Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Normani Kordei

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Fifth Harmony. Purely on the numbers, this would be a no-consensus. However looking at the "Keep" opinions here, a lot of them are either based on the "other stuff exists" argument, or they are based on speculation of things that may occur in the future. No prejudice against recreation if and when she has established an independently notable solo career. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 01:15, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Normani Kordei

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No relevance aside from being a member of Fifth Harmony. All that little information fits on the group's article. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 04:21, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is quite relevant and will be in the future, she will be on Dancing With The Stars from March 20 onwards as a solo artist, the page is needed then for record of her performances, etc. So her account can stay unlike the other members though.

Katty368 (talk) 01:41, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I second this. We will need somewhere to keep record of her performance and scores. Those over at the DWTS articles always make sure all the celebrity contestants have Wikipedia pages ready before the season begins. CloudKade11 (talk) 23:53, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 04:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~Weak Keep~~(vote change further below) - I am typically a delete voter. There's too much "bloat" on WP. But, as said above, now that she is on DWTS, she is most likely going to be her own person. --- But I would much rather prefer that the page be redirected until AFTER she becomes notable. Not, "and will be in the future, she will be on". We don't own a crystal ball. We deal in the "here and now", not in future speculation. Kellymoat (talk) 14:59, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not necessarily see this as a weak keep, I mentioned this show will start on 20 March which is less than 17 days. So when it comes to keeping up her performance updates someone will have to make a whole new article which is very time consuming, competing on a huge reality show and being a member of a big girlgroup makes her relevant enough to have this page considering she will be engaging in more solo endeavors next.

Katty368 (talk) 02:51, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ALL articles have a large amount of "back data" that need written because we do not start articles until after someone is notable.

We do not create articles based on what could happen in the future. We only deal with the past. Kellymoat (talk) 12:08, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And as far as I am concerned, DWTS does not need a weekly breakdown. Her entire run can written as two sentences --- Kordei was on the 2017 season of DWTS. She was eliminated in the 3rd week. How much more does it need. Kellymoat (talk) 12:13, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly my thoughts. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 16:42, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DELETE - I convinced myself to change my vote. For all we know, every interview on DWTS is going to be about Little Mix. We MUST wait until AFTER she does something. Not before. Kellymoat (talk) 16:52, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Do you really think someone on a show that picks the contestants based on recognized NOTABILITY is not notable? GuzzyG (talk) 18:56, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

D-list celebrities that campaign to be on the show to get themselves some publicity.

Besides, her "notability" is from being a member of a group. A group that has a page. That doesn't mean that she has her own status outside of the group. Kellymoat (talk) 19:05, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wait who is Little Mix? Anyway I am still against the notion of the page being deleted, it's really not a big deal as far as I see. She is notable enough to have her page, I've seen many far less notable people having their own pages, so don't really see a page that has proper sources and everything being deleted.

Katty368 (talk) 05:52, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It turns out - Little Mix is not the all-girl group Nomandy is in. But really, that just demonstrates how non-notable any of them are (outside of their fanbase). Kellymoat (talk) 19:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Fifth Harmony: Not notable outside of being a member of the group. If she gains notability as a solo artist, then the article can be recreated. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:10, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:ENT #1: Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions [in this case, Fifth Harmony and DWTS] . The rules block Kordei because of being not "notable" out of the group. Now she's getting coverage for her role on a tv show which puts her over WP:GNG no matter how you slice it it is two events and anything else is guesswork and revisionism. Not to mention precedence, Camila Cabello got an article for quitting and for one song. Louis Tomlinson got one for a football stunt. Zayn Malik got one as soon as he quit. These famous boy bands/girl groups tend to be so famous that one thing outside of the band tends to get them their own articles, i see in this case no reason to break precedence. GuzzyG (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cabello got her article when she was in her second top 20 hit. Kordei hasn't announced a solo career, and there's a place for her little info on the group's article. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was involved in the Cabello chat, it was mainly the one song as it did not relate to the group just like this reality show does not. What place does the reality show have in the group article if it does not relate to the group? Group members do not get articles due to ONEEVENT, but this show creates a second event which means she passes GNG. GuzzyG (talk) 00:36, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The same place Lauren Jauregui's solo project have in the group article. Each of them have their subsections. We would create an article just for her DWTS scores? Cornerstonepicker (talk) 17:24, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well i would hope the guidelines were followed just for anything. If she is in a separate reality show that does not focus on the musical group from which she is from that creates two things which people know her from which means she passes WP:GNG. Laurens is one song as a featured artist which normally does not count. GuzzyG (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with the user above, way less relevant people in groups got their own articles when they had barely had a notable solo project, Kordei is going to be on a show watched by millions and part of a girl group known by millions, this makes her very relevant. Also I'm not at all convinced by the statement that the members are not known by the general public, one person not knowing the members does not make the the group or the members not notable to everyone else. Her article complies with the rules and therefore should not be deleted.

Katty368 (talk) 13:22, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947 05:12, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with everyone above who've argued to keep the page. Seeing as the members of Fifth Harmony are increasingly working on solo endeavors and with Normani in particular joining the cast of Dancing With The Stars, she will quickly be gaining notoriety as an individual, not just a girl group member, and there will need to be a section on her page dedicated to her time on DWTS. She also does a great deal of philanthropic work that could be placed on the page as well. She has more to her name than previous articles created for other band members with side projects. Stephaniehsueh (talk) 17:41, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But I will repeat myself -- DWTS hasn't happened yet. WP is not a crystal ball, it cannot tell the future. No one can have notability based on a show that hasn't aired. Kellymoat (talk) 18:20, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Fifth Harmony for the time being. She may gain more coverage in the future for her time on DWTS and other musical/dancing projects, but right now, a majority of her notability is tied up with Fifth Harmony. It is too soon to determine anything about her upcoming appearances on DWTS, and comparisons with other articles on other "less-notable" people is not a strong argument to keep this. I can see this article being created sometime down the line, but it is not warranted right now in my opinion. Aoba47 (talk) 18:56, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Dance-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 08:51, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I sympathize with some of the 'delete' arguments -- our standards of inclusion for entertainment figures are ridiculously low. But the fact remains that every contestant in the first 23 seasons of this show has their own article, and that fact itself is a strong argument for inclusion here. As for the observation that the current season hasn't actually started yet, that isn't a persuasive argument. Many areas of Wikipedia embrace the notion of a "Future" class of articles, under which articles can be created if they are based on material that has been reliably reported. That's what we have here. If something happens in the near future that negates the subject's claim to notability, we can always go through a second nomination. NewYorkActuary (talk) 09:04, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Normani deserves to have her own page. She is going to compete in one of the biggest dance competitions in the US. Her group is thriving and she might have more solo endeavours in the future. She has done so many charity work with and without her group. She even has acted in A TV series. There shouldn't be any debate in this topic. Srn27 (talk) 12:18, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with the two 'keep' arguments above. Normani is about to be on DWTS in 4 days. Every contestant of the previous seasons has their own page, and all of them has their DWTS scores kept. This argument alone should be enough to keep her page. She is also one of the favorites to win this season, so I highly doubt that she'll be eliminated early on. afterpartylaur (talk) 15:52, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In fairness to the "delete" proponents, we should note that it isn't literally true that the contestant scores appear in every contestant's article. Indeed, the article on Priscilla Presley doesn't even mention her appearance on the show at all. I wouldn't be surprised to find that a good many other articles mention the subject's appearance on the show, but without providing detailed scores. I still believe that the instant article should be kept, but it's not because we need a place to store a duplicate account of her week-by-week performance on the show. NewYorkActuary (talk) 16:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.