It looks quiet creative and innovative from the pictures tbh, I will definately add this to my "read next" list. I used to be an artist, I'm still drawing occasionally, but not with the same passion. I remember that I used to despise AI because I refused to see the tree by the forest. After a while, I realised how much of a big help can it be to be honest. Sure, it messes up anatomy like hell, but the proportions are partially always correct. If I can't draw a bended, a kneeling or any pose, I just generating it as many times as I want and I will be like "oh, so this is how I draw the chest from that angle". So you can have very specific poses and even if the generated pose feels off, your eyes will probably see it because now you have a fully visible image of that what you want to draw, so you don't have to force the stimulation of the image in your brain. It helped me with my aphantasia too. And not to mention that I don't have to feel shameless for using reference pictures. I doubt that AI will take over stuffs, because it will be either deformed or way too "plastic...". But a human-made animation will always have it's own feeling. I just decided to use it instead of being mad, so I'm kinda curious to experience this vn.
(And I'll give it a 5☆ rating right now to have my support! ♡)
I honestly don't mind you using AI for the art, I don't think it's too reprehensible for someone just starting out, especially for one person. I will say though that there were some glaring issues with some of the animations because of that fact, the walking animation for example, one paw seemed to be digitigrad, while the other seemed to be plantigrade. A good amount of polish may be needed to really make the an animated character worth it in a visual novel. I think in some cases it may be worth it to have a static model in order to counter some of the issues that arise from AI animation. Standing still was much better, there were less glaring issues, but it could still use a little tweaking, this same feedback can also be applied to background shots as well.
As for the story, I'd have to say it's a good start. It's a little eerie, and considering the setting, that's not surprising. I'm looking forward to seeing a little more!
I'm not going to get too much into the AI discussion since I feel like my feelings on that are too complicated to address in the scope of an itch.io comment (which knowing me is probably already going to be way too long). What I will say is that you clearly put in a great deal of effort into making the models and animations for this, and while you're absolutely going to continue getting some pushback, I don't think you should stop making this or stop posting it or whatever. There seems to be a clear difference here in the use of AI in this game and just slapping a quick prompt together and generating a generic anime waifu.
While we're on the subject though, some of the visuals can be a bit rough and there are some errors. A couple that I noticed, for example:
- when Sam is sitting on the bed and his ear twitches, it looks like his face is kinda... collapsing?
- when Sam is walking after leaving the house, one of his feet is plantigrade and the other is digitigrade. In other shots, sometimes both are plantigrade and sometimes both are digitigrade.
While Naho had some really bad takes, I actually do agree with him to an extent on the animations. Having animations for Sam for much of the game is fine, but he does not need to be moving at all times. For example, you can have him be static during the meal scenes where he wouldn't be doing a ton of movement. In seated, static scenes like this, the constant movements can get a bit distracting.
I also think you should be more selective in moving the "camera" for the backgrounds/scenes. I found this very unnerving when first entering the house, but the more you use it, that effect quickly wears off. Where I think it works is as a kind of subversion of expectations for what a VN looks like. Players are typically used to static backgrounds, so having the background shift to move like a first person horror game can quickly increase the tension by taking the viewer out of their "comfort zone", so to speak. So maybe use that for particularly intense scenes rather than just like, looking at a forest.
As several others have noticed, there were lots of spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors, but it seems like you're already working on addressing that.
There is also some really stilted sentence structure going on here, and that may be a translation issue.
Ex. 1: "Sam assumed a very reluctant position of initiative."
You can make this sound much more natural by tweaking this slightly to "Sam reluctantly took the initiative." You can make this sound more natural and much more vivid by using every creative writer's favorite buzzwords, "show don't tell".
Consider something like, "Sam hesitated for a moment, taking a deep breath before firmly laying a paw on your shoulder, then stepped in front of you to knock on the door."
In this revision, we're getting across the idea you were trying to with "Sam reluctantly took the initiative" while providing more details about Sam and letting the reader see more clearly how that plays out.
Ex. 2: "It was a kind of gently prodding emotional negotiation without the expectation of a formal conclusion."
I generally try to propose rewrites when I point issues out, but this one is so esoteric that I'm not really sure where to start. I think this sentence should really just be removed, not only for lack of clarity but also as part of a rework to the intro scene.
As others have mentioned, I think we need at least some initial grounding as to who MC and Sam are before the plot really kicks off. I understand there's supposed to be an aura of mystery and that things will be revealed later, but have some dialogue between the pair as they're walking.
Is there something that predisposes MC to follow the fox from the bus station? Is he lonely? Is he depressed? Is he looking for adventure or excitement? Is he a horny gay furry? If the idea is for it to be totally mystical, A) maybe consider having it not be since grounding decisions in character is almost always more satisfying than having them happen solely for the plot; and B) convey some of that with Sam's responses. Have him be aloof, evasive, cagey, but friendly with at least a hint of charisma. Things that make MC suspicious but intrigued.
Also definitely convey VERY early on that MC is a human and that anthros are not normally present in his world. I did not realize either of these until the house and that really changes how that intro should play out. You should clarify this both for the benefit of the reader and because MC should react SOMEHOW to seeing a real world anthro for the first time.
There are a few other moments where the MC should have a much stronger reaction to what Sam is saying. For example, after Sam tells MC that he was wondering if bringing another person into the other world would make it better, the MC reacts by thinking in bold text "The fox had been lonely."
Like, THAT'S your reaction to this realization? Not that he might have selfishly brought you to this weird dimension where you might have to permanently live your life moving from safehouse to safehouse with no one but the person that brought you there?
Obviously we, the audience, and you, the author, are interested in seeing the relationship with the fox guy play out, but someone who is actually in this situation, contending with possibly never seeing anyone they've ever known again, would likely have a much more severe reaction.
This comment is already going way way way too long so one bug report and I'll get to a conclusion here. While walking after leaving the house, I got a message "Image 'closing mist' not found".
Look, at the end of the day, I think you should stick with it. I know I can be a little heavy with the red pen sometimes but the point isn't to attack you or discourage you. If I thought this game was a trash heap I wouldn't have spent the better part of an hour writing a whole-ass dissertation on my feelings about it and how to improve it. Regardless of the (hopefully interpreted as constructive as intended) criticisms that I have provided, I do legitimately want to see where this story goes and how this world develops. Best of luck to you, truly :)
I'm not going to get too much into the AI discussion since I feel like my feelings on that are too complicated to address in the scope of an itch.io comment (which knowing me is probably already going to be way too long). What I will say is that you clearly put in a great deal of effort into making the models and animations for this, and while you're absolutely going to continue getting some pushback, I don't think you should stop making this or stop posting it or whatever. There seems to be a clear difference here in the use of AI in this game and just slapping a quick prompt together and generating a generic anime waifu.
While we're on the subject though, some of the visuals can be a bit rough and there are some errors. A couple that I noticed, for example:
- when Sam is sitting on the bed and his ear twitches, it looks like his face is kinda... collapsing?
- So fun. But there are a lot of useful comments as well. I did put a lot of work into it. It will not be perfect, there's no way around that. Sam has sometimes done things that frightened me, and I will ask him to behave for future chapters. His face needs to stay intact, I very much agree.
- when Sam is walking after leaving the house, one of his feet is plantigrade and the other is digitigrade. In other shots, sometimes both are plantigrade and sometimes both are digitigrade.
- Fuel for the AI haters, I'm sure. This is a very common AI problem right now. I'm left with either reducing the animations a lot, sticking only to the very few that work well, or spending a lot of money (spoiler, I don't have a lot of money).
It's not for lack of prompting, both in Stable diffusion, and in the animation process. The process is pretty much this:
- Generate the wanted image through prompting in Stable diffusion. Typically with a ratio of 1/10 or 1/20, meaning 1 out of 10 or 20 is a useful picture.
- Import to Photoshop to correct errors, cut it out and place it on a green screen background.
- Animate it with KlingAI, which again often does not succeed.
- Import it into Premiere Pro for chroma/color keying, and add a transparency layer to it, tweaking the loop.
- Import to Visual Basic script and give it a name etc, ready for the game.
It takes time. That's completely fine, I think it mostly works.
While Naho had some really bad takes, I actually do agree with him to an extent on the animations. Having animations for Sam for much of the game is fine, but he does not need to be moving at all times. For example, you can have him be static during the meal scenes where he wouldn't be doing a ton of movement. In seated, static scenes like this, the constant movements can get a bit distracting.
- If I let him be static for certain things, I can add a LOT more variety, and produce much faster. It's a creative direction I've taken to have him be animated at all times. I want him to feel as real as possible. I understand how it might be distracting when you actually need to read the story. Feedback received.
I also think you should be more selective in moving the "camera" for the backgrounds/scenes. I found this very unnerving when first entering the house, but the more you use it, that effect quickly wears off. Where I think it works is as a kind of subversion of expectations for what a VN looks like. Players are typically used to static backgrounds, so having the background shift to move like a first person horror game can quickly increase the tension by taking the viewer out of their "comfort zone", so to speak. So maybe use that for particularly intense scenes rather than just like, looking at a forest.
- I don't want the backgrounds to move at all. That is to say, I want them to be living, but I don't want any perspective shifts at all. I currently have a ticket with KlingAI (finally, I've complained about it since mid November)
It simply happens, the AI won't listen to me, so I've had to work around it. In my opinion, if the background perspective is shifting, the characters should follow, which they don't - it would be an insane amount of work and I might break the engine.
Again, I could use static backgrounds, that's just not what I wanted. The very first scene in Chapter 2 (not released) has a static background with parts of it lightly animated. I may do this more, I may not.
As several others have noticed, there were lots of spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors, but it seems like you're already working on addressing that.
There is also some really stilted sentence structure going on here, and that may be a translation issue.
Ex. 1: .....
......"The fox had been lonely."
(shortened quote to save space)
- Yes I'm working on the writing, fixing the many mistakes, as well as changing things that are not realistic, or not good enough.
I'm going to look closer at your examples. I will work on it, but you should probably still expect some things to be a little weird going forward. It won't be perfect - hopefully, the world as a whole will be appealing.
Is there something that predisposes MC to follow the fox from the bus station? Is he lonely? Is he depressed? Is he looking for adventure or excitement? Is he a horny gay furry? If the idea is for it to be totally mystical, A) maybe consider having it not be since grounding decisions in character is almost always more satisfying than having them happen solely for the plot; and B) convey some of that with Sam's responses. Have him be aloof, evasive, cagey, but friendly with at least a hint of charisma. Things that make MC suspicious but intrigued.
Also definitely convey VERY early on that MC is a human and that anthros are not normally present in his world. I did not realize either of these until the house and that really changes how that intro should play out. You should clarify this both for the benefit of the reader and because MC should react SOMEHOW to seeing a real world anthro for the first time.
- This is definitely one of the weaker parts of the story. As I wrote in another reply, some of it is intentional. I'm trying to keep the framing of the MC and their motivations, to a minimum, so as to suit any reader. In this, I may have missed the mark, and ended up making him one-dimensional.
Of course, you would expect a reaction from the MC when he meets an actual humanoid fox, and I can understand the disappointment when there is none, or when it is not properly explored. I had reasons, but yes.
Look, at the end of the day, I think you should stick with it. I know I can be a little heavy with the red pen sometimes but the point isn't to attack you or discourage you. If I thought this game was a trash heap I wouldn't have spent the better part of an hour writing a whole-ass dissertation on my feelings about it and how to improve it. Regardless of the (hopefully interpreted as constructive as intended) criticisms that I have provided, I do legitimately want to see where this story goes and how this world develops. Best of luck to you, truly :)
- I absolutely appreciate you taking all this time, and giving me this feedback. I'm going to take it as a compliment that you found it worthy of writing a feedback comment this long. I will take it all into consideration.
Very interesting insight into the AI generation process for this game. Hopefully clarifying the effort involved will temper some of the arguments that using AI necessarily equates laziness. (probably not, but it would be nice)
I'm not going to focus too much on this because I think I, at least to some extent, made my point in the original comment, but if a static image or background works for a particular scene, just use it. I think if you get caught up in making animations for everything whether the scene needs it or not you might end up burning out. Sometimes it's okay to work smarter, not harder.
I understand what you're going for with the "blank slate protagonist" thing, and to that I have a couple comments:
1. While this concept works sometimes (Twilight is probably the most notoriously commercially successful one, but that's an... undesirable comp so let's throw out another FVN like Adastra), character motivation, reactions to scenes, and agency is still important. Maybe another way of looking at it is there's a difference between leaving things open for players to graft motivations or characteristics to and having the MC do things that practically no player would do without explanation.
2. I don't think you should necessarily be averse to providing a more concrete MC in general. Not necessarily saying you need to go into super deep detail about his background or anything, but I think people may connect more with defined protagonists than you might think. People will find similarities to latch onto, which can often be more powerful than trying to paste your personality onto a blank slate.
It's your story at the end of the day though. One of the best parts of creative writing is that there's no answer key; I think there are plenty of ways you can make this story work.
Usually, I don't play any games that contain AI images.
Still, as a beginner developer, I am looking for different kinds of games in the furry novell segment to analyze them.
This one caught my attention cause of probably one of the lowest-rating and the specific narrative way.
So I have decided to give it a shot!
I'm gonna separate my review into several segments, so here we go!
Plot and dialogues: (Spoilers alert)
The overall conception of traveling between worlds with elements of something like backdoors is kinda interesting, but idea execution could use some work.
The main problem is character interaction, sometimes it's very unnatural, especially at the start of the game.
For sample:
We met Sam for the first time on the bus station and had with him about 3 or 4 four sentences from each side.
And then we decided to go on a walk with the strange mysterious fox for 3-4 hours.
IN ALMOST ABSOLUTE SILENCE
We haven't even learned his name to this moment.
Let me be brief about what's going on next:
Okay so after several hours we arrived at a path, and Sam told us that we shouldn't go with him.
That it's dangerous and we probably will not be able to come back!
But we with no reason unlike magic affection to him still have decided to go.
I would let it go, but after several hours Chris is crying about this despite the fact he has been already aware of it.
The good part of the game, the interaction between characters becomes a bit more natural from the scene in the house since Sam reveals to us some of what's going on.
They talk a lot more, but the fox's mysterious character and his tendency to say sorry for everything are a bit annoying.
Also, there is much of Chris's thoughts, and they have a bit too much of complex words and structure, which is not how regular people speak in their head (By the way I'm not a native speaker, so can't judge for sure)
I can say that the story is boring at the start but becomes more interesting with time.
But as the start is the most important part of any story I would suggest to rewrite it to some extent.
Still a good idea and some moments!
Music:
It's good!
Especially the last track, cause it plays in the right mood and time.
The only thing I would advise is to choose tracks more accurate for moments.
Music in the house got me overwhelmed with all this noise in several minutes...
GUI:
Sorry, but it's just bad.
It's almost base GUI but with ultra-small fonts and strange scale.
Artwork?:
I'll be short and clear.
I do not appreciate this kind of stuff in any games.
It looks creepy and glitchy and has an uncanny valley effect so I dislike it, this surely will not work out for mass audience.
The only moment that I enjoyed of it's the transition of the house from autumn to winter, it was kinda cool!
That's the most of that I wanted to tell, English isn't my native so sorry for any possible misunderstood.
The main problem is character interaction, sometimes it's very unnatural, especially at the start of the game.
- I understand how it might feel unnatural. I have made several mistakes here. For one, as I described in a reply below, having the MC be without much character to them, to avoid assigning personality traits to the reader they do not feel at home in.
We met Sam for the first time on the bus station and had with him about 3 or 4 four sentences from each side.
And then we decided to go on a walk with the strange mysterious fox for 3-4 hours.
IN ALMOST ABSOLUTE SILENCE
We haven't even learned his name to this moment.
- Yeah I know. It's 'cute' but not realistic, and probably grating on the reader. I was thinking the reader might fill in the blanks and was also playing with the scenario that the MC is in shock, or not completely lucid.
Music:
It's good!
Especially the last track, cause it plays in the right mood and time.
The only thing I would advise is to choose tracks more accurate for moments.
Music in the house got me overwhelmed with all this noise in several minutes...
- That's fair, I know Harpsichord isn't for everyone. I'm practising a "less is more" approach with the music for some of the newer tracks I've been making. It's tough, but this is a VN, the music should support the narrative, not steal the focus. I get it. We'll see if I succeed. The track in the house in Chapter 1 is meant for a different place (in Chapter 3).
GUI:
Sorry, but it's just bad.
It's almost base GUI but with ultra-small fonts and strange scale.
- Yeah, I'm working on it. It should have been fixed before the first release, especially the tiny text and tiny menu buttons.
Artwork?:
I'll be short and clear.
I do not appreciate this kind of stuff in any games.
It looks creepy and glitchy and has an uncanny valley effect so I dislike it, this surely will not work out for mass audience.
The only moment that I enjoyed of it's the transition of the house from autumn to winter, it was kinda cool!
That's the most of that I wanted to tell, English isn't my native so sorry for any possible misunderstood.
- That's fair. You should have seen all the stuff I've thrown away. There will be more morphing things, and things will get stranger. There will be some weirdness. I am practically playing on it for some things. At this stage, it's impossible to make it 'perfect'.
I don't think any of the things I make will ever appeal to a mass audience. I appreciate you taking the time to check it out and give me all this valuable feedback.
I was not expecting it to be good. It had a very interesting atmosphere to it. I usually don't like linear stories that have no or minimal choices, but I really liked this (oops, only now just noticed choices won't be implemented until later chapters. I'm excited for those!). I'm not a fan of AI art, I was really iffy about checking this story out because of it. However, after reading, I feel with the setting of the world, you are using it to tell a story that can only best be told if using AI artwork. I also really liked the music! That's not AI? You did good!
There are a lot of typos though. Grammar and spelling. At least there was in the first part, where the protagonist meets Sam in his world and walks with him. Once they reached the cabin, I stopped noticing it because I was too interested in the atmosphere and setting.
I adore Sam so much. Like, he obviously feels very guilty for luring the protagonist into this strange reality, and is trying to make up for it by cooking and providing for him however way he can. It's explained in dialogue, but even without that dialogue you can tell his actions were driven by loneliness and a desire to keep a new potential friend, and the guilt of bringing him there. I'm also interested in this internal struggle he has, where he wants to leave but can't bring himself to enter these foreign worlds he encounters. I feel most of the inhabitants of this ever changing limbo probably feel the safe way.
I read the comment by Naho. Honestly, it seems to me they didn't pay attention to or read the story at all. The animations were not "distracting" either, at least not for me. Of course, lots of people have things like ADHD or other conditions that make it hard to focus, so I could see how the animations might bother some people. I would not say the animations are "overused", I feel they highlight and attribute to the feel of the setting.
It IS weird though, that you have no idea what an isekai is though LOL. Isekai is a fantasy subgenre where a character is transported (or reincarnated) into a fantasy world. The protagonist of Interloper walks down a road and enters a different reality. This, by its briefest definition, makes it an isekai. I will point out, there is more to the genre than that, as many would consider true isekai has more factors to consider that make them such. True isekai heavily involve the protagonist making use of their knowledge of their prior world, and typically the story focuses on the culture and technology of the protagonists new world. Anything less is just the isakai trope being used to jumpstart a story. Is your story an isekai? Maybe. I would argue it probably is. But only by it's most basic and simple definition, "Character is transported into a different world". There is no need to follow any of the common story formats used by the genre and trope, as your story is too different from the typical isekai to use them. Just keep doing what you are doing. It is good.
Honestly, I think the story was formatted well, the "suspension of disbelief" you mentioned, I could easily understand what was going on and felt it was done very well. Naho just has no reading comprehension (No offence Naho. But you pretty clearly let your biases cloud your thinking) The only thing I can tell you actually need to work on right now is your grammar. Many sentences read like they are missing words, and there were quite a few spelling mistakes (at least in the first part of the story). And that all would be easily fixed by downloading and using the free version of Grammarly.
It was a very interesting atmosphere to it. I usually don't like linear stories that have no or minimal choices, but I really liked this (oops, only now just noticed choices won't be implemented until later chapters. I'm excited for those!).
- Interesting. I'm glad it didn't disappoint. Yes, we'll see about that :)
I'm not a fan of AI art, I was really iffy about checking this story out because of it. However, after reading, I feel with the setting of the world, you are using it to tell a story that can only best be told if using AI artwork.
- I'm waking up to this - the fact that people are more averse to AI than I initially thought. I'm pleased you can see what I can see here - that this story is in a symbiotic relationship with AI, rather than hindered by it.
I also really liked the music! That's not AI? You did good!
- This is what I hope people will appreciate. The music, and the feelings I'm trying to create. The emotional world-building. Music is the art form I'm most at home in. If I can make someone else feel something similar to what I feel, that is my highest aspiration. Thank you :)
There are a lot of typos though. Grammar and spelling. At least there was in the first part, where the protagonist meets Sam in his world and walks with him. Once they reached the cabin, I stopped noticing it because I was too interested in the atmosphere and setting.
- I know. Far more than I thought. I'm an amateur, after all. Being from a non English-speaking country doesn't help. I have taken this to heart, and am now using Grammarly - thanks for that. It was silly of me to think It'd be fine without any form of spellcheck. (Ren Py does not have any). I am correcting the text today, and finding LOTS of typos, missing words, and learning some things about grammar. For one thing, In my language, we use commas a lot. More than in English, as it turns out.
It IS weird though, that you have no idea what an isekai is though LOL.
Isekai is a fantasy subgenre where a character is transported (or reincarnated) into a fantasy world. The protagonist of Interloper walks down a road and enters a different reality. This, by its briefest definition, makes it an isekai.
- I have always just sort of done my own thing.
This is an oversight of mine, as I have not educated myself about this concept. I've always been uninterested in trends, or in being defined by subcultures. I never really felt I fit in any of the boxes. In this case it sounds like I'm literally writing something a bit like an Isekai, while being ignorant about the concept. The thing is, I don't think it will harm the story. I am unbound by the tropes or typical story motifs, since I don't know about them. Will I be making some banal mistakes that could have been avoided if I had taken a more informed approach? Yeah probably. But I think - I hope - I'll also bring something else to the table.
Honestly, I think the story was formatted well, the "suspension of disbelief" you mentioned, I could easily understand what was going on and felt it was done very well.
- I used to write when I was a child. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I haven't written in over a decade, so it's fun to do it again. I'm glad you felt it was worth your time :)
I can't say exactly when the next chapter will be, and I will probably take a bit more time with things. Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated.
I liked it. The writing style is good, the fox is cute, and thank goodness he's not a bara muscular man, the sight of which makes me sick. IMHO. As someone already said, you need to correct the scale. Still, the thing that caught my eye the most is that the fox's head, in some moments, is disproportionate to his body, it seems too big. And the legs sometimes seem too thin. Maybe a less realistic visual style of AI model would look better, but maybe not.
The music is nice, just in the theme of the atmosphere of the game.
Special thanks for the animalistic style of the fox, (Paws, claws, etc.). Hopefully the contents of the his pants will also be different from human)
I don't understand the hatred towards AI. It's the same imaging tool as a painter's brush, and just like a brush, AI needs to be mastered to create good art or animation.
Besides, there are a lot of visual novels on this site with frankly ugly artwork, but they are praised only because they are hand drawn, it hurts me personally to look at such, I would rather look at AI art than scribbles of kindergarten level.
I wish you good luck in creating this VN, and will wait for new updates.
Btw, what kinds of anthropomorphic animal characters will be in the game? Some cute lynxes won't appear in it by any chance?)))
I'm not into those excessive muscles either :D I think it's fair if that's what the author wants to see, but I admit it also puts me off those stories. The scale - are we talking in the prologue (before they start walking together), I can certainly see that. It has been a challenge doing this with AI. Probably a lot more difficult than people think it is.
I'm currently making corrections to the writing. There are a lot of mistakes... typos spelling mistakes, grammar. I'm also considering rewriting the prologue, but this is a maybe. If I do, I will be correcting those scale issues that are present there.
Maybe a less realistic visual style of AI model would look better, but maybe not.
- It's a difficult problem. Some of these issues will be quirks that would require an amount of technical work detrimental to the process, as most of my time would be spent trying to sew together body parts in Photoshop. And honestly, if I chose that route, I'm not sure I even can.
The music is nice, just in the theme of the atmosphere of the game.
I'm glad you liked it :)
Special thanks for the animalistic style of the fox, (Paws, claws, etc.). Hopefully the contents of the his pants will also be different from human)
- Can confirm he is not like us under those skinny jeans.
I don't understand the hatred towards AI. It's the same imaging tool as a painter's brush, and just like a brush, AI needs to be mastered to create good art or animation.
- I try to understand it. My mother is a painter. It takes her weeks or sometimes months to finish a painting. I can see visual artists being disheartened by this. We simply have to maintain what value real human art has and try to view AI as human evolution, rather than competition. IMO it should not be seen as a replacement, but another genre. What I don't respect is blind anger and negativity.
I wish you good luck in creating this VN, and will wait for new updates.
Btw, what kinds of anthropomorphic animal characters will be in the game? Some cute lynxes won't appear in it by any chance?)))
- I can't say, but lynxes are very cute, I agree :) I appreciate your kind words a lot. Since releasing this, I have had a bit of a culture shock. Even to the extent that I have been undecided about whether to even continue the project here. In that case, I would just make it privately.
I think you need to smooth out the edges of this project. Make the demo of this game a little better, fix the mistakes, and then write a couple chapters of the story. After that, publish a new demo.
Regarding the story. I would advise you to write a backstory of the characters, at least the backstory of the MC at the beginning. Where he's from, who he is, where he's going, etc. At least briefly. Because right now it looks like two strangers met and went somewhere for unknown reasons, -Why? - Just because...
Let's say the protagonist can share his live story with Fox as they walk down the road. The fox might say something brief about himself in return.
From my point of view it is important that at least something about the main character is known at the beginning of the game, otherwise it feels like a gap.
You can write this VN, you did well for a start, don't give up)
I think you need to smooth out the edges of this project. Make the demo of this game a little better, fix the mistakes, and then write a couple chapters of the story. After that, publish a new demo.
- This is what I am doing atm. I am learning as I go, and trying to be as humble about the process as possible.
Regarding the story. I would advise you to write a backstory of the characters, at least the backstory of the MC at the beginning. Where he's from, who he is, where he's going, etc. At least briefly. Because right now it looks like two strangers met and went somewhere for unknown reasons, -Why? - Just because...
Let's say the protagonist can share his live story with Fox as they walk down the road. The fox might say something brief about himself in return.
From my point of view it is important that at least something about the main character is known at the beginning of the game, otherwise it feels like a gap.
- I understand this critique. It's very valid. It may seem strange, but it was actually a conscious choice. Sure, some of the dialogue simply isn't realistic enough, and I will work on that. I was working under the assumption that the MC should fit the reader, and since I don't know the reader, I cannot assume too much about them. In doing so, I swung into another cul-de-sac - having a MC who is bland and one-dimensional.
You can write this VN, you did well for a start, don't give up)
- It may be a while before the next chapter, and rework of what's already here, but I'm working on things, thank you :)
Use of ai is quite creative (at least in theory), but that's where my praise ends.
First of all, animations in this game are overused. ANimating character sprite both in and out of CGs as well as locations as if you are recording on camera in real time feel completely unnecessery and distracting.
The inteface and Ui also do not help. Everything seems smaller then in other vns for no good reason, and character sprite is haunting me somewhere from the right side at all times. It all really distracting and get in a way of experience.
And the story is weird. The characters interact with each other in extremely unnatural way and sometimes their interactions just don't make sense. Like, When fox thing lead protagonist to a house, protagonist goes on the balcony by himself and states he was living here for a long time?... And the entire premist is weird too. The point of furry isekai's (or at least the descibtion of the game makes me believe that this is na isekai) Is to transpor a protagonist from the world familiar to us to a world that doesn't. Yet here in original world seems like anthro people are commonplace, so that's automatically makes this world unfamiliar to us. And then we get transported to another which... is also unfamiliar to us...
The inteface and Ui also do not help. Everything seems smaller then in other vns for no good reason, and character sprite is haunting me somewhere from the right side at all times. It all really distracting and get in a way of experience.
I'm working on it. This is the first release, there will be jank. Renpy has this annoying setup, where you have to configure the text size for multiple platforms. I simply didn't focus my energy at this, but at the writing, the UI will change.
And it doesn't sound like the moving character thing is for you. That is fine.
First of all, animations in this game are overused. ANimating character sprite both in and out of CGs as well as locations as if you are recording on camera in real time feel completely unnecessery and distracting.
Animations in the beginning of the story are lacking atm. I made them as I went along, writing the story. I then went back and changed some things, but I see there are some.. 'bugs' I would almost say. Where the same annoying animation is looping badly, again and again. Things like these will be better in future releases.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'both'. It's either CG, or sprites (which is also CG, but yeah). The CG is occasional, the sprites are primary.
The CG in the first scene is primitive compared to what you'll see later. I'm using KlingAI, and it.. evolved while I was making the first chapter.
It takes a lot of work and money to animate this, because there are so many 'flukes' - not being able to completely control what you get. I've spent $150 on compute so far, I think. Not that that is important, I chose this and I am excited about the possibilities.
The landscape scenes are supposed to be with a static camera angle, but that very rarely succeeds, to as an example. I work with what I get.
When fox thing lead protagonist to a house, protagonist goes on the balcony by himself and states he was living here for a long time?...
No that's a misunderstanding, but I can see how that may need to be rephrased. What he's saying, is that he's lived in the general area where the beginning of the story takes place, and he believes to still be in that area - which is not the case.
"The point of furry isekai's (or at least the descibtion of the game makes me believe that this is na isekai) Is to transpor a protagonist from the world familiar to us to a world that doesn't."I'm not sure what you're talking about, I don't know what isekai means. Maybe I should, but - If it's a story format, I'd just say you've got it wrong. I'm not following any style or format, other than my own, I'm not trying to emulate anything.
Yet here in original world seems like anthro people are commonplace, so that's automatically makes this world unfamiliar to us. And then we get transported to another which... is also unfamiliar to us...
I'm working on this. This is a major "suspension of disbelief" in the story. ..And t's simply not explained in the first chapter. I understand you want some answers, and that you'd like things to feel natural in that regard. I'm working under the premise that the MC is in shock, and under a spell, perhaps of his own making, perhaps something else.
Yeah, the whole thing is just a mess.
Please understand, that this is not a finished story - this is just the first chapter - and even that, is not finished. Honestly I find your critique unreasonably harsh, and I suspect it might be a language issue for you as well. I want to listen to fair criticism, but I don't understand your hostility.
Because I'm really tired seeing more and more ignorant and illiterate "writers" trying to do something not only without understanding basic rules of storytellling, but also not even bothering do the most basic research of modern trends in it. Speaking of which:
> I don't know what isekai means
For a writer trying their hand in their own story, especially visual novel, not being aware of the most popular and well-known cultural phenomenon is so inexcusable and baffling I honestly thought you were trolling at first.
Here is my advice: educate yourself on modern fiction, and only *then* try to create something of your own.
*Because I'm really tired seeing more and more ignorant and illiterate "writers" trying to do something not only without understanding basic rules of storytellling*
Don't have to know the basic rules of storytellling to write a good and interesting story. I don't understand idiots who look more at grammar and other crap instead of the content of the game itself. Besides, every writer has their own style.
You learn from mistakes, how else can you start creating something if you don't try?
Looking at his history of making comments, Naho has a habit of being overly harsh and rude with his criticism. Just because someone has an opinion with some valid points does not mean they can be rude to writers. Criticism should be done constructively to help writers, not tear them down.
I find the problem with AI art is it being disingenuous and scummy, but you give a good reasonable explanation for its use and you aren't doing this just for profit.
Maybe eventually you would change to commissioned art for the game but if you both cant afford it or make it yourself i don't find any problems.
I would say I'm making a visual novel because I'm fascinated with AI and where it can go, rather than that I want to write a visual novel, and just happened to settle on AI for the visuals. ..So commissioning art is not very relevant in this case. Even if there are some amazingly talented people out there, it would be impossible to create the animations. If I were to commission art and then animate with AI, I would still need 100's of pictures.
I have some scary stuff planned, and some very strange things already made. If people like this story, I will gladly publish another chapter. I'm a little put down right now, tbh. I'm doing this project to escape some struggles in life that are not minor.. so I guess I can't deal with too much negativity.
I don’t mind ai art but it’s definitely stigmatized quite a lot in the current environment. Hopefully you are prepared to deal with inevitable backlash
I would just say that it would be my hope that people can see the potential for weird worlds previously impossible, instead of focusing on what problems AI create. I can only try to share my vision.. people usually don't understand what I have in my head before things are more complete.
An excellent start. I love the animation style even if it is a work in progress. Story is engaging and well written. Looking forward to how this might develop in the future.
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It looks quiet creative and innovative from the pictures tbh, I will definately add this to my "read next" list. I used to be an artist, I'm still drawing occasionally, but not with the same passion. I remember that I used to despise AI because I refused to see the tree by the forest. After a while, I realised how much of a big help can it be to be honest. Sure, it messes up anatomy like hell, but the proportions are partially always correct. If I can't draw a bended, a kneeling or any pose, I just generating it as many times as I want and I will be like "oh, so this is how I draw the chest from that angle". So you can have very specific poses and even if the generated pose feels off, your eyes will probably see it because now you have a fully visible image of that what you want to draw, so you don't have to force the stimulation of the image in your brain. It helped me with my aphantasia too. And not to mention that I don't have to feel shameless for using reference pictures. I doubt that AI will take over stuffs, because it will be either deformed or way too "plastic...". But a human-made animation will always have it's own feeling. I just decided to use it instead of being mad, so I'm kinda curious to experience this vn.
(And I'll give it a 5☆ rating right now to have my support! ♡)
I honestly don't mind you using AI for the art, I don't think it's too reprehensible for someone just starting out, especially for one person. I will say though that there were some glaring issues with some of the animations because of that fact, the walking animation for example, one paw seemed to be digitigrad, while the other seemed to be plantigrade. A good amount of polish may be needed to really make the an animated character worth it in a visual novel. I think in some cases it may be worth it to have a static model in order to counter some of the issues that arise from AI animation. Standing still was much better, there were less glaring issues, but it could still use a little tweaking, this same feedback can also be applied to background shots as well.
As for the story, I'd have to say it's a good start. It's a little eerie, and considering the setting, that's not surprising. I'm looking forward to seeing a little more!
Well this is a fun comment section.
I'm not going to get too much into the AI discussion since I feel like my feelings on that are too complicated to address in the scope of an itch.io comment (which knowing me is probably already going to be way too long). What I will say is that you clearly put in a great deal of effort into making the models and animations for this, and while you're absolutely going to continue getting some pushback, I don't think you should stop making this or stop posting it or whatever. There seems to be a clear difference here in the use of AI in this game and just slapping a quick prompt together and generating a generic anime waifu.
While we're on the subject though, some of the visuals can be a bit rough and there are some errors. A couple that I noticed, for example:
- when Sam is sitting on the bed and his ear twitches, it looks like his face is kinda... collapsing?
- when Sam is walking after leaving the house, one of his feet is plantigrade and the other is digitigrade. In other shots, sometimes both are plantigrade and sometimes both are digitigrade.
While Naho had some really bad takes, I actually do agree with him to an extent on the animations. Having animations for Sam for much of the game is fine, but he does not need to be moving at all times. For example, you can have him be static during the meal scenes where he wouldn't be doing a ton of movement. In seated, static scenes like this, the constant movements can get a bit distracting.
I also think you should be more selective in moving the "camera" for the backgrounds/scenes. I found this very unnerving when first entering the house, but the more you use it, that effect quickly wears off. Where I think it works is as a kind of subversion of expectations for what a VN looks like. Players are typically used to static backgrounds, so having the background shift to move like a first person horror game can quickly increase the tension by taking the viewer out of their "comfort zone", so to speak. So maybe use that for particularly intense scenes rather than just like, looking at a forest.
As several others have noticed, there were lots of spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors, but it seems like you're already working on addressing that.
There is also some really stilted sentence structure going on here, and that may be a translation issue.
Ex. 1: "Sam assumed a very reluctant position of initiative."
You can make this sound much more natural by tweaking this slightly to "Sam reluctantly took the initiative." You can make this sound more natural and much more vivid by using every creative writer's favorite buzzwords, "show don't tell".
Consider something like, "Sam hesitated for a moment, taking a deep breath before firmly laying a paw on your shoulder, then stepped in front of you to knock on the door."
In this revision, we're getting across the idea you were trying to with "Sam reluctantly took the initiative" while providing more details about Sam and letting the reader see more clearly how that plays out.
Ex. 2: "It was a kind of gently prodding emotional negotiation without the expectation of a formal conclusion."
I generally try to propose rewrites when I point issues out, but this one is so esoteric that I'm not really sure where to start. I think this sentence should really just be removed, not only for lack of clarity but also as part of a rework to the intro scene.
As others have mentioned, I think we need at least some initial grounding as to who MC and Sam are before the plot really kicks off. I understand there's supposed to be an aura of mystery and that things will be revealed later, but have some dialogue between the pair as they're walking.
Is there something that predisposes MC to follow the fox from the bus station? Is he lonely? Is he depressed? Is he looking for adventure or excitement? Is he a horny gay furry? If the idea is for it to be totally mystical, A) maybe consider having it not be since grounding decisions in character is almost always more satisfying than having them happen solely for the plot; and B) convey some of that with Sam's responses. Have him be aloof, evasive, cagey, but friendly with at least a hint of charisma. Things that make MC suspicious but intrigued.
Also definitely convey VERY early on that MC is a human and that anthros are not normally present in his world. I did not realize either of these until the house and that really changes how that intro should play out. You should clarify this both for the benefit of the reader and because MC should react SOMEHOW to seeing a real world anthro for the first time.
There are a few other moments where the MC should have a much stronger reaction to what Sam is saying. For example, after Sam tells MC that he was wondering if bringing another person into the other world would make it better, the MC reacts by thinking in bold text "The fox had been lonely."
Like, THAT'S your reaction to this realization? Not that he might have selfishly brought you to this weird dimension where you might have to permanently live your life moving from safehouse to safehouse with no one but the person that brought you there?
Obviously we, the audience, and you, the author, are interested in seeing the relationship with the fox guy play out, but someone who is actually in this situation, contending with possibly never seeing anyone they've ever known again, would likely have a much more severe reaction.
This comment is already going way way way too long so one bug report and I'll get to a conclusion here. While walking after leaving the house, I got a message "Image 'closing mist' not found".
Look, at the end of the day, I think you should stick with it. I know I can be a little heavy with the red pen sometimes but the point isn't to attack you or discourage you. If I thought this game was a trash heap I wouldn't have spent the better part of an hour writing a whole-ass dissertation on my feelings about it and how to improve it. Regardless of the (hopefully interpreted as constructive as intended) criticisms that I have provided, I do legitimately want to see where this story goes and how this world develops. Best of luck to you, truly :)
Well this is a fun comment section.
I'm not going to get too much into the AI discussion since I feel like my feelings on that are too complicated to address in the scope of an itch.io comment (which knowing me is probably already going to be way too long). What I will say is that you clearly put in a great deal of effort into making the models and animations for this, and while you're absolutely going to continue getting some pushback, I don't think you should stop making this or stop posting it or whatever. There seems to be a clear difference here in the use of AI in this game and just slapping a quick prompt together and generating a generic anime waifu.
While we're on the subject though, some of the visuals can be a bit rough and there are some errors. A couple that I noticed, for example:
- when Sam is sitting on the bed and his ear twitches, it looks like his face is kinda... collapsing?
- So fun. But there are a lot of useful comments as well. I did put a lot of work into it. It will not be perfect, there's no way around that. Sam has sometimes done things that frightened me, and I will ask him to behave for future chapters. His face needs to stay intact, I very much agree.
- when Sam is walking after leaving the house, one of his feet is plantigrade and the other is digitigrade. In other shots, sometimes both are plantigrade and sometimes both are digitigrade.
- Fuel for the AI haters, I'm sure. This is a very common AI problem right now. I'm left with either reducing the animations a lot, sticking only to the very few that work well, or spending a lot of money (spoiler, I don't have a lot of money).
It's not for lack of prompting, both in Stable diffusion, and in the animation process. The process is pretty much this:
- Generate the wanted image through prompting in Stable diffusion. Typically with a ratio of 1/10 or 1/20, meaning 1 out of 10 or 20 is a useful picture.
- Import to Photoshop to correct errors, cut it out and place it on a green screen background.
- Animate it with KlingAI, which again often does not succeed.
- Import it into Premiere Pro for chroma/color keying, and add a transparency layer to it, tweaking the loop.
- Import to Visual Basic script and give it a name etc, ready for the game.
It takes time. That's completely fine, I think it mostly works.
While Naho had some really bad takes, I actually do agree with him to an extent on the animations. Having animations for Sam for much of the game is fine, but he does not need to be moving at all times. For example, you can have him be static during the meal scenes where he wouldn't be doing a ton of movement. In seated, static scenes like this, the constant movements can get a bit distracting.
- If I let him be static for certain things, I can add a LOT more variety, and produce much faster. It's a creative direction I've taken to have him be animated at all times. I want him to feel as real as possible. I understand how it might be distracting when you actually need to read the story. Feedback received.I also think you should be more selective in moving the "camera" for the backgrounds/scenes. I found this very unnerving when first entering the house, but the more you use it, that effect quickly wears off. Where I think it works is as a kind of subversion of expectations for what a VN looks like. Players are typically used to static backgrounds, so having the background shift to move like a first person horror game can quickly increase the tension by taking the viewer out of their "comfort zone", so to speak. So maybe use that for particularly intense scenes rather than just like, looking at a forest.
- I don't want the backgrounds to move at all. That is to say, I want them to be living, but I don't want any perspective shifts at all. I currently have a ticket with KlingAI (finally, I've complained about it since mid November)It simply happens, the AI won't listen to me, so I've had to work around it. In my opinion, if the background perspective is shifting, the characters should follow, which they don't - it would be an insane amount of work and I might break the engine.
Again, I could use static backgrounds, that's just not what I wanted. The very first scene in Chapter 2 (not released) has a static background with parts of it lightly animated. I may do this more, I may not.
As several others have noticed, there were lots of spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors, but it seems like you're already working on addressing that.
There is also some really stilted sentence structure going on here, and that may be a translation issue.
Ex. 1: .....
......"The fox had been lonely."
(shortened quote to save space)
- Yes I'm working on the writing, fixing the many mistakes, as well as changing things that are not realistic, or not good enough.
I'm going to look closer at your examples. I will work on it, but you should probably still expect some things to be a little weird going forward. It won't be perfect - hopefully, the world as a whole will be appealing.
Is there something that predisposes MC to follow the fox from the bus station? Is he lonely? Is he depressed? Is he looking for adventure or excitement? Is he a horny gay furry? If the idea is for it to be totally mystical, A) maybe consider having it not be since grounding decisions in character is almost always more satisfying than having them happen solely for the plot; and B) convey some of that with Sam's responses. Have him be aloof, evasive, cagey, but friendly with at least a hint of charisma. Things that make MC suspicious but intrigued.
Also definitely convey VERY early on that MC is a human and that anthros are not normally present in his world. I did not realize either of these until the house and that really changes how that intro should play out. You should clarify this both for the benefit of the reader and because MC should react SOMEHOW to seeing a real world anthro for the first time.
- This is definitely one of the weaker parts of the story. As I wrote in another reply, some of it is intentional. I'm trying to keep the framing of the MC and their motivations, to a minimum, so as to suit any reader. In this, I may have missed the mark, and ended up making him one-dimensional.
Of course, you would expect a reaction from the MC when he meets an actual humanoid fox, and I can understand the disappointment when there is none, or when it is not properly explored. I had reasons, but yes.
Look, at the end of the day, I think you should stick with it. I know I can be a little heavy with the red pen sometimes but the point isn't to attack you or discourage you. If I thought this game was a trash heap I wouldn't have spent the better part of an hour writing a whole-ass dissertation on my feelings about it and how to improve it. Regardless of the (hopefully interpreted as constructive as intended) criticisms that I have provided, I do legitimately want to see where this story goes and how this world develops. Best of luck to you, truly :)
- I absolutely appreciate you taking all this time, and giving me this feedback. I'm going to take it as a compliment that you found it worthy of writing a feedback comment this long. I will take it all into consideration.Very interesting insight into the AI generation process for this game. Hopefully clarifying the effort involved will temper some of the arguments that using AI necessarily equates laziness. (probably not, but it would be nice)
I'm not going to focus too much on this because I think I, at least to some extent, made my point in the original comment, but if a static image or background works for a particular scene, just use it. I think if you get caught up in making animations for everything whether the scene needs it or not you might end up burning out. Sometimes it's okay to work smarter, not harder.
I understand what you're going for with the "blank slate protagonist" thing, and to that I have a couple comments:
1. While this concept works sometimes (Twilight is probably the most notoriously commercially successful one, but that's an... undesirable comp so let's throw out another FVN like Adastra), character motivation, reactions to scenes, and agency is still important. Maybe another way of looking at it is there's a difference between leaving things open for players to graft motivations or characteristics to and having the MC do things that practically no player would do without explanation.
2. I don't think you should necessarily be averse to providing a more concrete MC in general. Not necessarily saying you need to go into super deep detail about his background or anything, but I think people may connect more with defined protagonists than you might think. People will find similarities to latch onto, which can often be more powerful than trying to paste your personality onto a blank slate.
It's your story at the end of the day though. One of the best parts of creative writing is that there's no answer key; I think there are plenty of ways you can make this story work.
It actually wasn't that bad.
Usually, I don't play any games that contain AI images.
Still, as a beginner developer, I am looking for different kinds of games in the furry novell segment to analyze them.
This one caught my attention cause of probably one of the lowest-rating and the specific narrative way.
So I have decided to give it a shot!
I'm gonna separate my review into several segments, so here we go!
Plot and dialogues: (Spoilers alert)
The overall conception of traveling between worlds with elements of something like backdoors is kinda interesting, but idea execution could use some work.
The main problem is character interaction, sometimes it's very unnatural, especially at the start of the game.
For sample:
We met Sam for the first time on the bus station and had with him about 3 or 4 four sentences from each side.
And then we decided to go on a walk with the strange mysterious fox for 3-4 hours.
IN ALMOST ABSOLUTE SILENCE
We haven't even learned his name to this moment.
Let me be brief about what's going on next:
Okay so after several hours we arrived at a path, and Sam told us that we shouldn't go with him.
That it's dangerous and we probably will not be able to come back!
But we with no reason unlike magic affection to him still have decided to go.
I would let it go, but after several hours Chris is crying about this despite the fact he has been already aware of it.
The good part of the game, the interaction between characters becomes a bit more natural from the scene in the house since Sam reveals to us some of what's going on.
They talk a lot more, but the fox's mysterious character and his tendency to say sorry for everything are a bit annoying.
Also, there is much of Chris's thoughts, and they have a bit too much of complex words and structure, which is not how regular people speak in their head (By the way I'm not a native speaker, so can't judge for sure)
I can say that the story is boring at the start but becomes more interesting with time.
But as the start is the most important part of any story I would suggest to rewrite it to some extent.
Still a good idea and some moments!
Music:
It's good!
Especially the last track, cause it plays in the right mood and time.
The only thing I would advise is to choose tracks more accurate for moments.
Music in the house got me overwhelmed with all this noise in several minutes...
GUI:
Sorry, but it's just bad.
It's almost base GUI but with ultra-small fonts and strange scale.
Artwork?:
I'll be short and clear.
I do not appreciate this kind of stuff in any games.
It looks creepy and glitchy and has an uncanny valley effect so I dislike it, this surely will not work out for mass audience.
The only moment that I enjoyed of it's the transition of the house from autumn to winter, it was kinda cool!
That's the most of that I wanted to tell, English isn't my native so sorry for any possible misunderstood.
Wish you luck with the project!
- I understand how it might feel unnatural. I have made several mistakes here. For one, as I described in a reply below, having the MC be without much character to them, to avoid assigning personality traits to the reader they do not feel at home in.
We met Sam for the first time on the bus station and had with him about 3 or 4 four sentences from each side.
And then we decided to go on a walk with the strange mysterious fox for 3-4 hours.
IN ALMOST ABSOLUTE SILENCE
We haven't even learned his name to this moment.
- Yeah I know. It's 'cute' but not realistic, and probably grating on the reader. I was thinking the reader might fill in the blanks and was also playing with the scenario that the MC is in shock, or not completely lucid.
Music:
It's good!
Especially the last track, cause it plays in the right mood and time.
The only thing I would advise is to choose tracks more accurate for moments.
Music in the house got me overwhelmed with all this noise in several minutes...
- That's fair, I know Harpsichord isn't for everyone. I'm practising a "less is more" approach with the music for some of the newer tracks I've been making. It's tough, but this is a VN, the music should support the narrative, not steal the focus. I get it. We'll see if I succeed. The track in the house in Chapter 1 is meant for a different place (in Chapter 3).
GUI:
Sorry, but it's just bad.
It's almost base GUI but with ultra-small fonts and strange scale.
- Yeah, I'm working on it. It should have been fixed before the first release, especially the tiny text and tiny menu buttons.
Artwork?:
I'll be short and clear.
I do not appreciate this kind of stuff in any games.
It looks creepy and glitchy and has an uncanny valley effect so I dislike it, this surely will not work out for mass audience.
The only moment that I enjoyed of it's the transition of the house from autumn to winter, it was kinda cool!
That's the most of that I wanted to tell, English isn't my native so sorry for any possible misunderstood.
- That's fair. You should have seen all the stuff I've thrown away. There will be more morphing things, and things will get stranger. There will be some weirdness. I am practically playing on it for some things. At this stage, it's impossible to make it 'perfect'.
I don't think any of the things I make will ever appeal to a mass audience. I appreciate you taking the time to check it out and give me all this valuable feedback.
Wish you luck with the project!
Thank you!
I was not expecting it to be good.
It had a very interesting atmosphere to it. I usually don't like linear stories that have no or minimal choices, but I really liked this (oops, only now just noticed choices won't be implemented until later chapters. I'm excited for those!).
I'm not a fan of AI art, I was really iffy about checking this story out because of it. However, after reading, I feel with the setting of the world, you are using it to tell a story that can only best be told if using AI artwork.
I also really liked the music! That's not AI? You did good!
There are a lot of typos though. Grammar and spelling. At least there was in the first part, where the protagonist meets Sam in his world and walks with him. Once they reached the cabin, I stopped noticing it because I was too interested in the atmosphere and setting.
I adore Sam so much. Like, he obviously feels very guilty for luring the protagonist into this strange reality, and is trying to make up for it by cooking and providing for him however way he can. It's explained in dialogue, but even without that dialogue you can tell his actions were driven by loneliness and a desire to keep a new potential friend, and the guilt of bringing him there. I'm also interested in this internal struggle he has, where he wants to leave but can't bring himself to enter these foreign worlds he encounters. I feel most of the inhabitants of this ever changing limbo probably feel the safe way.
I read the comment by Naho. Honestly, it seems to me they didn't pay attention to or read the story at all. The animations were not "distracting" either, at least not for me. Of course, lots of people have things like ADHD or other conditions that make it hard to focus, so I could see how the animations might bother some people. I would not say the animations are "overused", I feel they highlight and attribute to the feel of the setting.
It IS weird though, that you have no idea what an isekai is though LOL.
Isekai is a fantasy subgenre where a character is transported (or reincarnated) into a fantasy world. The protagonist of Interloper walks down a road and enters a different reality. This, by its briefest definition, makes it an isekai.
I will point out, there is more to the genre than that, as many would consider true isekai has more factors to consider that make them such. True isekai heavily involve the protagonist making use of their knowledge of their prior world, and typically the story focuses on the culture and technology of the protagonists new world. Anything less is just the isakai trope being used to jumpstart a story.
Is your story an isekai? Maybe. I would argue it probably is. But only by it's most basic and simple definition, "Character is transported into a different world". There is no need to follow any of the common story formats used by the genre and trope, as your story is too different from the typical isekai to use them.
Just keep doing what you are doing. It is good.
Honestly, I think the story was formatted well, the "suspension of disbelief" you mentioned, I could easily understand what was going on and felt it was done very well. Naho just has no reading comprehension (No offence Naho. But you pretty clearly let your biases cloud your thinking) The only thing I can tell you actually need to work on right now is your grammar. Many sentences read like they are missing words, and there were quite a few spelling mistakes (at least in the first part of the story). And that all would be easily fixed by downloading and using the free version of Grammarly.
I will be waiting for the next chapter.
I was not expecting it to be good.
It was a very interesting atmosphere to it. I usually don't like linear stories that have no or minimal choices, but I really liked this (oops, only now just noticed choices won't be implemented until later chapters. I'm excited for those!).
- Interesting. I'm glad it didn't disappoint. Yes, we'll see about that :)
I'm not a fan of AI art, I was really iffy about checking this story out because of it. However, after reading, I feel with the setting of the world, you are using it to tell a story that can only best be told if using AI artwork.
- I'm waking up to this - the fact that people are more averse to AI than I initially thought. I'm pleased you can see what I can see here - that this story is in a symbiotic relationship with AI, rather than hindered by it.
I also really liked the music! That's not AI? You did good!- This is what I hope people will appreciate. The music, and the feelings I'm trying to create. The emotional world-building. Music is the art form I'm most at home in. If I can make someone else feel something similar to what I feel, that is my highest aspiration. Thank you :)
There are a lot of typos though. Grammar and spelling. At least there was in the first part, where the protagonist meets Sam in his world and walks with him. Once they reached the cabin, I stopped noticing it because I was too interested in the atmosphere and setting.
- I know. Far more than I thought. I'm an amateur, after all. Being from a non English-speaking country doesn't help. I have taken this to heart, and am now using Grammarly - thanks for that. It was silly of me to think It'd be fine without any form of spellcheck. (Ren Py does not have any). I am correcting the text today, and finding LOTS of typos, missing words, and learning some things about grammar. For one thing, In my language, we use commas a lot. More than in English, as it turns out.It IS weird though, that you have no idea what an isekai is though LOL.
Isekai is a fantasy subgenre where a character is transported (or reincarnated) into a fantasy world. The protagonist of Interloper walks down a road and enters a different reality. This, by its briefest definition, makes it an isekai.
- I have always just sort of done my own thing.
This is an oversight of mine, as I have not educated myself about this concept. I've always been uninterested in trends, or in being defined by subcultures. I never really felt I fit in any of the boxes. In this case it sounds like I'm literally writing something a bit like an Isekai, while being ignorant about the concept. The thing is, I don't think it will harm the story. I am unbound by the tropes or typical story motifs, since I don't know about them. Will I be making some banal mistakes that could have been avoided if I had taken a more informed approach? Yeah probably. But I think - I hope - I'll also bring something else to the table.
Honestly, I think the story was formatted well, the "suspension of disbelief" you mentioned, I could easily understand what was going on and felt it was done very well.
- I used to write when I was a child. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I haven't written in over a decade, so it's fun to do it again. I'm glad you felt it was worth your time :)
I can't say exactly when the next chapter will be, and I will probably take a bit more time with things. Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated.
I liked it. The writing style is good, the fox is cute, and thank goodness he's not a bara muscular man, the sight of which makes me sick. IMHO. As someone already said, you need to correct the scale. Still, the thing that caught my eye the most is that the fox's head, in some moments, is disproportionate to his body, it seems too big. And the legs sometimes seem too thin. Maybe a less realistic visual style of AI model would look better, but maybe not.
The music is nice, just in the theme of the atmosphere of the game.
Special thanks for the animalistic style of the fox, (Paws, claws, etc.). Hopefully the contents of the his pants will also be different from human)
I don't understand the hatred towards AI. It's the same imaging tool as a painter's brush, and just like a brush, AI needs to be mastered to create good art or animation.
Besides, there are a lot of visual novels on this site with frankly ugly artwork, but they are praised only because they are hand drawn, it hurts me personally to look at such, I would rather look at AI art than scribbles of kindergarten level.
I wish you good luck in creating this VN, and will wait for new updates.
Btw, what kinds of anthropomorphic animal characters will be in the game? Some cute lynxes won't appear in it by any chance?)))
I'm not into those excessive muscles either :D I think it's fair if that's what the author wants to see, but I admit it also puts me off those stories. The scale - are we talking in the prologue (before they start walking together), I can certainly see that. It has been a challenge doing this with AI. Probably a lot more difficult than people think it is.
I'm currently making corrections to the writing. There are a lot of mistakes... typos spelling mistakes, grammar. I'm also considering rewriting the prologue, but this is a maybe. If I do, I will be correcting those scale issues that are present there.
Maybe a less realistic visual style of AI model would look better, but maybe not.
- It's a difficult problem. Some of these issues will be quirks that would require an amount of technical work detrimental to the process, as most of my time would be spent trying to sew together body parts in Photoshop. And honestly, if I chose that route, I'm not sure I even can.
The music is nice, just in the theme of the atmosphere of the game.
I'm glad you liked it :)
Special thanks for the animalistic style of the fox, (Paws, claws, etc.). Hopefully the contents of the his pants will also be different from human)
- Can confirm he is not like us under those skinny jeans.I don't understand the hatred towards AI. It's the same imaging tool as a painter's brush, and just like a brush, AI needs to be mastered to create good art or animation.
- I try to understand it. My mother is a painter. It takes her weeks or sometimes months to finish a painting. I can see visual artists being disheartened by this. We simply have to maintain what value real human art has and try to view AI as human evolution, rather than competition. IMO it should not be seen as a replacement, but another genre. What I don't respect is blind anger and negativity.I wish you good luck in creating this VN, and will wait for new updates. Btw, what kinds of anthropomorphic animal characters will be in the game? Some cute lynxes won't appear in it by any chance?)))
- I can't say, but lynxes are very cute, I agree :) I appreciate your kind words a lot. Since releasing this, I have had a bit of a culture shock. Even to the extent that I have been undecided about whether to even continue the project here. In that case, I would just make it privately.
So I appreciate it.
I think you need to smooth out the edges of this project. Make the demo of this game a little better, fix the mistakes, and then write a couple chapters of the story. After that, publish a new demo.
Regarding the story. I would advise you to write a backstory of the characters, at least the backstory of the MC at the beginning. Where he's from, who he is, where he's going, etc. At least briefly. Because right now it looks like two strangers met and went somewhere for unknown reasons, -Why? - Just because...
Let's say the protagonist can share his live story with Fox as they walk down the road. The fox might say something brief about himself in return.
From my point of view it is important that at least something about the main character is known at the beginning of the game, otherwise it feels like a gap.
You can write this VN, you did well for a start, don't give up)
I think you need to smooth out the edges of this project. Make the demo of this game a little better, fix the mistakes, and then write a couple chapters of the story. After that, publish a new demo.
- This is what I am doing atm. I am learning as I go, and trying to be as humble about the process as possible.
Regarding the story. I would advise you to write a backstory of the characters, at least the backstory of the MC at the beginning. Where he's from, who he is, where he's going, etc. At least briefly. Because right now it looks like two strangers met and went somewhere for unknown reasons, -Why? - Just because...
Let's say the protagonist can share his live story with Fox as they walk down the road. The fox might say something brief about himself in return.
From my point of view it is important that at least something about the main character is known at the beginning of the game, otherwise it feels like a gap.
- I understand this critique. It's very valid. It may seem strange, but it was actually a conscious choice. Sure, some of the dialogue simply isn't realistic enough, and I will work on that. I was working under the assumption that the MC should fit the reader, and since I don't know the reader, I cannot assume too much about them. In doing so, I swung into another cul-de-sac - having a MC who is bland and one-dimensional.
You can write this VN, you did well for a start, don't give up)
- It may be a while before the next chapter, and rework of what's already here, but I'm working on things, thank you :)
Didn't like it.
Use of ai is quite creative (at least in theory), but that's where my praise ends.
First of all, animations in this game are overused. ANimating character sprite both in and out of CGs as well as locations as if you are recording on camera in real time feel completely unnecessery and distracting.
The inteface and Ui also do not help. Everything seems smaller then in other vns for no good reason, and character sprite is haunting me somewhere from the right side at all times. It all really distracting and get in a way of experience.
And the story is weird. The characters interact with each other in extremely unnatural way and sometimes their interactions just don't make sense. Like, When fox thing lead protagonist to a house, protagonist goes on the balcony by himself and states he was living here for a long time?... And the entire premist is weird too. The point of furry isekai's (or at least the descibtion of the game makes me believe that this is na isekai) Is to transpor a protagonist from the world familiar to us to a world that doesn't. Yet here in original world seems like anthro people are commonplace, so that's automatically makes this world unfamiliar to us. And then we get transported to another which... is also unfamiliar to us...
Yeah, the whole thing is just a mess.
The inteface and Ui also do not help. Everything seems smaller then in other vns for no good reason, and character sprite is haunting me somewhere from the right side at all times. It all really distracting and get in a way of experience.
I'm working on it. This is the first release, there will be jank. Renpy has this annoying setup, where you have to configure the text size for multiple platforms. I simply didn't focus my energy at this, but at the writing, the UI will change.And it doesn't sound like the moving character thing is for you. That is fine.
First of all, animations in this game are overused. ANimating character sprite both in and out of CGs as well as locations as if you are recording on camera in real time feel completely unnecessery and distracting.
Animations in the beginning of the story are lacking atm. I made them as I went along, writing the story. I then went back and changed some things, but I see there are some.. 'bugs' I would almost say. Where the same annoying animation is looping badly, again and again. Things like these will be better in future releases.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'both'. It's either CG, or sprites (which is also CG, but yeah). The CG is occasional, the sprites are primary.
The CG in the first scene is primitive compared to what you'll see later. I'm using KlingAI, and it.. evolved while I was making the first chapter.
It takes a lot of work and money to animate this, because there are so many 'flukes' - not being able to completely control what you get. I've spent $150 on compute so far, I think. Not that that is important, I chose this and I am excited about the possibilities.
The landscape scenes are supposed to be with a static camera angle, but that very rarely succeeds, to as an example. I work with what I get.
When fox thing lead protagonist to a house, protagonist goes on the balcony by himself and states he was living here for a long time?...
No that's a misunderstanding, but I can see how that may need to be rephrased. What he's saying, is that he's lived in the general area where the beginning of the story takes place, and he believes to still be in that area - which is not the case.
"The point of furry isekai's (or at least the descibtion of the game makes me believe that this is na isekai) Is to transpor a protagonist from the world familiar to us to a world that doesn't." I'm not sure what you're talking about, I don't know what isekai means. Maybe I should, but - If it's a story format, I'd just say you've got it wrong. I'm not following any style or format, other than my own, I'm not trying to emulate anything.
Yet here in original world seems like anthro people are commonplace, so that's automatically makes this world unfamiliar to us. And then we get transported to another which... is also unfamiliar to us...
I'm working on this. This is a major "suspension of disbelief" in the story. ..And t's simply not explained in the first chapter. I understand you want some answers, and that you'd like things to feel natural in that regard. I'm working under the premise that the MC is in shock, and under a spell, perhaps of his own making, perhaps something else.Yeah, the whole thing is just a mess.
Please understand, that this is not a finished story - this is just the first chapter - and even that, is not finished. Honestly I find your critique unreasonably harsh, and I suspect it might be a language issue for you as well. I want to listen to fair criticism, but I don't understand your hostility.
> I don't understand your hostility.
Because I'm really tired seeing more and more ignorant and illiterate "writers" trying to do something not only without understanding basic rules of storytellling, but also not even bothering do the most basic research of modern trends in it. Speaking of which:
> I don't know what isekai means
For a writer trying their hand in their own story, especially visual novel, not being aware of the most popular and well-known cultural phenomenon is so inexcusable and baffling I honestly thought you were trolling at first.
Here is my advice: educate yourself on modern fiction, and only *then* try to create something of your own.
I wish you all the best. You have a work to do.
*Because I'm really tired seeing more and more ignorant and illiterate "writers" trying to do something not only without understanding basic rules of storytellling*
Don't have to know the basic rules of storytellling to write a good and interesting story. I don't understand idiots who look more at grammar and other crap instead of the content of the game itself. Besides, every writer has their own style.
You learn from mistakes, how else can you start creating something if you don't try?
Looking at his history of making comments, Naho has a habit of being overly harsh and rude with his criticism. Just because someone has an opinion with some valid points does not mean they can be rude to writers. Criticism should be done constructively to help writers, not tear them down.
I find the problem with AI art is it being disingenuous and scummy, but you give a good reasonable explanation for its use and you aren't doing this just for profit.
Maybe eventually you would change to commissioned art for the game but if you both cant afford it or make it yourself i don't find any problems.
Keep up the good work :]
I would say I'm making a visual novel because I'm fascinated with AI and where it can go, rather than that I want to write a visual novel, and just happened to settle on AI for the visuals. ..So commissioning art is not very relevant in this case. Even if there are some amazingly talented people out there, it would be impossible to create the animations. If I were to commission art and then animate with AI, I would still need 100's of pictures.
I have some scary stuff planned, and some very strange things already made. If people like this story, I will gladly publish another chapter. I'm a little put down right now, tbh. I'm doing this project to escape some struggles in life that are not minor.. so I guess I can't deal with too much negativity.
I don’t mind ai art but it’s definitely stigmatized quite a lot in the current environment. Hopefully you are prepared to deal with inevitable backlash
I would just say that it would be my hope that people can see the potential for weird worlds previously impossible, instead of focusing on what problems AI create. I can only try to share my vision.. people usually don't understand what I have in my head before things are more complete.
An excellent start. I love the animation style even if it is a work in progress. Story is engaging and well written. Looking forward to how this might develop in the future.
Appreciate it!