There is no change to require a consensus for. It has always been the case that operators must be agents, by the very definition of the word "operate". Swpb (talk) 20:47, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Replacement property" in type constraint

@Swpb: Hi, I removed replacement property (P6824) parameter from the type constraint since the constraint does not accept such parameter, and it results in a error of the violations report. Samoasambia ✎ 10:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Property talk:P121

Contents

Documentation

Generalization of the property

utilizes

Documentation

Valid use case?

P121 and subproperty of (P1647)

it's just about air fleets, about planes, nothing else?

Use of P121

can we use process (Q3249551) with it?

facilities

Ferry routes

Revert

"Replacement property" in type constraint

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