User talk:Esszet

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Hello! Esszet, you are invited to join other new editors and friendly hosts in the Teahouse, an awesome place to meet people, ask questions, and learn more about Wikipedia. Please join us! Rosiestep (talk) 14:42, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please Please Me

What is "the article" on this (excellent) album? I'll be happy to add it if you like. Let's not edit war here. :) --Kieronoldham (talk) 00:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's Twist and Shout. In the sentence I added, I linked to it… Esszet (talk) 00:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Generally speaking, a link to another Wiki. page does not count as a "reliable source" (at least not in my experience with other editors). Found another reference which hopefully will suffice. The word structure of your edit (which I'll reinsert) may need slightly changing. Regards --Kieronoldham (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hello, Esszet, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Dan56 (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

June 2013

Hello, I'm Dan56. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Revolver (album), but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Dan56 (talk) 15:33, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm Amaury. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Sammy Davis, Jr., but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Amaury (talk) 02:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article says he converted to Judaism. 02:38, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

Hello, I noticed that you deleted a sentence with source in an article, Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj without mentioning an identified reason. It has been reverted. Please stop deleting other people's sourced work which is accounted as vandalism. Thank you. Mongolkhun (talk) 00:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Opting in to VisualEditor

As you may know, VisualEditor ("Edit ^beta") is currently available on the English Wikipedia only for registered editors who choose to enable it. Since you have made 50 or more edits with VisualEditor this year, I want to make sure that you know that you can enable VisualEditor (if you haven't already done so) by going to your preferences and choosing the item, "MediaWiki:Visualeditor-preference-enable". This will give you the option of using VisualEditor on articles and userpages when you want to, and give you the opportunity to spot changes in the interface and suggest improvements. We value your feedback, whether positive or negative, about using VisualEditor, at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:10, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted your edits

I have reverts your edits (1 2) to the Leo Isacson article, changing his death date from the 28th to the 21st, which are in clear conflict with a rather reliable source, the US Congress.

Is there a reason you changed this, or was it vandalism? Am I going to have to scrutinize your other edits for similar, unreasonable edits? Int21h (talk) 01:25, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at his obituary, listed as ‘The New York Times Company’ under ‘External Links’, you'll see that it was published on 25 September 1996, so the 28th date can't be right. I also have a better source: the Social Security Death Index (see here). Please don't assume that edits are unreasonable just because they're in conflict with a reliable source; it could be wrong. Esszet (talk) 14:43, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Current

I've initiated a discussion at Template talk:Current#Reworking this template. —David Levy 17:11, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Esszet,
Apropos your working draft items for an RfC, could you push it into an independent section, or do you mind mind if I sectioned it off?
I suspect it may be desirable to discuss the RfC headnote for a period, since there are (so far) two proposed paths, in addition to yet-to-be-found other outcomes for changing {{current}}. Perhaps making those two paths explicit would be useful, as well as calling out for additional suggestions that may be a source of movement on the topic..
-- Yellowdesk (talk) 04:23, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I grant that a person is not "a current event", but we should have a template that deals with 'hot' topics. Since there is none, "current" seems like the most appropriate for the moment. If you are trying to introduce a new template, it should be easy to use in all sorts of articles, not just those dealing with an event or death. El Alternativo (talk) 19:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is a template for people affected by current events: {{Current person}}. And as for whether we should have a template that deals with ‘hot’ topics, see Template talk:current. Esszet (talk) 20:20, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Archived references

I've reverted your removal of the archived reference URL at Guy Paul Morin. One never knows when an original URL will disappear. Having the archive available is always a good idea and shouldn't be removed. Regards. -- Whpq (talk) 13:24, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:King crimson – islands.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:King crimson – islands.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 13:49, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Someone replaced it with a slightly cropped version, so the version I uploaded can be nominated for deletion straight away. Esszet (talk) 14:35, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Shades of Deep Purple

You reverted an edit for the album cover writing "The US version may well have come out first, but since they're a British band, the original British version should take precedence." This sounds odd and new to me. Can you validate your claim with some MoS discussion or rule? To my knowledge the cover of the first edition is what should be on top of the infobox, because it is the "original cover". Deep Purple were a British band signed to an American label which released the album way before EMI, so Tetragrammaton cover should be on top. Lewismaster (talk) 07:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in rare cases, the original cover is left out entirely; on Led Zeppelin, for example, the ‘original’ cover, which had the band's name in turquoise instead of orange (see the ‘Artwork’ section), isn't there at all (probably for fair use reasons – it's not hard with the more familiar cover there to ‘practically convey with words alone’ what it looks like), but the point is that the original cover isn't necessarily the main (or in this case, even the official) cover, and so the original cover shouldn't necessarily receive precedence over the main cover. For an example of a very similar principle, see Out of Our Heads; the UK version, which was released several months after the US version, which, unlike that of Shades, is significantly different from the UK version, takes precedence in the entire article. I realize that that's not what the template documentation says; it should probably be changed to ‘main cover’, ‘official cover’, ‘most familiar cover’, or something like that. Esszet (talk) 11:40, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In the case of Shades of Deep Purple the US cover is not only the first published, but also the the best known one. The album sold very well in the US and was ignored in the UK. It is also in the inset of the Remasterd Edition cover by the British EMI and for all these reasons it should be considered the main cover. Lewismaster (talk) 17:29, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It appears as though some versions of the CD reissue use the US cover in the insert; go to amazon.co.uk and search ‘Shades of Deep Purple’, and you'll see that others, including the first one that comes up, use the British cover. In any case, the official Deep Purple website uses the British cover, so that should be the main cover here. Esszet (talk) 19:37, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I asked for more opinions on the matter at Talk:Shades of Deep Purple#Cover dispute. The discussion can continue there. Lewismaster (talk) 21:08, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

National varieties of English

In a recent edit to the page Phil Collins, you changed one or more words or styles from one national variety of English to another. Because Wikipedia has readers from all over the world, our policy is to respect national varieties of English in Wikipedia articles.

For a subject exclusively related to the United Kingdom (for example, a famous British person), use British English. For something related to the United States in the same way, use American English. For something related to another English-speaking country, such as Canada, Australia, or New Zealand, use the variety of English used there. For an international topic, use the form of English that the original author used.

In view of that, please don't change articles from one version of English to another, even if you don't normally use the version in which the article is written. Respect other people's versions of English. They, in turn, should respect yours. Other general guidelines on how Wikipedia articles are written can be found in the Manual of Style. If you have any questions about this, you can ask me on my talk page or visit the help desk. Thank you. Mlpearc (open channel) 01:54, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Spanish pronouns

Here are my answers. However, as I tell everybody, discussions about one particular article are better placed in the talk page for that article; in that way, many more editors can have their say.

1. Do you disambiguate it with a sí or para sí and thus get things like Se lo hizo a sí and Se lo mantenía para sí? -- It's common to do so, though not obligatory.

2. When you have multiple direct or indirect object pronouns, do you have to repeat the verb every time a new one is used? Thus, is it Me y te gusta or Me gusta y te gusta? -- You have to repeat the verb, Spanish is not ready to have different pronouns with the same function for just one verb.

3. I know that emphasis is placed on personal direct object pronouns by repeating them with personal a and putting the a disjunctive construction wherever you want to place emphasis: Me ama a mí, Te necesito a ti, etc. But do you use a when placing emphasis on non-personal direct object pronouns, and if not, do you just use the disjunctive form? Thus, is it Se los di ellos a él? -- You mean ellos as a direct object? No, él/ella/ellos... when not preceded by any preposition can only work as sentence subjects. In this case the los pronoun cannot be duplicated by a stressed pronoun, only by a noun.

4. I know that in perfect infinitives, pronouns get added to haber: haberme visto, habértelos dado, etc. Does the same rule apply to ser in passive infinitives when used with indirect object pronouns? Thus, is it sernos dado, serme guardado, and, if you want to get really fancy, haberte sido mostrado, etc.? -- It is possible, though virtually absent from everyday speech.

5. I found a site that says that in formal writing and oratory, object pronouns can be added as enclitics to pretty much any verb form you want to attach them to: thus, to use the examples that the site uses, propúseme, siéntese, etc. Is that true? If so: a) Do the normal rules for encliticization apply (i.e. verb-final "-s" drops before nos and se (thus Tú dánoslo, Nosotros dámoselo, etc.) and I'm guessing verb-final "‑n" drops before nos as well (thus Ellos dánoslo, Ellas viéronos, etc.))?b) In compound tenses, what do the enclitics attach to? Do you say Helo visto or He vístolo, Fueme dado or Fue dádome, etc.? -- siéntese (usted) as an imperative of sentarse is normal. In verbal forms other than infinitive, gerund and imperative, such as in propúseme, enclitics are just an unusual feature of literary/poetic styles. Verbal -s drops in forms such as démonos = demos nos. Verbal -n never drops: dieronnos = nos dieron. --Jotamar (talk) 15:25, 17 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

July 2016

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Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. Thanks! Spartacus! (talk) 19:11, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Stop deleting

Hello User Esszet

Please stop deleting the whole content of 2016: fortieth anniversarysection on this article and have a look on this carefully. I have also asked opinion of some other users and admins. So be patient and enjoy reading and editing on Wikipedia. Thanks.MetalS-W (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Can it be rewritten to be neutral? There obviously has to be a "Reception" section, but there's no need for an entire section dedicated to people's views on the album on its fortieth anniversary. It is thus pretty much inherently non-neutral and definitely unnecessary, so I think its lack of a NPOV is a good reason to delete it. Esszet (talk) 18:46, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"B-side"

Re: this—are there "B-sides" to CDs? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:30, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's what they're generally called, yeah, it's a holdover from the vinyl era. Esszet (talk) 00:51, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See for example Live Forever (the CD version was the only one with all 3). Esszet (talk) 00:54, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

February 2017

Hello, I'm Denisarona. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Greek fire without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Denisarona (talk) 14:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hernán Cortés

I reverted your changes to the Cortés article. Please do not change the formats of dates without cause; within an article they should be the consistent, and should mot be changed unless necessary. In the English Wikipedia, dates are generally written Month day, year. In some articles a different format is used, but you would need justification for using that format instead. In addition, the spelling of Hispanic names with accents is generally accepted - it is neither necessary nor desirable to remove the accents. Regards, Tarl N. (discuss) 05:38, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Castilleja de la Cuesta‎. Please see MOS:DATERET. Tarl N. (discuss) 05:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Day month year is standard for the entire English-speaking world outside the US, so unless the article has something specifically to do with the US, dmy should be used. By the way, all of the other exact dates in the infobox in Cortés's article use dmy format. Esszet (talk) 14:27, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please see MOS:DATERET. The date format chosen by the first major contributor in the early stages of an article should continue to be used. Reverted your changes again. Please discuss this on article pages if you have a problem. Tarl N. (discuss) 20:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[U]nless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic. Cortés is primarily associated with Spain and Mexico, which both use dmy as standard. Esszet (talk) 21:14, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you planning on going on a rampage changing every article in Wikipedia which doesn't meet your date format standards? Mexico and Spain tend to use formats of the form "28 de Noviembre de 1978". But this article is in English, and appears to have been written mostly by Americans, so we're not going to use dates in Spanish. The format similarity used in another language isn't sufficient cause to simply go around changing date formats. See WP:ENGVAR, which is essentially what you're doing - the policy to not go around arbitrarily changing is to avoid edit wars. As for the other issue, the diacritics in words drawn directly from Spanish are significant - some words mean something different when diacritics are removed, please do not remove them (and most notably, the article itself is named Hernán Cortés, so removing the accents inside the article seems rather futile). Tarl N. (discuss) 22:20, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, but if you're going to talk to me like that, I will report you for incivility. Cortés' association with Spain and Mexico is sufficient reason to change the format; Cuauhtemoc and Tenochtitlan aren't Spanish names at all, by the way (in the case of Cuauhtemoc, the accent appears to be used as often as not within the article). Esszet (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It might be worthwhile getting a 3rd party involved, particularly if you feel I'm being uncivil by disagreeing with you. We certainly don't seem to be seeing eye to eye.

My initial reason for flagging your entire edit for further examination was your removing an accent from Cortés inside an article named Hernán Cortés. That made me look closer, and the entire set of changes looked specious. I don't know what your dislike for the diacritics is, but I see no justification for removing them. As I mentioned, there are words where the diacritics change the meaning (the classic example is año vs ano), so a blanket removal of diacritics makes no sense. Tarl N. (discuss) 00:49, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

3rd party here. What date formats are used in non-English-speaking countries is irrelevant—this is why WP:TIES says "topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation". There is a well-established consensus for this—you won't see articles with "ties" to East Asian countries using YMD formats (2017 February 28), even though that's the only format most East Asian countries use. Changing date formats without consensus on articles that don't have strong ties with English-speaking countries is the kind of thing that results in blocks. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't remove the accent from Cortés's name at all; I changed one thing from "Cortés" to "the man". In this case, Spain and Mexico do use dmy (if with slightly different writing conventions), so, since large parts of the English-speaking world use it as well, it should also be be used here. It appears that there is some division among articles on other conquistadors about date format, but since articles like Felipe VI of Spain and Emiliano Zapata, do use dmy, all articles on conquistadors should too. Esszet (talk) 02:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I'm guessing dmy is more common in articles on subjects that have ties with nations that use other formats (e.g. Emperor Taizong of Tang, Akihito, Ho Chi Minh), so I don't see a need to make an exception. Esszet (talk) 02:41, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"In this case, Spain and Mexico do use dmy ... so, since large parts of the English-speaking world use it as well"—no, the very well-established consensus is no, and those who persist despite that get themselves blocked. Just give it up. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:15, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Once a date format is establiched on an article, it takes a very strong consensus to change it. Compare Akihito to Hirohito. Neither will likely change, and the suggestion that one should change because of the other will only get laughed down. Please familiarize yourself with MOS:DATEVAR. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:19, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for taking so long, but I don't see why you're getting so pissed off. I did see the article on Hirohito, and it really doesn't make sense to have two articles on pretty much the same topic with different date formats. It would obviously take a lot more than editing one article to change it, but it is very strange. It should be standardized across different topics, but this isn't the place for that discussion. Esszet (talk) 02:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussions have been had ad nauseam, and the consensus has been confirmed repeatedly. If you want to see that consensus change, you'll have your work cut out for you. Until it does change, you have to follow that consensus or risk getting blocked (which happens often). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:11, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Too Much Too Soon (album)

If you have anything new to add beyond what you've said in the edit summaries already, please discuss it at the article's talk page. I don't at this point, and you should really move on past reverting. Dan56 (talk) 17:23, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dan56: You're acting as if you owned the article – the first two reasons you gave are clearly inapplicable, and then you failed to give one at all. Esszet (talk) 19:25, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

April 2017

Your recent editing history at Too Much Too Soon (album) shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Dan56 (talk) 21:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RM at Template talk:Overcite

I started the RM discussion at Template talk:Overcite, where I invite you to comment. --George Ho (talk) 02:51, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

June 2017

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RE: Too Much Too Soon (album)

A) There's no need for anymore detail in this caption; the band and the time frame (1973) are what's relevant to the section's prose.

B) They doooooo have to be sentences; otherwise there's no need for the period at the end. On a related note, citations should normally be placed at the end of punctuation (WP:CITEFOOT). Dan56 (talk) 20:47, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

C) Please stop making minor/nuisance/frivolous changes to this article; enough has been started in the past over such changes.

D) Thank you. 'Tis all. Dan56 (talk) 20:47, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Look here. Thanksss. Dan56 (talk) 17:31, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Linkin ark

Please review and/or comment at this discussion - FlightTime Public (open channel) 23:22, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

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March 2018

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Disruptive editing

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diphthong or hiatus?

Hello Esszet! Are you a Greek speaker? The Dictionary of Standard Modern Greek transcribes κοροϊδεύω as [koro͜iδévo] and μποϊκοτάρω as [boikotáro]. According to your edit, the "͜" means a hiatus on the dictionary (I failed to find an explanation about transcriptions on this dictionary...)? If so it seems little strange to me so I ask this question. Thank you! :) 113.77.253.29 (talk) 22:50, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, unfortunately, I'm not, I was just going by what I found here (almost three years ago at this point...wow...). Wiktionary has κοροϊδεύω with two separate vowels, but since it has the same thing for κορόιδο, which clearly (?) has a diphthong, it's probably just wrong. The Dictionary of Standard Modern Greek, on the other hand, has φράουλα without the diphthong when it clearly has one, so I'm not entirely sure whom to trust here, but I would obviously give precedence to the Dictionary of Standard Modern Greek (there were probably just mistakes made when digitizing it). We should probably ask a native speaker for confirmation...Macrakis? Esszet (talk) 14:29, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, probably there are some sloppy transcriptions on the digitized dictionary. I eventually found a guide of transcriptions here, where κελάηδημα and διαμιάς are transcribed as [k̃elá͜iδima] and [δi͜amñás] respectively, but [k̃el(ái)δima] and [δ(ia)mñás] in the digitized entry section, without ties. I don't know if confirmation would be effective, because Foundalis said Greek speakers are unconscious of diphthongs on that page. 14.220.229.241 (talk) 17:15, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can you try posting the link to the transcription guide again? It isn't working. Ordinary speakers may not be aware of them, but it isn't hard to explain, so confirmation should be easy. And how the hell is there supposed to be an /n/ in διαμιάς? There's no nu in the word at all! Esszet (talk) 17:31, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ah forget to say, you should switch to Greek (the button in the upper-right corner) first because there is only a Greek version. There are only examples there, without any explanation for what these symbols mean, but the tie is likely to mean a diphthong. The [ɲ] is correct, see JIPA: In /m/ /i/ vowel sequences forming one syllable, /i/ is pronounced /ɲ/, e.g. [mɲɐ.ˈlo] µυαλό 'brain' (cf. [mi.ɛ.ˈlos] µυελός 'bone marrow'). 14.220.229.241 (talk) 18:42, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Examples with ties are as follows (considering the vague picture, I type them out here; all transcriptions are the same as those in the entry section, expect for κελάηδημα and διαμιάς without ties, and βοήθεια, αντρειά, διόλου both with and without ties):

a͜i; αϊ, αη; χαϊδεύω, αηδόνι; xa͜iδévo, a͜iδóni

á͜i; άι, άη; χάιδεμα, κελάηδημα; xá͜iδema, k̃elá͜iδima

i͜a; ια, εια; διαμιάς, βοήθεια; δi͜amñás, voíθi͜a

i͜á; ιά, ειά; αλετριά, αντρειά; aletri͜á, andri͜á

i͜é; ιέ, ειε; αντιμετριέμαι, αντρειεύω; andimetri͜éme, andri͜évo

i͜o; ιο, ειο; ρασιοναλισμός, αντρειοσύνη; rasi͜onalizmós, andri͜osíni

i͜ó; ιό; διόλου; δi͜ólu

o͜i; οϊ; βοϊδάμαξα; vo͜iδámaksa

ó͜i; όι; βόιδι; vó͜iδi 14.220.229.241 (talk) 20:02, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it isn't even comprehensive for its own purposes (it doesn't say anything about <μι> being realized as /ɲ/, and there might even be others), but yeah, the tie has to indicate diphthongs, otherwise there would be no reason to list them specifically. To make matters even worse, the pronunciation of stressed diphthongs (as well as all unstressed diphthongs, apparently) is apparently optional (page 4, marked p. 154) outside of antepenult position, where breaking them up would violate the three-syllable stress rule. Let's just wait for Macrakis at this point. Esszet (talk) 16:27, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I'm afraid I can't really help here, for several reasons:

There is surely variation in the pronunciation of these words, partly based on age/generation, partly on region/dialect, partly on education/social class (influence from katharevousa), partly on context (prose vs. poetry/singing).

There are probably prescriptive norms, which may or may not be observed, but which may affect informants' perceptions.

There may also be hyper-correction or spelling pronunciations when people are being careful.

The terminology used by Greek scholars and teachers may or may not correspond exactly with that used by non-Greek linguists.

To my ear, some of the cases are clear, but apparently I don't hear them the same way others do. For example, to my ear, φράουλα has a hiatus, not a diphthong, though Esszet (above) says that the recording "clearly has one [a diphthong]".

Though Greek is my first language, I have lived most of my life outside Greece, and have not had any formal education in Greece.

I am not a linguist or phonetician. Though I hear the nasalization after the [m] in µυαλό, I'd have transcribed it as [mj̃ɐ.lo] or [mjɐ̃.lo], with a nasalization tilde over the [j] or the [ɐ]. But as I say, I am no expert.

Hope this helps. --Macrakis (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thanks, I guess we're just going to have to try someone else...Thanatos666? Esszet (talk) 18:02, 24 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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