Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alois Kalss

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 14:54, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alois Kalss

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Does not meet notability per WP:SOLDIER (or any other subcategory); Knight's Cross award has been tagged with Citation needed since 2011; overall article has been tagged Refimprove since 2013 K.e.coffman (talk) 02:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – As above, does not meet WP:GNG.Deathlibrarian (talk) 04:19, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 17:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Austria-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 17:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 17:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 06:09, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this is a classic example of an editor deleting large amounts of text and sources then nominating it for deletion. There were several sources on this article prior to their deletion by the nominator. Please check the article history for such behaviour when supporting a deletion nomination. A check of "what links here" would show that his award is fully cited on the list at List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipients (Ka–Km) to Scherzer and Fellgiebel, including his rank at the time, the date of award and his position at the time of award. It is not that hard to make such checks before nominating for deletion or supporting deletion. All of this information should have been available to editors considering deletion, yet it was not, due to the deletion of significant parts of the article prior to its nomination. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:02, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nom's Comment: Here's the article as of February, 2016, with the Refimprove tag. I believe four months is a sufficient time to improve an article. In any case, GNG still needs to be met. WP:Soldier states that:

"In general, an individual is presumed to be notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple verifiable independent, reliable sources. In particular, individuals will almost always have sufficient coverage to qualify if they: Were awarded their nation's highest award for valour." The footnote states: "Some awards are/were bestowed in different grades. For the purpose of this notability guide only the highest military grade of such awards qualifies. See: Discussion regarding awards with multiple grades."

While the Knight's Cross was a prestigious award, it was not the highest grade (there ware Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds, etc). Moreover, the GNG still needs to be met, through multiple verifiable independent, reliable sources, which appear to be lacking in this case. There's a one-line mention in Willi Fey: link, plus Google book search results bring up works by Otto Carius and Franz Kurowski, but I cannot locate the subject's name inside. In any case, these could not be considered "independent, reliable sources". K.e.coffman (talk) 06:25, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Even if your views on the reliability of Kurowski were accepted by the community, how is Carius not independent of Kalss? Was he Kalss' brother-in-law? And because the preview function does not show you what the book says about Kalss does not mean there isn't relevant information within the book. I have used many Serbo-Croat sources where the Google Books result comes up with one or two instances not available in preview but the source itself has reams of information on the subject. I am sure the same applies to Germans. Have you at least checked the German Encyclopedia of Biography, given it is free and searchable online? Given the language differential, that would be a basic check you should have conducted and reported as part of the nomination. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestion; I checked for the name in the Neue Deutsche Biographie. There is no entry for the subject there. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:26, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Add'l comment from nom: pinging Deathlibrarian to see if they would like to revisit following the above additions to the thread, and after the review of the 2015 version of the article, which I added per the suggestion on my Talk page. K.e.coffman (talk) 09:22, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – As a tank ace, he destroyed 43 tanks, which doesn't seem to make him notable enough to warrant a wikpiedia page - also receiving that level of the Iron Cross - also not notable, as thousands of people recieved it. As above, does not meet WP:GNG.Deathlibrarian (talk) 04:19, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as the best here is the awards, nothing else is particularly convincing of the needed independent notability and the improvements. SwisterTwister talk 18:08, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete tentative. No german article again. Aoziwe (talk) 14:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.