Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Soviet occupation of Ukraine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:21, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Soviet occupation of Ukraine

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A major POW content fork of the History of Ukraine. Also origibnal research of WP:SYNTH type, because Google gives close to no hits for the search term, with possible exceptions in the recent Ukrainian writings of the 21st century. Unlike Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, modern Ukraine started from the Ukrainian SSR, which emerged from the Russian Civil War, where it was split between Poland and Russia and where multiple proto-states were created and dissolved, and in fact Russia gave to it part of its territory to make comparable with the Polish part. Heck, Ukrainian SSR was one of the founding states which former the Soviet Union and the member of United Nations! Its economy was second in the Soviet Union after Russia. The only part of really Soviet occupation was grabbing parts of Ukraine from other countries after WWII: Soviet annexation of Eastern Galicia and Volhynia, etc. Lembit Staan (talk) 22:13, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know where this is copy pasted from? Is this POV article home at another Wiki?Moxy-

22:37, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I meant WP:CFORK. It looks like it is copied/pasted from numerous wikipedia articles, with twist. Lembit Staan (talk) 23:02, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, since that is essentially what this article is talking about. Also, I doubt Ukraine is really that "grateful" to Stalin. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:17, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I explained what it must be grateful for: without Staling there would have been no independent Ukraine: first, it was his politics of separate national republics, then he increased territory of Ukraine 3x. Without Stalin there would be one single Soviet Russian Empire, which would have probably would never collapsed (But this is alternative history :-). As for atrocities, all nations did have their skeletons in the cupboard. Lembit Staan (talk) 23:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The War in Crimea in 1918 has nothing to do with Ukraine because Crimea became part of Ukraine in 1954. The article implies that it's politically incorrect to refer to Ukraine as a former soviet republic, which is a clear violation of WP:NPOV. Dr.KBAHT (talk) 23:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per WP:NOR, and also because hosting revisionist bollocks which is clearly in breach of NPOV is also a stupid idea. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is just another copy-paste from Ukrainian Wikipedia by Jafaz. There is no reason for this article, it looks like a POV fork. Mellk (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment (I haven’t read the article yet.) The nomination makes a valid point about the article title. However, the nomination’s rhetorical style and a statement like “Ukraine must be grateful to Stalin” (is this from a reliable source, or wp:righting great wrongs that never happened?) are straight out of Russian propaganda, synthesized from disinformation or cherry-picked facts (in reality the Bolsheviks invaded the Ukrainian People’s Republic which had seceded from revolutionary Russia, then gave large tracts of Ukrainian ethnocultural territory to the Russian SFSR in 1919 and 1924). Please read the article and judge on its relative merits. —Michael Z. 01:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, I have stricken Stalin out. And I am not going to argue that most of Ukraine was Polish land grabbed by Russia and if ever Ukraine joins the European Union, it will be stricken with major restitution claims (Bug River claims), just like it happened in Baltic States. So if tis article stays, I will write one, Ukrainian occupation of Poland; there are plenty of nationalistic sources on this topic. Lembit Staan (talk) 02:02, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- As for "Bolsheviks nvaded", there were plenty of Bolsheviks in Ukraine or the own, who proclaimed the state and then "invited" "russian proletariat" to help them. Same nearly happened with Poland and Finland. And this strategy or overthrowing governments was common all the time all over the globe, not limited to bolsheviks. DO we have United States occupation of Panama or United States occupation of Lybia? Lembit Staan (talk) 02:11, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Dear, first there was the Ukrainian People's Republic, which was occupied by Soviet troops. The UkSSR was created by Moscow's proteges, and if there were Ukrainians, they were accused of "bourgeois nationalism" and killed in the 1930s. Russia has never ceded its territories to Ukraine, all modern borders are ethnic territories of Ukrainians. Moreover, Russia took away from Ukraine the districts of Belgorod Region and Don Region (especially the city of Taganrog). At the Paris Peace Conference, the UPR declared its claims to Crimea, and a whole successful operation was carried out. It was impossible not to mention. I will tell you more, Stalin wanted all "Soviet republics" to be in the UN for the sake of increasing influence. However, Western leaders only agreed with the BSSR and the UkSSR. This "second economy of the USSR" fed only neighboring countries and the RSFSR, while Ukrainians starved and then suffered from poverty. The statement that there would be no independent modern Ukraine without the USSR is as erroneous as possible, and all other statements are as pro-Russian propaganda as possible. The creators of Ukraine are Ukrainians, not the Soviet government, which committed a whole genocide of Ukrainians, which you call a "skeleton in a closet." I just can't wrap my head "We should be grateful to Stalin." Approximately such users require renaming, for example, the article "Russo-Ukrainian War" to "Russian military intervention in Ukraine" or "the Russo-Ukrainian conflict". If possible, they would call it the "Civil War in Ukraine." Or the same Soviet-Ukrainian War, which on Russian Wikipedia is called "Revolution and Civil War in Ukraine." Please take this into account. By the way, in the Template:Soviet occupation, Ukraine has long been mentioned only with reference to the Soviet-Ukrainian War. So far, this topic has not appeared on its own, as has the Soviet occupation of Romania. Jafaz (talk) 12:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, for the record, I did support the renaming to ru-uk war. Whatever you say, these arguments are not the reason to write out a complete POV-fork of the History of Ukraine. Lembit Staan (talk) 16:55, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Wikipedia is not a place for propaganda. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 14:57, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, a propaganda piece from a highly problematic user.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Yes, users with Russian native language on the page and the Armenian-Russian university talk about propaganda, because it contradicts their views. Um, then really the Russo-Ukrainian War should be renamed to the "Civil War on Ukraine." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.28.179.21 (talk • contribs) — 139.28.179.21 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Please do not comment on Wikipedians, only on articles. This is violation of our policy WP:NPA. Lembit Staan (talk) 19:43, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My education at the Russian-Armenian Univerisity has nothing to do with this article. Best regards, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete propaganda. Super Ψ Dro 20:38, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - occupation is an inherently POV term here. There were different Ukrainian factions, that contested for power. --Soman (talk) 21:14, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In fact, @Lembit Staan:'s messages are not neutral at all. For example, here. "An attempt to distatniate Uktraine from Russia as much as possible" - everything is obvious here, all this discussion is in Russian propaganda. I don't know if this discussion makes any sense at all, if its basis is now mostly people from the WikiProject Russia, for whom the Soviet occupation of the Baltic States was a common "accession," and for example the occupation of Romania was a "liberation.". No comments. (talk) 09:51, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Second warning If you continue attacking Wikipedians, you may be blocked from editing. Lembit Staan (talk) 21:33, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as POV fork.Anonimu (talk) 10:15, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The name itself seeks to push one particular POV.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Textbook case of POV fork.--Catlemur (talk) 16:53, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Utter tripe. Ghirla^-трёп- 20:42, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Rewrite (or Delete with WP:TNT...). What I think everyone is missing is that the topic is notable (but not in the matter of fact POV fork form that we have now). Just click the Google Scholar button. The phrase "Soviet occupation of Ukraine" is discussed in academic works related to Ukrainian historiography POV representing faction that includes scholars like Volodymyr Viatrovych. Their POV is a notable view, but of course, it should not be allowed to persist as a fringe POV fork. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:08, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The POV of Viatrovych and of whole of his Institute of National Memory (or whats its name) must be discussed only from the point of view of mainstream history as discussed in secondary sources, not added "as is" into Wikipedia. Lembit Staan (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:08, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:08, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to History of Ukraine. POV fork. - Sumanuil (talk) 06:48, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as POV fork. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:09, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The concerns raised about the article topic being one-sided appear to be legitimate, and thus the article satisfies the definition of a WP:POVFORK of e.g the history of Ukraine articles. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:11, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.