@penguwastaken on Tumblr

Hi! I'm Pengu, this is just a new pinned post for my Tumblr account, nothing special.

I do a lot of writing and analysis stuff, primarily on Bluesky (go follow me), but I figured it would be a good idea to start posting my longer analysis threads here since Tumblr doesn't have a character limit and is more built for this stuff (as seen with my epic Danganronpa brainwashing post). So expect a lot of really long Danganronpa and Ace Attorney posts.

I also barely use this site, so apologies if I miss something or if I don't respond right away.

(this is what i look like 100% trust)

penguwastaken

john-golt-publishing-1957 asked:

Why can't people ask anonymously anymore?

Because I barely use this website and I don't really care to waste my time on people trying to argue with me with anonymous messages.

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

I love how you won't even accept the BAREST possibility of mixed messaging by Kodaka about his intent even though he outright GIVES straight comments that conflict with the idea of a clear intent. Wow.

"That point, might be the only scene with my own thoughts in it." -Kazutaka Kodaka

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

(That isn’t just Shuichi’s reading of the game, that’s what Kodaka himself said was the intended message. )

That... is not actually what he said though.

<K: That point, might be the only scene with my own thoughts in it. From my perspective, creator is an occupation where you have to make truths from lies. Not only just “Danganronpa”, but all the fiction existing in this world is a work of lies. But if you ask if everything is a lie, that’s not true. There will be truths born from fictions, and most of all, the feelings that you get from them are real.>

What he actually said was the scene meant something to him as a CREATOR. That is nothing about the 'actual message of the game', he's just referencing ''Danganronpa'' in quotes because that's... the name used in the game? That's all? It is not a statement of intent- he as I've said, explicitly said that we are not to take the protagonist as an authority on the game's message, AND that he isn't giving an authority on the message either. Moreover, he even made a distinction from the way he treated past Danganronpa, where he said that he intended for there to be more of a message to take away, if a 'little bit', so you can't even make the excuse that he's 'just making a general statement about multiple interpretations because that's what authors do'. At best his 'authorial intent' statements 'towards an answer' are inconsistent, muddy and prone to context confusion, just like 'fiction' and 'lies' can result in double meanings

Kodaka specifically says "That point, might be the only scene with my own thoughts in it." right before, what are you talking about. He is referencing something specific from V3, he is talking about him putting his own thoughts into the game. His thoughts are his intentions, that is the message he wanted to convey. Whether or not it was as a creator is irrelevant, THAT was his message.

He's saying that this was his message, and it's a message targeted towards "all the fiction existing in this world" that he chose to give via V3. It's also "the only scene with (his) own thoughts in it." He specifically says scene, he is referring to V3, he is speaking about V3's message and his intent in writing it. You have to be willingly ignorant to not see that.

#danganronpa

penguwastaken reblogged

magicalkoalaphantom

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

As I've seen you talking about how the brainwashing plot point in DR3 makes more sense than the haters want to admit, I remember that DR3 itself also completely deconstructed the haters' idea that, to put class 77-B to her cause, she used her analytic prowess to find their dark secrets, and then she manipulated and gaslighted them until they became her loyal attack dogs, with Mikan's conversion into Despair.

As we know, at the middle of Side Despair, Mikan is kidnapped by Junko and Mukuro to be used as a guinea pig for the Despair Video, and by the time she has completely turned, the rest of Class 77-B had noticed her disappearance and were very worried for her, implying that, if Junko had cared enough for Class 77-B to brainwash them in the "using her charisma" sense, she would have been stopped before she could turn them all thanks to the unturned classmates acting out in worry for their brainwashed friends.

penguwastaken answered:

I don't think Danganronpa fans realize how next to impossible the idea of Junko managing to convince 15 different high schoolers to all become despair terrorists in less than a year is. Call brainwashing silly as much as you want but it still makes infinitely more sense from both a logical and writing perspective.

penguwastaken

I don't know how you can say the brainwashing says nothing about the characters because the way they get brainwashed is by being lured to go save the person that united them, only to have their emotions shattered right before their eyes. It isn't just "brainwashing lol" and saying such shows a lack of understanding of how brainwashing in Danganronpa actually works or how it is, because it very much is tied to emotions. I wrote more about braiwnashing here and here, so go read those where I go more in depth on the actual writing of brainwashing and how it's more than just "brainwashing lol".

Also you bring up two murder methods from V3 to justify it not making sense. The whole point of V3's murder methods is that their more nonsensical and gimmicky than prior entries, so those aren't really good examples. And even then, they're still 100x more believable. Danganronpa has it's wacky moments, but they're almost all used for more comedic stuff and when they aren't, it significantly harms the tone and the viewer's ability to take it seriously. Logic is absolutely an issue, especially in a series all about logic. This isn't to say everything has to be 100% realistic, it's fiction after all, but they still need to make sense.

penguwastaken

The point of that "anime hypnosis thing" is that it amplifies feelings that aren't already there, it doesn't make you feel despair, it amplifies it.

Of course subliminal messaging that can overload emotions into breaking someone obviously isn't the most realistic thing either, but it's realistic in the context of Danganronpa's more sci-fi leaning universe. It makes sense in the context of Danganronpa. No matter how you look at it, convincing 15 different high schoolers to all become unstoppable despair terrorists in less than a year does not.

The brainwashing used on Class 77 isn't mind control, it's a vehicle to break them down and cause their emotions to overload. It is absolutely about their emotions. They quite literally do fall into despair because of the killing of Chiaki, all the brainwashing did was just amplify that despair until they gave into it.

Not only is the animation stuff integral to Danganronpa 3 (I mean the entire anime's existence is themed around animation similarly to how Danganronpa 2 is themed around being a video game), it's also been around since Danganronpa Zero and it's written and used the same way as it is in there.

penguwastaken

The idea of Junko managing to convince 15 different innocent people into becoming unstoppable despair terrorists who are willing to hack off limbs and murder their family in less than a year is a concept that feels so absurd even beyond Danganronpa. It comes across as something Yasuhiro would suggest during a Nonstop Debate.

Even if they could figure out how to make that work, it's simply not what Kodaka or the writers wanted. If Kodaka wanted a story revolving around Junko manipulating Class 77 in a year, he would have wrote one, but he didn't. I already wrote about it here, but brainwashing was always the intention ever since it was established in Danganronpa Zero, which came out before Danganronpa 2.

You're entitled to your opinion, you can dislike Danganronpa 3 and you're allowed to be disappointed in the direction it took. However, "it didn't happen the way I wanted it to" is not a criticism. Things should be judged for what they are, not for what they aren't or what you personally wanted. This is what the brainwashing is:

It is a tool introduced earlier on in the series that Danganronpa 3 used because it was a part of the series' established lore and the intended explanation given how many times the word "brainwashed" is used in Danganronpa 2.
It is introduced into the story, plays a key role in it, and is well paid off towards the end all within the 24 episode limit.
It is written in a way that is realistic in the context of the series and is written consistently.
It is integral to the anime's "anime theming" similarly to how things like the virtual world are integral to Danganronpa 2's "video game theming."
Its existence in the anime does not contradict anything in prior entries as it is a piece already established lore, read Danganronpa Zero.
It reinforces the themes that were already established by the series.
It does not erase the characters individuality or "different" viewpoints as the series makes clear with characters like Nagito, Sonia, Kazuichi, Mikan, etc., and as I already mentioned the video does not "create" despair, it amplifies the despair you are already feeling. The characters do not lose their own personal views on despair in any way and the anime never implies that. Them all getting despair from Chiaki's death does not mean that they all now share the exact same ideology.
It is not "hypnosis," it's hardly even brainwashing (during Ryota's explanation, he says it simply just uses some brainwashing techniques), all it does is amplify emotions. This is not to be confused with the separate video used on Aoi in Future Arc, I wrote about the difference in my larger brainwashing post.
It does not remove any emotion from the story, as not only does it require emotions in order to amplify them, it plays an important role in characters' arcs, especially Ryota's.
And lastly, judging by all of this, it is clear it is what Kodaka had always intended.

TL;DR, there's nothing wrong with brainwashing besides "I wanted it to happen differently."

And to be honest, that goes towards most of the criticisms towards Danganronpa 3. The anime is fine, good even. The characterization of returning characters is spot on, it brings back pre-established lore and introduces some new lore as well without contradicting it. All important characters are given depth and are explored thouroughly within the anime's 24 episode limit. It has a few flaws, just like any other entry, but it's far from bad. Its biggest problem is just that it didn't play out the way you wanted it to. That's perfectly fine, you're not obligated to like something and you're allowed to be disappointed, but that doesn't make it bad. Those are my two cents, anyway.

If you want to read about my thoughts on the anime and some of the criticisms, I'll leave a lot of my posts here. Or don't, you're not obligated to.

#danganronpa #dr #dr3 #danganronpa 3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime

penguwastaken

I think its really funny whenever people argue about how Hajime's brain surgery worked or if it was a lobotomy or not because we literally see how it happened, and the answer is he was put in a tube lol.

People always bring up that one diagram or this one single use of the phrase "lobotomized" but I think the answer is just that it's pretty clear Kodaka has no knowledge of anything medical related and just thought that a lobotomy was just another word for brain operation. At the end of the day, all DR2 said about it was that they interfered with his brain.

Also stuff like Seiko's final drug being called an antagonist when it does not function exactly like one but instead like a very simplified version of one reinforces this. Danganronpa is science fiction and Kodaka clearly isn't trying to be the most realistic here lol.

Anyways the Izuru pod is awesome.

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime #danganronpa goodbye despair #danganronpa 2 #sdr2 #dr2

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

Also Kodaka made a point to say IN THAT SOURCE no less, that he wasn't forcing a message on people and that the main character is just the POV character of the tale, that their perspective is their own and not his. You on the other hand really are just ignoring that and pushing your viewpoint to the detriment of anyone who thinks differently.

...so? He always says that about his games, that doesn't mean he himself doesn't have an idea for what the correct interpretation is. He just subscribes to the idea that you can have whatever opinion on a piece of media you want even if it's different from what he personally intended.

You can have your own interpetations on anything, but that doesn't mean the writers intended them. Kodaka is clear about what he intended, whether or not you agree, like it, or see it some other way is up to you.

#danganronpa

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

(they wrote a game without an answer, which is laughably stupid) in your opinion it's laughably stupid, in mine it's about how this situation came about in-universe

(V3 was always advertised as a reboot disconnected from the Hope’s Peak Saga) we already went through this- advertising doesn't mean shit if it doesn't reflect fully in the game and can be reasonably denied, this is such a non-argument

(then that means either your interpretation is flawed or the writing is flawed. And since it’s V3, either are equally likely) alright, so the writing is 'flawed', that doesn't mean it's literally impossible within the canon and in the future of HPA given that the memory sealing facility and the Blackout Light exist as a plausible extension of the research done overseas in dr0

(The point about V3 is that “there will be truths born from fictions, and most of all, the feelings that you get from them are real.”) if you're going to effectively take Shuichi's analysis on this as ~one true reading~ then you have to realize your inconsistency considering what he also said regarding the book being legitimate and that it's possible HPA history really existed, you can't have it both ways

Also as to that source

(What are truths in the games and what people should think from it are totally up to everyone. Of course, my own thoughts sprout while thinking up of the scenario, but I’m not planning to say that officially. If I say that, then that will become “the answer”. – By doing that, I think it gives the players the opportunity to think freely.)

I think that speaks for itself.

V3 was always meant to be a reboot, that doesn't mean nothing it's important context to what the game is and how it was written. This isn't even a lie by Kodaka made to disguise the twist, he continued to treat it as such even after the game came out.

That isn't just Shuichi's reading of the game, that's what Kodaka himself said was the intended message. Obviously he said that everything is up to interpretation, but that's because Kodaka as an author is very open to people interpreting his works however they want regardless of his intent. He's made this very clear even with entries outside of V3, that doesn't mean "every interpretation is equally correct" though.

The whole point of V3's ending is that fiction has meaning even though it's fiction, Kodaka himself agrees with this being the intent of the game, that falls apart when you say it's suddenly not fiction. Also any evidence towards it being not fiction is shaky at best and completely falls apart when you actually look at 1. what you see in the game and 2. what the author intended. Also the possibility that the fictional stories are based on real stories does not contradict this message, because exaggerated fictional retellings are still fictional.

Whether or not you choose to interpret it is the same way as the author is up to you, but that doesn't make your interpretation equally correct or any less dumb. I could say I interpret Nagito as having 6 fingers despite the series showing otherwise, but that would just be my personal interpretation at the end of the day.

#danganronpa

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

Right, if they were truly morally good people beforehand like ‘Danganronpa 3’ retconned, it would be a realistic impossibility without brainwashing, you are right.

Only that is not what ‘Danganronpa 2’ originally went for — it was that they already all had the potential for evil, like all the building blocks were there for moral flexibility from monarch to literal yakuza members who beat a girl to death with a metal baseball bat as a revenge killing, to just be given the chance to do their worst, and taking it. The foreshadowing was all there for it — it’s why the twist worked, the irony in arguably the most ‘deserving’ of ‘Danganronpa’ characters going though their own games without context:

The ‘Danganronpa Togami’ trilogy (written ahead of this) understood that — that’s why it relished in just letting the members of Ultimate Despair be themselves, doing evil — why Sonia and Kazuichi were such a delight together, the mad monarch and her weapons designer who creates everything she asks of him, the red delights of the imagination, displaying what it means to have power. They even hinted at Gundham and Nekomaru having pretty much figured out who both had become from context clues, even if they didn’t have all the details — Gundham having enough pride to admit he would have actually built his Tanaka Empire if given the opportunity to — which he was.

Them "already having the potential for evil" completely falls apart when you remember that you spend the entire game with them and they do not, in fact, "already have the potential for evil." In fact, compared to any other entry, they are by far the friendliest cast. Even the guy who beat a girl to death with a metal baseball bat did so because they killed his sister and the game establishes he doesn't even like being part of the Yakuza. And what makes that fall apart is that Mahiru intends to forgive him. Nagito literally attempts to kill himself and everyone else at the mere thought of having become an Ultimate Despair. Most of the people who kill in Danganronpa 2 do so for sympathetic or understandable reasons, and the one person who doesn't is Mikan as a Remnant (who, by the way, they describe as not even being able to hurt a fly before becoming an Ultimate Despair.)

That wasn't what Danganronpa 2 was about. Danganronpa 2, like the first game, is about how these once maybe flawed but still innocent people were driven to do things they otherwise wouldn't have if it weren't for Junko and the killing game. This has been a theme since the first game and it carries over to the second, it's very clear that that is the message Kodaka wanted to convey all along.

I wrote more about it here, but the point is that they're victims of Junko. Danganronpa 3 emphasizes that.

Also nothing in Danganronpa Togami contradicts anything. Their being themselves because being brainwashed doesn't suddenly erase who you are, Nagito shows that. All the brainwashing did was amplify feelings they already have in order to overload their emotions and make them crave despair, it didn't suddenly change who they were so obviously their behavior in Danganronpa Togami is going to reflect who they were before.

Also the first volume of Togami came out in November of 2015 and DR3 began development in around 2013, I think it goes without saying that DR3 began development first.

www.youtube.com

Regardless, the point wasn't that the class was all capable of evil before Junko got to them, it's that they, like everyone else who was used by Junko, were victims of her. Nothing in Danganronpa 3 contradicts that.

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime #danganronpa goodbye despair #danganronpa 2 #sdr2 #dr2

penguwastaken reblogged

magicalkoalaphantom

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

As I've seen you talking about how the brainwashing plot point in DR3 makes more sense than the haters want to admit, I remember that DR3 itself also completely deconstructed the haters' idea that, to put class 77-B to her cause, she used her analytic prowess to find their dark secrets, and then she manipulated and gaslighted them until they became her loyal attack dogs, with Mikan's conversion into Despair.

As we know, at the middle of Side Despair, Mikan is kidnapped by Junko and Mukuro to be used as a guinea pig for the Despair Video, and by the time she has completely turned, the rest of Class 77-B had noticed her disappearance and were very worried for her, implying that, if Junko had cared enough for Class 77-B to brainwash them in the "using her charisma" sense, she would have been stopped before she could turn them all thanks to the unturned classmates acting out in worry for their brainwashed friends.

penguwastaken answered:

I don't think Danganronpa fans realize how next to impossible the idea of Junko managing to convince 15 different high schoolers to all become despair terrorists in less than a year is. Call brainwashing silly as much as you want but it still makes infinitely more sense from both a logical and writing perspective.

penguwastaken

I don't know how you can say the brainwashing says nothing about the characters because the way they get brainwashed is by being lured to go save the person that united them, only to have their emotions shattered right before their eyes. It isn't just "brainwashing lol" and saying such shows a lack of understanding of how brainwashing in Danganronpa actually works or how it is, because it very much is tied to emotions. I wrote more about braiwnashing here and here, so go read those where I go more in depth on the actual writing of brainwashing and how it's more than just "brainwashing lol".

Also you bring up two murder methods from V3 to justify it not making sense. The whole point of V3's murder methods is that their more nonsensical and gimmicky than prior entries, so those aren't really good examples. And even then, they're still 100x more believable. Danganronpa has it's wacky moments, but they're almost all used for more comedic stuff and when they aren't, it significantly harms the tone and the viewer's ability to take it seriously. Logic is absolutely an issue, especially in a series all about logic. This isn't to say everything has to be 100% realistic, it's fiction after all, but they still need to make sense.

penguwastaken

The point of that "anime hypnosis thing" is that it amplifies feelings that aren't already there, it doesn't make you feel despair, it amplifies it.

Of course subliminal messaging that can overload emotions into breaking someone obviously isn't the most realistic thing either, but it's realistic in the context of Danganronpa's more sci-fi leaning universe. It makes sense in the context of Danganronpa. No matter how you look at it, convincing 15 different high schoolers to all become unstoppable despair terrorists in less than a year does not.

The brainwashing used on Class 77 isn't mind control, it's a vehicle to break them down and cause their emotions to overload. It is absolutely about their emotions. They quite literally do fall into despair because of the killing of Chiaki, all the brainwashing did was just amplify that despair until they gave into it.

Not only is the animation stuff integral to Danganronpa 3 (I mean the entire anime's existence is themed around animation similarly to how Danganronpa 2 is themed around being a video game), it's also been around since Danganronpa Zero and it's written and used the same way as it is in there.

#danganronpa #dr #dr3 #danganronpa 3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime

penguwastaken reblogged

magicalkoalaphantom

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

As I've seen you talking about how the brainwashing plot point in DR3 makes more sense than the haters want to admit, I remember that DR3 itself also completely deconstructed the haters' idea that, to put class 77-B to her cause, she used her analytic prowess to find their dark secrets, and then she manipulated and gaslighted them until they became her loyal attack dogs, with Mikan's conversion into Despair.

As we know, at the middle of Side Despair, Mikan is kidnapped by Junko and Mukuro to be used as a guinea pig for the Despair Video, and by the time she has completely turned, the rest of Class 77-B had noticed her disappearance and were very worried for her, implying that, if Junko had cared enough for Class 77-B to brainwash them in the "using her charisma" sense, she would have been stopped before she could turn them all thanks to the unturned classmates acting out in worry for their brainwashed friends.

penguwastaken answered:

I don't think Danganronpa fans realize how next to impossible the idea of Junko managing to convince 15 different high schoolers to all become despair terrorists in less than a year is. Call brainwashing silly as much as you want but it still makes infinitely more sense from both a logical and writing perspective.

penguwastaken

I don't know how you can say the brainwashing says nothing about the characters because the way they get brainwashed is by being lured to go save the person that united them, only to have their emotions shattered right before their eyes. It isn't just "brainwashing lol" and saying such shows a lack of understanding of how brainwashing in Danganronpa actually works or how it is, because it very much is tied to emotions. I wrote more about braiwnashing here and here, so go read those where I go more in depth on the actual writing of brainwashing and how it's more than just "brainwashing lol".

Also you bring up two murder methods from V3 to justify it not making sense. The whole point of V3's murder methods is that their more nonsensical and gimmicky than prior entries, so those aren't really good examples. And even then, they're still 100x more believable. Danganronpa has it's wacky moments, but they're almost all used for more comedic stuff and when they aren't, it significantly harms the tone and the viewer's ability to take it seriously. Logic is absolutely an issue, especially in a series all about logic. This isn't to say everything has to be 100% realistic, it's fiction after all, but they still need to make sense.

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

You still have not addressed the crux of my argument, which is that the documents were presented as accurate in universe. Again and again, regardless of contrivances and apparent impossibilities, this is literally what was established in the game. There are 'coulds' and 'maybes' about the logistics because there is already missing information regarding MAJOR things, such as the technology in the V3 academy. That has nothing to do with how '''superior''' your argument is over mine. It means that the canon wrapped up with missing pieces and is open to differing interpretations. The developers have even said this themselves- that even they don't agree with each other on the truth. Like it or not, that's kind of the entire point.

There are tons of things that are presented as "accurate" in V3 that they simultaniously make you question if they are or not. For example, Tsumugi's cospox is presented as evidence towards Danganronpa being fiction. However, cospox itself is put into question. The point of pretty much everything in Chapter 6 of V3 is that it's almost all unreliable (which is a huge issue on its own but I won't get into that).

Can't find a source on your claim about the writers, but even assuming so, that means they wrote a game without an answer, which is laughably stupid. This isn't even mentioning how V3 was always advertised as a reboot disconnected from the Hope's Peak Saga, any connections it has are shaky at best, but it was always intended to be viewed separately.

If your only way to interpret something is to ignore its glaring holes, then that means either your interpretation is flawed or the writing is flawed. And since it's V3, either are equally likely.

And to cap it off, that isn't the point of V3. The point about V3 is that "there will be truths born from fictions, and most of all, the feelings that you get from them are real." (source) In order for this to even work at all, then said fiction is required to actually be fiction. It's pretty clear Kodaka's vision when writing V3 was that the prior installments were to be viewed as fiction within the context of the game.

#danganronpa

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

As I've seen you talking about how the brainwashing plot point in DR3 makes more sense than the haters want to admit, I remember that DR3 itself also completely deconstructed the haters' idea that, to put class 77-B to her cause, she used her analytic prowess to find their dark secrets, and then she manipulated and gaslighted them until they became her loyal attack dogs, with Mikan's conversion into Despair.

As we know, at the middle of Side Despair, Mikan is kidnapped by Junko and Mukuro to be used as a guinea pig for the Despair Video, and by the time she has completely turned, the rest of Class 77-B had noticed her disappearance and were very worried for her, implying that, if Junko had cared enough for Class 77-B to brainwash them in the "using her charisma" sense, she would have been stopped before she could turn them all thanks to the unturned classmates acting out in worry for their brainwashed friends.

I don't think Danganronpa fans realize how next to impossible the idea of Junko managing to convince 15 different high schoolers to all become despair terrorists in less than a year is. Call brainwashing silly as much as you want but it still makes infinitely more sense from both a logical and writing perspective.

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

I don't get why you feel so confidently an authority against HPA possibly being a real history in V3 just because scenes were depicted on a screen (that could have been reproduced for all you know- you even said yourself it's possible it could have been based on true events). The dr0 research mentioned was a) not known about beyond the bare minimum and b) may have been completed in the survivors' lifetime even if it wasn't at present. It's fine to not like contrivances but given that the history book was presented as credible in V3 I think you're going a bit too far in denouncing it

Please explain how one is able to make a 1:1 replica of a scene that nobody has ever even seen. This scene couldn't even be extracted from Makoto's memories because it's literally from the perspective lof right in front of him. Clips from the games and anime proves that those exist as fictional media inside of the world of V3.

Once again, at most they are fictional recreations of real events, but that still means the in universe games and the games and anime are fiction in universe. If you have to resort to "coulds" and "maybes," then your argument holds less water than you think.

#danganronpa

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

Tbh, I feel like that the main reason why so many fans of Danganronpa (Especially the SDR2 fans) hate the DR3 reveal that Junko used Ryota's animation techniques to essentially overdose Class 77-B with despair as the reason how they became the Remnants of Despair is that, besides them misunderstanding how Ryota's animations work, since SDR2 came out, these fans got this headcanon that Junko was some kind of super powerful and charismatic manipulator who could turn even the strongest of minds into a mindless despair-loving slave of hers with just some well-placed words, and create an entire terrorist apocalyptic cult in three days after returning to Japan, so when DR3 told them "Actually, that would have been impossible for her to do, because even with her analytic and manipulation skills, she's still a human being", they had a hissy fit and decided to treat it as a retcon, instead of admitting that they were wrong.

Honestly yeah, pretty much.

Like I've said before, most problems people have with brainwashing literally just come down to "it didn't happen how I wanted it to," which isn't a critique.

The brainwashing doesn't even undermind Junko's charismatic or manipulative side, she still shows those traits plenty of Danganronpa 3. Hell, she literally manipulates them to the room where they'd be brainwashed.

So many of the things in Danganronpa 3 that people consider retcons aren't even retcons, it's just developments made to vague elements of the story that contradict their personal interpretation. That's not a retcon, that's just something happening that you didn't expect. Instead of admitting they were wrong, they instead claim the anime was wrong.

Nothing about the brainwashing in Danganronpa 3 is contradictory to what was said in Danganronpa 2. If you prefer the idea of Junko individually manipulating them one by one, that's perfectly fine, but at the end of the day that is and always was just an interpretation that eventually got proven wrong when we got the actual answer.

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime #danganronpa goodbye despair #danganronpa 2 #sdr2 #dr2

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

Ok so... those 'discrepencies' are pretty simple issues, tbh. One, that the events of dr2 were being watched through cameras, and camera data is something that can be saved and hijacked. Two, that survivors obviously exist and at this moment in time, memory extraction was being worked on in dr0. Three, Makoto explicitly said '...as long as they remain here' during that monologue, which is easily a circumstance subject to change, and besides, he is speaking from his heart more than an absolute fact from the narrator who knows everything. As for Dr3's events, even if they weren't watched and recorded, Makoto's memory could have been extracted in the future and that memory could be saved, not to mention a covering up can be undone from a high enough level.

Camera data of the DR2 killing game

Nothing implies any data was preserved or even existed in the first place. Just because events are being recorded live doesn't mean they're being saved or stored, and nothing in the game implies such. Considering Danganronpa 2 literally ends with them saying nobody will ever know about what happened, I think it's pretty obvious there's no archives or footage. This isn't even mentioning how Makoto intentionally kept the killing game a secret and even ends Danganronpa 2 saying they're going to cover everything up. Why would any footage exist?

And even if such footage existed, surely future foundation would have gotten it for Makoto's trial, but they didn't. Why? Because it didn't exist. They had to hold a trial specifically because they didn't know what Makoto was doing.

2. "Memory extraction"

...does not exist in Danganronpa Zero. There is no memory of memory extraction in Danganronpa Zero. The closest I could find was this quote from Yasuke.

"In the future, we might even be able to treat memories like we do data on a hard drive― creating devices to back them up or destroy select parts of them freely. Actually, there’s already research going on for that abroad. By suppressing the enzyme ‘kinase M zeta’, they were able to erase the long-term memory of lab rats."

Firstly, the thing he claims is currently being researched is erasing memories. Obviously, this is something we already know exists in Danganronpa.

Secondly, his comment about some day being able to treat memories like data is not only entirely speculatory, it's also clearly referring to the distant future. Nothing implies this technology ever existed at any point or was ever complete and it's no different from saying "one day we'll have flying cars," and even then it still doesn't make mention of extracting memories.

However, Danganronpa 3 does mention images were taken from the Remnants of Despair to create the AI Chiaki, which is an example of memory extraction, but not from Danganronpa Zero. And even then it's kept vague about how it works, but I'll give you that (though the rest of your argument falls apart later)

3. "...as long as they remain here"

Danganronpa 3 ends with the Remnants of Despair accepting the burden of despair and isolating themselves from the rest of the world. Whether or not you think they stay on Jabberwock Island or they travel the world saving people, they are in no position to ever tell anyone about the events of the killing game, especially since all of them have chosen to move forward from it.

Makoto is speaking from the heart because he knows them. They chose to move forward, and as a result the events of the killing game will forever stay in the past.

4. Makoto's memory could have been extracted in the future or the covering up could be undone

We see footage from the killing game, footage that would absolutely not exist if the events truly happened. We know for a fact that nothing in Danganronpa 3 was recorded, so that footage existing would be outright impossible and make this argument completely fall apart. It's not even footage that could have been extracted from Makoto's memory because the camera is right in front of his face and shows scenes he wasn't even a aprt of.

Even if somehow they managed to "uncover it up," whatever that means, even if they extracted everyone's memories and everyone yapped about what happeend, this footage couldn't possibly exist. Or really any of the footage shown in Danganronpa 53 trailer for that matter.

And all of that brings me back to the original two conclusions, either

It's all fiction
It's all a fictional retelling of real events

So TL;DR, it's fiction either way.

Edit: Had to fix some things because I failed to mention a few things

#danganronpa #dr #danganronpa 3 #dr3 #dr3 anime #danganronpa anime #danganronpa goodbye despair #danganronpa 2 #sdr2 #dr2 #danganronpa zero #dr0 #drv3 #danganronpa v3 #danganronpa v3 killing harmony #v3 killing harmony #drv3 killing harmony #ndrv3

penguwastaken

Anonymous asked:

Invoking 'Death of the Author': if there is anything in the game that contradicts the advertising ('HPA history file that's noted to be highly credible' vs 'authorial commentary about the universe being a separate one'), then it really does not matter, not that advertising ever superceded what's in the text to begin with. It also doesn't matter how contrived it looks, because at the end of the day how the events of HPA and the Tragedy affects the events following it is a matter for interpretation. You can take or leave it but I feel this isn't so clearly an 'alternate universe'

In order to interpret the events of the Hope's Peak Saga as actually happening in V3's universe, you'd have to completely ignore the events of previous entries. I wrote about that here.

While it is absolutely still possible Hope's Peak existed in the universe of V3, it is impossible that the events were were shown in Danganronpa 1-3 happened as they were presented. So in other words, they can't be in the same universe.

You can always interpret the Hope's Peak saga as a flawed or altered retelling of true events, but that would still make it fiction and therefore also in a separate universe.

#danganronpa #dr #drv3 killing harmony #danganronpa drv3 #drv3 #ndrv3 #ndrv3 killing harmony #danganronpa ndrv3