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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. – Joe (talk) 13:22, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jérémie Poirier

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Jérémie Poirier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Article about a hockey player, not properly sourced as passing WP:NHOCKEY. His top notability claim is that he's a draft prospect to the NHL, which is not an "inherent" notability claim in and of itself -- the highest level he has actually played at so far is the farm team system, which is not a level of play that guarantees automatic inclusion in Wikipedia either.
His only basis for notability at this time would be if he could be shown to pass WP:GNG on his sourceability, but this is referenced entirely to primary sources self-published by his teams and their leagues, with not a single GNG-worthy reliable source shown at all.
Obviously no prejudice against recreation in the future if he actually takes ice in a real Calgary Flames game, but just playing for the farm team isn't enough to earn a Wikipedia article in and of itself. Bearcat (talk) 12:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ice hockey and Canada. Bearcat (talk) 12:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: WP:TOOSOON/WP:CRYSTAL violation to boot. Ravenswing 13:07, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Article updated with WP:GNG quality sources. Player meets notability due to franchise records with Saint John Sea Dogs and All-Rookie AHL team. Arguably top honours. IceBergYYC (talk) 17:22, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What element of NHOCKEY do you claim this meets? Being named to an all-rookie team or setting a franchise record meets no notability criteria whatsoever. The criteria for junior league and minor-league players is quite specific: being an all-time top ten leading league scorer, or a First Team All-Star. Ravenswing 18:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Meets general notability due to coverage of honours and records. NHOCKEY irrelevant. IceBergYYC (talk) 19:04, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Local interest coverage in local interest contexts doesn't help to establish notability of the "just because media coverage exists" variety. For a hockey player at the junior level, media coverage only builds a GNG pass if it's being given in the context of achievements that would satisfy a criterion listed in NHOCKEY, and does not build a GNG pass if it exists only in run of the mill contexts that hundreds of other players at the same level of play could likely also show. GNG is not just a numberL it also takes into account the context of what the person is getting coverage for, and considers local coverage in not-inherently-notable local contexts to be not worth all that much. Bearcat (talk) 21:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would argue that full articles discussing the player in question, in both of the major newspapers for the city of 1 million people, including the players above and beyond achievements at the junior and minor professional level are more than enough to satisfy GNG. I agree that a news article stating "Jeremie Poirier scored a goal in tonight's win" is run-of-the-mill and does not satisfy GNG. However, the cited articles are now GNG satisfactory. As for your statement that GNG is only applicable if used to satisfy SNG that is untrue. WP:ATHLETE states "Subjects that do not meet the sport-specific criteria outlined in this guideline may still be notable if they meet the general notability guideline or another subject specific notability guideline." Poirier satisfies this. IceBergYYC (talk) 22:21, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The statement that "For a hockey player at the junior level, media coverage only builds a GNG pass if it's being given in the context of achievements that would satisfy a criterion listed in NHOCKEY" is absolutely untrue. GNG means getting significant coverage from multiple, independent reliable sources. It does not specify that the reason for the coverage has to be one of the few achievement that provide presumed notability under NHOCKEY. While excepting "run of the mill" context that hundreds of other players at the same level of play could likely also show" has some validity (up to a point), most junior hockey players do not have multiple articles specifically about them in the Calgary Sun or in TSN, and most do not have additional coverage detailing their achievements and potential as a top prospect and potential first round draft pick. Rlendog (talk) 14:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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