- GFBiochemicals (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)
Article asserted that one if its co-founders is a notable footballer, Mathieu Flamini, which I believe to be a credible claim of significance. A Google search backed this up and provided quite a few reliable secondary sources, which proves that such a claim does indeed have a chance of establishing notability. Despite this, some people have said it isn't because of WP:NOTINHERITED, which doesn't even apply to A7 because A7 isn't about notability. Even the deleting admin admitted there's a possibility of notability, which defeats the whole purpose of A7 anyway. I removed the A7 tag but it was deleted anyway. Adam9007 (talk) 22:52, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Adam9007 is correct to not that policy entitles him to insist that the page be undeleted, taken to AfD, where it will be deleted. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:52, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- 1) That discussion was not a deletion review. 2) Nothing happened either there or when discussing it with the deleting admin. DRV states "If you and the admin cannot work out a satisfactory solution, only then should you bring the matter before Deletion review", so I don't see anything wrong here. I have waited patiently for about 2 weeks and nothing. Adam9007 (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Undelete and list at AfD as a reasonable contest of a speedy. True, it should not have been speedied as the tag was removed. The purpose of AfD is not just to decide whether to delete, but as a possible educational exercise for all involved. It is clear that the discussion is needed. At AfD. Speedy undelete and list at AfD. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:06, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Undelete and list at AfD to discuss this further. Else, undelete and move to draftspace for a possible draft but I think that's just process wonkery. Note that this was created in November 2015 and A7 then and this version was around for twelve hours before its deletion. A fair chance is fair. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:45, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- This (and the thread at WT:CSD) is process wonkery solely for the sake of process wonkery. Endorse. It would have taken under a minute to create an unspeedyable stub that contained an actual assertion of significance, merely by copying what's already in Mathieu Flamini#Business Career. Anyone can still do so at any time. —Cryptic 06:28, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It may be unspeediable, but Wikipedia:Notability_(organizations_and_companies)#No_inherited_notability looks like it was written for this sort of thing. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:50, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It was written for the sort of thing that was speedied. The article that was speedied didn't assert any more significance than one reading "GFBiochemicals is a company." Having a notable founder isn't asserting significance. (Certainly not when his notability is in a field entirely unconnected to the company; it might be murkier for, say, a sports supplies company.) Neither is specializing in a particular chemical. But citing significant third-party coverage would be—even when some of the coverage was clearly written because of the company's founder, as evidenced by it appearing in the sports section—and so would claiming that it's the world leader in a particular chemical. The section at Mathieu Flamini does both; the deleted article did neither. —Cryptic 08:49, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't understand significance. It means the subject has a possibility of being notable. Having a notable founder gives it a possibility. Adam9007 (talk) 12:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- You clearly don't understand A7; is is not about whether the subject is notable or not; it's about whether it may be notable or not. There's a difference. Whether is actually is notable or not is for the community to decide. WP:NOTINHERITED does not apply to A7. Adam9007 (talk) 12:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse original deletion, Restore article. Looking at the timeline of the article, here is what I think happened. Adam9007 opens up the article to evaluate it. RHaworth opens up article to evaluate it. Adam9007 decides there is a credible claim to significance, removes the speedy deletion tag and adds maintenance tags in two consecutive edits. RHaworth decides there is no credible claim to significance and deletes the article without ever knowing the speedy deletion tag has been removed. I personally agree with RHaworth that the content in the article does not present a credible claim to significance. All admins are asked to do is look at what the article says and evaluate if there is a credible claim to significance, we are not asked to do Google searches, just evaluate the article as written. I believe RHaworth did that, So endorse the original deletion. The article should be restored though or just as easily recreated as additional information, (contested deletion) came to light after the deletion. Adam9007 says that RHaworth said that the company might be notable and that defeats the whole purpose of A7 anyway. I disagree with that. The way we determine notability and credible claim to significance are two entirely different things. As I said earlier, Credible claim to significance is determined based on what is written in the article. Notability is determined based on what reliable sources say about the subject. If someone came across an article that said:
- Stanley Andrzejewski was born in Chicago, Illinois. He acted on stage.
- Is there a credible claim to significance in that article, No. Might he be notable, Yes. These two questions are not necessarily related. An article can have a credible claim to significance and not be about a notable subject but an article might not have a credible claim to significance and be about a notable subject. An article that was written like my example is speedy deleteable and would be deleted by any admin. Any article we delete could be about a notable subject (see this), but that is not what A7 is about. -- GB fan 10:44, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- If it might be notable, it fails A7's spirit, even if it meets the letter (which I don't believe this did). Several months ago I was told to go for the spirit rather than the letter, but here you're telling me to do the opposite. No wonder I'm confused when I'm being given such conflicting and contradicting advice all the time. Adam9007 (talk) 12:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse A7 One of the founders being a notable footballer would be a claim of significance in a football-related article, but not for one about a biochemical company. DGG ( talk ) 13:55, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn A7 Guys, there are lots of sources because he's a footballer. Which is, I grant you, stupid. But [1], [2], [3] are from Metro, USA-today, and the Daily Mail. [4] are a bunch of articles that are probably regurgitated press releases. It's not clearly above the WP:N bar, but I think it has a really strong case. Such an article should not be speedied. Hobit (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- How about we just make this discussion moot. I have created an article, GF Biochemicals, that makes a clear case for significance if not notability. This was simpler than my comment above. -- GB fan 19:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Nice. Hobit (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I've expanded the article slightly and added more, what I hope are, claims of significance. Least I could do given my behaviour. Withdraw. Adam9007 (talk) 20:48, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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