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Create a new workflow for posting a comment without indentation
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Description

This task is about creating a new workflow for posting comments within existing conversations that are not indented.

For added context, see @Pasztilla's and @Samat's mention of this functionality.[1][2]

Use cases

  • As @Samat puts well, "when somebody would like to say something about the topic (described in the section title), but their comment is not a direct reply to anybody."
    • Example: see this conversation on hu.wiki [3] wherein people are posting their reactions to the prospect of trying new DiscussionTools features on their wiki as "original posts" (read: comments with 0 indentation). Others are then replying to those "original posts" using indented comments.
  • @Ladsgroup described another situation wherein they were wanting to use a Reply Tool-like interface to add a new, as @matmarex described it, "top-level comment" in the discussion.
  • "There is also no clear way to leave a comment that is not indented without starting a new section; this is commonly needed when leaving a general comment or when outdenting explicitly with {{od}}/{{od2}}." via User:TheEarwig at en.wiki
  • "Right now creating a new "thread" in a discussion and not replying to someone requires editing using Wikitext. It would be nice if there was a reply button next to the header of the topic so that you can create a new "thread".'' via @Lectrician1 on mediawiki.org: Topic:Wp1cs7cboe6uwici

  1. https://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipédia:Konzultáció_a_vitalapokról_és_a_közösségi_kommunikációról&type=revision&diff=22425422&oldid=22425327
  2. https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Vjxycppfwer4qmrm&topic_showPostId=vk54ectfoveub75g#flow-post-vk54ectfoveub75g
  3. https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Konzultáció_a_vitalapokról_és_a_közösségi_kommunikációról#2020-as_észrevételek

Event Timeline

ppelberg renamed this task from Create a new workflow for posting a comment w/o indentation to Create a new workflow for posting a comment without indentation.Aug 6 2022, 12:50 AM

I was solving the same problem in Convenient-Discussions and collecting feedback from users a couple of years ago. My conclusion as a result of this discussion was the following:

  1. Comments at the 0th level (without indentation) split a section into several parts: replies to the original post and replies to other comments at the 0th level.
  2. Despite the fact that comments at the 0th level do reply to the original post at least in the sense that they are placed in the section created by that post[1], they create an additional "root" in the hierarchy.
  3. While doing that, they nevertheless do not establish a prominent enough boundary between these parts of the section.
  4. They also violate a reasonable enough expectation of both posters and readers that new replies to the original post go at the end of the section[2].
  5. We already have a means to split a section into several parts: subsections.
  6. Unlike bare 0-level comments in the middle of a section, they do establish a prominent enough boundary between parts of a section: the headline, in which the author can articulate the reason why they chose to deviate from the subject suggested by the original poster.
  7. As a consequence of the above, creating a subsection with a clear headline should always be preferred to adding a 0-level comment. A discussion tool should not encourage adding 0-level comments.

So I sticked to this reasoning. I think at some point I did witness an exception to it (can't remember what it was unfortunately) which led me to allow creating a subsection without specifying a headline, which in practice created a 0-level comment as suggested by this task. But that's basically an undocumented workaround, and I haven't met any evidence to suggest it should be something bigger.

[1] When a section is not created by a post, i.e. it's a section without a leading post (e.g. pre-created sections with votes or comments on a known subject), comments in such a section are usually all indented.
[2] Or, if there are subsections, at the end of the first chunk of a section, before the first subsection.