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Category Artwork (Digital) / Comics
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Gender Multiple characters
Size 905 x 1280px
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It's finally time for the auction! :D
It's finally time for the auction! :D
Start the drums!
And the winner is....................................................................................................
And the winner is....................................................................................................
Is not "Blade under mask" if you don't have a bad filling about it.
If my history is correct, Geisha's "virginity" was sold off to the highest bidder back in the day
In geisha culture...
To move from maiko (which she currently is: aka apprentice geisha) to a full fledged geisha... Someone has to become your first patron...
The person who takes your first blood/virginity.
Its a special bond, usually has a special ceremony along with it, similar to a marriage but not... that honors the occasion.
The higher the first blood bid is, the better life is for the geisha as she will be seen as more desirable and be requested more, and her house can charge more for her presence, appearances, etc...
As well as be offered more roles in dances, concerts, and such, in higher rank roles.
To move from maiko (which she currently is: aka apprentice geisha) to a full fledged geisha... Someone has to become your first patron...
The person who takes your first blood/virginity.
Its a special bond, usually has a special ceremony along with it, similar to a marriage but not... that honors the occasion.
The higher the first blood bid is, the better life is for the geisha as she will be seen as more desirable and be requested more, and her house can charge more for her presence, appearances, etc...
As well as be offered more roles in dances, concerts, and such, in higher rank roles.
Will that whole masturbating thing ruin it tho? I mean sure it ended up in a horrible nightmare/episode but still
No.
Masturbation does not take away virginity.
Never has in all of history.
On top of that, though I don't know if the comic will do this, if there is doubt of "purity" they will check the maiko to make sure she is intact.
Meaning, checking the hymen.
Masturbation doesn't break/tear the hymen is most cases.
Masturbation does not take away virginity.
Never has in all of history.
On top of that, though I don't know if the comic will do this, if there is doubt of "purity" they will check the maiko to make sure she is intact.
Meaning, checking the hymen.
Masturbation doesn't break/tear the hymen is most cases.
The hymen also doesn't actually function like that, although people from this era probably don't know anything about that.
i really liked the comic so far, but i'm highly annoyed, that you buy into the prostitution-crap. gaishas did traditionally NOT sell there virginhood.
Prior to the outlaw of prostitution in Japan in 1956, geisha and prostitutes were registered in the same districts, and some geisha (especially in smaller towns) were "double-registered", which meant they went through the same deflowering ritual that prostitutes and oiran did. Though this didn't make them any lesser artists, they practiced the arts just as well, and had very hard lives. You can read more about the life of a "double-registered" geisha in a book called "Autobiography of a Geisha" by Sayo Masuda, which was written by a real geisha, in contrary to Memoirs, which is a fictional story written by an American.
(And I'll make it clear that nowadays "double registration" does not exist anymore, and the maiko and geiko of today do not in any way engage in any form sexual activity.)
(And I'll make it clear that nowadays "double registration" does not exist anymore, and the maiko and geiko of today do not in any way engage in any form sexual activity.)
^ This...
And to their culture, the engaging of sex with another was a different matter then what we in the west see it.
I need to read the Autobiography, but Memoirs did have a few things that were true... Like the maiko to geisha event... I had to do a research paper on the topic back in college, so found out all about it.
But it is littered with fantasy, so unless you have looked into it, it can be very misleading.
How is that book btw?
And to their culture, the engaging of sex with another was a different matter then what we in the west see it.
I need to read the Autobiography, but Memoirs did have a few things that were true... Like the maiko to geisha event... I had to do a research paper on the topic back in college, so found out all about it.
But it is littered with fantasy, so unless you have looked into it, it can be very misleading.
How is that book btw?
Things were never purely black and white prior to the outlaw of prostitution. Surely, in the richer and more glamorous districts, geisha didn't need to go through this deflowering ritual (their ritual was just to cut a portion of the maiko's hair and change the color of her collar), but in smaller towns, it was necessary as a meaning or earning money to buy new kimono and accessories, for those were really expensive. I've done research on this before the comic and made choices based on the story of the comic's world, which will be revealed more in the future.
The book is good and accurate, but Mrs. Sayo's story is really sad.
The book is good and accurate, but Mrs. Sayo's story is really sad.
i don't have a problem with prostitution (as long as the laws apply, meaning for example the prostitutes working as such on their own free will), nore with sex as such. i'm absolutly sex positive. i just don't like it when historical facts get missrepresented, as is the fact, when being a geisha and being a prostitute is shown as one and the same thing. a person can be both, but a person is not a prostitute by being a geisha and being a prostitute is no necessary part of being a geisha either. and it hasn't been. that was also the reason why a lot of people got really pissed about the movie. also prostitution in japan was just as hard, dirty and often unwilling as it was in europe and who ever things different is far to romantic minded for historic truth.
Yes, I see what you mean. I can't make the characters explain everything in dialogues inside the story as it would disrupt its flow and be out of place, but I'll make sure to stablish, off-story, in the main site, that this is purely a work of fiction and should not be taken as an accurate source of information.
My point about the double registered women practicing the arts just as well, is simply that they were just as hard-working as the non double registered, if not more, exactly because of how difficult their lives were.
My point about the double registered women practicing the arts just as well, is simply that they were just as hard-working as the non double registered, if not more, exactly because of how difficult their lives were.
i didn't want to sound like i devalue the work any prostitute has ever done. this IS hard and partly horrible work, that i could never do, and it has been worse in the past. i just wanted to make clear, that it is different from being a geisha. thank you for being open for critique and thank you for future notice on this subject.
I want to complement, that this comic is just in the beginning, and while I can't reveal what will happen in the future, I can guarantee it will show that geisha and prostitutes are not the same.
As for what the author of 'Memoirs of a Geisha' was sued for, it was, in fact, not because of what he wrote, but because he violated the agreement of secrecy he had done with Mineko Iwasaki by revealing her identity, and for stating untrue information about her life during interviews to promote the book's sales.
As for what the author of 'Memoirs of a Geisha' was sued for, it was, in fact, not because of what he wrote, but because he violated the agreement of secrecy he had done with Mineko Iwasaki by revealing her identity, and for stating untrue information about her life during interviews to promote the book's sales.
I add a comment! This is the tip of the iceberg! HWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!
by the way: the maiko to geisha event was exactly what was wrong in that book (and movie) and the reason the author was sued for.
while some geishas may have worked as prostitutes, making a woman sell her virginity as a geisha mixes those two things up, as if they were one thing. the ritual up above doesn't mention she does it as a prostitute, it's just looks like it's part of being a geisha, just like it was portraited in the movie. and that is just not factual AND gives the geisha the wrong image it has in the west. i accept it as an artist's choice for a fictual world, but i would highly appreciate it, if you would at least give note to the differences your comic makes from the real life.
Because I'm not used to the way FA threads the responses, I ended up replying to the wrong comment, please consider my answer above to the current comment.
the link you shared, while being highly biased and inclomplete, yet confirms my words in it's last paragraph.
since you brought wiki into this, you may also read here, under the same term and also under geisha and prostitution in general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geish.....d_prostitution
since you brought wiki into this, you may also read here, under the same term and also under geisha and prostitution in general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geish.....d_prostitution
The last paragraph doesn't confirm what you said, because it's talking about modern iterations, while you're talking about historical ones. That said, there are discrepancies between this page and that section on the geisha page. But that's why I put a question mark there. I wasn't arguing with you.
I know what geisha are, I know they're not prostitutes. However, in the page I linked, it says about the ceremony and mentions that the taking of a geisha's virginity by the first patron was not considered an act of prostitution. You mentioned the ritual in this page doesn't mention her being a prostitute, but if the ceremony at certain points in history sold the right to a geisha's virginity but deemed it to not be prostitution, then it'd be correct for WhiteMantis to reference the ritual but not actually mention prostitution in any way. (Of course, like I said, there's discrepancies.) So the question becomes, did the maiko partake in the mizuage ritual?
Because really, you seem to be insisting this ritual did not take place at all, at least not for maiko. WhiteMantis cites what seems to be a credible source, so I'm more inclined to think they know what they're talking about here. But I'd love to see anything you can cite (not Wikipedia, obviously, as we agree that the info is rather spotty), less out of wanting you to prove your point, more-so for curiosity's sake. I've never actually seen Memoirs of a Geisha, so I don't have any preconceived notions about them, but I also don't have much knowledge outside of the basics, so.
I know what geisha are, I know they're not prostitutes. However, in the page I linked, it says about the ceremony and mentions that the taking of a geisha's virginity by the first patron was not considered an act of prostitution. You mentioned the ritual in this page doesn't mention her being a prostitute, but if the ceremony at certain points in history sold the right to a geisha's virginity but deemed it to not be prostitution, then it'd be correct for WhiteMantis to reference the ritual but not actually mention prostitution in any way. (Of course, like I said, there's discrepancies.) So the question becomes, did the maiko partake in the mizuage ritual?
Because really, you seem to be insisting this ritual did not take place at all, at least not for maiko. WhiteMantis cites what seems to be a credible source, so I'm more inclined to think they know what they're talking about here. But I'd love to see anything you can cite (not Wikipedia, obviously, as we agree that the info is rather spotty), less out of wanting you to prove your point, more-so for curiosity's sake. I've never actually seen Memoirs of a Geisha, so I don't have any preconceived notions about them, but I also don't have much knowledge outside of the basics, so.
since their is still a lot of secrecy about geisha's and their affairs we can only cite the few sources that came open about it. those are exactly those white mantis quoted, sayo masuda, who was a geisha but also a prostitute and wrote autobiography of a geisha and mineko iwasaki, who gave an interview to arthur golden, who illegally used it to write memoirs of a geisha, of which there is a movie. both were highly critizised by their community as well as by the japan media as a whole, since they seem to intermix geisha and prostution, mainly the selling of their virginity. however, while sayo did so as a prostitute, not as a geisha, iwasaki did not do so at all. the later also sued golden about showing that in the movie and won. iwasaki later wrote a book herself, "geisha, a life" in which she makes clear, that there was no selling of virginity at all for her.
as wikipedia mentions in the paragraph in geisha about mizuage, their is a wrong concept going on, about what mizuage actually was, because geishas and prostitutes are mixed up in people's mind. this also explains, why there is the difference in the explanation of mizuage in the article about geisha and the article about mizuage in "detail" (which is one of wikipedia's downsides really). one is written from a golden, european perspective (mizuage), one from an inside perspective (geisha). i really have no intention to be rude. i'm just annoyed about this missconcept still staying in place, because geishas as a whole were never involved in prostitution and by this i mean selling the actuall sexual act. it just so happens, that some geishas were also prostitutes.
to quote again from wiki's article about geisha: "The geisha who worked within the pleasure quarters were essentially imprisoned and strictly forbidden to sell sex in order to protect the business of the Oiran. While licensed courtesans existed to meet men's sexual needs, machi geisha carved out a separate niche as artists and erudite female companions.", with oiran being the kind of prostitutes, europeans to often mix up with geishas.
as wikipedia mentions in the paragraph in geisha about mizuage, their is a wrong concept going on, about what mizuage actually was, because geishas and prostitutes are mixed up in people's mind. this also explains, why there is the difference in the explanation of mizuage in the article about geisha and the article about mizuage in "detail" (which is one of wikipedia's downsides really). one is written from a golden, european perspective (mizuage), one from an inside perspective (geisha). i really have no intention to be rude. i'm just annoyed about this missconcept still staying in place, because geishas as a whole were never involved in prostitution and by this i mean selling the actuall sexual act. it just so happens, that some geishas were also prostitutes.
to quote again from wiki's article about geisha: "The geisha who worked within the pleasure quarters were essentially imprisoned and strictly forbidden to sell sex in order to protect the business of the Oiran. While licensed courtesans existed to meet men's sexual needs, machi geisha carved out a separate niche as artists and erudite female companions.", with oiran being the kind of prostitutes, europeans to often mix up with geishas.
I know that person was acting rather stubbornly to ignore Geisha history before the 1960's, and I found not worth the time to engage in discussion, so I thought if you're really interested here's a link that might prove useful! :3
http://geishaofjapan.com/history/
http://geishaofjapan.com/history/
Thank you! This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, I really appreciate it!
also, for a further inside in the discussion and viewpoints as a whole, also the possible sources, here is the background page to the article about mizuage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mizuage
while wiki may be problematic, this page usally makes it quite less so, in that you can research why what is written in the article and what is questionable content.
while wiki may be problematic, this page usally makes it quite less so, in that you can research why what is written in the article and what is questionable content.
You have a very beautiful comic. The amount of detail and design put into this is something I really admire. Keep up the great work!
I'M CALLING IT. KURO WALKS IN WITH A BOAT LOAD OF MONEY AND BUYS OUT NAE.
It feels like there's a page missing between and the last one posted... just a huge time jump without anything...
Auctioning women off... history shows this was done in asia, gaul, rome, and i think parts of europe... but i want to see the autioneers, if that spider who touched her or that stagbeetle who snuck up on her in the bath is there, i wants them DEAD!
If you see this, I'm curious about the value of money in this world. From reading above, you definitely have put a lot of time, thought, and research into the giesha (and thanks for sharing in the comments, I had no idea about the rich history of it). How much money is 50 gold coins in comparison to the cost of everything else in this era? Is that standard for a geisha? Is she being traded to a new "owner?" (I'm not sure what the term is for the maddam whose service she's in, so forgive my ignorance) or is this specifically for this right of passage into being a geisha?
It would help a bit to give us context on how much gold coins are worth in this world. Are we suppose to equate it to USD? : oc
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