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Nominator's rational These are meant to group people who were subjects of/nationals of the Ottoman Empire. The current name could be interpreted to mean the things they painted were the Ottoman Empire. While this might seem an odd interpretation, some might thing this would be meant for painters from other countries who came to the Ottoman Empire and painted subjects there, or even painters elsewhere both by place and time who represent the Ottoman Empire in their painters, be they a 19th-century painter who never left London but still painted subjects in the Ottoman Empire, a 21st-century Turkish painter who creates paintings to stir Turkish hearts to the glory days when they ruled half the known world, or a 21st-century Korean painter who creates paintings set in the Ottoman Empire for reasons that we cannot quite fathom from the sources even though he is remote from the Empire in almost every conceivable way. The new names will make it clear that these people need to be nationals of/subjects of the place as used in by nationality categories. We could have a painter who was born in Bristol, Chicago, Moscow or Paris in the category, but only if their residence in the Ottoman Empire made them connected to it in a way that we would likewise class that person as an Astralian painter if they worked and painted in Sydney, a Brazilian painter if they worked and painted in Forteleza or Manaus, or a Kenyan painter if they worked and painted in Nairobi.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It was also a nationality, in that people were Ottoman subjects vs. having Russian, Iranian, or some other nationality. (t · c) buidhe08:11, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale of the 4 entries in this article, only 2 seem to have been subjects of the Ottoman Empire. The other two are an Italian and a French/German person who came and did painting at the Ottoman Court, but do not seem to have been subject/nationals of the Ottoman Empire to a level we would general put them in a by nationality category. We have other court painter categories that are also named to indicate the people are being grouped by the court, not by nationality per se.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The proposal is based on an illogical understanding of the English language.
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Nominator's rationale This is a particularly poor formation. While thinking this means the thing invented was the Ottoman Empire is not that likely, it is probably the most obvious meaning here, and so a more clear name is warranted.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale When we say "inventors of", it makes it sound like the thing they invented is what is indicated. While reading this as "the people who formulated the concept of the Russian Empire and brought it into being" may not be expected, it still does seem a plausible reading, and since we have other categories that use the "from" form (assasins, geographers, historians and a few others) there is nothing wrong with using it here, where it will be clearer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:23, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale This is a truly confusing formation. We have Category:Explorers of Siberia and a whole tree above that by continent and other feature that are all about the places the people explored. This is not meant for people who exploered in the Russian Empire and its domains, but people who were nationals/subject/agents of the Russian Empire doing exploering. In this case we are trying to categorize by the place these people were subjects of/nationals of/agents for/etc. all of which can be summed up as "from". There are at least 3 other sub-cats of Category:Explorers by nationality that use the "from" form, and the only other sub-cats of the category that use the of form as far as I could tell are categories like Category:British explorers of the Pacific.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:19, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How is my understanding illogical when we actually have other categories that use the "of" in exactly the way I mention in the nomination. It is not an illogical understanding, it is an understanding that we use in many categories, including the Siberia one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:38, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Sculptors of the Russian Empire, Illustrators of the Russian Empire etc
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Delete as currently applied it is totally wrong. While I would not be shocked if some filmmaker in Jamaica at some point may have made some film that was not in English, this is not going to be common, and in cases where we have over-whelming overlap such by language categories lead to clutter.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:40, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep I would argue that target articles are not “adequately grouped” in any way which indicates that they contain content explicitly pertaining to state-level treasurer elections. This categorization helps users easily locate content on this project pertaining to treasurer elections for these particular states. Additionally, many of these redirects are easily able to be expanded upon and spun into independent articles. WITHOUT these cats, it could take anyone great time (searching through 50 states year by year) to determine which states have such non spun-off content pertaining to individual state treasurer races and for which years. The removal of this category, therefore, would negatively impact the navigability of this project. SecretName101 (talk) 18:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - agree with SecretName101. Useful redirects such as these should be categorised just the same as individual articles. Oculi (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between categories explicitly limited only to contain redirects, and one which currently only contains redirects, but can contain articles in the future as redirects are spun into articles or new articles are created under the category. Very very different. None of these cats being discussed are explicitly redirect-only. Many of them may contain articles in the near-future even. SecretName101 (talk) 20:08, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep these are useful for category tree consistency; and many of these redirects could be expanded into valid articles in the future. Deletion has no benefits here while keeping the categories does. Elli (talk | contribs) 22:53, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment (Category creator)how does it fail WP:USERCAT? Is it because i'm the only one in it? For sure after time there will be a few other people in the category. Lallint⟫⟫⟫Talk19:38, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It has nothing to do with the number of members. It has do to with not ha[ving] the capacity to facilitate coordination and collaboration between users for the improvement of the encyclopedia, on the grounds that creating a start-class article requires too little skill to be a useful basis for collaboration. * Pppery *it has begun...01:58, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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