Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian Far Eastern Republic

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 01:20, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ukrainian Far Eastern Republic

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There was no such a republic. The user's been pushing this mystification in Ukrainian Wikipedia for a quite long time now. There was indeed a cultural autonomy of Ukrainians in the Far Eastern Republic, but the sources provide no confirmation that the colony's independence was ~~even considered, let alone~~ established (or "self-proclaimed", as the article states). It was considered though Piramidion 15:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is an abstract of the second reference used in the article:

The Far Eastern Ukrainian Secretariat planned to hold a Far Eastern congress, which was to proclaim a Ukrainian state in the Far East known as Zelena Ukraina (Green Ukraine), but in November 1922 the Far Eastern Republic was occupied by the Red Army.
— Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine

--Piramidion 00:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as OR. Since from what I can tell a lot of it is either made up or only loosely based on historical facts. On the "were they an independent colony" question, there's no evidence that they were an officially recognized independent colony and a self-proclaimed one is rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Not that there's evidence they had self-proclaimed independence anyway. At least not from what I can tell. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:35, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:45, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:45, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, a POV fork of Green Ukraine. Loew Galitz (talk) 17:18, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Repurpose as Ukrainian Far Eastern Congress or merge into Green Ukraine (which currently dies not cover the same ground). The article appears to have sources, though not ones that I can read. Its tone and content is credible, as an element of the chaos following the collapse of the Russian Empire and the attempts of the White Russians to rescue something from the advance of Bolshevik forces. I lack the linguistic skills to tell if the sources support the content. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:01, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- There is nothing to "merge" or "repurpose, because it is 97% unreferenced and hence impossible to verify. Keeping in mind that some modern Ukrainians are on the quest to rewrite their history. The current Uk-wiki is horribly plagued by this, on par with croatian one. And this problem starts seeping in enwiki was well. E.g., some time ago I noticed efforts to delete historical Russian names from articles about Ukrainian towns. 18:20, 3 December 2021 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loew Galitz (talk • contribs)
  It does not "start", it is already full-scale here for several years. There are multiple users who are only rewriting here Ukrainian history in line with the government propaganda and not doing anything else.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:59, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  
  user:Loew Galitz, if there’s an inherent national characteristic of modern Ukrainians that makes them unsuitable as Wikipedia editors, then let’s start a conversation about it and figure out how to identify members of this troublesome species and keep them in their place. Or maybe please try to comment more thoughtfully. —Michael Z. 21:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Mzajac, your irony is misplaced. A while ago I saw a statement that ukrainian govt spearheaded an effort to "present Ukrainian point of view in Wikipedia" . If it is not a call for nation-wide POV pushing then I dont know. And since the government represents the people, then I cannt judge to what extent pov-pusing has become "national characteristic of modern ukrainians". Loew Galitz (talk) 18:57, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  
  Here you go: I googled "ukrainian point of view" wikipedia, and lo:Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-04-26/News_and_notes . "MFA Launches Ambitious Campaign To Enrich Wikipedia with Unbiased Information On Ukraine and the World" - Well, from what I know, "Unbiased Information On Ukraine" includes the statement that Stepan Bandera is a hero of Ukraine an not a Nazi collaborator and antiSemite.... Loew Galitz (talk) 19:19, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you should keep your own prejudices at bay and stop your insinuations right at this point. Being a Ukrainian myself, I'm offended by your derogatory attitude, both to Ukrainians, and to ukwiki editors. Ukwiki indeed has a lot of problems in this regard, but it's not as bad as you're trying to picture. --Piramidion 01:36, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

user:Loew Galitz, you made a broad, factually unsupportable, negative statement about “modern Ukrainians.” In my opinion it is completely unacceptable in any Wikipedia discussions. This talk page is subject to WP:ACDS. Please strike it out or delete it. —Michael Z. 04:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, sorry for overgeneralization. I changed to "some modern ukrainians". Loew Galitz (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Loew Galitz, I still object. Wikipedians do not register their passport, national identity, nor DNA test. Negative national stereotyping of broad groups is not useful nor helpful for this or any discussion. It only encourages a WP:BATTLEGROUND, based on you and other editors arbitrarily categorizing each other and associating your stereotypes with factual positions on article content. Please, lets not start naming the quests of some Russians, some Poles, some Jews, some Crimean Tatars, some Rusyns, and everyone else. Please just strike or delete that. —Michael Z. 21:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I will not. Ukrainian govrnment announced a concerted effort to edit wikipedia to their likes. This has nothing to do with "my stereotypes". It is a fact of grave concern for neutrality of Wikipedia. A while ago something similar happened with concerted editing of Wikipedia by Israelis and this was elevated to the level of Arbcom. Loew Galitz (talk) 21:24, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yet, User:Loew Galitz, I don’t see Arbcom posting notes on Israel-related discussions warning us to watch out for Israeli spies and fifth columnists, nor handing out leaflets on how to identify a Russki after Putin said Wikipedia was unreliable and ought to be replaced. I’m taking this to WP:ANI#Negative ethnic stereotyping by Loew Galitz. —Michael Z. 23:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as a POV fork.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:59, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Ukrainian Far Eastern movement or Ukrainian Far Eastern congresses (caps thus) per Peterkingiron, above, and clean up; or merge referenced material into Green Ukraine and Far Eastern Republic. There is a corresponding uk.wiki article, w:uk:Український далекосхідний рух (“Ukrainian Far Eastern movement”), which this appears to resemble (while this article’s corresponding w:uk: Далекосхідна Україна, “Far Eastern Ukraine,” is tagged for deletion). The Encyclopedia of Ukraine’s article “Far East” covers this subject in its “Organized Life” section, and also “Far Eastern Ukrainian congresses”. (Note: Far East is normally capitalized in English, so it should be capped in a common name.) —Michael Z. 20:52, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- I would support Ukrainian Far Eastern movement. My approach is to treat what is credible as if it is correct, even if not adequately referenced. The conflict between red and white Russians in the aftermath of WWI was chaotic and potential source material may well have been suppressed by the victors, so that I am not too worried by a dearth of references. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:54, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.