User talk:Th'Observer

October 2020

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Wigan Warriors has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
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• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Wigan Warriors was changed by Th'Observer (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.921642 on 2020-10-11T15:58:15 00:00

Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 15:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
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If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Wigan Warriors, you may be blocked from editing. Beryllium Sphere (talk) 21:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

September 2022

Hello, I'm Fleets. I noticed that you recently removed content from Wigan Warriors without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Fleets (talk) 15:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Fleets Hi Fleets. Wigan Warriors is a Rugby League club. It isn't correct English to say "The Wigan Warriors are" as it's plural and it makes it sound like there's more than one of them. There are many people who make up the club but there is only one club.

I find so often that when I come onto this page my edits get undone or taken away when all I'm trying to do is enhance the page for the club that I love.

Please can you change the content back to how I had it?

Surely allowing users to enhance Wikipedia pages is in the spirit of Wikipedia rather than constantly undoing edits which improve content on the website?

Thank you Th'Observer (talk) 19:13, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're 180 degrees wrong; Wigan RLFC would have started that way, but as soon as Wigan took a pluralised mascot as part of their name then every version of English has the word the as part of the phrasing. Please see New York Yankees, Chicago Bulls, Sydney Swans, Kashima Antlers, etc all with the word "The" preceding the title. One that doesn't do this is the word Rovers, as that is not a mascot. If you want Wigan to change back to Wigan RLFC, then that is something to take up with the club, but the English language is flexible, but not that flexible to drop the word the ahead of something that is plural by having that second word as part of it's common name.Fleets (talk) 19:54, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Fleets, you have missed the point. It's not the "the" but whether or not a club is one thing: "is" or a group of people: "are". This comes up a lot, some people insist it's it e.g. "Wigan had its best season in years" instead of "Wigan had their best season in years". I'm in the "their" camp, calling a team "it" is weird to me, and saying "are" is flat out wrong I don't think is accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Local Potentate (talk • contribs) 20:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

On the it / their debate I'm on the same page as yourself Local Potentate; Wigan had their best season in years. The Warriors had their best season in years. The Wigan Warriors had their best season in years. It is a club, and they have local rivals; St Helens (RLFC) is a professional rugby league football club, and they had their best season in years.

@Local Potentate It is a club. One club. Fleets talks about plural names but Wigan Warriors is the name of the club. One club. A single entity. The players aren't the Warriors. They're players who play for Wigan Warriors, which is a club and there's one of them. The Australian media would almost report and say something like "and Wigan has its first win of the season" as opposed to "Wigan had their first win of the season".

Why change it back seriously? With all due respect are you even Wigan fans? I may just give up with this website as it's borderline Gestapo the way it's moderated.

If you aren't Wigan fans, are you moderating the pages of other clubs with the same vigour?

This is aimed at Fleets also. Th'Observer (talk) 20:59, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

See

• "The Cowboys got to within four points of the seventh-placed Rabbitohs with 12 minutes left in their match, but ended with 11 players on the field.".
• Things went from bad to worse for the Wests Tigers all season and they eventually collected their first wooden spoon in club history.
• Tigers hand West Coast their biggest loss for the season to inflict more pain

And many more. I didn't revert your change, I am saying your justification is not valid, and "they" is in common usage and therefore acceptable English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Local Potentate (talk • contribs) 01:06, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Fleets Why is the club name not listed as "The Wigan Warriors" on that basis? No, guess what? It isn't. It's Wigan Warriors Rugby League Football Club. Th'Observer (talk) 21:46, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

It's entirely related to the Warriors element of the club name. Please see the previous links provided with regards to the Yankees, Bulls, Antlers, etc. If the Wigan Warriors dropped the Warriors element of the name, then the article would likely start "Wigan Rugby League Football Club" is a professional rugby league football club who compete in the Super League... Until then it would be very standard English that you would be looking to fight against, and not just British-English, but also American-English, Australian-English, etc. By having the mascot name it automatically and unequivocally becomes a plural entity.Fleets (talk) 16:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)