Hello!

Any updates on your side?

For your information, English Wikipedia has agreed to start a trial time. 2% of newcomers will have access to the Growth team tools. Volunteer mentors will take care of these newcomers. The goal is to check if the features are fitting existing workflows and procedures. Maybe a similar trial would interest Italian Wikipedia? Let me know!

In T255037#7126227, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

Hello!

Any updates on your side?

For your information, English Wikipedia has agreed to start a trial time. 2% of newcomers will have access to the Growth team tools. Volunteer mentors will take care of these newcomers. The goal is to check if the features are fitting existing workflows and procedures. Maybe a similar trial would interest Italian Wikipedia? Let me know!

Hello! Translations are almost finished, however the community is currently involved in the deploy of the Draft namespace: I fear that too many changes wouldn't be accepted.
Unfortunately, we can just wait.
I am subscribed to the newsletter, so I can keep myself updated.

I'd like to let you know that I've developed a bot that detects and then warns users after they make common errors. Not sure it is related to your project, but in case you'll find it an interesting concept to deploy feel free to contact me.

Thank you for the update!

Do you have a page about your bot (even in Italian)? I'm curious about it. :)

In T255037#7126766, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

Thank you for the update!

Do you have a page about your bot (even in Italian)? I'm curious about it. :)

You're welcome.
Here it is! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ValeJappo/BOTutor

@ValeJappo -- wow, thank you for showing this bot! The idea of warning newcomers about when they make an error is something I've talked about with the product manager of the Editing team, @ppelberg. Your bot sends a talk page message after the user completes the edit. Do you think (hypothetically) that it would be better for the newcomer if they could be warned before saving the edit? This is the idea we've been talking about.

In T255037#7128049, @MMiller_WMF wrote:

@ValeJappo -- wow, thank you for showing this bot! The idea of warning newcomers about when they make an error is something I've talked about with the product manager of the Editing team, @ppelberg. Your bot sends a talk page message after the user completes the edit. Do you think (hypothetically) that it would be better for the newcomer if they could be warned before saving the edit? This is the idea we've been talking about.

Definitely! Some wikis already do this using the abuse filter, however it doesn't allow too complex operations.

Thank you for documenting and sharing this, @ValeJappo!

New diwcussion opened at https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Ora_abbiamo_bisogno_delle_funzionalità_del_Growth_Team

@ValeJappo, thank you for starting this new conversation. It seems to be promising. :)

Something that can be useful: we can deploy the features at your wiki, but only for people who activate them in their preferences. We did it for quite all wikis. This is a way for experienced users to try the features. What do you think?

Hi @Trizek-WMF!

thank you for starting this new conversation. It seems to be promising. :)

First of all, thank you! :)
Yes, the conversation is really seeming promising: I started working on the last translations and I prepared two configuration files that reflect our community needs; I also created a page that should contain the "manual" mentors' list. After when this task was started, you added several new special pages (such as the mentor dashboard): do I need to provide you with some aliases?

In the following weeks, I will certainly tell you if our community decided to want these features deployed (and it's very likely).

In the meantime, I would like to report an issue I found with the mentor dashboard 2 (or maybe 3?) days ago. I know this isn't the right place to do it, so let me know if you want me to create a new task.

Something that can be useful: we can deploy the features at your wiki, but only for people who activate them in their preferences. We did it for quite all wikis. This is a way for experienced users to try the features. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure that we don't need that: I've already suggested to the community to try the features on test.wikipedia.org.

Please, let me know, and thank you again!

In T255037#7406354, @ValeJappo wrote:

First of all, thank you! :)

All the credit goes to you. :)

After when this task was started, you added several new special pages (such as the mentor dashboard): do I need to provide you with some aliases?

We haven't created any new aliases, except Special:MentorDashboard.

The mentor dashboard won't be available until a few months. We first need to test it at our pilot wikis and then to a second set of wikis (we already have our full volunteer list) before we deploy it to your home wiki.

We will have a specific deployment process for this feature, where we will request specific translations. So no need to worry about it now. :)

In the following weeks, I will certainly tell you if our community decided to want these features deployed (and it's very likely).

In the meantime, I would like to report an issue I found with the mentor dashboard

Regarding the mentor dashboard, you can create a new ticket and tag it with GrowthExperiments-MentorDashboard.

Something that can be useful: we can deploy the features at your wiki, but only for people who activate them in their preferences. We did it for quite all wikis. This is a way for experienced users to try the features. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure that we don't need that: I've already suggested to the community to try the features on test.wikipedia.org.

Up to you! ;) Some users may find it easier to try the features /in situ/, with everything matching Italian Wikipedia's processes. test.wp is nice, but it is not the same as a real test.

In any case, the deployment of the features will take this first step into consideration:

1. your community says yes and you inform us about it
2. we set a date for the deployment
3. we deploy the features to 0% of newcomers. This way, we check if the tools work well. So as you and your community!
4. we deploy the features to 80% of newcomers (we keep a group of 20% of newcomers as a comparison group, to check if the features aren't harmful)

The time between step 3 and 4 is usually one week long.
But we can work with this order:

1. we deploy the features to 0% of newcomers. This way, we check if the tools work well. So as you and your community!
2. your community says yes and you inform us about it
3. we set a date for the deployment
4. we deploy the features to 80% of newcomers (we keep a group of 20% of newcomers as a comparison group, to check if the features aren't harmful)

Then, step 1 can be as long as the community consultation. The Germans worked this way, encouraging people to test the features in real conditions before deploying.

@Trizek-WMF Thank you.

I'll ask the community whether if they want the features to be deployed to 0% of newcomers or if they wish to wait.

I opened two tasks reporting issues with the mentor dashboard.

The mentor dashboard is very impressive: I thought that it was already a thing, I'll wait impatiently for it :)

Are community configurations aviable? We already thought about how we would like to set up
NewcomerTasks.json and GrowthExperimentsConfig.json.

In T255037#7406473, @ValeJappo wrote:

Are community configurations aviable? We already thought about how we would like to set up
NewcomerTasks.json and GrowthExperimentsConfig.json.

They will be immediately available when we will deploy the features. This is why we usually have one week minimum between the 0% phase and the 80% phase: the community can work on these configurations!

@Trizek-WMF great, I'll update you, then!

@ValeJappo, what would be the next step of the conversation? No one commented since a few days.

@ValeJappo and @Sannita, thank you the these news.

@Urbanecm_WMF, when can you do the configuration? I'd like to set a date for, let's say, next week, so that our Italian friends will have time to advertise the change to their community.

I'll deploy the features to dark mode later today, so Italian community can
test them out and make sure configuration is correct.

Actual deployment to newcomers can happen Mon to Thu, you name the day :).

Change 730510 had a related patch set uploaded (by Urbanecm; author: Urbanecm):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] itwiki: Deploy Growth features in dark mode

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/730510

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T11:49:50Z] <urbanecm> [urbanecm@mwmaint1002 ~]$ mwscript extensions/WikimediaMaintenance/createExtensionTables.php --wiki=itwiki growthexperiments # T255037

Change 730510 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] itwiki: Deploy Growth features in dark mode

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/730510

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T11:50:37Z] <urbanecm> [urbanecm@mwmaint1002 ~]$ mwscript extensions/GrowthExperiments/maintenance/initWikiConfig.php --wiki=itwiki --phab='T255037' # T255037

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T11:54:02Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php: 38a019d4fd6ff8e7cf92f5e7c6a899c336f20235: itwiki: Deploy Growth features in dark mode (T255037; 1/3) (duration: 01m 05s)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T11:55:07Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Synchronized dblists/growthexperiments.dblist: 38a019d4fd6ff8e7cf92f5e7c6a899c336f20235: Deploy Growth features in dark mode (T255037; 2/3) (duration: 01m 04s)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T11:56:12Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Synchronized wmf-config/config/itwiki.yaml: 38a019d4fd6ff8e7cf92f5e7c6a899c336f20235: itwiki: Deploy Growth features in dark mode (T255037) (duration: 01m 04s)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-13T12:11:10Z] <urbanecm> [urbanecm@mwmaint1002 ~]$ mwscript extensions/GrowthExperiments/maintenance/initWikiConfig.php --wiki=itwiki --phab='T255037' # after applying 730512 at mwmaint1002 to workaround T293219 # T255037

@Trizek-WMF @ValeJappo Growth features are now available at Italian Wikipedia in the dark mode. I did not blindly copy the config files from testwiki; instead, I generated default configuration for itwiki using Wikidata. You can view (and if you're an admin, change) the configuration at https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:EditGrowthConfig.

In T255037#7423929, @Urbanecm_WMF wrote:

@Trizek-WMF @ValeJappo Growth features are now available at Italian Wikipedia in the dark mode. I did not blindly copy the config files from testwiki; instead, I generated default configuration for itwiki using Wikidata. You can view (and if you're an admin, change) the configuration at https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:EditGrowthConfig.

Hi, thank you.

While checking if everything were ok, I noticed that the panel to ask questions to my mentor is not visible, is this normal?

In T255037#7423973, @ValeJappo wrote:

Hi, thank you.

While checking if everything were ok, I noticed that the panel to ask questions to my mentor is not visible, is this normal?

I checked the configuration file that you have created, and the mentor list page is wrong. Probably this is causing the issue.

@ValeJappo, you're right. The list un the configuration file wasn't the right one.

I'm currently copying the configuration files you prepared to this new page.

I copied the elements from the config files that have been defined.

Everything seems to be ready: at my Homepage, I have a mentor and thousand of articles to edit. I now need to learn Italian to really enjoy the tools.

@Urbanecm_WMF @Trizek-WMF

There is a small issue with a dialog's height; what is concerning is that it is only happening on itwiki (at least, not on frwiki or testwiki), see T293262

In T255037#7424834, @ValeJappo wrote:

There is a small issue with a dialog's height; what is concerning is that it is only happening on itwiki (at least, not on frwiki or testwiki), see T293262

This issue will be fixed soon.

I think it is time to proceeded. @ValeJappo, what do you think about providing the features to 80% of newcomers, starting on Wednesday afternoon (Europe time)?

In T255037#7437156, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

I think it is time to proceeded. @ValeJappo, what do you think about providing the features to 80% of newcomers, starting on Wednesday afternoon (Europe time)?

The community supports this deployment, so that should be ok.

@Trizek-WMF are you oging to write a message at the village pump tomorrow, or do I have to prepare one?

It appears that they have been enabled. Reporting this to the community, thank you!

It is supposed to happen tomorrow. :)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:UltimeModifiche?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=newcomer task&limit=50&days=7&urlversion=2 returns an empty result.

In T255037#7445871, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

It is supposed to happen tomorrow. :)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:UltimeModifiche?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=newcomer task&limit=50&days=7&urlversion=2 returns an empty result.

New users do have a mentor, according to {{#mentor:}}

In T255037#7445901, @ValeJappo wrote:

New users do have a mentor, according to {{#mentor:}}

You're right but it is a side effect of the features being available, but not visible.

Since you have a mentor list at your wiki, anyone who turns on the features in their preferences will get a mentor. This database started filling itself the day we made the deployment: every new account has a mentor assigned (it is the default behavior), and everyone who turn on the features on in their preferences, have a mentor.

But these newcomers don't get the WelcomeSurvey, they don't have have access to the Homepage not the help panel. Yet. It will be the case tomorrow. :)

Technically, these users have a mentor, but they don't know that they have a mentor.

Have you created a test account to check if a new account have access to the tools? I created a random test account, HTP?CP4083C3A. I have a mentor if I use {{#mentor:HTP?CP4083C3A}} (it is user:SixthGrave) but I have no access to the tools. :)

@Trizek-WMF thank you! I fixed my announcement taking this in consideration.

Change 732437 had a related patch set uploaded (by Urbanecm; author: Urbanecm):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Promote Growth features out of darkmode on several wikis

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/732437

Change 732437 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Promote Growth features out of darkmode on several wikis

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/732437

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-10-20T21:08:28Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php: b9cf996a38d82fdd67e600a5a951e88423957e8d: Promote Growth features out of darkmode on several wikis (T291826, T255037, T287878) (duration: 01m 04s)

Hey @Trizek-WMF @ValeJappo, I just enabled Growth features for 80% of newcomers on Italian Wikipedia, per the due date set above. Enjoy!

In T255037#7446187, @Urbanecm_WMF wrote:

Hey @Trizek-WMF @ValeJappo, I just enabled Growth features for 80% of newcomers on Italian Wikipedia, per the due date set above. Enjoy!

Thank you, what's next, if there's something else to do?

Checked - all seems to be ok for a new account and for enabling Homepage manually.

Two notes:

• there are 0 links tasks available

• the task description lists two links for config json files on testwiki. There are Speciale:EditGrowthConfig and Speciale:NewcomerTasksInfo on itwiki.

@Etonkovidova there are no links tasks available because there isn't any article without links

Speciale:PagineSenzaUscita is based on cache, and not really the best way to know about dead-end pages.

The "no links" task can be covered by {{O}}, used on more than 3,000 pages (I stopped counting).

In T255037#7450615, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

Speciale:PagineSenzaUscita is based on cache, and not really the best way to know about dead-end pages.

I know, we should probably consider to create a bot to do it more efficiently.

The "no links" task can be covered by {{O}}, used on more than 3,000 pages (I stopped counting).

Unfortunately, no. This template is used for articles that aren't linked from other pages, while the no link task should display articles that simply don't contain links.

In T255037#7450640, @ValeJappo wrote:

The "no links" task can be covered by {{O}}, used on more than 3,000 pages (I stopped counting).

Unfortunately, no. This template is used for articles that aren't linked from other pages, while the no link task should display articles that simply don't contain links.

I'm not suggesting this template as a random one: it is one of the templates we use by default when we setup the configuration. Some communities have agreed on using it.

A mid-term possibility for "add links" would be to use suggested links. this feature is not available at your wiki. We are currently making some adjustments to this feature, but when it will be ready, you could consider it as a new task.

@Trizek-WMF there should be a misunderstanding, as this doesn't make sense to me.

This template is used to report "an article with no links from other pages in the main article namespace" (orphan).

"Add a link allow users to review links that are suggested by the wiki".

It wouldn't make sense adding links in orphan pages: they don't need it. They need other articles linking to them instead.

I know, but the template is used by multiple wikis. Which doesn't make it a "must have": it is up to it.wp. :)

In T255037#7455688, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

I know, but the template is used by multiple wikis. Which doesn't make it a "must have": it is up to it.wp. :)

Oh, I see. Thank you!