User talk:DavidAHull

Welcome!

Hello, DavidAHull, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Victuallers (talk) 16:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve Tanhouse lane railway station

Hi, I'm Jackson Peebles. DavidAHull, thanks for creating Tanhouse lane railway station!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Thank you for starting this article! However, if you could please add some references to ensure that the page won't be deleted as well as categories that you feel are appropriate, that would be fantastic!

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Hello, I've done the suggested cleanup on the Tanhouse Lane railway station article, take a look to see how it now looks and ask if there is anything you don't understand.

As part of this, I moved your comments in the article to the talk page - Talk:Tanhouse Lane railway station - and I have replied in a little more detail there. Comments about articles belong on talk pages not in the article themselves, see Help:Using talk pages for an introduction. Thryduulf (talk) 08:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Tanhouse lane railway station

Hello, DavidAHull,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Tanhouse lane railway station should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tanhouse lane railway station .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, Jackson Peebles (talk) 04:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A Welcome ... kind of ...

Sorry this was about "the first thing" you heard from Wikipedians. We do try hard not to "bite the newbies", and I do hope you have an easier time of it from here on in. However, all's well that ends well - if you keep smiling, do your bit and enjoy yourself, with a bit of learning the ropes along the way, I think you'll find that it's a lot of fun helping to build the world's best encyclopedia. All the best, and WELCOME TO WIKIPEDIA! Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Another message of support here. If you're interested in UK railways, then you may want to join our Wikiproject on UK railways. Just add yourself to the members list and you're in!. Don't worry too much about the deletion discussion, railway stations are generally notable enough to be able to reference adequately and needing improvement is never a reason to delete an article. Mjroots (talk) 17:45, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this cheery and most welcome invitation. Alas, I have just spent half an hour trying to add myself to the list and can't find how to do so. The project sounds right up my street, however. I have contributed to Wikipedia before, but until my foray into Tanhouse Lane I have only found existing pages where I can add or correct things, which I do by going in and adopting the existing layout. My biggest contribution by far is to the Shirebrook North railway station entry, which I like to imagine shows care and attention. I am 63 and have had a lifelong interest in railways, notably Immingham, where I had several railwaymen in my family as a child and the LDECR which I could see from my school playing field in Shirebrook. I can bring three things to the party: 1) decent eye for detail, 2) reasonable written English and 3) particular affinity to the periods 1955-66 and 2013 onwards. I even use trains regularly! Kind regards, Dave I now see that I should use Tildes to sign ou, so here goes... DavidAHull (talk) 22:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

David, the members list can be found here. A useful short cut to the Wikiproject's talk page is WT:UKT. Mjroots (talk) 19:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Aha! The penny has dropped! All I had to do was go in and edit the page by copying and pasting someone else's entry then editing that copy. I have spent a career making this the very last thing one would ever do, as allowing lay users "behind the scenes" is a recipe for disaster in public databases. I was therefore looking for something like "Click this button to add your entry", followed by a dialogue box. Wikipedia turns this on its head. Simple when you know how, impossible until then. Thanks to all who have sent messages of support. I'm up and running.... 31.54.230.173 (talk) 06:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot to LogIn (again) DavidAHull (talk) 06:29, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 27

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Dukeries Junction railway station, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Great Northern Railway (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Wow! This is really helpful, I've gone in, figured out what I'd done wrongly, corrected it (them), learned and moved on. Onwards and upwards! Thanks DavidAHull (talk) 19:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

References

Hi, I see that you've been altering the order of presentation of a number of references, as here. Is there a reason for this? The thing is, references are most commonly given with authors first, then year, title and so on. The citation templates like {{cite book}} can help to achieve a consistent format - with these, you can list the various items in any order you like, but they will be displayed in a consistent order. Here's the Butt ref, first as it was before your edit:

• Butt, R.V.J., (1995) The Directory of Railway Stations, Yeovil: Patrick Stephens

and after your edit:

• "The Directory of Railway Stations" by RVJ Butt (Patrick Stephens, 1995) ISBN 1-8526-0508-1

and now using {{cite book}}:

• Butt, RVJ (1995). The Directory of Railway Stations. Patrick Stephens. ISBN 1-8526-0508-1.

and now with a few other items filled in:

• Butt, R.V.J. (1995). The Directory of Railway Stations. Yeovil: Patrick Stephens Ltd. pp. 138, 211. ISBN 1-85260-508-1. R508.

Whilst the use of citation templates certainly isn't mandatory, they are commonly used in many articles about British railway lines and stations. When given the parameter |ref=harv, they also facilitate the use of Shortened footnotes, as seen at Reading Southern railway station. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:06, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello Redrose, thank you for this most welcome guidance. I altered them to strive for standardisation, but I reckon "your" way is better still. I've had a first bash at altering Chesterfield Market Place railway station to the Wiki Way and would appreciate your comments before I get stuck in to all the others on the LD&ECR. The only thing I don't understand is the Rnnn numbers, what are they? I'm off to Cardiff tomorrow until the weekend, so won't get cracking before Sunday. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC).

I assume that you mean the |id=R508 - that's not actually necessary, |id= is something of a "miscellaneous" parameter. I often use it for the publisher's own identifier for the book, on my copy of Butt there is "R508" printed low down on the spine. Other publishers have other systems, many don't have one. Another example is

• Cupit, J.; Taylor, W. (1984) [1966]. The Lancashire, Derbyshire & East Coast Railway. Oakwood Library of Railway History (2nd ed.). Headington: Oakwood Press. ISBN 0-85361-302-8. OL19.

again, on this book, "OL19" is printed towards one end of the spine. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:33, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, when I wrote above that "|id= is something of a "miscellaneous" parameter", I didn't mean that it was literally miscellaneous, which is how you seem to be using it in edits like this. It's intended for an identifier which doesn't fit any of the other parameters designed for specific types of identifiers. For a DVD, the |id= parameter would be for the publisher's catalogue number. For example, if I were to use this DVD as a reference source, I would put |id=BBCDVD 3482, that being the number printed on the packaging (it's also shown in the "Product Info" tab of that web page). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:35, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Ho hum. Having spent rather a lot of time going back to Chesterfield Market Place and working east to put the DVD refs in the manner I thought you wanted - ie to tell the punter what s/he would be getting - I'm less than enthusiastic about going over it all again. Perhaps you could send me one of my references in the style you want, not something from Dr Who or whatever, but send me a concrete example of what I've put and what would conform to the rubric, two different examples would be even better. I will then stand a better chance of getting it right. Hope this finds you, as I'm lost in the mists of talk pages. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 23:45, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Right, I've done a bit of digging. Let's consider the ones where you've put something similar to

• DVD (2005). The Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway - Memories of a Lost Route. Chesterfield: Terminus Publications. Collection of stills on DVD. {{cite AV media}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• DVD2 (2005). Diesels Along:-The Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway. Chesterfield: Terminus Publications. DVD, stills and film with commentary, 60 mins. {{cite AV media}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

Do they have numbers like TP321D or TP014D marked on the packaging? If so, we can change them to:

• DVD (2005). The Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway - Memories of a Lost Route. Chesterfield: Terminus Publications. TP321D. {{cite AV media}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• DVD2 (2005). Diesels Along:-The Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway. Chesterfield: Terminus Publications. TP014D. {{cite AV media}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

Do they have any credits - writer, director, or presenter? If they do, one of those would be best for the |last1= and |first1= parameters, since "DVD" and "DVD2" are somewhat vague. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello again, thank you for going to this trouble. Where DVDs have presenters etc I have cited them rather than "DVD", though I have nevertheless sought to indicate to readers that something is a DVD, not a book or mag. As you haven't mentioned it, I presume Wiki doesn't have a "cite DVD" or "cite film" feature, which seems rum, given that it is a vast medium; what do our counterpart film buffs do, I wonder? I resorted to using "DVD" when I couldn't find any distinguishing identifiers AND I wanted to alert readers that such-and-such a source is a DVD, a sort of last resort. I then got carried away with an exuberanceo of helpfulness saying things like "stills with commentary", we don't say books have "writing and pictures", so why do anything so helpful with DVDs? I won't do it again and I'll let you zap all occurrences. I do understand what you're on about with identifiers, your original example on the spine of Cupit & Taylor was admirably succinct and eloquent. The fundamental nature of the two LDECR DVDs is that they were produced by a couple of blokes who had a load of good pictures and some local knowledge, but none of the production fol-de-rol of a pro publishing house, so they have produced lamb dressed up as mutton, and identifierless mutton, at that. Cheers, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 15:47, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Great Central Railway Society

Hello DavidAHull,

It seems to me that an article you worked on, Great Central Railway Society, may be copied from http://www.gcrsociety.co.uk/information.html. It's entirely possible that I made a mistake, but I wanted to let you know because Wikipedia is strict about copying from other sites.

It's important that you edit the article and rewrite it in your own words, unless you're absolutely certain nothing in it is copied. If you're not sure how to fix the problem or have any questions, there are people at the help desk who are happy to assist you.

Thank you for helping build a free encyclopedia! MadmanBot (talk) 22:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Great Central Railway Society

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A tag has been placed on Great Central Railway Society requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a club, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:37, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

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DVD refs

Hi, I see that in some articles - I'm not sure just how many, but they include Chesterfield Market Place railway station and Arkwright Town railway station - you've used a DVD as a reference source. I'd like to make a few observations on that, if I may. But before I start, I'd like to ask if the DVD comprises a single long feature, or several shorter items, perhaps episodes? --Redrose64 (talk) 07:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello Redrose, thank you for contacting me. I have noticed you walking behind me sweeping up, I hope I'm getting better. I appreciate your patience. I have two DVDs re the LD&ECR, the first concerns my particular field - the area West of Warsop (I grew up in Bolsover, went to school in Shirebrook and lived later in Scarcliffe, though I'm now in exile in Southport.) It is the only one I've cited in my recent, sustained effort to make a contribution on the Clog and Knocker, but I have a third which includes long sections on the MR Clowne and Doe Lea Branches, which I've also cited as I write them up. I expect to cite the second as I work my way East. I have three other Marsden Rail DVDs containing supporting evidence, notably re Tuxford and a couple with evocative but all too brief shots at Arkwright and Staveley GC. All in all, I have a mixed bag, some with brief snippets, others with long shots. To return to the one I've cited re ChMP etc it is an absolute gem, essentially, and unavoidably, it is a "photobook", ie stills presented by DVD rather than physical book. There is a lot of overlap with books and booklets I have cited, but there are some priceless shots, unique to the DVD as far as I can see, notably of the Boythorpe and Doe Lea Viaducts, the second includes a mix of stills and moving film, eg at Arkwright in the 1970s. All in all, long, short, moving and still! As you will have realised, I am keen to play ball with following standard procedures and will welcome learning how to do so with this medium. Finally, while I've got you, I shared your view that the line of text in my LD template was intrusive, but I couldn't see how to put it in properly, eg as a sub-heading. Can such a thing be done, and if so, how? Finally finally I see that Butt (which I don't have, alas) has a template of his own, is this a technique worth pursuing for standard works, eg Cupit and Taylor? If so, how? Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 09:09, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

There are indeed template pages for specific books, including {{Butt-Stations}}, but these lack a certain degree of flexibility, particularly when there has been more than one edition, as is the case for Cupit & Taylor. They're most useful either where that book is used on dozens of different articles, or a lot of information needs to be packed in. I have created very few myself, these were {{RCTS-LocosLNER-8A}} and a few others in the same series, because of the long list of authors.

Returning to the DVD, it's not that I want to rush out and buy one, but for those who do have the DVD, it would help to know just where in the DVD the relevant information is to be found. So, we need to know how far through (minutes and seconds) the particular snippet starts; and if there is more than one feature, we would need the feature name as well as the overall DVD title. Obviously the |p= parameter of {{sfn}} is intended for a page number, so instead we would use the |loc= parameter, as in |loc=A Grand Day Out, 13:42 --Redrose64 (talk) 10:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, this is helpful and should keep me out of mischief. I also asked "Finally, while I've got you, I shared your view that the line of text in my LD template was intrusive, but I couldn't see how to put it in properly, eg as a sub-heading. Can such a thing be done, and if so, how?" any thoughts? Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 12:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

By "LD template", I assume you mean {{Lancashire, Derbyshire & East Coast Railway}}. There aren't many route diagram templates which contain notes like "This diagram only concerns passenger lines " within the template box; in fact, I can't remember which others have them, if any. You could start a thread at WT:RDT, but it's possible that somebody there will say that by using {{Railway line header}} {{BS-header}} and {{BS-table}} you're using an obsolete technique and should have used {{BS-map}} from the outset. The {{BS-map}} method allows such notes in the |top= and |bottom= parameters; personally, I always use {{Railway line header}} {{BS-header}} and {{BS-table}} --Redrose64 (talk) 12:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)Thank you, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 13:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

LD&ECR

Knowing you have an interest in the LD&ECR, I thought you might be interested to know that there's a new book published and it looks quite good. See here. Lamberhurst (talk) 20:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Thank yoou very much, it looks fab, quite a few photos I haven't seen before, hope the text is good. It'll be on my birthday wishlist by morning.... Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 19

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Pleasley West railway station (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Clowne and Barlborough railway station (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Date format

Hi, this edit has reminded me - I kept meaning to tell you, but we don't use ordinals in dates, see WP:DATESNO. I have fixed it. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, will co. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 13:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, this edit was not a disambiguation, but bypassing a redirect. A disambiguation would be where you had found a link like Great Northern Railway - where the target is a disambiguation page and is clearly not what was intended - and altered it to Great Northern Railway; such fixes are generally good. But LNER and British Railways don't take you to the wrong page - they take you to the correct page, albeit via a redirect, so there is no need to fix these.

The funny little rules and conventions on Wikipedia can take months to get the hang of. If you have any questions, just ask. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)Thanks for your patient advice and for sweeping up after me. I may well take you up on your kind offer. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 27

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Duckmanton Junction

Please take a look at User:Useddenim/Duckmanton and tell me what you think. I redrew the lines around Duckmanton/Arkwright much closer to the actual layout. (Pale blue will be replaced with pale grey in the final version to further de-emphasize lines that have been removed.) I do, however, have a question about the colours (you) used: does pale pink represent 'lines in place but not in use' or 'other lines'? Useddenim (talk) 23:20, 1 June 2013

How does User:Useddenim/Duckmanton look now? (Only 1955 has been changed, pending consensus.) Useddenim (talk) 16:55, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
P.S. no need to leave a duplicate answer here, as well.

• Seriously fab. We have consensus on overall design. The Duckmanton East Junction wording needs to go up a row to match the junction itself. The curve off to Chesterfield Central just below Staveley Central, would, for once, be more accurately represented by a 90 degree turn than 45 degree, but that is hardly material. Are the two reds now standard colours for passenger and former passenger lines? If so, OK, but I prefer the old ones, maybe I'm just used to them, the new ones don't seem different enough to me. Very impressive. I hope this is the right place to reply! Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

See this for the latest revision. I hope I have satisfactorily represented Arkwright Town & Junction.
I think it best to stick to the standard dark red/pink combination to represent open and closed lines in order to avoid confusion, and I chose red for passenger services because it's the same colour as used by BR (and yes, I'm old enough to remember when was considered ‘new’ and ‘mod’). However, we now have a whole rainbow of colours to choose from (LNER blue? GWR brown? LMS green?), so if you'd prefer something else, by all means say so. Cheers. Useddenim (talk) 04:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Something's happened to the overall layout, if I missed it last night, I apologise. A visual reference point is the A632 which runs in a straight line between the two bridges and it feels due E-W, even if it isn't strictly so. On earlier versions (which I can no longer see) both bridges were on the same level, which looked and felt right and would make sense to a modern viewer or someone in a car. On this morning's version the Western (left-hand) one has been moved South (downwards.) Mercifully, I hope the solution is easy, simply move the superb "module" of DSJ-DNJ-DEJ and left hand road bridge up a row, put an STR below DSJ, and tweak the top right hand corner to join up again. Otherwise - Wow! If those are the standard colours then go with that. If we changed to Eastern Region Blue, for example, they would all be blues so leave it be. Could the dinky little pointers be anything other than red or would that look daft? My eye roved down your other delicious works in progress. Your fabulent West Cumbrian (Northern) diagram has Oatlands and Moresby Parks missing. I would be delighted to comment on this superb WIP if you wish, but I don't want to butt in. By the way, to my eye the colour scheme on both W Cumb diagrams looks clearer than that proposed for Ducky. It's a pleasure exploring with you. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 08:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

• Dear Alan. Now for some hat eating. In the course of looking for something quite different I have stumbled across a good scale old OS map of Arkwright Town and the Junctions. After a lifetime of travelling along the A632 by car and bus my flabber is gasted that the line of the road is not E-W, but as you have implied it with your "staggered" bridges. Your bridges are staggered and so am I. I can only hope you have not wasted time and effort "correcting" them. Gosh, this hat tastes crap. Yours apologetically. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, I thought I was finished with User:Useddenim/Duckmanton, but now I will have to go back ans move the easterly bridge. (Not a biggie, though I do have to go to work now—I ended up on 2nd shift for the summer, but it's easy work driving for the University: see this item.) As far as checking a previous version, just click on the [View history] tab and select whichever version you want. Useddenim (talk) 19:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

• Dear Alan, once again, my apologies. I'm even more impressed with what you do now I know you're several thousand miles away. I don't know how you select what to work on, but I have others cooking if you are interested. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

A632 on User:Useddenim/Duckmanton: 1955 version or 1965 version? Useddenim (talk) 03:42, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
P.S. The POINTER arrows only come in red.

1955 version please. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 07:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Pyewipe Junction

Thanks for adding to the Pyewipe Junction article - some interesting material there. I have some material on the GNGEJR and the LDEC to review and hope to expand the articles on both in the forthcoming months.--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 18:31, 2 June 2013 (UTC) I really appreciate your kind note, thank you. I look forward to seeing your stuff in due course. I've worked my way along the LD from Chesterfield MP and now I'm going to do the Beighton Branch, after Tuxford Shed and Works and Langwith J Shed. Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 19:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

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June 2013

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• built at road level at the end of a steep {{Convert|590|yd|m|0}} branch adjacent to Tinsley Road (later renamed {{rws|West Tinsley}} station. This connection also served [[Edgar Allen and Company]]'

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• run from Sheffield through {{rws|Spinkhill}}, {{rws|Clowne South}}, Creswell's old "Top Station" ({{rws|Creswell and Welbeck}}, {{rws|Shirebrook North}}, Shirebrook West, and {{rws|Mansfield

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TemplateData is here

Hey DavidAHull

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

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July 2013

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Ways to improve Kirkby-in-Ashfield Central railway station

Hi, I'm Wtwilson3. DavidAHull, thanks for creating Kirkby-in-Ashfield Central railway station!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please see WP:Citing sources for ideas on how to improve the references and footnotes on the article.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 19:19, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The article uses shortened footnotes and is a lot more consistent in that than a number of other articles that I could mention. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:16, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

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August 2013

Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that you recently added commentary to an article, Clipstone railway station. While Wikipedia welcomes editors' opinions on an article and how it could be changed, these comments are more appropriate for the article's accompanying talk page. If you post your comments there, other editors working on the same article will notice and respond to them, and your comments will not disrupt the flow of the article. However, keep in mind that even on the talk page of an article, you should limit your discussion to improving the article. Article talk pages are not the place to discuss opinions of the subject of articles, nor are such pages a forum. Thank you. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:10, 13 August 2013 (UTC): Will do, thanks, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 09:25, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

A page you started (Duckmanton East Junction) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Duckmanton East Junction, DavidAHull!

Wikipedia editor Risker just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Please add citations to the article. An external link is helpful, but some further confirmation of information is really of value.

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Thank you for reviewing this short article. I assume by reviewing it you scanned it for lack of citations, pornography, spelling and the like, which is all good stuff. Could I suggest you also read it, specifically the section headed "Description" which places Duckmanton East Junction in the context of the four junctions which made up the collectively named "Duckmanton Junction", which is cited up to the hilt. Good luck, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:21, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Please check your references

I notice that you have added a ref for the book Railway Atlas Then and Now to several pages, using ISBN 1-85260-508-1. Please note that ISBN 978 0 7110 3695 6 is the correct number. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, my error.

I don't know what your edit 'don't use obsolete or invalid params; don't stuff multiple values into years/events' refers to.

The parameters |owner= and |manager= are obsolete, you should use |original= |pregroup= and |postgroup=. The parameter |code= is invalid, since it is not recognised by {{Infobox UK disused station}}. The parameters |years= and |events= should each contain no more than one value; if you need more than one year/event pair, continue with |years1= |events1= |years2= |events2= |years3= |events3= etc. up to |years8= |events8=. This is for accessibility reasons. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Abbreviating dates

Please do not abbreviate dates - we normally write out month names in full. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:21, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

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ISBN of Portrait of the Cheshire Lines Committee

Hi, following up on your revert of my (and Jonesey95's) changes to Ainsdale Beach railway station. According to WorldCat, the ISBN of Portrait of the Cheshire Lines Committee is in fact 0-7110-2521-5 (or 978-0-7110-2521-9; they're equivalent). The ISBN "0 7110 2512 5" is invalid; the check digit "5" at the end doesn't match up with the rest of the number. I built a tool for working with ISBNs, and it also shows that this one is incorrect. Even if the incorrect version appears in the book, libraries are likely to be listing it under the corrected version—Wikipedia should too. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 22:50, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for this clear and helpful reply, I now accept the book has got it wrong. Luckily, the railway contents of the book are excellent. Does anyone actually use ISBNs in the real world? I have in the past quoted them to libraries and been met with blank stares. All the best. DavidAHull (talk) 18:03, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

ISBNs are most useful when you already know what book you're looking for, e.g. when following a citation. I think individual libraries tend to use the Dewey Decimal classification more, because that's more useful for searching for information by subject area, rather than seeking out a specific book. Of course, I'm not a librarian… {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 19:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Dewey classifications are non-unique: two books can have the same classification, and this means that they should be about the same topic, but not necessarily exactly the same. They're great for organising libraries, because if the library shelves are arranged in Dewey order, you should find that all the books that are specifically about the Cheshire Lines Committee are placed fairly close together, perhaps intermixed with books specific to other railways, depending on how many digits that library uses for Dewey numbers. Since they cannot identify a specific book, we don't provide for them in our citation templates.

ISBNs are supposed to be unique to the extent that if a book is revised, or merely republished in a different form (such as paperback instead of hardback), a new ISBN should be allotted. The last digit of an ISBN is known as the check digit: there is a calculation that you can perform on the other digits, and if the result of that does not match the check digit, you know that there is an error. It's sensitive enough to detect transposition of two digits, which is what seems to have happened here: applying the calculation to ISBN 0 7110 2512 5 we find that the check digit should be 6, i.e. ISBN 0 7110 2512 6 - but if you click that, and follow some of the links such as Open Library or WorldCat, you'll find that the book allotted that ISBN is Peter Johnson's "The Festiniog Railway: a view from the past", clearly nothing to do with the Cheshire Lines Committee. Searching those sites for the actual book title (Portrait of the Cheshire Lines Committee), we find ISBN 0 7110 2521 5 - all the digits are the same except that the third 1 has been exchanged with the 2. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:13, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

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A page you started (Great Coates Level Crossing electric railway station) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Great Coates Level Crossing electric railway station, DavidAHull!

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Necessary edits made correctly.

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A beer for you!

Cheers for writing this article Flixtey (talk) 19:14, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much, but which article? DavidAHull (talk) 19:38, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

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Template:Cockermouth & Workington Railway

A couple of questions:

1. Why did you duplicate Template:Cockermouth and Workington Railway RDT? and
2. Why the use of

{{GNoSR colour}}	Sample:		ffe02b	Great North of Scotland Railway
{{HR colour}}	Sample:		ffff00	Highland Railway

for the header of a L&NWR line? Useddenim (talk) 22:42, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello again, thank you for asking. In a word, incompetence:-

1. I duplicated Template:Cockermouth and Workington Railway RDT because it seemed to be tied to the article about the railway. Specifically, I couldn't figure out how to make collapse work if I used the RDT template with individual stations, so I made a copy of the innards and adapted that to headings and footings I copied from your masterworks, notably Duckmanton Junction. I would love to know how to square the circle, as I've had to spend time this evening making changes to both versions, eg moving Workington Bridge railway station to its proper place west of Workington Bridge Junction.

2. The yellow header is incompetence pure and simple. In the context of previous/next boxes I know of some colours, such as LNWR or GCR, but don't know how to apply appropriate colours to route diagram headers. Once again, I'd welcome being shown how and shown where a list of established railway colours is kept.

WP:WikiProject UK Railways/Colours list Useddenim (talk) 15:29, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

3. A couple of years ago I came across a brilliant route diagram you'd done of Cumbria, but I can't find it now. Does it still exist?

Template:Cumbrian Coast Line RDT Useddenim (talk) 04:55, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

4. I've embarked on a project to update Cumbrian railways. I've been surprised to find how few stations have any article at all. Well hey, that's what I'm getting my teeth into, but I'm flummoxed when someone has made a station redirect to something else, such as a railway. A concrete example, not in Cumbria, but a clear example, is Runcorn Gap railway station which redirects to St Helens and Runcorn Gap Railway. As I can't stop it redirecting I can't write an article. Can you please show me what to do?

I really appreciate you taking the trouble to follow this up.

Kind regards

Dave DavidAHull (talk) 23:28, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean you "can't stop it redirecting"? It's not protected, and is therefore editable by anybody. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:56, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Redrose: I can't stop it redirecting because I can't land on it. If I search for Runcorn Gap railway station it comes back with the railway, so I'm stuck outside a loop which I can't penetrate.

Go to Runcorn Gap railway station. At the top you will see the page title ("St Helens and Runcorn Gap Railway") and the standard message "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" as usual. Below those it says "(Redirected from Runcorn Gap railway station)". What happens when you click that link? --Redrose64 (talk) 00:31, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Redrose: Aha! It's easy when you know how. That's unlocked quite a few doors for me. Thank you. DaveDavidAHull (talk) 01:56, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Marron Junction

With regard to Marron Junction that you show on the line of the Cockermouth and Workington Railway, can you look at the Wikipedia line diagram of the Whitehaven, Cleator and Egremont Railway, where you will see the correct position for this station, above that of Bridgefoot but below the junction of that line with the Cockermouth and Workington Railway.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk)

Paul: please see my reply in your talk page, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 00:16, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I have seen your reply on my talk page with regard to the previously discussed matter of Marron Junction and I need to draw your attention to the Wikipedia article on the Whitehaven, Cleator and Cockermouth Railway where the matter is shown on two sections of the main body of the article:-

1. ...In the "overview" panel at the top right-hand corner, under the "terminal stations" section, Marron Junction is shown, together with two others.
2. ... In the main text body of the article, under the heading of "northern section", you will find Marron Junction also mentioned there.

It is not up to me to cast aspersions on those who compliled the article on the Whitehaven, Cleator and Egremont Railway who chose to enter the Marron Junction information into the two sections that I have shown above.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Paul: Aspersions??

I've had another good look at the Whitehaven, Cleator and Egremont Railway article:

1. the overview panel makes a red mention of Marron Junction because no such article exists. The route diagram in the overview box shows Marron Junction, but not Marron Junction railway station. I will edit the route diagram in my next session to show a triangular junction there. I may add Marron Junction railway station for completeness, but I'm mindful of clutter.
2. I've had another good look at the list of places of interest in the "Northern section" part of the main body. once again it mentions Marron Junction, but not the station.

I see that several of the places in that section are places, not stations. My current mission is to work my way round the old Cumberland filling such gaps, of which there are quite a lot.

I see Wikipedia as cumulative, others fill gaps in my contributions and I try to do likewise. Filling gaps implies no criticism and certainly no aspersions; not by me anyway.

With best wishes

Dave DavidAHull (talk) 01:56, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

St Bees Golf Halt railway station

I have moved this page to Draft:St Bees Golf Halt railway station as it does not have any content yet. BC108 (talk) 19:52, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

According to Butt, R. V. J. (October 1995). The Directory of Railway Stations: details every public and private passenger station, halt, platform and stopping place, past and present (1st ed.). Sparkford: Patrick Stephens Ltd. p. 202. ISBN 978-1-85260-508-7. OCLC 60251199. OL 11956311M., the station opened 30 June 1910 and closed 5 February 1918. Hope this helps! Optimist on the run (talk) 20:26, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

More than you can imagine, I have to make a 20 mile round trip to see Butt in Crosby Library! Can you please give me the page number? Cheers Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:00, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have added that - it's page 202. The template I used in my comment above can be used directly as a reference. Optimist on the run (talk) 08:44, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Cleator Moor West railway station

I have started the article Cleator Moor West railway station. Please expand it if you can. It is unclear to me which railway company operated it. Biscuittin (talk) 21:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC) Thanks for your encouragement, I've got most of the data ready, but I'm still working my way down the Whitehaven, Cleator and Egremont Railway towards Sellafield, finding halts as I go! I would hope to crack this and start on the Cleator and Workington Junction Railway working north from Cleator Moor West in a week or so's time. Cheers Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:00, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. That's good. Biscuittin (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Rosehill article

Hi, I've put in what I hope is a cleaner placeholder text on this article. Hope that's OK. Blythwood (talk) 21:38, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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Template:West Cumbrian Railways

Please review… Thanks. Useddenim (talk) 00:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Aha! I wrote to you a few weeks ago about a fabulous RD of West Cumbria - this is it! Before owt else, this is a masterpiece, I congratulate you on it. As always with every RD, what is its scope? I have embarked on my own Cumbrian project to ensure that every station, public, private, workmen's or whatever has a Wikipedia article. That makes my job at once easy - every means every - and hard - every means a lot, but hey, I'm not going anywhere! Template:West Cumbrian Railways has some never public stations, such as Dovenby Lodge and St Thomas Cross Platform, does it aspire to all? On what is there already, a few gremlins catch my eye:

• 1) Please compare your Harrington Junction to Lowca with the one I'm working on as we speak, ie Template:Lowca Light Railway and Gilgarran Branch the detailed spelling of Rosehill (Archer Street Halt) has yours showing in red, but you omit Harrington (Church Road Halt), thereby throwing Copperas Hill wrong side of Rose Hill Junction.
• 2) Please compare your Moor Row to Beckermet section with Template:Whitehaven, Cleator and Egremont Railway RDT where I believe the sequence of stops is correct, please also see that Beckermet Mines (workmen only, ever) was off on a branch.
• 3) I've never come across Parkside can you please point me to evidence showing it. Whatever it is, it isn't the Parkside to which it is linked, which is a hundred miles away in Derbyshire.
• 4) Keekle Halt is Keekle Colliers' Platform
• 5) You omit Oatlands between Arlecdon and the flyover bridge to its north
• 6) You omit Marron Junction and represent the junction itself as two-way, it was triangular until Edwardian times.

I reckon that'll do for now. I really appreciate you asking me to contribute, I will be pleased to continue to do so if it helps.

DaveDavidAHull (talk) 08:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I noticed your recent template update of the Carlisle and Silloth Bay Railway, which includes four stations that were not shown on the original line template, so as the master West Cumbrian Railways line template includes this line, I have asked useddenim if he will be so kind as to update that particular template when he has the time to do that task.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 14:06, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I hope you haven't jumped the gun, I'm still researching Port Carlisle Junction station where sources are very confusing. I suspect, but can't yet prove, that it was never a halt on the Silloth line at all, only on the Waverley route, in which case it will need moving again. This, despite Quick showing it as on my revised Route Diagram. I've found two photos of the Up (northbound) platform perhaps 150 yards north of the junction and none showing anything at the junction itself or just to the Silloth side, nor have I found any mention in the heaps of Silloth material I've studied, only in NBR material. The plot thickens!

Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 21:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Great Grimsby Street Tramways

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Great Grimsby Street Tramways, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Grimsby_District_Light_Railway.

It is possible that the bot was mistaken and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.

If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 19:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

the material in this article was (wrongly, in my view) in the article Grimsby District Light Railway (GDLR). I put out notices to that effect in its talk page and got no response, so, after a period of waiting I created a self-contained article for the Great Grimsby material then cut and pasted the material over from the GDLR article. I had no problem with the material except that it was in an article for a quite separate concern - rather like an article about Manchester United containing material about Manchester City.

I have no idea if the contents were lifted from somewhere else, I didn't write them.

Do with them as you wish, but please don't put them back in the GDLR article! DavidAHull (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

PS, please note that the offending content has been in Wikipedia since about 2011 without, as far as I can see, anyone saying Boo.DavidAHull (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

You realise you're talking to a bot? There won't be a response from them. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:26, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I assumed that at some point a human would look at the offending material and make a decision on whether to zap it. Have I written these comments in the wrong place for that to happen? DavidAHull (talk) 07:02, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Have a look at the instructions on the article, in the box beginning "The CorenSearchBot has performed a web search with the contents of this page". --Redrose64 (talk) 14:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I've now had a look at the Grace's Guide material and I reckon the Bot's right, it is a straight lift, including the core error; Grace's entitles the text Grimsby District Light Railway so as far as I'm concerned it can be zapped. I don't have the time to create a proper Grimsby Tramways article, if and when I do so I'll create it in an OK manner.DavidAHull (talk) 17:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I have restored the material that I removed on the 11th. Sorry for the mistake. The bot got the source wrong. I hunted for it on Wikipedia, but since you had already removed the material from the source page, I did not find it. Copying within Wikipedia is of course permitted, but attribution is required. At a minimum, you are supposed to do this by saying in the edit summary on the destination article which article we copied the material from. There's also templates available, which should have been used in this case. This problem would have been avoided if that would have been done. I have restored the material and added the required attribution, but note there's a problem with the citations. I have taken a guess at what they are supposed to be, but if you could check, that would be great. — Diannaa (talk) 21:52, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for this. I don't really understand the toings and froings to be honest, but it's a rare and pleasant thing in Wikiland to read statements like "Sorry for the mistake." You guessed correctly about the first Price reference, well done. I'm afraid I don't have the Tramway Review book, so I can't confirm or refute the second, but it sounds plausible. I suggest we now let it rest, as nobody seems overbothered and the content is and always has been pretty good, it was just wrongly associated with the Grimsby District Light Railway which was another business altogether. All the best, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Great Grimsby Street Tramways

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A tag has been placed on Great Grimsby Street Tramways requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. This article or image appears to be a direct copy from http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Grimsby_District_Light_Railway. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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A page you started (Micklam railway station) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Micklam railway station, DavidAHull!

Wikipedia editor Ibadibam just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

The further reading list seems to be mostly copied from Lowca Light Railway, and it might be worth reducing it to only those sources that specifically pertain to this station.

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Copperas Hill railway station

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Rose Hill Platform railway station

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Talkback

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Message added 02:27, 2 March 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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Disambiguation link notification for March 12

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Disambiguation link notification for March 19

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Ambiguity sections

Regarding this edit - it has been pointed out before, some years ago (when you started doing it) - maybe not on your talk page, maybe not regarding Shirebrook North railway station specifically, but I have done it. Where a page title is ambiguous (see WP:SIMILAR) we put a hatnote at the very top; where the articles are related but not ambiguously named, we might create a WP:SEEALSO section near the bottom. What we do not do is place sections called "Ambiguity" early in the article. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 11

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Disambiguation link notification for June 23

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Holy Island Waggonway has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, DavidAHull. Holy Island Waggonway, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:02, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

References

Hi, re this edit: please use the appropriate template (it should be {{cite magazine}})) and do not misuse the parameters. The author is not "and Wherefore The Why", that's a corruption of the title of the section in the magazine. I've fixed it up like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:06, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate you fixing it, now I know of this syntax I've followed suit elsewhere.DavidAHull (talk) 22:29, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Penrhyn Quarry Railway

Two new maps have today been added to the article on Penrhyn Quarry Railway. I hope they are as accurate as they should. The cartographer wants to know, where the 'Llandegai flint mill' was. Have you already found any traces of it? --NearEMPTiness (talk) 18:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

The cartographer himself: I guess I found it here. This would much the line shape of the existing graphic and is also the place on this pages.--Pechristener (talk) 18:06, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

• 
• 
• 

The maps are wonderful! Warm thanks, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 19:58, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I've done articles on the stations on the Snowdon Mountain Railway and the Llanberis Lake Railway and therefore been able to improve the DRAFT Railways to Dinorwic route diagram as below: {{Railways to Dinorwic}}

Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Holy Island Waggonway

On 19 July 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Holy Island Waggonway, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that ships were moored between two jetties of the Holy Island Waggonway for unloading coal and loading lime? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Holy Island Waggonway. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Holy Island Waggonway), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:16, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled

Have you considered asking for autopatrolled status at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled? I notice that you're creating a lot of new articles and it looks like you know what you're doing, so having autopatrolled status would keep your articles out of the new unreviewed pages log. Thanks, shoy (reactions) 13:59, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for this vote of confidence. I'll see if I can cite it in a request for autopatrolled status.DaveDavidAHull (talk) 16:33, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi DavidAHull, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Lord Roem ~ (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank youDavidAHull (talk) 22:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations. The next "level" in this "game", where initially nobody knows that some levels exist, would be changing the user name from red to blue by giving a little introduction about yourself and your Wikiwork on your User page. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 23:34, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. How do I change it? DaveDavidAHull (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Click here, type something in, and save. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:34, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. DaveDavidAHull (talk) 20:48, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

A virtual trip to the Volcano mine

On a rainy day, I want to invite you to read (and if you want improve) the new narrow gauge article about Puente Alto-El Volcan Railway. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 07:52, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for drawing this to my attention. I know precisely nothing about South American railways, so I can only contribute the same amount to the factual side of the article.

It reads as if it has been translated into English by a machine or someone with a good grasp of English, but who isn't a native speaker. It seems borderline insulting for me to go wading in to make the English more natural. Are you sure it would be an OK thing to do?

Kind regards

DaveDavidAHull (talk) 20:27, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Appreciation!

		The Wales Barnstar
		For taking the time and care to update articles of Welsh interest - notably railways - to a high level. Diolch. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 14:21, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Wow! Thank you very much, I've never had such a thing before. Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 17:31, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Congratutions, this is a well earned barnstar, indeed. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 17:11, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 12

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Grimsby and Immingham Electric Railway stations

You may be interested in adding your tuppence to this conversation. Useddenim (talk) 01:04, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to see it and maybe join in, but I can't find it. Please tell me how to do so. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 08:11, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#Grimsby and Immingham Electric Railway stations. Useddenim (talk) 11:07, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

That unique 14 1⁄4 inch track gauge

Hi. I am maintaining {{Track gauge}} aka {{Railgauge}}, mainly to build a tough base of well-defined track gauges. Today, it has 269 definitions.

Editor Peter Horn noticed that you added to Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway the gauge of 14 1⁄4 inch, sourced by Scott. This gauge is not yet in the {{Track gauge}} list, so it is a new and unique gauge (not mentioned elsewhere on this wiki). My question is: can you please check and confirm that the source mentions this gauge? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the list &tc. -DePiep (talk) 18:32, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for contacting me. Before anything else, congratulations on and thanks for {{Track gauge}} aka {{Railgauge}} which is a fine asset. There is no question that the railway ran bearing the self-inflicted wound of 14 1⁄4 inch gauge from 1972 to 1994. Scott refers to it several times and devotes an indented half page of text to the subject alone on page 59. I've scanned it for your info, but don't know how to send it to you! Scott's history of the railway is a serious work of scholarship. In essence, the likeliest explanation is that it was a cock-up, with the track suppliers interpreting the request for "quarter scale" literally (which would result in 14 and one eigth) and the loco suppliers understanding the order to be for 15", the two nitwits not talking until track was laid and the loco suppliers turned up and tried to run them! The owners were Cleethorpes Council, who neither had nor claimed technical know-how. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 20:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

When all else fails, ask DePiep for his Email address and send him a note adding those scans as attachments. Peter Horn User talk 20:38, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

No need to send me a copy (you can upload it to wiki commons, would be nice). I am convinced about the seriousness of source&editor and so this unique gauge will be added. (It just happens that other weird gauges are less sure to be sourced). This is the first new gauge added in2 1⁄2 years! And you know there will be a dedicated category added to Category:Articles that mention a specific track gauge too?

Now this question. I'm not English-ish, so can you tell me how that "quarter scale" order ended up into 14 1⁄4? A language misunderstanding? A quarter of 57" = 4 ft 9 in (1,448 mm)? Stupid it was (especially by keeping the rolling stock, not adjust the rails...). In 1972! -DePiep (talk) 21:52, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello again. An exact "quarter scale" model of anything - a locomotive, a plane, a building or whatever - would have all dimensions reduced to one quarter (25%). So a quarter scale of a building 100 metres high would be 25 metres tall, a quarter scale diagram of a sewer with a diameter of 8 metres would show its diameter as 2 metres. A "one tenth scale" model of the same building would be 10 metres high and the sewer would be 80 centimetres across.

Standard gauge tracks are set at 4ft 8.5in apart, which is the same as 56.5 inches apart, so a "quarter scale" version of that would set the tracks as 56.5/4 inches apart, which is 14.125 inches apart, ie 14 and 1/8th inches apart. That is not exactly 14 and 1/4inches apart, but its the nearest thing to some sort or explanation of how a railway could have got something so wrong. As I wrote in my parts of the CCLR article, the consequences for the railway were non-trivial.

Please let me know if this doesn't make sense to you. Best wishes, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Clear now: a quarter of standard gauge. Did not read that in the article (could have missed that). -DePiep (talk) 23:16, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

A starter required

Hello David,
Perhaps you could start Bigges Main and Kenton and Coxlodge and at the same time help determine if the track gauge was 4 ft 7 1⁄4n or 5 ft 7 1⁄4n. See Template talk:Track gauge#A new one and Standard gauge#Origins. @DePiep: Peter Horn User talk 21:18, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Now that sounds like fun! I wonder what country the line was in? I've had a go at buying the book (isbn=0715340042 oclc=643482297, by the way) but it would set me back £45 which would incur domestic disciplinary action. I've found a phone number to ring.... I'll be back. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:08, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

You want me to buy it in euros? Over here, £ prices look like 2nd hand prices nowadays. -DePiep (talk) 23:22, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I might take you up on that. Liverpool University Library's website says they have a copy.I will phone them tomorrow and see if I can access it, otherwise its available from Amazon from the USA. I'll get back to you when I've phoned the university. DaveDavidAHull (talk) 23:31, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Wait wait. That was a joke. I'm not allowed to talk with English people any more or so. Again, more of your 'domestic issues' over there. Glad to hear the your phone with Liverpool still works. -DePiep (talk) 23:38, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm. Let's stick to railways, 14 1⁄4 inch is quite enough insanity for me. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

I visited Liverpool University library today and studied Baxter's fine book. I have written my trip up in the Track Gauges talk page. To be honest I'm not very clear whether this is the correct way to reply to the two people who have been so kind as to contact me, who I believe to be DePiep and Peter Horn. Please acknowledge or put me right. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 17:09, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, DavidAHull. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

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Red links

Hello @DavidAHull:,
The following articles have sections that contain any number of "red links"

• British narrow gauge railways
• British industrial narrow gauge railways
• British military narrow gauge railways
• British quarrying and mining narrow gauge railways
  In order to avoid duplicate articles, carefully check that the subject is not already covered by an article with a slightly different name or perhaps by an appropriate section within an existing article. Eg, I made [[Blenheim Palace Railway]] Blenheim Palace Railway, listed in British narrow gauge railways, redirect to Blenheim Park Railway. An appropriate redirect will avoid a duplicate stub or a duplicate article. This will keep you busy for a while, old chap. Peter Horn User talk 18:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@DavidAHull: Add to that 2 ft and 600 mm gauge railways in the United Kingdom. Peter Horn User talk 19:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Get thee behind me, Satan. I will open these Pandora's boxes occasionally, they look far too tempting when I have no end of projects in progress (eg finishing off Padarn Railway, Cumbria and Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway), projects in preparation (NE Wales, Shetland, Orkney, Ryedale & Workmen's trains) projects at the dream stage (quarry lines at Arenig and dam builders' lines at Maentwrog/Trawsfynydd and LDECR & MR Joint Railway.) I really enjoyed St Michael's Mount tramway, which I'd never heard of and have learned a lot from you while doing it. I'll keep your list of delights for rainy days. Thank you for drawing them to my attention Old Bean. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 20:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Some additional "red links" in {{Historical Welsh railway companies}}
Peter Horn User talk 22:48, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: I can resist everything except temptation. DavidAHull (talk) 06:11, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Hmmmm, I had a look at {{Historical Welsh railway companies}} to look for the Merionethshire Railway which I'd recently written and (I thought) added to it. It wasn't there. I thought simply by adding it to the bottom of the article it would be entered automatically. I've now added it by hand. Is it underperforming, or me? Dave DavidAHull (talk) 06:25, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

{{Historical Welsh railway companies}} is a navbox, and these are no different from most other templates: they need manual update, they don't detect changes automatically. Even if they could update automatically, how would this one know that Merionethshire Railway should have been added? It can't. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:54, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

By me adding it to the Merionethshire Railway article. Until this conversation, I took the Historical Welsh... to be the same sort of animal as "Disused railway stations in Gwynedd", "Railway stations opened in 1875" and their ilk.DavidAHull (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

You're mixing up templates with categories. If you add a category to a page (such as [[Category:Disused railway stations in Gwynedd]], the page is automatically listed at the category's page (such as Category:Disused railway stations in Gwynedd). This is not true of templates - or indeed, any other page - it is a characteristic of categories only. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:51, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

"Mission accomplished". Peter Horn User talk 13:43, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Track gauge templates

Hello David,
Just to let you know that Template:RailGauge has been depreciated and replaced with Template:Track gauge. Peter Horn User talk 14:22, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@DavidAHull: Similarly mixed gauge now redirects to dual gauge and gauge conversion redirects to track gauge conversion. Peter Horn User talk 14:30, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Sounds like I'd better steer clear. Thanks for the warnings. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 14:32, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Don't take it too hard, life is a "learning curve" until one is put in the "pine box". Peter Horn User talk 14:40, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@DavidAHull: Not Pine box? Life is but a redirect. Over and out. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 14:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: The term is "deprecated", not "depreciated". But see WP:NOTBROKEN, it applies to all redirects (including template), not just article redirs: so {{RailGauge}} is just as valid as {{Track gauge}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Redrose64: @DavidAHull: What's in a typo or spelling error. We all know what was intended. Peter Horn User talk 22:17, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

West Somerset Mineral Railway

Hi, Thanks for your edits to West Somerset Mineral Railway which have really helped to improve the article. I asked on the articles talk page a while ago what else people thought was needed to get the article to meet the Good article criteria, with a response that more was needed about the mining, but I would say the article is about the railway specifically. My only thought is that the lead may need to be expanded to summarise the article. Do you think anything else is needed/would you like to nominate the article for GA?— Rod ^talk 10:18, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

@Rodw: Dear Rod, thank you for your kind remarks. I fear seeking Good Article status is a hiding to nothing. All the Donowts have to do is keep saying "do this" and "do that" where "this" and "that" are unbounded vague thoughts and we as writers have to try to please the unpleasable. I settle for doing my best and let the Clever Dicks imagine they are scoring their own little points. I have worked collaboratively with positive people on Holy Island Waggonway and St Michael's Mount Tramway and templates such as Duckmanton Junction, I would be happy to do the same with you on the WSMR. If others come along with specific suggestions I'll be pleased to pursue them if possible. Best wishes. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 18:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I have not had the same experience from GA reviewers - generally I have found them constructive and wanting to improve the articles. I'll take another look at the article and see if I can see anything else which needs improving - would you then be happy if I nominate it (we could even make it a joint nomination as you have done the majority of recent work)? I will also put a note on the talk pages of User:Britmax & User:Geof Sheppard as they have also made significant & substantial contributions.— Rod ^talk 18:58, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

@Rodw: Please fire away, if you receive any constructive, achievable feedback I'll be pleased to give it my best shots. Good luck, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 20:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Pheasant Express

Dear David

I noted with great interest the eye witness account about the Lincolnshire potato railways. I found another article on this Pheasant Express which you might enjoy as well. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 19:02, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello again, good to hear from you. The Pheasant Express article is smashing, thank you. I'm up to my ears in the West Somerset Mineral Railway ay the moment, but I managed to get hod of a copy of the standard work on the potato railways last Saturday. I will turn my attention to it before to long. I really enjoyed working with you on Holy Island Waggonway and hope we will be able to collaborate once more. I especially value the way you come up with things I'd never thought of and sources I'd never heard of. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the update. I am currently working on unusual goods to be transported by narrow gauge railways, for instance a Hungarian fishery train. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 23:20, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

That sounds fun! Do you mean unusual regular goods or do you include one-offs? I'll keep my eye out anyway. Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 10:53, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for keeping me in mind, if you find an English article about a querky railway line. By the way: Did you know that Tandy Center Subway was, during the period of its operation, the only privately owned subway in the United States? --NearEMPTiness (talk) 20:14, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

My favourite oddball railway is the Spurn Head Railway, but it has probably been done to death. All of Colonel Stephens' lines were definitely quirky, but are also pretty well covered. I have a copy of Jermy's book on Northumberland minor railways (he did pioneering work on Holy Island if you recall.) I haven't used his masterpiece for anything other than H I Waggonway. I suggest indexes of back copies of "Railway Bylines" could be fruitful, they specialise in the weird and wonderful. Kind regards, Dave. DavidAHull (talk) 20:23, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Great! --NearEMPTiness (talk) 23:49, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Does gunpowder count as unusual? Low Wood Gunpowder Works seems to have had a ng railway before a "proper" branch. I've never heard of this line..."odd branch 1". or this "odd branch 2". In my home town of Bolsover a ng line was built as an integral part of the 1890s "Model Village" of New Bolsover, it was part of the colliery's lines (probably 2ft gauge) and carried coal to the houses and night soil away. I'd love to work with you on that one! There were several ng railways on Orkney and Shetland, some were military, others to do with fishing and a few with minerals. I have small, specialist books on both island groups' railways. The Festiniog Railway had (still has, I think) a coffin van. A traffic now lost to railways was carrying racing (homing) pigeons; it was big enough to warrant special vehicles. A regular fish offal train ran for years in the Grimsby area, not ng though. Horses were common for haulage and shunting, but a mule-hauled line existed in Somerset 1918-1920, see West Somerset Mineral Railway. Before refrigeration the carriage of ice between Scandinavia and London (for example) was significant (I once had dealings with a company based in former ice house next to the Thames), did railways carry ice from glacier to port? Carriage of iron ore was and remains commonplace, but what about less well-known minerals? Many sewage works had ng or monorail internal lines, eg Esholt in Yorkshire. Just a few thoughts to keep you awake. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:19, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Re: British English

{{Use British English}} is useful for identifying/monitoring articles for spelling consistency, and for any editing tools or article searches that may support that - for example, the EngvarB script. {{EngvarB}} is also useful where a national variant is unclear. Hope this helps explain things. Dl2000 (talk) 01:55, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll use it hereon. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 01:59, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Mining on the Brendon Hills

I have recently noticed that lots of the dates for pits on the Brendon Hills give different dates to those in the Historic Environment Record. It is possible that they haven't been updated with new research but it might be worth us mentioning that different dates are used by different sources. This search should take you to some of the pages I'm looking at.— Rod ^talk 14:56, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

It also appears that most of Jones research (which ended up as a the book) can be found in this search.— Rod ^talk 15:50, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I've followed your welcome suggestion and added links to the Exmoor site, but I can't see an entry for Timwood, is there one? Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:32, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

There is this on Timwood Adit.— Rod ^talk 09:05, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 17:41, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

I have nominated WSMR for GA & called it a joint nomination between us as you did so much work. I have no idea how long it will be before anyone picks it up but their comments should be at Talk:West Somerset Mineral Railway/GA1 when they do.— Rod ^talk 20:35, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

OK, let's suck it and see. I've never been involved in such a process before. Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 21:27, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@Rodw:Dear Rod, I've come across this, which states that Jones's masterpiece is but a shortened version of his two volume life's work!! ^{"Jones's life's work" (PDF).}

Aldershot Narrow Gauge Suspension Railway

Military Narrow-Gauge Railway, South Camp, Aldershot, 1872

On my search for unusual narrow gauge railways, I fould some beautiful engravings of the Aldershot Narrow Gauge Suspension Railway, which might be of interest to you. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 07:50, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Wow! Very interesting. I believe there was a Fell railway near Barrow-in-Furness, but I don't have details to hand. Have you seen this site? http://www.ingr.co.uk/englist.html Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 08:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 10

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Golborne North railway station

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Newchurch Halt railway station

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Disambiguation link notification for March 20

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Cockermouth & Workington Railway

Template:Cockermouth & Workington Railway has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Useddenim (talk) 13:29, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

What is the thinking behind the proposed deletion of this template?

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 23:23, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't see why this should be deleted, it accompanies and reflects a high quality article of the same name. I reject the proposal until I hear more of the logic.DavidAHull (talk) 06:38, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

You're about three months too late: the template was deleted on 1 April after the statutory minimum seven days. The thinking was outlined at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 March 23#Template:Cockermouth & Workington Railway, where you had plenty of time to oppose the deletion. In brief: the template was unused, and duplicated Template:Cockermouth and Workington Railway RDT.

But if you really want to get Template:Cockermouth & Workington Railway back, you should first discuss the matter with the closing administrator, Primefac (talk · contribs); and try to resolve it with them. If you and the admin cannot work out a satisfactory solution, there is WP:DRV. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:38, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

If it was a duplicate that's fine.DavidAHull (talk) 22:07, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Don't bother; they were nearly identical. The biggest difference—IIRC—was the colour of the title bar. Useddenim (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway

David - thanks for your contributions to our railways Wikipedia page. Could you please contact us at the railway to discuss? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.236.197 (talk) 21:00, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I have emailed your info address giving my contact details. I hope we can get in touch. Best wishes, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 21:32, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Dyserth branch line

About the Dyserth branch line. Since you have discovered and documented that unique track gauge (2 ft 7 in), I hope you will add that to the article. When that happens (in a section maybe?), I will add it to the template. Best way to write it: {{Track gauge|2 ft 7 in}}, will look good before & after me adding it. The glory should be yours. -DePiep (talk) 19:46, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm deflected by other interests at the moment. When I get back to Wikipedia I'll definitely take your kind advice. Best wishes, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:45, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Beighton Junction detail2

Template:Beighton Junction detail2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 16:30, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of West Somerset Mineral Railway

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article West Somerset Mineral Railway you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. I just noticed the User:Rodw may be out of action, and this notice did not get copied to your user page automatically. Bob1960evens (talk) 13:40, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know. I look forward to your observations. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 14:52, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Lakeside Miniature Railway

I note your recent developments on this line and it took me back to days long ago when as a child, I was always taken for a ride upon it every time the family visited Southport

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 23:16, 29 June 2017 (UTC) Thank you for this. Do you have any photos of the line, the pier railway or BR in Southport? Kind regards, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 06:33, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. The old family photographic albums were sent down to the Gloucester area many years ago.

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 19:48, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello DavidAHull. The request for changing the name of the file was on Commons. Your revert of my edit just changed the file from a direct link to a redirect. Regards, --Gereon K. (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean, but I'm sure you're right. As long as the reader doesn't suffer you can do as you please. It just seems a pity to replace the equivalent of "No 10 Downing Street, London, Mrs M Thatcher" with "Southern England".DavidAHull (talk) 21:37, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ellis' Railway Encyclopaedia3R

Template:Ellis' Railway Encyclopaedia3R has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 01:57, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

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Cromford and High Peak Railway

Can I draw your attention to the guidance at WP:Further reading (particularly "A large part, if not all, of the work should be directly about the subject of the article" and "However, the section should be limited in size. Wikipedia is not a catalogue of all existing works") and WP:ELNO (particularly "one should generally avoid providing external links to...any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article" and "Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: the link should be directly related to the subject of the article."). Wikipedia is not a reading list or a directory of links. I lack the subject expertise to prune the lists myself but, although I commend your enthusiasm, in my opinion the appendices at Cromford and High Peak Railway are far too long. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:36, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice, which I take kindly. The list is indeed too long, what I am doing is assembling resources before (re)writing the article instead of what I have done in the past, ie (re)write book by book. The last few articles I got stuck into (eg Cawood, Wistow and Selby Light Railway) had very little, but I find the C&HP has far more than I expected, so it has growed and growed. As I get stuck into writing the list will self prune as, for example, I move external links to photos to the individual item (most of which haven't got an article of their own at present, please see the route diagram.) If when I'm done and dusted there turn out to be any resources unused I'll chuck 'em away, but on prima facie evidence so far, most resources have something unique to evidence, even if it is just one 19th Century photo. There is a Cunning Plan, honest! Dave DavidAHull (talk) 17:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks David. I'll await the outcome with interest. Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Dave.Dunford: Hello again. I've embarked on my first article on features on the CHPR - Gotham Curve - making use of the research work discussed above, which has proved invaluable. It has led so far to pruning a grand total of one item from the External links section in the main CHPR article. This isn't surprising really, as items would only be moved if they related only to Gotham, but most source material, such as books, refer to many places on the line. I would welcome your observations before I spend a zillion hours going along unwise routes. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 23:26, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Gotham Curve looks good (I made a small edit). Sounds like your understanding of WP:ELNO more-or-less matches mine. Dave.Dunford (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

@Dave.Dunford: I've embarked on Hopton Incline. If you fear I'm heading in any wrong directions I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me sooner rather than later. Lots still to do to it, but the shape and borrowings between this and Gotham Curve should be clear to you, but are they ok and will they be ok for other features yet to start? Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:10, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Gotham Curve

@NearEMPTiness: Hello! I'm sure I saw a message from you come up on my screen a day or two ago, but I managed to lose it unread except for the first couple of words and I can't find it anywhere. Please either a) tell me I'm completely crackers or b) send it to me here. I'm getting stuck into the Cromford and High Peak Railway. I've expanded the route diagram and done initial research into resources, which turn out to be amazing, I put them into the CHPR's article which just growed and growed and growed..... I remember fondly working with you on Holy Island Waggonway. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 22:57, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

@DavidAHull: I think, I just pressed the thank you button, after reading about this unusual piece of railway "engineering". I am currently working on the Taiping Mountain Forest Railway and its extension, the Luodong Forest Railway, of which a 3.9 km section is being recommissioned for heritage trains. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 07:19, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@NearEMPTiness: I've had a look at your Chinese exploits and will watch developments with interest. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 08:50, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

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Your draft article, Draft:St Bees Golf Halt railway station

Hello, DavidAHull. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "St Bees Golf Halt railway station".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. TKK! bark with me! 15:29, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Is it still planned to produce a fully detailed Wikipedia article on St Bees Golf Halt railway station? We discussed that matter quite a while ago when you were deeply involved in the railways of the Cumbria area on Wikipedia.

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 09:36, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Happy New Year. Yes, I aim to return to Cumbria, but I'm up to my ears with other things on and off Wikipedia, so it is likely to be months rather than weeks before I can back to St Bees. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Routemaps

Hi David, I've an interest in the former local railways around Leigh, Lancashire. I've noticed that you've produced some excellent route diagrams for the area. I do a fair bit of my browsing using a tablet and most of the BS-map style diagrams get corrupted, would you mind if I tried to upgrade them to the newer Routemap style, which displays properly on them. Regards Colin Langdon 11:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colinlangdon (talk • contribs)

Dear Colin, thank you very much for doing me the courtesy of asking. I'll be delighted if you can upgrade them. Best wishes, DaveDavidAHull (talk) 14:10, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Tasmanian Tramways

Dear David

I am just returning from a virtual trip to Tasmania, where I found three very peculiar waggonways, which might be of interest to you:

The Marrawah Tramway was a forest railway near Marrawah in Tasmania with a gauge of 3 ft 6 in (1,067 mm).

Grubb's Tramway (Mowbray) was a partially completed, private logging tram line in Tasmania from the junction of the Launceston-George Town Road at the Tamar River near Mowbray to a saw mill at Pipers River.

Grubb's Tramway (Zeehan) was a more than two miles long horse-drawn light railway in Western Tasmania. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 17:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

@NearEMPTiness:Happy New Year! I've finally had the opportunity to sit down and enjoy these three interesting articles. Thank you for writing them and thank you for drawing them to my attention. If I may make an observation, the Marrawah Tramway article seems to stop in mid air in the 1920s, but it soldiered on for a long time after that. Do you intend to return to it to cover the later period? I hope so, because it's smashing stuff. Kind regards, Dave DavidAHull (talk) 10:53, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. Let's see, what I can find. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 11:09, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Liverpool, St Helens and S Lancashire Railway

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Festiniog railway station

A user seems to have expressed significant displeasure at your page move of Festiniog railway station back in 2016. I've asked them to come and talk to you, but you might want to just review this. I've also requested a history merge as you seem to have done a copy and paste move back in the day. Happy editing. :) TheDragonFire (talk) 02:55, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Dear TheDragonFire. Thank you for this and for restoring the article. As Promisemenopromises doesn't appear to have read past the first word of the article, in particular as far as the opening paragraph, and from the subtlety of his or her remark I can't be bothered replying to him or her, though I will if s/he addresses me direct. As I am sure you appreciate, whilst it is indeed arguable that the station SHOULD have been called Ffestiniog or Llan Ffestiniog, in fact it WAS called Festiniog to the very end. Season's greetings. DavidAHull (talk) 09:33, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Fair. Have a great festive season! TheDragonFire (talk) 09:43, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

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Geography

Hello David I recently was looking at your Doe Lea and Clowne Branch line pages. I noticed you placed Bolsover castle and Clowne South among others in the Chesterfield Borough. Now I'm sure you didn't mean to but the actual borough is Bolsover Borough. The pages have and are being tweaked to correct the borough. Your not the only one to make the mistake someone even put Tenbury Wells as Shropshire despite it being in Worcestershire.

I'm not looking to argue I'm just pointing this out to you in case you see any changes. Kind regards and stay safe. RailwayJG (talk) 18:09, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

RailwayJG

• Oops, as I was born and brung up in Bozer these count as howlers. They are undoubtedly oversights, as I can't imagine I deliberately put Bolsover in Chesterfield, nul points for carelessness. Well spotted and thank you. Dave DavidAHull (talk) 01:54, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Glynllifon Street railway station

The article Glynllifon Street railway station has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This entire article rests on a single source, which is Festipedia, which is not a published source. That in turn contains a single unsourced sentence claiming this station existed. So, there isn't a single [[WP:RS

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Laplorfill (talk) 04:28, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

David, thank you for the note on my talk page. I took a look at your changes. Unfortunately, as they stand they do not help the article. You have added one source, but it is to another Festipedia page. Since Festipedia is a site anyone can edit, it is not considered a reliable source. The section you cite is itself unsourced on Festipedia, so it doesn't lend any credence to the claim about Glynllifon Street station. The rest of what you added is speculation, which unfortunately violates Wikipedia's pillar of not allowing orioginal research. What is needed are independent, published sources that would allow readers to verify that the station existed. At the moment there is nothing but unsourced speculation, I'm afraid. Can you provide such sources? Otherwise, the article should go through an AFD|deletion discussion. Thanks, Laplorfill (talk) 16:38, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello again, thank you for your civil and constructive approach. I'm afraid I have come to the end of evidence, solid or otherwise. Apart from deletion, is there anything which can be salvaged? We know (ie properly sourced) that the line was reguaged and that the northern terminus in Blaenau was closed in 1882, several months before the narrow hauge (ng) services ended. We know that ng services continued during reguaging right up to a few days before reopening as a standard gauge line. We know that the most southerly and the intermediate ng stations on the line remained open and that their footfall was miniscule compared with a northern terminus in Blaenau itself. We know that the company went to the trouble and expense of re-routing the line round the work on the viaduct north of the most northerly intermediate station (Tan y Manod), clearly implying that services continued north of Tan y Manod. All we don't know was where the services terminated during the reguaging period. I accept that the two websites don't conform to Wikipedia's provenance rules, but for the record I'd back them against some of the stuff published about railways in the region. I'm not a Ffestiniog Railway member, but if writings in any medium by society members are anything to go by some rivet counter will challenge inexactitudes within the hour. So, what, if anything, can be salvaged until the fabled postcard or timetable turns up? Kind regards, Dave

Hello David. Thinking more about this, here's a suggestion. I would merge the unique information from Glynllifon Street railway station into Diphwys railway station (Festiniog and Blaenau Railway), and make it clear that the existence of Glynllifion station is unsure. I'd have a separate section in the Diphwys article about Glynllifion. That way, you can refer to it, but not overstate the evidence. You can then redirect the Glynllifion article to the Diphwys one. If in the future, evidence is published, the standalone Glynllifion article can easily be revived. How does that sound? I'm happy to help with doing this. Best, Laplorfill (talk) 16:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Fine constructive thinking, thank you. I'll have a stab in the next few days and ask you to have a look. Out of interest, I have revisited Boyd, he gives the viaduct between Tan y Manod and Blaenau as being at 3 miles from Llan Ffestiniog, with the FBR Duffws terminus as 3m 32ch miles from Llan, so we have a maximum of 32 chains to play with to find the temporary terminus site. Looking closely at late 19th Century OS maps and rather rusty local knowledge my money is definitely on it being next to the Glynllifon St level crossing. I aim to try to contact Gwynedd Archives to see if they have copies of 1882/3 Blaenau area newspapers and/or FBR timetables or notices about arrangements. In the next few minutes I will copy the present Glynllifon St article to my Sandbox in case some zealot promptly zaps the public version. Best wishes, Dave.

I haven't done anything on the article as I was waiting for Gwynedd Archives to get back to me, which they have done today. They have told me what newspaper covered Blaenau in 1882-3 and that they don't have copies themselves, but that the Welsh Archives in Aberystwyth might, so that will be my next port of call, tomorrow or Wednesday. If not I'll approach the paper or its successor direct to see if they have archived copies. Fingers crossed. Dave

The Aberystwyth newspaper archive is available and searchable online: here. I've done a preliminary search, but couldn't find anything obvious. Laplorfill (talk) 21:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

I've just risked divorce by spending a few hours poring over the newspaper archive. There are fascinating snippets, such as a Festiniog and Blaenau carriage blowing over in high wind and being righted by passengers (Cambrian News 11 Feb 1881) but nothing on our central pursuit. The F&BR timetables disappear after 3 Nov 1882, presumably because the company was wound up, I can see no TT for the ng service thereafter. I'll have a further think about avenues to pursue, then, if no progress, I will draft a change as you suggested. A minor complication is that the TTs show the Festiniog running to Duffws and the F&BR to Diphwys (contrary to Boyd) until 1883 when the Festiniog TT shows them running to Diphwys! It's all good fun. Dave

I haven't been able to resist more digging in the wonderful Welsh newspaper archives. I haven't found any direct corroboration of our central quest, but lots of flesh to put on bones. Most importantly I have found evidence that the new Bala & Festiniog (GWR) station in Blaenau was delayed by ownership issues, and that, as per Boyd, ng trains ran up to a few days before sg opening, so we have an additional line of argument that there is a period when ng trains continued, but to not to Diphwys/Duffws. Though technically outside the scope of this particual conundrum the junket to celebrate the sg opening to Blaenau sounds to have been an extremely wordy affair, much enlivened by drink, according to the account of the event and subsequent complaint by an abstainer. I'll draft a paragraph during this week. I wonder how to get sight of the Ffestiniog Magazine article referred to in the Festipedia piece. Best wishes, Dave

Lest you imagine I've gone to sleep I have busied myself constructing a timeline for the conversion period drawing on Boyd, Butt and the rich vein of newspaper reports. Most things are consistent, though Butt has a couple wrong. Alas, they are all silent on the temporary terminus. I hope to draft a paragraph or two in the next day or two. Best wishes, Dave

Here is my first stab at the timeline, I hope to revisit it and sources this evening to check items and ad any I have missed. Needless to say, it hasn't answered to core conundrum.

Festiniog and Blaenau Railway regauging

January 1882 Invitation To Tender for contract to widen and convert the F&BR

February 1882 Widening contract let to Scott & Edwards, late contractors on Holyhead Docks

23 May 1882 F&BR EGM resolved the company be wound up voluntarily Boyd p67

July 1882 First through train from Bala to Llan Ffestiniog carrying VIPs, not the public

1 September 1882 Tenders invited to construct "a small Engine Shed at Bala and one at Festiniog and also a timber carriage shed at Festiniog"

October 1882 Discussion of half fares for schoolchildren from Festiniog and Tyddyngwyn to Diphwys

1 November 1882 Bala to Llan Ffestiniog ("Festiniog") standard gauge line opened by Bala and Festiniog Railway (under GWR umbrella) with much junketing Boyd p67, Butt p96

7 December 1882 Accounts of a train snowed up between Festiniog and Bala

7 May 1883 Invitation to Tender closed to build stations at Tyddyngwyn (future "Manod") and Blaenau and Goods shed at Blaenau

April 1883 Sidings at new Blaenau station ready Boyd p67

July 1883 "Festiniog and Blaenau" Railway Timetable published, Festiniog to Diphwys (intermediate stations were never mentioned in any FBR imetable)

31 July 1883 Col. Rich inspected regauged line and refused permission to open it Boyd p68

1 September 1883 Col. Rich re-inspected the line and gave permission to open Boyd p68

Wednesday 5 September 1883 narrow gauge services ended "for the purposes of rising the middle bar" Boyd p68

Monday 10 September 1883 standard gauge services Bala to Blaenau started Butt p36 although neither Manod nor Blaenau Festiniog station was fully ready Boyd p68. Much was written about the banquet to celebrate the opening, not all of it complementary.

November 1883 Weighbridges ordered for several stations between Bala and Blaenau inclusive

These are great. It would be a real enhancement to add some of them to the Festiniog and Blaenau Railway article. As you say, still nothing to confirm the temporary station, though. Best, Laplorfill

(talk) 19:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Glad you think they show potential, I am in the process of formalising the references and adding any others I may spot in the process.

I've finished that process and spent a couple of fruitless hours looking for anything addressing the core question, with no success. My Welsh isn't good enough to interrogate Welsh language papers thoroughly, but I've tried every variant of g/orsaf, tanymanod/tan-y-manod, tyddyngwyn, glynllifon, tren, rheilffordd I can think of, with nothing doing. I'll sleep on it then, if nothing dawns, I'll go back to the number you first thought of, so to speak. Dave

More snippets

F&BR declared open

XXXXXX

Carriage blown over on the F&BR

Public notice of Bala and Festiniog's plans

Notice of Select Committee to consider Bala and Festiniog's plans * what is Part 3, a 7 furlong railway seemingly in Blaenau??

Discussion in Select Committee on B&FR's plans

Notice of GWR and B&FR's plans

Parliamentary Notice of GWR and B&FR's plans

F&BR locos and rolling stock were stored at Llan Ffestiniog after the ng line closed Boyd p80 (letter from Wm Dean)

I've found another possible lead. British Railway Journal Vol7 contains an article published in 1985 entitled "Blaenau Ffestiniog 100 years ago". I've ordered a copy, you never know.... Fingers crossed, Dave

Nice idea, but the article is silent on our quest. I've run out of ideas, so at some point this week I'll have a stab at the approach you set out. I'm snowed under with family things at the moment, so it will be a case of grabbing a chance. Dave

References

OK, an unexpected opportunity has arisen, so here goes with a first stab. When we agree a text I will copy and paste it into the Duffws FBR article, with proper refs-

There is ample evidence that narrow gauge services between Llan Ffestiniog and Blaenau Ffestiniog continued during the rebuilding period, only finally ceasing five days before standard gauge services began.{refs: Boyd pp67-68, contemporary newspapers, contemporary timetable] The line's two intermediate stations, Tyddyngwyn and Tan-y-Manod remained open throughout the period.[Butt pp 236 and 227] Records are less clear as to where the services ended. Butt [p146] gives "Llan Festiniog GW" as closing on 1st November 1882 and "Festiniog GW" opening on the same date. The latter is uncontentious, but on that date it was opened as the temporary terminus from Bala. No other source concurs that the narrow gauge station at Llan closed on that date, nor was there any need for it to do so, as the two buildings were on the same campus but some distance apart on different levels. Such a move would have robbed the narrow gauge line of most of its passengers and found its way into contemporary newspaper columns. It appears that Butt is confused on the subject of the station(s) at Llan.

The situaton at the Blaenau end is confused. Butt states that "Duffws Ff&B ... Closed 1 November 1882. Reopened and renamed Blaenau Festiniog 10 September 1883" [Butt p84] Boyd is silent on Duffwys's closure, simply stating that standard gauge services started on 10 September, despite the new Manod and Blaenau Festiniog stations being unfinished. Boyd describes the narrow gauge diversion round the new viaduct, thereby supporting the contention that narrow gauge services continued north to within half a mile of Duffws at the very least. Timetables published in the conversion period simply gives times of trains leaving and arriving at the two termini - "Festiniog" and "Diphwys". Unlike at Llan, the rebuilding at Diphwys was considerable, with a wholly new layout and substantial sidings, buildings and signalling, it would have been difficult to continue to run loaded passenger trains into such a building sit and for pasengers to board and alight. [Festipedia] states, without citing a source, that temporary passenger facilities were provided at Dolgaregddu which was at the western end of the Duffws station site, meaning trains would have to pass through the worksite. A second enthusiast website states that narrow gauge services terminated at or near the Glynllifon Street level crossing. This claim is plausible as it would have kept passengers away from the station worksite and delivered them near to work, shops and other stations, but the site's only supporting evidence is to state that this arrangement is shown on a postcard. Such a postcard is keenly sought.

Please edit as you see fit. Thanks, Dave

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Doe Lea branch line

There's a discussion at Talk:Doe Lea branch line#"Mothballed"? which you may be interested in contributing to. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:46, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

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Working timetable for Grimsby and Immingham electric railway?

Hi! I couldn't help notice from your contribution to Kiln Lane electric railway station that you seemed to have access to an old working timetable for the Grimsby and Immingham Electric Railway.

I'm currently working on a personal project that involves a lot of old timetables, but I have very little information about this line. If you get a chance, if you could please provide the usual booked time between each station for this railway, that would be very useful for me, and I would very much appreciate it. If you have the ability to scan/photograph the timetable (I don't imagine it's very long?) that would be even more helpful.

The era I'm working in is Summer 1955, so at that point the street running section was still open. I'm guessing it was shut by the time of your 1956 timetable? So any details you have from earlier timetables on the running time for that section would also be appreciated. I doubt it changed too much over the years? The only info I actually have for Summer 1955 is in the Eastern Region public timetable, page 368, in which only the departure times from Grimsby Corporation Bridge are listed, with no other useful information. Knowing how long trams were booked for between each stop, even if not precisely in the 1955 timetable, would be very useful for me.

Many thanks!, especially for all the work you've done on the railway pages on Wikipedia! And no problem if you don't have the time to help me, if you need something in return from a Summer 1955 working timetable I have quite a lot of them now. --Muzer (talk) 18:20, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

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