Well spoken.

Hell yeah.

Frankly, anyone who dismisses or is evem offended at these protests (The riots are another matter entirely), then sadly said people is a selfish individuals who are blind to the injustice that has festered on for years on end and who will never truely understand what it means to be a human being.

The riots and protests are justify, the riots would never happen (or at least i wont be so much riots) if the government would not be so aggressive towards the peaceful protesters and the other people who just were passing by.
I share your point of view about those who gets offended by something that is need it <3

When life gives you lemons...

GET MAD. >:C

WE DON'T WANT YOUR DAMN LEMONS WHAT THE HELL ARE WE MEANT TO DO WITH THESE!?

Etc.

Honestly I'm glad they're protesting, sometimes the best way to ensure lasting change is to make a scene.

Also yank a statue or two down.

As long as the change remains positive, I'm all for it. But what's happening right now is no necessarily positive change. I live about 20 min. drive from whatever the hell people are calling Capitol Hill in Seattle now, and I'm terrified to leave my apartment alone because of those thugs. And they ARE thugs. Crime rate is way up in that neighborhood of the city.

I agree there needs to be some police reform. There also needs to be some government reform to keep people from sitting in a Congressional position for 30 years and not doing anything about the problems in this great nation until someone they don't like gets elected president. That shit needs to stop just as much as police brutality needs to stop.

I'd argue that, while an interesting experiment, the CHAZ/CHOP area is distracting from the dozens and dozens of other protests across the country and around the world. That area is not the entire protest, nor should it be considered the center of it.

Also, I question the accuracy of those claims about crime rate. Chief Best did mention an increase in calls, but I take her word worth a grain of salt; she also stated that they were extorting business owners, a claim she later walked back very quietly as false, blaming the media (who claimed she gave them that information). Also the fact that she showed up on video with her badge number covered (a technique police use to prevent being held accountable for what they do to protestors) makes her less than reliable to me.

Agreed on the congressional positions, honestly we should throw everyone out of congress and white house and start over. It's all no good.

I have 0 issues with the ACTUAL protests going on around the country. The CHAZ is NOT one of those. It is a lawless neighborhood in Seattle that is full of thugs and criminals defacing public property and harming local businesses that have been there for years.

The mayor of Seattle and the governor of WA are both spinless sacks of flesh that need to be voted out, and I do hope they are when elections come back around. Same with the jokers in D.C. I do think Trump and Pence have been doing fairly well. Obviously, I don't agree with everything Trump has done, but he has done a lot to get the country back on its own feet and less dependent on other countries.

Yikes.

Okay, let me make it clear: No. No, neither of them have done anywhere NEAR a good job.

Also, I've gone through and read your tweets, I'm appalled and disgusted and I don't think I want you on my page anymore. You're free to have your own """opinions""", but calling for military violence against US citizens is beyond repugnant, among some other things.

This right here. This is disgusting. How can YOU talk down to people about not sympathizing with someone else and on the same page say this crap. If your reflex is to tell them you don't want them on your page anymore then maybe you should think about your own advice.

With an attitude like that it sounds less like you're actually trying to open dialog and reach people and more like you're just virtue signalling to your echo chamber.
~Wolve

So you think calling for military violence against U.S. citizens is an acceptable opinion to have?
"Just an opinion" does not apply to every opinion, and people are allowed to curate their own audiences. There are some things that are dealbreakers, and though it varies by person, you have to at least have SOME principles. You may notice Forest is still allowing a difference of opinion on his page vis-a-vis Tossit down below, despite a large argument on his SpottedSqueak journal.

First off, I don't thought police. If you want to change someone's mind then you have to sympathize with them first. This very submission says you shouldn't so simply dismiss what's going on. Hearing someone's opinion and labeling them as the enemy for having the wrong opinion is what lead up to what's happening. Where is YOUR heart?
~Wolve

There are people whose minds can be changed. There are people who would take years to deprogram before they're even slightly receptive. There are limited time and mental resources to do this, and do you really want to spend time arguing with someone who, for instance, says that maybe we should impose martial law to own the libs? Like, there are bad-faith actors out there who are only there to deplete your resources, not people who are open to discussion. You have to learn how to identify which is which.
Again, "just an opinion" has a limit.

That is what changing people's minds is all about, taking the time. Show them that you care about them too. Do you think anyone on the opposite side of you is going to want to listen after seeing the kind of things that people on your side say about them? If you really want people to come together it takes a whole lot more then saying, get on our side or get out.

How do you think they feel when you tell them that their opinion is problematic and that you refuse to associate with them? Do you think anyone on their side will see that and want to listen? If your answer is that you don't care then your opinions are the ones that need fixing before you even start telling someone else that they have unacceptable opinions.

Bring these people together for peace and mean it, put in the work or all you are doing is looking for an easy pat on the back.
~Wolve

Changing people's minds requires openness on both parts. You've been saying this yourself. That's why you can't change a bad-faith actor's mind whose only goal is to wear you out and eat your resources. I don't know if the OP is one of those or not, but extreme ideas like wanting a police state tend to be a red flag.

Not everyone wants peace. If they did, the riots would not have had to be a thing in the first place. I used to think like you do, but the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that "Some people just want to see the world burn" is actually correct.

Oh, no I totally believe some people just want to see the world burn. If you are trying to reach people, then openness has to start on your side. If you really want to progress then you must expend those precious resources. Do not make yourself the bad guy, if they refuse to listen then they'll make the case for you. Do it on the chance that someone will listen. If you don't, if you simply dismiss them, then you are the bad faith actor. So their's red flags, big deal. Talking needs to happen. Do you think these people are just going to disappear? You live in the same country ( assumedly ), what do you think will happen AFTER all this goes down? What IS your goal? To force them to live how you want them to or to actually make peace?

I want peace. I want both sides to care enough about each other to share their opinions and work things out. It has to start by caring and whether you like it or not, you have to show that you care first and not just for people who share your opinion but for people you don't agree with. Eventually someone will listen and that is worth it all the effort.

Lack of caring on one side is what got us here. The time for trying to care about them is over. Understanding is important, if only for "know thy enemy," but you don't have to care about them if they've made it clear they don't care about you. Again, I don't know enough about the OP to tell if he was one of them, but Forest has been involved in this long enough that I tend to trust his judgment. You can let him defend himself on that if need-be. I'm just saying that shutting down conversations is absolutely a tool that should be used. We can start caring again about the opposition after they're scared enough to listen.
But basically? You're telling someone who is actually affected by this shit that they need to follow decorum. It's kind of the last thing that matters right now. Decorum can be re-established after the smoke clears and the dust settles. And keep in mind: Minorities did not start this fight.

Shutting down conversation is only a tool for those that don't actually want peace.

No it's not. The world is complicated, and blanket statements like that are very, very rarely true.

The world IS complicated, and the shut down of dialog has shown through out history to lead to war.

The shutdown of dialogue by governments has done so. Not so much normal people, which is what this is about.
But if we're talking about things that have encouraged war, so has appeasement. That is literally why Germany did so well at the start of WWII.

Yes, I know. Godwin's Law. But it's applicable here, since we're talking war now.

No-one is obligated to talk to a brick wall. If you want to try and change their mind you're more than welcome to go to his page and fight his views there, but no-one's got infinite time and energy on their hands. You can't convince people who don't want to be convinced, and it's not Forest's job to try to convince every rediculous person who comes into the room. He'd be doing that for the rest of his life, and knowing him, frankly, he'd do a lot more good for this cause and the people he cares about by simply boosting awareness and fighting battles with more reasonable folk.

See, this is where I disagree. Discussing a disagreement over a policy or something similar is one thing. When one side is advocating for state-enforced compliance with threat of death/harm? And the other side is trying to tell you that they're tired of being targeted and harassed and victimized? That's something entirely different.

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."

I really don't. Some random guy on the internet is not going to convince anyone, and believe me, I've tried. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results", so, no, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince someone if they never intended to have a good faith discussion about things in the first place. Calling for direct physical harm and gleefully reveling in it is a sure as heck sign of them needing more help than I can give them. They'll have to find help (if they even want it) elsewhere.

Besides that, if someone comes in here and uses my comments as a platform to spew their hate and intentional falsehoods? Yeah, I'm gonna shut that down right away. I suggest you watch some of "The Alt-Right Playbook" on Youtube to see why trying to discuss things with certain types of people is a bad idea. Here, I'll link to it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li.....ANnTnzkA_HMFtQ

It's a trip mind you, and it's frustrating that most of the possible solutions are just not to engage. You've got to reach the people you can, and realize you can't reach everyone.

Also, I'm honestly questioning if the "peace" you want is for things to change for the better, or if you want the reinstatement of the easily ignored status quo, where you hear about someone being murdered by the police every few weeks, say "Oh how horrible! I hope they deserved it.", and then go on with your life. Cause buddy, that's no kind of peace.

If people cannot talk then my opinion doesn't matter.
~Wolve

We are talking, but I guess not saying the words you want me to say is invalidating your opinion somehow? If that's true then I think we're done here.

Still would recommend that video series though, it's enlightening.

Also: a 20 minute drive? Haha, what, are you in Seatac? You're not even in Seattle proper, why the heck are you scared to leave your house. XD

Because that shit is leaching out into the suburbs. It's all over the place where I'm at.

You live 20 min away, you’re nowhere near CHAZ.
Second, if all the cops have been kicked outta the CHAZ, ho w can the crime rate go up, if there’s no cops to document the crimes?

Question your priorities

i don't think people have issues sympathizing in itself....

what i feel its happening is that some people have been taken advantage by ill intended narratives and have been told that pain they are seeing or feeling is a lie and that someone want to take advantage of their good nature .

and in some other cases the chaos and pain of the situation is too overwhelming to keep facing it without people sinking into depression .

in any case, keep holding on and standing for what you know to be the right thing to do and stay safe, the world needs every soul with their heart in the right place that is out there to survive this.

I dont live in US so my view is not clear as all sources seem to lie to pain the uposed bad as posible so I try see the grey area.
But what I have seen is that US needs to increase the polise trainig time and ower all screenig.
I have nothing against positive message of the peasful marches but it seems there are extreme cases of people not enny more caring for dialogue between sides.
As outsider of politics there, I just hope the sitsuation does not escalade to rumored civil war level.

I hope this gives idea what person seeing the sitsuation from far sees it.

Due to the nature of our laws over here, screening, holding police accountable, and just plain trying to force them to wear body cams is a complicated process. Police are too large and have too much power, the amount of fighting that has to be done to hold even one of them accountable for anything is monumental. They can do whatever they want, kill with impunity, and at best receive a slap on the wrist. Billions are spent every year for the police department, while schools, community programs, and other programs combined do not receive even a portion of that.

For examples of current police brutality, here's a thread containing 567 documented cases, video evidence of violent acts committed by the police: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/s.....010738179?s=20

During protests they've gassed peaceful gatherings, acted news crews AND NURSES with "less than lethal" ammunition aimed at eye level, blinded and injured and maimed...There is no "two sides" to this. They have too much power. I agree that they lack the necessary training, but that's not going to happen if things are kept as they currently are. People should not get on the protestors cases for "not being entirely peaceful" when the police can react to any little bit of dissent to their commands with brutality and violence.

You said it!

Good shit!

I left a comment with a somewhat middle-of-the-road position (fiercely argued for, granted), but we've talked about this before and nobody's minds will be changed, so I deleted it.

Saw the comment, think you read far too much into this based on other conversations. This was more addressed to people I know, personally, who can look at all this and declare the entire movement a group of "thugs and criminals" who "need to be put down". I said nothing about defunding the police in this or the description.

And because you sounded like Governer Cuomo at the end of the comment: no, no one's "won" anything. That's an easy way to get people to stop the fight before it's complete. It's like stopping antibiotics just because you feel a bit better (which my mom has done and ended up twice as sick as she was before). More needs to be changed, but we're off to a good (-ish) start already.

And I know it won't change your mind, but for people scrolling by here's a real short video on "defunding the police", explaining things more clearly: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/s.....010738179?s=20

A change is need it. I have friends who are black and i undertand how they feel when someone who is supose to protect them equal and no mather what, try to arrest them without reason: "and expensive cellphone. OH! Its stealed!" Fuck that people.
Im not a fan of the riots but after i get shoot and my eyes get burn by tear gas just for going to my house, i was not a protester and even if i was. That protest was peacefull.

Im so glad you support what is happening, you are my favorite artist and this makes you more favorite to me

I completely agree. Keep fighting the good fight and standing up for what you believe in, we can and will improve things while looking out for each other.

There seems to be a very strong urge, at least in the U.S., to just sit in one's tower and cast judgment in defense of one's chosen tribe. A lot of the opposition to what's going on right now is coming from people who pride themselves on their apathy, mistaking it for objectivity, and scorning passion as directionless emotion.

And those who have no tribe and wish to be left alone? Those that are toiling and slaving away, who really has far more obligations and promises that consumes him or her? Any opposition going on as well is a difference in priorities and execution, you want Criminal Justice Reform? Perhaps we didn't have to lose Italia Kelly, David Dorn, Patrick Underwood to get there. If you googled these names and found a conservative news source talking in detail about these people and this is the first time you saw it, That is this "other tribe" relaying to their own echo chamber.

It's not apathy, It's not a scorn of passion, it's blatant hypocrisy on all fronts they see.

And when someone sees another waving a flag like this tends to send a mix signal to those that do want a less of a police presence. The problem I have mostly noticed, the serial gas-lighting going on by various different groups demanding a commentary one's individual liberty be damned. Then #canceling them when they are being absolutely honest in what they think.

It's not objectivity it's people covering their asses and rightfully so because they don't cater to this whatever, "this" secular dogma of their choice, and it's better for them to say nothing because out of self preservation, Most of them really want to say what they think but are afraid to being cast out of whatever cult they prescribed to.

If you "want to be left alone", why did you even comment here? If you have too many "obligations and promises" and are unable to even bring yourself to care about any of this, why are you commenting? Also, at least one of your "examples", Patrick Underwood, was murdered by a person with ties to a white supremacy group. The fact that you're throwing out names with no reference to how they died or why in the same breath you're blaming protestors and claiming it's all not worth it because of that tells me all I need to know. You don't care about these people. You care about making a point.

Say what you want if you want to. Whatever groups you're in have a right to judge you accordingly; you have freedom of speech, but not freedom from consequences. No one has to listen to you if you're spouting nonsense, or to give you a platform upon which to say it. If you speak of hate and intolerance or, in this case, apathy, why are you surprised when people respond in kind?

If you want to be left alone, so be it.

Forest already said a lot of what I would've said, but I'll just add this: If what I said doesn't apply to you, why are you getting so defensive? Like, I'm not saying it DOES apply to you, but I was just describing a large contingent of the people who have a problem with BLM and the protests going on right now, and you decided that my description fit you while not fitting you at the same time. I don't know what kind of guilty-conscience nonsense you've got going on here, but maybe don't take offense to things not aimed at you?
All that is, of course, assuming I take everything you say at face-value, which I'm willing to at least try. It'd be very easy to read more sinister beliefs into what you wrote here.

tl;dr: I wasn't talking about people who just want to be left alone, so why the butthurt?

I can't upvote replies on FA, so I'm just replying to basically say this is the best reply.

Haha, thanks.

Big money and media services are what I'd like to see held accountable. What concerns me is how effective the private sector is at causing dissent among the general public. You use Twitter to get your point across but Twitter and Facebook and the BBC and FOX and Google and Amazon and all these other "services" are precisely interested in how much people can hate each other. A local, lawful business that gets burned down in the middle of so much orchestrated histrionics is what concerns me. Richard Pryor was saying this for years.

Lately it sounds like people think they're the first ones to have an original thought. We are being shelled by corporatism and we call it capitalism because we think socialism "could work this time," like how we keep thinking the next president "could work this time." There was never a "nonprofit" administration. North. Dakota. Pipeline.

Radicalized people, whether they're from the left or from the right, are still radicalized, but what's ironic is there's nothing radical about it. It's just more of the same conditioning. What would be "radical" is if people would put down their talking points and realized they've been infantalized by flags and fear and that at the end of the day, we're a multicultural family, possibly the first of its kind. We have actively put ourselves out there as The Melting Pot. Look at our Olympic Teams. We kick ass, and I'd wager it's because of our diversity. That is American strength. I'm not judging other countries if they want to practice Nationalism, because it doesn't help and I know that people from those countries will want to come here anyway. We are immigrants and natives, every color, every gender, every religion, every orientation.

We have an ugly history and we fuck up. We consistently fail at the ideal. We think we're all kings sleeping on silk and we idolize kings of industry and governance. We fail to be American so much we're joked about constantly.

And we are poor, oppressed and tricked into fighting each other by people that are just barely clever enough to pull it off.

amen.

How you think you sound, with the comic. "The world has problems, and we need to rise up, come together and make a difference to make the world a better place!"

How you think you sound, with your comments. "You don't really understand what REAL adversity is, you're only looking at a few bad apples, or blowing things out of proportion!"

How you ACTUALLY sound with the comic: "I don't actually understand how to change people's minds, so I'm going to take the moral high ground and anyone who doesn't agree with me 100% is the moral loser by default, so I don't have to think about anything they actually say to me."

How you ACTUALLY sound, with your comments: "If you call attention to the bad apples in my group, they're not really a problem, it's the bad apples on the other group that are the REAL problem, we can't control our bad apples, but I believe you can control yours! Also, ours aren't really a problem, because they're only bad because YOURS are bad first."

People disagreeing with you doesn't make them White Supremacists by default, and it's sad that you seem to think that. There are actual problems with the Organization you support, and you're absolutely unwilling to see that. The BLM Organization never supports Black Lives ended by Non-Cops, never supports Black Women's lives ended by cops, they go out of their way to harass and target Black Cops in particular. You're conflating the movement, people who want a positive change, with an organization that just wants to get rid of all cops, just like you're conflating anyone who disagrees with the methods employed by some "Bad Apples", with those who disagree with the very premise of "Hey, maybe being Black in the U.S.A. SHOULDN'T be a crime punishable by death."

The funny thing in all this is, because I'm pointing all this out to you, you probably think that means I don't support the protests. And it's funny, because I do. The Protests. Not the riots. Not firebombing police vehicles. Not assaulting people in the streets. Not Raz, Warlord of CHAZ, driving up in his Tesla, popping open the Trunk and just handing out guns and ammunition to anyone who wants some, Live and on video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jr.....ture=emb_title)

But it doesn't really matter what I say does it? Critique of one's ideas is an attack after all, it doesn't exist to help one improve in the slightest. The sure fire way to become better is to just be told you're doing everything right 24/7, no way an artist could improve their artistry skills with critique, just like it's impossible to improve one's arguments by accepting critique of their ideas.

Nice straw-man at the end there.

Considering your 'critique' is about Forest taking some moral high ground stance and not inviting discussion, it's real cute that you fight 'fire with fire' as it were and take your own.

Forest has been nothing but respectful in his correspondance, and only blocked someone in this comment section because their own views displayed outside this section are so radically right it's rediculous. Meanwhile, their comments still stand here completely undeleted and every person who's come at him with another big brain take has been met with respect and cited sources and a meaningful attempt to have a dialogue.

...I, hmm.

You know what, I don't have to, but I'll point out some things here. Let's go line by line.

- That's not what I meant with the comic at all. In fact, this comic is aimed specifically at people like you, who are willing to throw away an entire movement because the organization is flawed, or there's been some violent aspects to it, or people were hurt during it. I never said I supported the organization, I support the movement.

- ...The heck are you talking about here? I never mentioned knowing what "REAL adversity" is. I never said the movement was perfect. I never said there wasn't problems. There is, sure, of course. But, again, you're wiping away the entire movement, hundreds of thousands of people protesting, just because of that. It's another case of "Oh, you have to protest peacefully, and in a way that affects no one, or else I refuse to listen to you, even if you have a valid complaint or grievance." Oh please. I bet you support the concept of arbitrarily decided curfews too, right? Police say you have to be in your house at 6 PM, it's 5:45 PM, those protestors deserved to be gassed and shot for disobeying orders, right? Because it should only be allowed to express your constitutional right to protest between the hours of 9 and 6, right? And in a specially designated "protest zone" that's easily ignored and dismissed.

And, also, your "bad apple" comment is ridiculous. It's the same one people use to support police (it's only a few bad apples), and if you think you're clever by flipping it on it's head to relate to the protestors, you're really not.

1) cops are (supposedly) trained specifically not to do what they're doing: abusing their power and abusing people.
2) "A few bad apples spoil the bunch". Except, in the case of police, it's not just a few bad apples. It's the system that allows those bad apples to thrive, to gain more power, to never be held accountable for their crimes, because they're the ones that catch and investigate criminals. Why would you trust someone to investigate themselves fairly? It's ridiculous how many protections police have in this country. I hope that you never have to face down an angry/scared officer with a gun who could take your life and then claim they feared for theirs.

- What are you talking about? Moral high ground? I'm pleading with people to pay attention to what's happening, and yes, I very much admit that I don't know how to change people's hearts, much less minds. If you can look at what's going on and not agree with the fact that things NEED to change, there's absolutely nothing I can say to you to change your mind.

- Again, I never said that there weren't "bad apples" (please stop using that term), my problem is with how people bring them up constantly as a reason not to listen to public outcry against police brutality. It's never "they have a good point, and I still support them as much as I can, but I don't like the BLM organization", it's always "there's these people in the protests doing things I don't like, and I will, instead of focusing on the issue the other 99,999 people are drawing attention to, I will instead focus ONLY on them, and make sure to point those BAD PEOPLE out whenever someone tries to talk about systemic racism or a system that oppresses a part of the population". Nothing in your comment at all deviates from this, and that's why it's a bad faith argument.

- I have not, in any case, called anyone a "white supremacist", much less by default. Go ahead, look through my comments, I'll wait. I have pointed out that people were killed by white supremacists, and that I don't agree with alt-right ideology (because it's historically and factually terrible). And, again, I'm supporting the movement and not the organization. Can you donate to BLM on the page I linked? Yes, but you can also support many other organizations there too. I call no attention to any specific one. To say that the BLM movement doesn't support women is nonsense, if you think that you've just not been paying attention (the org was even started by black women, but I know you hate that so ignore that I guess). And hey, if we end systemic racism in police, guess who else besides black men stop dying? Geez man, c'mon.

And "non-cops", huh? Don't come in here with that "black on black violence" thing. That's such a bad argument to try to make. It's a deflection away from the current topic about police brutality and killing of black people, and there's soooo many reasons why it happens. This sums up my feelings on that "hot take" right here: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020.....brutality.html

- Mhmm. So, you "support the protests", while coming to a submission supporting the protests, and insist on bringing up the parts of the protest you don't agree with, that I also don't agree with? Are you trying to make it seem like I support that sort of violence, despite never mentioning that I do? This is laughable, honestly. I'm not sure what your purpose here is, but it's not to have a "discussion" about...What exactly is it? Bad apples? Here's a few hundred examples of some of those! https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/s.....010738179?s=20

- Oh no, it matters what you say. I don't take it as an attack, and I'm not just outright blocking people that disagree with me. But to think that you, coming to my page to "dunk on me" with your "big brained" dissection of things is 100% correct? Nah, not in the slightest.

If anything I've said in the comments or with my comic upsets you this much? You should really do some self-reflection and evaluate why.

Firstly I'd like to say love your art Forest and am glad to see you don't mind sticking up for what you believe in, which is more then most do.
I just hope that everyone here can see that unless Truth and Love are applied to the way we think and do things NOTHING will change and we will continue to hurt and murder each other the same way it has been since man first walked the earth.

Love DEMANDS that we treat each other as we want to be treated. What that means is that the cops need to remember that like EMTs, firefighters and our brave medical techs on the front line of this covid mess, are put in place to protect the public, not to harm them, no matter what. This also means we the people need to respect and support the 100,000s of officers who protect and serve our friends and neighbor everyday form rapist,murders,drunk drivers,rioters(not protesters),ect, and that do the job that is expected of them without needless death.

Truth DEMANDS that ever fact, no matter how small or painful be brought forth.
Now for the cops this means that they MUST acknowledge that from coast to coast that many actions by police have resulted in AMERICAN CITIZENS dying without good reason and this has resulted in even more fear and distrust ,and that things need to be looked at and changed.

For the protesters this means that they must remember that great men like Martin Luther King, Mohandas Gandhi, Jesus of Nazareth ect, brought amazing change to our world WITHOUT violence. In fact these heros are a continual reminder that it is possible to resist evil and yet not resort to violence and in fact condemned people who did so. They manged this even tho they we'er literally beaten and harassed most of the way. They would not only tell the people to stop the violence, but ask the peaceful protesters to tell the anarchist to leave and to defend(peacefully) their neighbors, their homes and business. Another fact is that many people in the protest,media,etc gloss over the aggression saying things like "what do you want there angry" instead of denouncing the hate and destruction that is being displayed. There is no one voice leading this movement saying that evil must be resisted EVEN IF it comes from your own ranks(go's for the cops to).

Okay, I had to take a deep breath, because while I appreciate the support, I feel like people bring up these points far, far too often, without understanding what they're implying.

Love does demand that we treat each other that way. But that doesn't mean that you do that even as the other person continues in their wrongdoing. Everything I've ever read in scripture points to people reconciling themselves, repenting of their sins and then things are made right. The fact that you're not struck down on the spot for what wrong you do is proof of that love. But love does not keep you from the punishment of your wrongdoing as you're doing it. That wouldn't make sense.

So to imply that we need to respect the police as video after video, and case after case, and gunshot after gunshot shows that they have zero intention of changing is out of the question. I'm not saying to repay evil for evil, I'm not calling for anyone to be killed. But they need to be held accountable. They'll be treated to the same standards that any American would be, and that's the most "respect" you'll see for them, and rightly so.

Truth, as you stated, needs to be shown. There's so many places where all of this brutality and death is documented, so I won't repeat it here. But it's really, really telling how you have one sentence about the cops' part in this, but whole paragraphs on how protestors need to be held accountable. It kinda shows where your priorities lie, but that's neither here nor there.

Furthermore, to imply that we need to follow the example of these great men is admirable, you have to realize: They were ALL assassinated for what they believed in. Sniped, shot 3 times at point blank range, and crucified, in that order. So, what are you saying? That we need enough innocent, peaceful blood to lubricate the gears of justice, and that's okay? That we die and sometime after our deaths things are maybe made a bit better? At least we didn't sink to the police's level of violence! Heaven forbid we defend ourselves as they abuse their power. Heaven forbid that we resist the very people put in place to protect us, as they use that power to beat and maim and destroy without consequence.

I am not advocating for wanton violence, but to hear how police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets that blinded and maimed because someone threw a "water bottle", or threw back one of the tear gas canisters lobbed into a crowd and being charged with "assault", is beyond, beyond messed up. To hold protestors to some imaginary, high road standard without addressing the fact that, yes, as you said, they're being beaten and harrassed and incited to respond to violence with violence, is beyond messed up.

Jesus also drove the merchants out of the temple with a whip, if you've read that. And he was right to do so. I blame no one if we have to do similar in this situation.

Your right Mr. Forest I do lean more toward siding with our men and women in uniform in most situations, unless I feel their unjust. When I watched the George Floyd vid and a couple others I did try to find some reasonable explanation why officers might be in the right, but because I've trained a little bit under a martial arts master who also happens to train our local police force I can see some appalling action and inaction. One way my Sensi trained us was by having us practice chokholds on each other in order show us how dangerous they are, I think I blacked out in about thirty seconds and that was the "safe" one of the two where you choke of the blood supply. The second no one should ever use because it can break the wind pipe. Its safe to say Mr Floyd was unconscious in under a minute, when the officer should have at most been his back not his neck, so yes I'd say thos cops are guilty of ether not having the right training or murder. The same goes for a man running AWAY with a taser. Our policy is use lethal force only if you feel their an imminent threat to you or the public. So I'd say clear case of murder. These cops WILL be going to prison seeing how clear the case is no doubt. Now saying all this I'm proud of our department here and because I know many departments talk to each other to better protect the public and avoid situations like what happened to MR Floyd, so I can say that many if not most of the departments around the country are worthy of your praise not condemnation. Now I've been on the wrong side of asshole cops and it an't fun, but they don't last long around here. Usually gone in about a year whereas the nice have like thirty years on the force. Ever watch the show Blue Bloods? There is an episode where a vid was released that seemed to show a cop beating an old black man with his baton. Towards the end of show its revealed that this old guy actually had a knife and was trying to stab the cop, but it turns out the "reporter" bloger sniped out that part to create a media firestorm that put him in the line light and gain him many followers which got him lots money. The point is all thos vids and reports you sift through are most likely edited to inflame people for the posters own gain. For thos reports like Mr Floyds well its like I said, prison.

I'm so busy with work that I can't really read most of what is being talked about in detail, but I don't understand how you can see an artist basically saying they personally want positive change and equality, and reply with walls of text arguing against that.

Closing comments here, but please do some research into the police brutality being displayed across the country right now. Realize that there's reasons for people's outrage, and don't always assume that the people in power are without blame. Don't believe everything that's put out by the media too, do some fact checking.

Police lie all the time, they're not without fault. Look up the latest milkshake debacle. Don't believe everything they say without question. They control the investigative chain from top to bottom with no oversight. As one cop said, "Don't we write the reports?" in response to how to handle a situation.

Even if someone has a "criminal record", it doesn't mean they deserved to be gunned down in the street like a dog, or choked out/stepped on/beaten/do I have to keep going?

Some resources below!

An ever-expanding list of videos of police brutality (615 videos/images/stories at the time of this writing): https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/s.....432118794?s=20

A short list of victims of police brutality, and how to help, along with other resources: http://www.pb-resources.com/

Donation links and ways to help/protest peacefully: https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/

A thread on why "black on black violence" shows a complete lack of understanding of the root problem: https://twitter.com/HYENABLOOD/stat.....578459136?s=20

"US police fail to meet basic human rights standards": https://www.theguardian.com/us-news.....andards-report

Police are largely unnecessary, here's an example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti.....den-new-jersey

"Trained to be guardians, not warriors": https://twitter.com/kharypayton/sta.....60137413042176

Do your research, stay safe out there, and Black Lives Matter.