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Proposal: restore normal editing permissions on all mobile sites

Latest comment: 9 years ago175 comments118 people in discussion

Proposal

As you may know, Wikimedia projects have a mobile version which resides in domains like https://meta.m.wikimedia.org . Some devices are automatically redirected from the normal domains to the mobile ones, which are expected to absorb half of our total traffic by the end of 2015. What few know is that the mobile sites don't follow the standard permission system: instead, they override permissions and prevent unregistered users from editing at all.

I propose to remove this exception to the rule, which was meant to be temporary and looks now technically unnecessary. Unregistered users will be allowed to edit on the mobile subdomain for a wiki, if they are allowed on the main domain.

The Italian Wikipedia community has already decided to do so in October 2014. Thanks to several users who reported issues, as well as some committed developers, most technical issues have been identified and fixed: see phabricator:T55069 for a list. Other users have looked into the data and concluded that the change was definitely a net benefit, because contributions increased by some percentage point and they were as good as unregistered editing on the desktop site; the Italian Wikipedia community therefore achieved consensus to make the change permanent. See it.m.wikipedia.org for details; if you have any questions, I'll forward them to the users who were involved in this analysis.

While the Italian Wikipedia example may not be representative of the results on all Wikimedia projects, we are currently not aware of any reason to think that restoring normal permissions would do harm. If you know an issue of the mobile site which makes unregistered editing less productive than on the desktop site, please report it with all details you know (you can login with your SUL account) and mention it here.

Process details:

  • This proposal follows the standard configuration change process; like many before, it's discussed on the Wikimedia Forum for the sake of all Wikimedia projects. Local communities were not given a chance to discuss the non-standard permissions of the mobile sites; they will now. Local requests for configuration changes will always be possible, as usual.
  • I'm going to link this discussion from Tech/News. If there is some support for the idea, I'll send notifications to all wikis and to the various mailing lists. I propose to close this discussion by 2015-03-15 and, if some configuration change achieves consensus by then, have it applied on the live sites by the end of March.

10:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Conclusion

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T93210

As of today, there is broad consensus in support of the proposal, as discussed by an ample spectrum of users active in multiple wikis. Several users stressed that: talk page access is crucial, to ensure communication with mobile users; errors of the past, like the mobile uploads campaign, must not be repeated; local and global effects in terms of (un)productive contributions will be under constant monitoring and re-evaluation per the usual processes. Nemo 15:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm late, but I want to mention that "Proposer should not close RfC or such". Let it be closed by others. ps. Make sure to exclude kowiki per phab:T93210#1160189. — regards, Revi 13:13, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Support Support as proposer. We can tweak the above text if needed, to reflect consensus in the discussion. --Nemo 10:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I agree. Vogone (talk) 11:08, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
    How you can? You are not an author! You are not one of those, who have to fix all the rubbish! Marcus Cyron (talk) 23:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    It's certainly true that I do not belong to the most active content contributors, yet I have contributed articles to several wikis, fixes of already existing content included. I do not believe enabling IP edits from the mobile domain will make much of a difference to the status quo, such edits are already possible when switching to "desktop" view. It may rather have a positive effect because of the for mobile users more appealing design of the editing interface, so that less spelling mistakes etc. are being made. Either we allow unregistered edits, or we don't at all. Since it was decided to allow them, I don't see any reason why we should disallow certain unregistered edits merely because a certain skin is used. Vogone (talk) 18:18, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Yup, btw why not use RfC/Request for comment for this?--AldNonymousBicara? 11:12, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
what if I create Requests_for_comment/Restore_normal_editing_permissions_on_all_mobile_sites with a redirect here? Is it "correct" enough?--Alexmar983 (talk) 09:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Seems good enough, don't forget to move all comment from this section to there.--AldNonymousBicara? 09:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Please don't. As I said, global configuration changes discussions usually happen here. This page is followed more. You can however add a link from Requests_for_comment, of course. --Nemo 10:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
the comments on that page were in the form "\topic" see, so I though there was no problem in creating a page with such syntax, but consisting only ina simple redirect here.--Alexmar983 (talk) 10:35, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Ok. Alan (talk) 15:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support per w:WP:HUMAN. Also per privacy policy; blocking all unregistered mobile edits is hardly a "rare circumstance". PiRSquared17 (talk) 17:16, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I think we should wait for talk page links first. --Krenair (talk • contribs) 17:41, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support with the caveat that we can always disable it again on specific wikis where vandalism becomes unmanageable. wctaiwan (talk) 21:42, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support with per-project opt-out option/caveat as suggested by wctaiwan, but I would like to see talk page links first as recommended by Krenair, but it isnt quite a blocker in my mind, as mobile users are going to tend towards quick-edit-and-forget rather than engaged editing. John Vandenberg (talk) 07:46, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Comment, mobile uploads on commons were an unmitigated disaster, thousands of low quality selfies etc. without any potential use, description, license, category, source, nothing. From that point of view "permit more mobile contributions" isn't an attractive plan. OTOH those crap uploads all had (single purpose) accounts, commons doesn't permit uploads without login. And determined vandals or spammers have accounts, so that's no valid reason to exclude mobile users without account. Remotely related, phabricator requires a login for editing. –Be..anyone (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Sure, but that's entirely unrelated. The mobile uploads were using a specially-made upload software, separate from the standard Special:Upload and UploadWizard, with "calls to action" banners which encouraged random people to add random images in random places. The failure you mention was a failure of such banners (mainly) and of the custom software invented out of the blue. Here we are talking of the editing interface registered users use as well, and we are not talking of any call to action, so the two sources of the failure are eliminated: which explains the good results on it.wiki. --Nemo 08:24, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
in any case, it should be possibile, even if policy globally changes in a less rigid manner, to allow restriction for single project. I have always supported the idea that every community should modulate its own strategy if necessary. --Alexmar983 (talk) 09:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Sure, it would be still possible to change the configuration per-wiki :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 10:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Support Support, tnx for info (above below). –Be..anyone (talk) 22:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
sample: selective RC - 250 edits between 23 DIC 14:45 and 24 DIC 00:10
edit kind total % % good % bad % innocuous
Good 57 41,61% 41,61%
not good but in good faith 15 10,95% 10,95%
good, no sources 12 8,76% 8,76%
vandalism 12 8,76% 8,76%
kidding, pov, hagiography 10 7,30% 7,30%
test, innocuous, autoreverted 9 6,57% 6,57%
can't be evaluated 7 5,11% 5,11%
good but to be improved 5 3,65% 3,65%
birth/death dates 4 2,92% 2,92%
spam 2 1,46% 1,46%
source added 2 1,46% 1,46%
rant 2 1,46% 1,46%
total 137 100% 66,42% 21,90% 11,68%
  • Many users made their own analysis of mobile IPs edits, mine was here, but I copypaste the table here (roughly translated, feel free to ping me for better details). There are of course series of edits for each IP which count as 1 in this scheme (this is why the total edits is not 250), and for 3 or 4 IPs I'd say they were the same users reconnected with a different number (the interval covers 9 hours appr.). Please allow a 3% tolerance for eventual errors in identifying the series, and a 5% for eventual mistakes of mine in judging those edits: still the proportions are the same as usual, if not a little better than the average. Of course we don't have stats on "before the test", and we made no formal direct comparison with the average stats, even if we gave a quick look at them and found them in coherence. Please consider that these data are extracted from selective RecentChanges: mobile IP edits are automatically tagged as such, and we found no evidence of user agent spoofing in contributions' analysis and CUs, so we could avoid further study. Last but not least, misspells and typos were not considered as conditioning the judgement, for very practical reasons related to the material touch-typing and T9 issues. Tests were repeated with smaller samples, every now and then, with very similar results.
    Hope this answers to your kind question. Meow :-P --g (talk) 23:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your table, Gianfranco! I want to make it clear that i do like and appreciate this bold project on italian WP: Getting community consensus for a temporary experiment, proposing local configuration changes and fixes, watching the results and making the experiment a permanent change for mobile anonymous contributions. But what is proposed here is something different, imposing a global configuration change for all projects. It would be great if some other local wikis would be inspired by this itWP project to try this out too (maybe finnish, hungarian, hebrew WP?) and maybe this proposal here will lead to this - that would be great (and hopefully produce even more data for analysis, reliable data for evaluation).
The number of mobile anonymous edits per day is plotted with a weekly seasonal component modeled and the extracted trend overlayed. A vertical line is plotted on Nov. 1st. (Research talk:Anonymous mobile editing in Italian Wikipedia/Work log/2014-12-31)
Now to the table. This is a very narrow sample, "250 edits in 8 hours between 23 DIC 14:45 and 24 DIC 00:10". And look at the graph: mobile anonymous editing only really began 5 days before, 2014-12-17, with the fix for phab:T74852 (it required 3 clicks to reach the editor before). Therefor I really wonder if this day gives a meaningful sample, also the afternoon before christmas is not a typical editing day. And i don't see why you count edits that are "not good but in good faith" as "good" edits, they are "not good". I looked at the further development of the quantity of mobile anonymous editing by cloning Nemos quarry query: Daily anonymous mobile edits from Italian Wikipedia (2014-11-01 - 2015-02-24). Highest number is 566 edits at 2015-01-05, then it drops to nearly nothing after 2015-01-09 until 2015-01-25 (why? configuration changes? IP range blocks?). And 2015-02-12 it drops off again from 400 edits to ~60 edits, and stays there (gerrit:186591 made the "2 clicks" process more intuitive and was deployed on 2015-02-11). I don't think we have the data here to draw any reliable conclusions from. I am still waiting for the "quality analysis" from the fabulous WMF number cruncher halfak. Once again: If italian WP is happy with this, i am happy for them and i appreciate being bold, trying things out. I am sure the engaged italian wikipedians will watch how this develops in terms of vandalism, quantity and quality. But i don't think this is enough analysis now to force mobile anonymous editing (and its patrolling) on, say, the urdu Wikipedia. I'm not opposed to allowing mobile anonymous editing on principle. I am opposed to allowing mobile anonymous editing solely by ideological reasons without closely analysing vandalism impact and patrolling workload. --Atlasowa (talk) 09:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
"not good but in good faith" means to me that I had in front of me a good newbie who wasn't successful in his attempt to help. Of course it's not a good edit, and in fact I didn't write anything different, it isn't a good edit, but I'm there to assist that user, help him to find his way to correctness just like others did with me when I was a newbie, and it isn't bad at all for the Project that we have met a new good user: rather, it's up to us not to loose this opportunity. This is good in my evaluation because I wasn't looking at the edits, I was looking at the users, since the opposition against free anon editing has always been "'cos vandals could come". I'm here from little after the Nupedia old times, and the point has always been this one. Now, I could say that we survived tragedies like when the first vandals came here with vandal-bots and there were no tools to stop them quickly, so vandalism is an issue, but it's not our core worry. But to be "modern" (:-) I'd rather say that my table shows that nothing changes in these terms depending on the device the users use, vandals come at the same proportions as always, so I can't confirm that there would be a difference in this. It's a matter of proportions, so if with anon editing we'll get double vandalism, we'll also get double "good edits", which is what we really are looking for. And I don't know why we should necessarily conclude that anon mobile IPs shouldn't give us more patrollers too, as it always has been.
The sample is small, I know, but I work for a living, and I just couldn't stay more on the topic, sorry. It was the day before Christmas' Eve, to be precise, and since with Eve Italian holidays start, it was the last moment in which the test could have been really meaningful (or easy to decipher :-).
Ideological reasons are not the only ones: thinking of how many users will move from desktop to mobile should let us start figuring a WP very soon made by half of its users on mobile devices. This is to say half of us. And since I'm not planning to go to mobile, it must be you who is going to that realm :-) I'm just kidding, but this is seriously what we should be prepared to. So, when half of the current users will be mobile users, would you still think that there will really be anything different between desktop and mobile users? I believe that this "lifestyle" changing is better to be compared with when (in my country) telephone companies changed their fees from a pay-per-minute basis to a flat-forfait fixed fee: when freed from a time-depending cost, WP users doubled themselves and doubled their time in the projects, and vandalism too, of course, doubled. Changing the habits doesn't change the mentalities, if you are ready to be a good user you would be it whatever the medium; and viceversa. But with that historical change about fees, contents grew up in a much much higher proportion tahn expected, and it was the time of the greatest WP's success. To resume, if one bad edit gives me three good edits, this is our constant proportion, if you want 30 good edits you need 10 vandals. We still have a lot to grow, so I'd say go procure me 10 vandals, please, and I'd add: hurry up :-D --g (talk) 11:08, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Comment Hello Nemo and all. Great to see more excitement towards allowing more edits. I see @Alexmar983: has already suggested moving the discussion to Rfc, which didn't happen. Obviously, there would be a vandalism concern with allowing global IP edits, and naturally, projects with higher mobile traffic would be affected the most. If we need to allow a more through discussion with larger WP projects, to factor in their input, and to allow them to prepare accordingly, how do we do this? Thanks --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 19:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    • saw you ping: i am a newbie on meta and I wasn't sure it was correct, than I went offline. Should I create at least that redirect in that form?
    • Thanks for the comment. Broader communication was already planned, see above; we're doing this in steps. There are two things to do: 1) communicate the current exception (which should have been done years ago); 2) involve in this discussion. I just sent a global notification doing both for ~600 wikis. On ~100 administrator noticeboards I also notified (1), while forgetting a functioning link for (2) :|... I apologise; well, each wiki got one link or more. --Nemo 23:00, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Comment if someone need additional data to decide, a possible solution is to target the "medium-large" wikipedias (>500000 articles) with the highest ratio of patrollers (let's say the sum of active administrators and rollbackers) and non-autopatrolled changes and propose a second test. Or just compare them with itwiki, you would probably discover that, even after the selection of new rollbackers which I supported starting this January, we have less "patrolling efficience" than other platforms. If we had no disaster, I hardly doubt more "controlled" wikipedia project will.--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support As simply following what the established principles of the wiki are. This is not the time to have the debate about whether anons should edit at all or not, for that will require much wider and bigger consensus. KonveyorBelt 17:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose - ca. 50% unusefull edits. No, too much work, mostly to be done by those people who not say "support" here. Marcus Cyron (talk) 22:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support The risk is not in the media but in the specific IP anon user regardless of the mobile or desktop equipment used to connect. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Marcus Cyron. -- M\A 22:41, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support. It seems to me that discriminating against all mobile users is way too broad a protection. Any wiki that has trouble with vandalism can presumably block the vandals, use range blocks where needed for persistent vandals who use dynamic IPs, and use filters for specific words or phrases a vandal tends to use. Am I missing something? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support, IPs are human too and everyone should be able to edit Wikipedia. Some exceptions are always possible but its should be justified. --The Polish (talk) 22:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support: There is no reason for such an exception. Logically—because of the up-to-now policy—we have no data that the anonymous mobile edits would be good, but we have also no data that the anonymous mobile edits would be bad. We should make them possible (and we shall see if there will be problems). --Mmh (talk) 23:21, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support It's even hard to understand why there was an exception in the first place. The whole Wikipedia editing model stems from the principle that anyone can edit: having more contributors certainly means more mistakes and vandalism, but it also means more corrections and useful contribution; that's the classic equilibrium of wisdom crowd… Alexander Doria (talk) 23:27, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support per Alexander Doria. Jules78120 (talk) 23:30, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support per PiRSquared17. Ruy Pugliesi◥ 00:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support per Pi. --AmaryllisGardener talk 01:29, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I would even call it essential for anonymous users of Wikivoyage. If you arrive at a restaurant listed in Wikivoyage at 17:00 because the times of that listing says 17:00-22:30, but you discover that it should be 18:30-midnight, you must be able to correct that at once on your mobile device. Needing to register first, then logon, then correct, is too time consuming for an average anonymous user. --FredTC (talk) 01:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
To those who fear more vandalism: Anyone who tries to find the "edit" link can find the "Desktop view" link at the bottom of the page, click it and do an edit. So, there is no real protection by not allowing edits from mobile pages. --FredTC (talk) 10:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I don't see a difference between user behaviour of mobile users and other users. There must be a possibility to edit from mobile without creating an account, let it be less prominent but clearly it must be there. Of course there will be a percent of vandalism, but I don't see why potentially useful edits from IP editors are rejected without reason — NickK (talk) 01:52, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Stephan Kulla (talk) 03:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nowadays many new users are mobile users. We should let them edit even without registering. There is no problem even if they make mistakes. They will learn only after using it. Then they will automatically create their own account. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 02:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Being a free encyclopedia means that it should be editable from any devices.Ionutzmovie (talk) 03:10, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Possible strongest Oppose Oppose I believe enabling IPs on mobile will increase maintenance work, and it will be our duty to clean up the mess created by anons. I already have to cleanup the mess created by others, and this will increase local admins and countervandal people's work. — regards, Revi 04:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    • So you think the result will be different from it.wiki's? On it.wiki, anecdotally, I see the opposite: for instance, unregistered mobile users clean up broken visualeditor edits by desktop users and reduce maintenance work. :) --Nemo 00:17, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
      • itwiki guys and enwiki guys are not same, and enwiki guys and kowiki guys are not same. If it is done per-wiki basis, I feel fine, still big NO-NO for kowiki. — regards, Revi 00:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per Revi. Way to much spam and vandalism is entering wikipedia if we allow this. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Saschaporsche (talk) 05:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support as proposer. --►Cekli829 06:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose for now. As more vandalism is to be expected, talk page links have to be fully viable before this is implemented. --♫ Sänger - Talk - superputsch must go 06:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
This is just meant as an "oppose" for general implementation in all the wikiverse, without prior community consultaion in the respective projects. If some community wants it this way, it should be implemented there definitely, the communities of course should have the last say on this. So for deWP: not without MB beforehand, for others whatever the consensus method may be there. --♫ Sänger - Talk - superputsch must go 08:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
So, can we start a MB on dewiki? ;) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 14:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Es hindert Dich niemend daran, eins zu starten. Ich würde ohne direkten Diskussions- und Metaseitenzugang dagegen plädieren, eine Plattform ohne direkten Zugang dazu taugt imho nicht zum editieren, aber wenn es eine entsprechende Mehrheit gäbe, dann sei es so. --♫ Sänger - Talk - superputsch must go 14:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Prinzipiell nicht, allerdings halte ich persönlich ein MB in genau der anderen Form für nötig, also nicht, ob nicht-angemeldete Nutzer editieren dürfen, sondern das nicht angemeldete Nutzer nicht bearbeiten dürfen, da deWiki dann entgegen der globalen Konfiguration handeln würde/möchte (vorausgesetzt, hier wird entschieden, dass anonyme Bearbeitungen erlaubt werden würden). Grüße --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 16:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Wenn der Status Quo, also das Nichteditieren für IPs, in der deWP geändert werden sollte, bedürfe das eines MB in selbiger. Das hier sollte der deWP nicht so etwas vorschreiben können. Das Wikiversum ist schließlich keine zentralistische Veranstaltung. ♫ Sänger - Talk - superputsch must go 18:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Das die WMF-Wikis keine zentralistische Veranstaltung sind, musst du mir nicht erklären, ich bin zufällig auch ein kleines Licht in der Community. <Wenn der Status Quo, also das Nichteditieren für IPs, in der deWP geändert werden sollte> -> meiner Ansicht nach würde genau das eben nicht geändert werden, sondern der von der Community akzeptierte Status "jeder kann editieren" (wie übrigens auch in den Hilfeartikeln ausgewiesen, die auch für mobile Nutzer zugänglich sind) für alle Geräte (wieder)hergestellt werden (und damit nicht zuletzt den Grundprinzipien der WMF-Wikis gleichzukommen). Aber das ist natürlich, wie bereits gesagt, meine persönliche Ansicht :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 06:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support anon editing is one central feature of Wikipedia, and as mobile units tend to gain more and more use this change would change one of the root Wikipedia philosophy. I strongly disagree to "hide" such a change behind a feature which was started simply as a helper for those users. --grin ✎ 06:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support That's what a wiki should be : anyone can edit from anywhere at anytime. Kropotkine 113 (talk) 07:21, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose. No benefits expected. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 07:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support --85.181.149.223 08:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support The WMF lets the local communities decide whether logging in should be an option or not (and whether "flagged revisions" etc should be enabled or not). Some projects (including sv.wikipedia where I edit) have actively decided not to require logging in. Then this decision should not be overridden for unnecessary technical reasons. The same should go for the Wikipedia apps for cell phones. /NH 10:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I cannot add nothing else to what has already been said. imo "Anyone can edit" is one of our most important principles, which we cannot disappoint. --Nastoshka (talk) 09:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I see absolutely no reason to discriminate against mobile unregisteres users, compared to desktop unregistered users. --MB-one (talk) 09:44, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support. As long as unregistered anons are allowed on desktop version, same must apply to mobile version. Exceptions can be made on individual project basis if significantly larger vandalism on that project from mobile unregistered users. Nahum (talk) 09:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Leaning to oppose. Arguments of freedom, trust and vandalism all make sense, but editing a mobile version doesn't. Stripped-down mobile pages are barely usable for reading, and outright unusable for editing. They cannot visualise the intended final page layout with all the tables, template and stuff - so what's the point of editing blind? Why not simply prompt the user to edit from a real computer, or at least switch their tablet from mobile to plain page view? It's just one click away. Retired electrician (talk) 10:00, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    • ??? You can edit in mobile, like on desktop, the source code of the page. If you attempt to save the edit, you will see a preview of your edit, which is generated by mediawiki's own parser and includes all tables, templates and so on. If it doesn't fit into mobile, you probably shouldn't save this edit and better rework it, to fit mobile. I see no point, why this should prevent mobile unregistered users shouldn't be able to edit, especially because this problem applies to registered users, too. --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 10:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
      • Registered too, precisely. Make mobile read only. The idea of reworking for mobile could have a chance if wikipedia allowed content forks for different platforms. It doesn't. Checking for mobile compatibility is desirable, enforcing it on existing content equates with vandalism. Retired electrician (talk) 11:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
        • Make mobile read only -> sorry, i don't understand why (to explain: i try to find out, what we can do better to make mobile editing possible for all users :)), so maybe you can explain, why you think, that mobile anonymous editing shouldn't be possible :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 14:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I see no reason to keep this restriction. Mathis B (talk) 11:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Have faith in mankind! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support--Serkanland (talk) 11:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Well, let's. Let's see what can be created with touchscreen. It will be fun. — Green Zero обг 13:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Wikipedia is the site that anyone can edit. But we are talking about a full desktop version. Those who wants to edit Wikipedia anonimously, can switch to full version and do it. Mobile version should be only read-only.--Soul Train (talk) 13:10, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    • But we are talking about a full desktop version -> are we? And if so, why? Why is mobile more bad as desktop (or why is desktop better then mobile?). Maybe i misunderstood your comment, but the mobile editor isn't much different from the desktop editor. You edit the source code of the page and see a preview (by the way: mobile editor forces the preview to prevent possible styling issues or type errors), so the mobile editor does exactly the same as the desktop editor. And mobile apps can already edit without register an account (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&hideliu=1&tagfilter=mobile app edit). Why no-one complains about it? Why is mobile apps different from mobile web? I would like to read some arguments, instead of just "mobile editing is bad" :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 14:22, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Blue Elf (talk) 13:33, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support The type of device that someone is using is irrelevant to whether they should be allowed to edit. --Cgt (talk) 14:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Strongly agree. I'm honestly surprised that this is not the case already. "Anyone can edit" is critically important. HiDrNick! 14:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Please not on WikiquoteNL! We have only one active sysop and a few ( Two ore three) editers. We can't handel this, I am affraid. Anonymous edits are very rear usefull, 99% is complet nonsens. (nonsens artikels, etc.) Graaf Statler (talk) 15:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support I absolutely agree. --Uğurkenttalk 15:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support What a good idea. --Turgut46 (talk) 16:26, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose I think this is great in theory. In practice, I have a number of problems with this:
    1. Individual communities must be allowed to opt out, as stated above.
    2. Talk page access must be fully implemented, as stated above. Ability to discuss possibly controversial edits on talk pages is one of the things that makes otherwise open editing access work.
    3. What type of device does make a difference. Typing on a device as small as a phone certainly leads to more typographical errors than typing on a computer or tablet.
    4. Especially because of the last two points, I would tend to favor limiting mobile editing to autoconfirmed editors. I want to make sure editing gets done by people committed enough to the project to be responsible in discussing edits and responsible in correcting technical errors.
StevenJ81 (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose No reason why not to log in when using mobile. Remember the problems with mobile uploads disabled on Commons.--Aschmidt (talk) 17:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Mobile uploads had a number of specific issues which can't be compared, see above comment 08:24, 17 February 2015 (UTC). --Nemo 00:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Comment Our experiment in allowing the uploading of images from mobile devices was not successful because of the vast amount of junk uploads, and has been disabled. Many projects already suffer from almost-overwhelming spamming and junk edits from *desktop* unregistered users. I would suggest that if editing by unregistered users on mobile is enabled, it occur only as an *opt-in* following a well-documented discussion on individual projects. The ability of individual projects to manage increased problematic editing will vary significantly, dependent on availability of recent changes patrollers (or equivalent), the use of pending changes/flagged revisions, and other factors. Keep in mind that range blocks to manage serially problematic editing from mobile IP ranges may have a significant impact on *all* editing from those ranges and may actually have an overall negative effect on the number of edits being made through those ranges. Risker (talk) 17:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per -revi --Steinsplitter (talk) 17:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support Should be the norm. — Arkanosis ✉ 18:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose: Editing on mobile without breaking the syntax or page layout is already difficult enough if you've got the time to log in.    FDMS  4    21:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
@Nemo bis: My point is that typing and correcting typed text is often very time-consuming using a touchscreen keyboard, and I think that unregistered users are generally far less likely to spend that required amount of time. Not that desktop edits from unregistered accounts are equally likely not to require third-party copyediting as desktop edits from registered accounts, but mobile plus unregistered is just where I'd draw the line.    FDMS  4    23:15, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support. It makes no sense to require an account for mobile edits and not for desktop edits. Opraco (talk) 22:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support 'Anyone can edit' to promote Wikipedia. --Kumincir (talk) 04:02, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
  • It depends on which site.
    • For the majority of sites , I Support Support it. There shouldn't be any problem with allowing it , applying what we do for non-mobile devices in the event of vandalism.
    • For Commons , I Neutral Neutral it. While it is still useful(as mobile cameras are being better , photographs of landscapes or animals can now be added faster. But there are issues are this.
    • My previous benefit stated would only apply to high - top end mobile phones. I don't think adding photos from a cheap 2 MP or 3.2 MP basic phone would help.
    • And , as some other users would have stated , what about selfies and the like? If they are also uploaded to Commons and shared , it may end up being something like a photo-sharing website(contrary to what I think that Commons is the database for Wikimedia in images , correct me if I'm wrong).
  • I also have a few questions to this.
    • How would warnings be displayed to users through templates? I do not exactly know , myself using Wikibooks on Windows(laptop) , but these templates look quite small for a 12.5 cm device.
    • How would you make sure that users do not edit by mistake? Again , I do not know much about the experience on a mobile.

--Leaderboard (talk) 08:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

  • We're not talking about enabling uploading from mobile devices :) It's just about editing pages, if you want to use pictures you need to upload you still need the desktop site. So enabling editing will not enable uploads :)
for your second question: If you want to edit pages, you still need to "tap" the edit pencil (like "edit" link on desktop) to come to the editor, so there shouldn't much space to edit by mistake :) Templates, the other way, aren't visible in mobile (for logged in and logged out users), because we use our own editor. Hope that answers your questions :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 09:13, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Have you an example? I'm not sure, if we're talking about the same thing :) If you mean notification templates on a user's talk page after vandalism-edits were reverted: They will be visible and the user should see a notification, that there are new messages on the talk page. Is that, what you mean? --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 10:12, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
This argument seems to be not mobile specific, but i still can edit without logging in when i'm on desktop? --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 16:30, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
1. Anonymous users can still edit on mobile devices by switching to the desktop version (link at the bottom of every page). Editors that refuse to register, who take time to familiarize themselves with policy and know how to edit, will realize this.
2. With mobile IP addresses it is nearly impossible to block individuals, as the address changes every time the phone is turned on. enwiki almost IP blocked every single mobile device in a cell-phone company's mobile pool for this reason.
3. This is not the forum for this discussion. For consensus to be made, a global notice would need to go out to every project notifying them of a request for comment. Every project should make a consensus to make the change or keep the status quo.
Mamyles (talk) 19:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I vote for lifting the account requirement when a mobile user wants to edit. I went to the sandbox on an iPad: fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SANDBOX. I cliked on the pencil. I had only the choice between log in and create an account. Wikipedia is supposed to allow visitors to edit. Wikipedia even says that every visitor can modify the pages by clicking on Edit. This is not true. Not even for the sandbox! It would be nice to correct that. Thank you. --Nnemo (talk) 16:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose It should be left to the projects themselves. On a smaller wikipedia with few editors who are not daily (sometimes longer!) present like sw: (where I am active) quality control is a headache. The argument that we should be happy about any contribution and weed out later does not work. African languages struggle anyway to be taken serious on many topics against English/French; if the amount of bullshit goes higher respect goes down further.Kipala (talk) 21:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support fine by me. --Matiia (talk) 04:25, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Kusurija (talk) 11:55, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose Oppose Spam and Vandalism are bound to increase. Not to forget all the Selfies; rattled edits and pics.
Sorry Nemo to mention it here, but the fact apart from what I mentioned, is this will increase pressure which already prevails on reviewers and admins, bureaus, autos. Further it will give chance to the current vandals to mortify what and how they feel like. Basically ENJOY :( ... Vishal Bakhai - Works 00:34, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Questions

How about the official Wikipedia apps for smartphones? Do they require logging in to edit pages? One editor said somewhere the apps required registration an logging in to read pages, but that was maybe a misunderstanding. I don't own a sufficiently smart mobile phone to investigate this myself :-/ /NH 14:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

You don't need an account to edit or read contents in Wikipedia apps, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&hideliu=1&tagfilter=mobile app edit --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 14:16, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


Is there another step to protect pages for mobile edits? Because there is a need to make different protection level for mobiles.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 14:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Why should a page be not editable by mobile, but for desktop users? --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 15:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Because, on hiwiki, I saw that in comparison to desktop, mobile user does more vandalism. (this is relative comparison.)☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 15:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
That might even be because they are forced to login. :) Seems a paradox, I know, but past research shows that can reduce average productivity. Either way, better not trust intuition for such things. --Nemo 00:06, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
As far as i know: MobileFrontend will not introduce new rights or protection levels (i know one, who maybe like this @MZMcBride: :)). The goal should be to make mobile more like desktop (minimize special handlings from MobileFrontend and not increase them :)) and "just make MobileFrontend a mobile view", not a mediawiki inside mediawiki (if you understand, what i mean :P) :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 06:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

If enabling anonymous editing generates lots of spam and strain on our existing users, how will we respond to this? To be clear the core mobile web development team is currently oversubscribed with various pieces of work and cannot spend time code reviewing/improving interfaces to reduce vandalism so we would be leaning heavily on support from existing tools such as AbuseFilter. In this worse case scenario would we simply turn off anonymous editing or do you have a team of developers familiar with MobileFrontend to improve the interface to support this initiative? I agree it should be enabled but this is the reason it is currently disabled. If the former can we clarify how we would measure success of anonymous editing on mobile and under what conditions we would switch this off? Jdlrobson (talk) 19:29, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Configuration changes will be evaluated in the usual ways: we have statistics, especially Wikistats, for all languages, and users with specific insight on the area/wiki they watch; users discuss locally and globally; if a local or global consensus emerges on an interpretation of the data/conclusion, a configuration change request is made. There's nothing new here: we evaluate fluctuations of various activities, as well as extensions like FlaggedRevs and AbuseFilter or counter-vandalism tools, continuously. --Nemo 06:44, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Today I'll be offline all day long, so if someone else wants to wrap this up don't be shy. --Nemo 06:44, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Who has ruled to leave out mobile user?! (generally and on it.wikipedia) And what does it mean?!

Putting it simply: Why we do not discuss the other way round? (Wheather forbide mobile user from editing). And what does it means? (Who is a "mobile user?" An user with a large tablet connected thtrough a home wi-fi is "mobile" or not, just as an example?)

Who has ruled to leave out mobile user?! As far as I know no one at it.Wikipedia knows who has rouled this (A sharp exeption from the "WMF projects are editable by everybody" standard). Can oneone set to ban out Mac users? Or left handed users? Or blind users who use screenreader? Or poor English skilled user (as me, for example)? Or typo making user (as me again, even when I owned a desktop PC).

Fhurthermore, I just need to find out that I should switch to "desktop" mode using the link at the bottom of every page. So it's more an obstacle than a ban. And so it's even more a no sense.

it.Wikipedia has setted to leave out this ban, but I can not edit there in mobile mode, and no one can explain. (I don't wheather editing worked for a while and then removed again, or it was never granted.)--2.225.72.22 20:15, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Indeed the disabling was never discussed: this discussion fixed that.
As for it.wiki, that's a bug: phabricator:T91372. Can you check if purging the page helps, and tell us more about your tests (what page or pages did not work, what you saw exactly, what's your device and browser)? Thanks, Nemo 20:39, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
So not being able to edit by mobile users (whatever "mobile" means) is more a bug than a choice?
I do not know how to do a purge in mobile version (this is not easy and user friendly in desktop version too).
Anyhow I was able to start editing at it.wikipedia but not to save! The page that looked like a request to login actually has choice to edit without login in. But when I was ready to save, I see only a "Next" button ("Successivo" in italian) at top-right corner, which actually does nirthing at all.
Article page is w:it:gettone (token). My smartphone is Samsung with Andoid Kitkat, default Android browser.
Thanks. After your report here I had managed to reproduce the error and filed it at phabricator:T94419. I'll add your information there. --Nemo 19:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC) P.s.: They already fixed it, the fix will go live tomorrow evening.
Hi, sorry for This confusion. But to be clear (from my Point of View): i think, that "not-able-to-edit-from-mobile-as-not-logged-in-user" is a bug, but there were good reasons to implement this, technical reasons. Unfortunately that results in the problem, that we're, in fact, implementing new features to the editor to cover anonymous editing and are still working on the best design and implementation in mobile fronent, which can result in problems like this one. But with your help (big thanks to @Nemo bis: here, who always report problems and is helpful in resolving them!) we can improve editing on mobile for all users :) thanks A mobile volunteer --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 19:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Pre-per-wiki exceptions

The list below tries to show wikis (or better: (some) users of these wikis), who requested to except these wikis from enabling IP-editing in MobileFrontend (aka mobile view), if enabling should be the global default. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 06:34 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Deleted

I removed the list because it would be confusing. The violation of standard permissions never gained local consensus and can't be affirmed by individual users. As for "pre-per-wiki exceptions", local wikis can express a local wish with the usual process for Requesting wiki configuration changes. In other words, this list must be kept in Phabricator tickets with associated consensus.
Such requests will be dealt with all together and together with the (probable) request coming out of this discussion. There is one month to achieve local consensus and file tickets, it should be enough: if some policy requires more time in your wiki, let's adjust timings. --Nemo 07:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing me to the Requesting wiki configuration changes-page :) I totally agree with this process (and like you explained), my list was just because it seems (at least in my personal understanding of some discussions here) that some wikis want to pre-opt-out :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 09:44, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

The Simple English Wikipedia needs your help!

Latest comment: 9 years ago6 comments5 people in discussion

For those who don't know, the Simple English Wikipedia is a Wikipedia that attempts to use simpler English to allow readability by children and those who are learning the language. The wiki can be found here. Flicking through the page index, you will see that most of our articles are in need of expansion, which we strive to improve. (you can also see that we are also lacking many articles) Unfortunately, we only have a handful of active editors, most of them being admins. We have three sister projects, although two (Wikibooks and Wikiquote) are closed, and one (Wiktionary) is currently inactive.

We are therefore seeking active editors who wish to contribute in any area, we welcome any new editors that wish to contribute positively and constructively. If we don't have a policy, we follow the English Wikipedia by default. If you have any questions, feel free to ask at our village pump (dubbed Simple Talk) or join us on #wikipedia-simpleconnect! Regards, Caliburn (talk) 17:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC) (on behalf of the Simple community).

Has the number of FAs (or as simplewiki calls them, "VGAs") improved significantly over the last 3 years? PiRSquared17 (talk) 19:31, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Not sure, we've had two successful VGAs in the last two years, which isn't much at all to be honest. Caliburn (talk) 07:45, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The problem with Simple Wikipedia is that the content overlaps with what Wikipedia provides for. Since it is more popular , that's where most editors edit , not here. Also , Wikipedia is not much more complex than what Simple Wikipedia has. --Leaderboard (talk) 18:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I've spent some time editing at Simple English, and I find that it is very different. The differences are less evident when comparing 'translations' of en.wp articles (although w:en:Saturn and the much shorter w:simple:Saturn, both Featured status, show significant differences). One of the things that is most interesting is how little information is present. It's an open field. Articles on vital subjects are frequently inadequate. For example, simple:Dentistry is eight sentences. simple:Headache has a few paragraphs. There is so much work to be done. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:20, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I've edited there myself although not in a while and I agree its a lot different. Its more directed at people who don't necessarily speak English as a primary language or maybe are kids who are still learning English. Personally I didn't have a problem with most of the people there but some editors were the same ones that I found problematic at the ENWP so I stopped. Maybe I'll stop by and do a few edits myself. Reguyla (talk) 18:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Not Notable Articles

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Please remove all page linked to d:Q3240863, it's about User:Rachitrali and are made by his account and his sockpuppets. Also someone delete incubator:Wp/khw/امیدو بلوٹی, it's about incubator:User:Fidaaliadif. Mjbmr (discussion • contribs) 00:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

You will have to post these requests on the relevant wikis. See, for example, incubator:Template:Delete and "Template:Delete" on the various Wikipedias linked to from that Wikidata item. Steward requests/Miscellaneous can be used for deletion requests on wikis that have no admins (check "Special:ListUsers/sysop" on a wiki to see if it has admins). Note that you will likely have to provide more evidence (with links) than you have done here to get these pages deleted (don't provide the additional evidence here, only in your requests at the other wikis). - dcljr (talk) 05:28, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Question: How is pending changes implemented?

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Just wanted to know... 010FiftyMan (talk) 23:48, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

@010FiftyMan: See the extension FlaggedRevs' help page. -24Talk 23:57, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

use the wikikipedia site to create legislation

Latest comment: 9 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Why not create legislation out in the open on line. This would let the best and the brightest figure out the best path for the American people and legislatures can vote up or down. This idea came to me after reading of the success of wikipedia in Isaacson's book The Innovators followed by America's Bitter Pill which shows all the perils of our current system. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.107.13.40 (talk) 16:27, 6 April 2015

Hello. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia isn't the right place for this. However, you might be interested in the following links:
guillom 16:37, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Wikimedia may be hosted in the US but a large proportion of users are from outside the US. What you are proposing is political advocacy, which is something better served on a dedicated wiki, rather than educationally-oriented websites. Have a look at mw:Sites using MediaWiki/en and perhaps mw:Download. Green Giant (talk) 21:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Same opinion as Green Giant, just create your own Wiki, Wikipedia does not serve such purpose for political advocacy.--AldNonymousBicara? 17:03, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Stewards confirmation rules

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello, I made a proposal on Meta to change the rules for the steward confirmations. Currently consensus to remove is required for a steward to lose his status, however I think it's fairer to the community if every steward needed the consensus to keep. As this is an issue that affects all WMF wikis, I'm sending this notification to let people know & be able to participate. Best regards, --MF-W 16:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Artifical increase in statistics of Romanian Wikipedia

Latest comment: 9 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Here one can find that Romanian Wikipedia added 53% of its popularity (number of page views) last month.

But here one can find most visited pages on Romanian Wikipedia this month

  1. 1 (183 576 views)
  2. 2 (183 470 views)
  3. 6 (183 463 views)
  4. 5 (183 462 views)
  5. 8 (183 456 views)
  6. 4 (183 453 views)
  7. 7 (183 449 views)
  8. 3 (183 446 views)
  9. 9 (183 435 views)
  10. Zero (dezambiguizare) (183 432 views)

Strange. Is not it?

How to fight the artifical increase in the most important Wikipedia statistics? --Perohanych (talk) 04:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Research talk:Page view/Archive 1#To identify spider traffic. --Nemo 08:19, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The dayly artifical increase in statistics of Romanian Wikipedia continues to exist :-( --Perohanych (talk) 08:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

unified login headache

Latest comment: 9 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I had the same username but different passwords on a few wikimedia sites, but now none of them works any more. what to do? Okay, I can do the recovery process with my email, but if i change the password on one page, will it be that one on all pages after? how exactly does this work?

What is your username? Ruslik (talk) 20:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
When you change your password, the password will change everywhere (actually, with unified login there are no longer a dozen passwords but a single one, which is the one you changed). Your global account will now be using the password you had on your 'home' wiki (you can view at Special:CentralAuth which wiki the software considered your home wiki). Platonides (talk) 20:40, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah, Special:CentralAuth is useful, so I found out my home wiki is the German wikipedia. There is a capitalization of the Username in the German wikipedia, but that doesn't seem to matter. However my password there wasn't working either so I have made a new one with the password reset by email function. thanks. --Panoramedia (talk) 11:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Help needed on Hindi Wikipedia

Latest comment: 9 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

Hello. I would like to draw your attention on a difficulty faced by Hindi Wikipedia. The following is the list of the IPs that are indulging in this activity of creating pages on Hindi wikipedia in Nepali language since the last two days:

  • 49.126.0.31
  • 49.126.0.38
  • 49.126.0.39
  • 49.126.0.36
  • 49.126.0.34
  • 49.126.0.42
  • 49.126.0.32

Here is the Village Pump discussion on the issue . Part of the discussion within the section referred here might be comprehensible to anyone as its in English.

We have eight admins on Hindi Wikipedia. Unfortunately, seven are unavailable since past some time and lone active admin examined the issue this morning with a promise that he'll block IPs if further mischief takes place. Messy things have happened. But unfortunately he isn't available. Please help Hindi Wikipedia by blocking these mischievous IPs. --Muzammil (talk) 16:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Try SRM. Glaisher (talk) 16:23, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
You can just block the 49.126.0.31/26 range. Ruslik (talk) 18:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Already actioned by me on SRM, regards.--AldNonymousBicara? 18:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Message Translation

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I've translated. Transfer please. --Дагиров Умар (talk) 12:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Nominations are being accepted for 2015 Wikimedia Foundation elections

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This is a message from the 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee. Translations are available.

Greetings,

I am pleased to announce that nominations are now being accepted for the 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections. This year the Board and the FDC Staff are looking for a diverse set of candidates from regions and projects that are traditionally under-represented on the board and in the movement as well as candidates with experience in technology, product or finance. To this end they have published letters describing what they think is needed and, recognizing that those who know the community the best are the community themselves, the election committee is accepting nominations for community members you think should run and will reach out to those nominated to provide them with information about the job and the election process.

This year, elections are being held for the following roles:

Board of Trustees
The Board of Trustees is the decision-making body that is ultimately responsible for the long term sustainability of the Foundation, so we value wide input into its selection. There are three positions being filled. More information about this role can be found at the board elections page.

Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC)
The Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC) makes recommendations about how to allocate Wikimedia movement funds to eligible entities. There are five positions being filled. More information about this role can be found at the FDC elections page.

Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC) Ombud
The FDC Ombud receives complaints and feedback about the FDC process, investigates complaints at the request of the Board of Trustees, and summarizes the investigations and feedback for the Board of Trustees on an annual basis. One position is being filled. More information about this role can be found at the FDC Ombudsperson elections page.

The candidacy submission phase lasts from 00:00 UTC April 20 to 23:59 UTC May 5 for the Board and from 00:00 UTCApril 20 to 23:59 UTC April 30 for the FDC and FDC Ombudsperson. This year, we are accepting both self-nominations and nominations of others. More information on this election and the nomination process can be found on the 2015 Wikimedia elections page on Meta-Wiki.

Please feel free to post a note about the election on your project's village pump. Any questions related to the election can be posted on the talk page on Meta, or sent to the election committee's mailing list, board-elections -at- wikimedia.org

On behalf of the Elections Committee,
-Gregory Varnum (User:Varnent)
Coordinator, 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee

Posted by the MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of the 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee, 05:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC) • Translate • Get help

Sudden changes of numbers of articles

Latest comment: 9 years ago9 comments5 people in discussion

Today many Wikipedias experienced sudden changes of number of articles. For example, English Wikipedia has increased by 95,000 articles, Italian by 9100, Russian by 5600. German one has decreased by 29,000 articles. Does anybody know what is happening? — Ace111 (talk) 19:59, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes. --Nemo 20:02, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. A more detailed answer could contain a reference to phabricator:T68867. Your link for Wikistats says it is outdated. Where I can see an official article count for today? — Ace111 (talk) 20:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

It would be also nice to have a logbook somewhere for completeness. It should say something like: "29-03-2015 23:59 UTC - Article count of Russian Wikiquote has been replaced: 13205 --> 9979". — Ace111 (talk) 16:38, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

There kind of is, take a look here. There are a couple reports that give you some ideas about Article numbers. Reguyla (talk) 18:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
I am afraid there is nothing there about sudden changes. — Ace111 (talk) 15:07, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Reguyla meant that monthly (more or less) article counts are archived there. Twice-daily (usually) counts are "archived" in the page history of List of Wikipedias/Table (as well as similar pages for the other projects). And finally, I run my own off-wiki script daily (sometimes less) to check for "milestone" changes (e.g., passing 10,000 articles), which I then announce at Wikimedia News — but in that case I almost never announce the actual before and after counts. I don't think the article-counting script itself actually logs its changes anywhere. Perhaps you could open a Phabricator task requesting that feature. - dcljr (talk) 04:19, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Ace111 please notice that for itwiki, we have maintgraph, and we monitor the number of all pages of all namespaces. Something similar should be possible for other wikis as well.--Alexmar983 (talk) 02:02, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
We in ruwiki also have some means to monitor the numbers. However, there is still a problem of sudden changes from unknown reasons. For example, in some days of this April, there were some drops of the numbers of articles in enwiki, but there were not large deletions of articles in the log. How to find the reasons of these drops? - Ace111 (talk) 23:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Using personal data of a Wikimedian to publish information about namesakes

Latest comment: 9 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Dear coleagues, we, in the Czech Wikimedia community, have to deal with a situation when several editors [E] entered controversial information in several articles. These were well sourced information about real-world people, which isolated wouldn't constitute any problem, if they were not of the namesakes of our specific pseudonymic Wikimedian [PW]. To make it clear I repeat: They were not about the Wikimedain [PW] himself/herself, they were about his real-world namesake (with the name being the real, civil name, not the Wikimedia user name). The editors [E] knew the civil identity of the Wikimedian [PW] from various, out-of-Wikimedia-projects sources, maybe even from the PW himself, and they used the identity to identify the coincidence of names; while the Wikimedian [PW] tried hard to keep his identity away from being published and disseminated over the Wikimedia projects.

Do you think this kind of behavior is correct or disruptive? How would you deal with that? Have you ever experienced something similar? Are there any policies - Wikimedia-wide or project-specific - that deal with that? Thanks a lot. --Okino (talk) 17:35, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

I want to express my thanks to Okino for starting this topic here on Meta. But I think there might be some issues that are described quite unclearly, so I'll try to describe the situation without being politically correct.
The issue is, that several editors [E] abused the knowledge of another user's [PW] civil name to repeatedly harass them while not actually revealing their identity. I actually know about at least one other user, whose civil name was used in similar way. Both of them edit strictly under pseudonym and in the past they expressed they do not wish their civil name to be used in any way. [E] have been taking advantage of the fact that there is no defence for [PW] witout actually revealing their identity. One of [E] confirmed he was doing it for fun.
At the moment it seems we are moving to the stalemate, one group expresses their opinion that such behavior is intolerable while the other say, that [E] did not break any rule and PW might have deserved it. There is only small community there so I can't see a breakthrough without external opinion to this issue. I myself can't imagine I could work on the same project with the people I know are able to do such thing with confidential information. --Reaperman (talk) 19:45, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
I remember something about this kind of issue, I'd need to evaluate the actual case by myself but I already underline outing *is bad*. --Vituzzu (talk) 15:18, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Effort to promote propaganda / ideology

Latest comment: 9 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

This is with regard to newly created user account 20 anniversarier. This user has prepared a draft Fall of Srebrenica which he wants to see as an article on 30 Wikis. See: global contribs. The aim appears to be create a parallel/ conflicting writeup to English Wikipedia article. On every Wiki, this user creates this writeup in userpage / sandbox and asks the community on village pump or community portal to create their own local version of the article. Request to please stop this propagation agenda.--Muzammil (talk) 12:36, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Muzammil I too have seen this message in our village pump and sandbox in our telugu wikipedia, I didn't go through the information though. Is it a partial view of something? --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 06:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Here is a much clearer followup post on Hindi Wikipedia:

For years, English Wikipedia was occupied by serbophobs. Srebrenica massacre is absolutely false and based on anti-Serbian propaganda. Check sources before you blindly copy articles from en.wiki please. 20 anniversarier (वार्ता) 01:21, 20 अप्रैल 2015 (UTC)

Here is a 15-page Human Rights Watch report of the same event: http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/10/15/fall-srebrenica-and-failure-un-peacekeeping Is the attempt to change the tone on non-English Wikis with a diagonally opposite view elsewhere not an effort to write history differently? --Muzammil (talk) 07:27, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

IMO it's a crosswiki spam.--AldNonymousBicara? 09:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Dear AldNonymous, a very sincere and dedicated contributor on Hindi Wikipedia had just volunteered to translate the propagation stuff on Hindi Wikipedia. I've informed him about the propaganda aspect. I request you please:
  1. Post a mass-message delivery on each of the pages where this user has asked for volunteer translation.
  2. Check on Wikidata for articles with the description "Fall of Srebrenica", "Fall of Srebrenica and Žepa", "Victory of Srebrenica".
  3. Any other check mechanism which you can suggest to counter this "crosswiki spam". --Muzammil (talk) 18:06, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
@Hindustanilanguage: You can place {{delete|crosswiki spam}} on the page he created crosswikis so local sysops can delete it, on wiki with no local sysops, stewards and global sysops will handle it. It's not even on local language, and he post Youtube propaganda videos crosswikis.--AldNonymousBicara? 05:57, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I've locked this account and deleted most of pages. --Vituzzu (talk) 15:32, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. --Muzammil (talk) 20:49, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Is the Wikimedia Foundation changing its goals?

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm just curious, because looking at the way some things are being processed, I see hints of a possibility of this. Tharthan (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Requests for comments on Wikimedia user groups approval process and agreements

This is an update from the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee. Translations are available.

The Wikimedia Affiliations Committee is requesting comments on the approval process and agreements for Wikimedia user groups.

Wikimedia user groups are groups of Wikimedia users who support and promote the Wikimedia projects in the offline world by organizing meetups and other projects. The Wikimedia Affiliations Committee's responsibilities include approval of new Wikimedia user groups.

The committee will seek community input until Friday, May 1, 2015. The committee will then review the community's input, and publish the new process and agreements on Meta-Wiki. The committee will again seek community input approximately six months after any changes are adopted to gauge effectiveness and if any additional changes are necessary.

Please see the RFC page on Meta-Wiki for more information and to provide feedback.

Thank you - Wikimedia Affiliations Committee

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of the Affiliations Committee, 04:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC) • Translate • Get help • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

About users Seskfabrega & Դավիթ Սարոյան or SusikMkr possible contacts

Latest comment: 9 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Please ascertain if Seskfabrega & Դավիթ Սարոյան or SusikMkr have a contact. In Facebook Seskfabrega & SusikMkr has friends. In Armenian Wikipedia Seskfabrega have 10 accounts, but his last account: Seskfabrega not blocked. Plus user Դավիթ Սարոյան says: "Նորայրը ոչ մեկին չի ուղղորդում դա հաստատ" ("No someone will guidance by Norayr (Seskfabrega) this sure"), whom 6AND5 reply: "Ես չասեցի, որ ուղղորդում է, այլ ասեցի, որ հնարավոր է իրեն ուղղորդեն..." ("I not say which guidance by Norayr, I say possible guidance to Norayr..."), whom Դավիթ Սարոյան reply: "Վրիպակ եմ արել, նկատի ունեի, որ նրան ոչ ոք չի ուղղորդում:" ("I write wrong, I meant, which no someone will guidance to Norayr"), whom 6AND5 reply: "Ո՞նց կարելի մի մարդու մասին ասել հաստատ, որին չես ճանաչում կամ մաքսիմում մեկ-երկու անգամ հեռախոսով խոսացած լինեք, անգամ ծանոթ մարդկանց վրա չի կարելի է 100 տոկոս վստահ լինել, մնաց անծանոթ մարդկանց.." ("How about someone say sure, whom you don't know or maximum you few times be spoken by phone with his, even people know you can not be 100% sure, alone unknown people..")[1]. --Դեմ խմբակային իշխանությանը (Vadgt's user page Vadgt's talk page) 14:56, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

This page is not the right place to request this. You should head to Steward requests/Checkuser and follow the instructions over there. Requests will only be accepted to fight vandalism and prevent abuse, so you must explain why do you believe both accounts are related and, if so, why the use of multiple accounts constitutes an abuse. Please note that multiple accounts are not forbbiden unless abused. If a block can be justified without the need to use technical evidence, then the checkuser is neither necessary nor appropriate. Hope that this answers your questions Դեմ խմբակային իշխանությանը. -- M\A 16:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
this Checkuser request. --Դեմ խմբակային իշխանությանը (Vadgt's user page Vadgt's talk page) 16:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

this new request. --Դեմ խմբակային իշխանությանը (talk) 17:16, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

The fundraising banner and blocked IP's

Latest comment: 9 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Greetings all, I think we should not be displaying the fundraising banner on blocked IP's as is currently being done. Not only does this invite blocked Ip's to edit, its also poor form to ask for money from people who are not allowed to edit the site for whatever reason. Now of course a logged in person can disable the banners, blocked or otherwise, but blocked IP's continue to see the banner every time someone uses it. I just don't think we should be doing this. Reguyla (talk) 13:12, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

But IPs ownership change hand overtime, the previous owner/offender may no longer use that IP.--AldNonymousBicara? 13:16, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Then we should periodically unlock them don't you think? Rather than indefinitely block an account that everyone knows can change so the new owners can edit and contribute? A lot of the IP's are proxies and a lot are range blocks affecting large groups of IP's and computers (like the Chicago public library system and a lot of High Schools and Colleges). If we do not want them to edit, then we shouldn't be asking for their money and we should not be inviting them to edit if they are blocked and cannot be trusted. It just seems rude, insulting and poor behavior on our part and IMO its something that could be fixed relatively easily. Reguyla (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Noone ever blocking IPs indefinitely that would be wrong, at most you can only block IP for 2 years for a serious problematic behaviour like LTA Open Proxy, but that's all.--AldNonymousBicara? 06:30, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
That may be so, but on the English Wikipedia at least there are a lot of accounts and IP's that have been blocked for years. In some cases they might just reblock it immediately, but it still works out the same way. I just don't think we should be targeting them for donations if the community says that they can't edit. Reguyla (talk) 11:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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