Grid Status’ Post

Grid Status reposted this

View profile for Max Kanter, graphic

Building GridStatus.io - Energy Data and Machine Learning

Wholesale electricity prices are -$60/MWh right now in Northern California. How close are we to a world where retail users can take advantage of negative prices by getting paid to use electricity? Are we even headed in that direction? Graph from Grid Status

  • No alternative text description for this image
Glenn T. R.

Facility energy analytics, demand side management

4mo

Midwest has run at $20 or less most of the years I've watched. IS $60 in California considered inexpensive?

Like
Reply
Jonathan Houle

Product Management @ PowerHub

4mo

The tricky part with exposing residential customers to wholesale rates is what happens when rates go near the maximum market price. As we previously saw in TX, customers were hit with bills in the hundreds or thousands of dollars and the PUCT quickly banned such plans. That said, it's possible to get best of both world. One *can* get wholesale price with a cap by paying for an "adder" to buy an option which has a trigger price at a reasonable threshold ($250, 500?). Certainly an exotic price plans but own that might make a lot more sense in a future with much more flexible demand.

Andrew Magie

Electric Demand Flexibility, Reliability, and Decarbonization at CPUC

4mo

The California PUC has a rulemaking open on a subscription-based real time location marginal price rate which would give retail customers the ability to take advantage of negative prices. Follow R.22-07-005 at the commission for more. https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cpuc-website/divisions/energy-division/documents/demand-response/demand-response-workshops/advanced-der---demand-flexibility-management/ed-white-paper---advanced-strategies-for-demand-flexibility-management.pdf

Karl Slama

Director Systems Engineering

4mo

Including the associated powerlevels and energyflows we can calculate, how much [battery]storage we need in order shift the negative prices into the evening and morningpeaks. Of course more marketparticipents help as well.

Sean M. Andrews, CEM

Executive VP @ Ammper Power | The Energy Transition is upon us. How can we help? | Energy makes the world go round. 🌎

4mo

That experiment was already tried in Texas and was shut down by the PUC when customers received energy bills for thousands of dollars. See Griddy Energy. The best you can do with residential customer is give them a fixed, tou rate to see if you can incentivize changes in behavior. Unfortunately, it’s not that easy and most residential customers would rather not think about it. Another option is to give them incentives like credits to a customer’s invoice to drive desired behavior, whether that’s decrease or increase in usage. Still a difficult task for the same reason I mentioned above. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/griddy-energy-charged-9500-power-bills-settles-with-texas/

Technically customers within CCA utility areas can be offered such rates.

Brijesh Kumar

Promoting technologies in power sector that help deliver reliable, sustainable and affordable electricity | Ex Siemens | Ex Alstom | Ex Schneider | Ex Secure Meters l PEC Chandigarh | IIMC

4mo

Paradox is, while roof top solar is generating more than needed but still you have to keep some minimum orchestrable generation online even at the cost of curtailing some RE (if you can) or export to neighbouring control areas so that grid operators are able to handle any contingency!! As for getting benefitted by negative prices, risk is both sided, exposure to high scarcity prices!! So it's risk and gain, more risk more gain, no risk no gain but do we really want retail customers to be exposed to these high risks?

This is with renewables curtailments as well..it's just renewable season. Until aggregate battery capacity surpasses the over generation and collapses the supply curve or excess energy is exported, this will continue to happen. What did virtuals look like?

Like
Reply
Kevin Soto, NCSO, MEM

Director of Control Center Operations at ACT Power Services

4mo

Give retail users the same access to the grid as other entities? No limitations from the utility company and predatory rules about net metering? Maybe one day 🧐

Jared Standiford

Lead Business Analyst - National Grid

4mo

To do that...you would have to expose your retail customers to the whims of the market. You can't get that benefit without also taking the risk. So when prices spike to $100....or more...the customer would have to pay that. We saw this in Texas during the recent extreme weather event.

See more comments

To view or add a comment, sign in

Explore topics