Talk:Vanessa atalanta

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Felderp. Peer reviewers: WAdekunle.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Major update

I updated the lead section of the article and added the following sections: description, geographic range, life cycle (including subsections: larval and pupal stages, adult stage (with sections: migration, mating), host plants, territoriality, physiology and vision, and conservation. I added several citations from primary research journals, peer-reviewed books, and University and Museum websites. Felderp (talk) 05:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution to this article! I made some grammatical edits. I noticed that red admiral is inconsistently capitalized throughout the article, so I just made it all lowercase for consistency. I also noticed that there were two host plant sections? They were nearly identical, but one was better cited than the other, so I left that one. I also moved around subsections in the Life cycle section, because I felt that Migration was more fitting under Geographic range and Mating under Territoriality. That move left the Life cycle section with very little, so I moved the description into Adult stage, because it's basically describing an adult butterfly. I wish there was more behavioral information, maybe more mating information, but the lack of literature has proven to be a limiting factor for many of our classmates, so oh well.Ericapryu (talk) 02:14, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Second update - just moved the life cycle pictures to the bottom of the picture because it was wrapping strangely. Ericapryu (talk) 02:15, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I made some contributions similar to Erica's, like fixing capitalization and grammatical issues throughout the article. I rewrote the description section (which she moved to adult stage) as well as anything else I found to be unclear or redundant. I had noticed several sentences that were repeated word for word from the overview, so I rephrased those. I also removed one of the adult butterfly photos which I thought was unnecessary, and I moved host plants into the larval and pupal phase section. Lastly, I rearranged many of the sections to match the order of the outline we received in class. Mnoronha456 (talk) 03:36, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I though it would better to have mating closer to life cycle than physiology so I changed the order a bit. Also, one of the links were not working so I helped to find the accurate one WAdekunle (talk) 8:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Taxonomy box

I noticed phylum was not included in the taxonomy box. I checked other butterfly species pages and they also did not include this taxonomic rank. Can anyone confirm this is standard?

Untitled

I have removed some of the entries from the taxobox after having read the guidance in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/taxobox usage article. Too much removed? Not enough? --AjAldous 20:44, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

well done jimfbleak 05:04, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Red Admirable

I've added a new redirect page, Red_admirable and added the alternative name "Red Admirable" for this butterfly. As far as I am aware, the word "Admirable" is the original English name for the insect, but was gradually corrupted over time to simply "Admiral".

I don't have any authoratative source for this however -- but there are many reasonable repeats of this comment across the web. An authoratative reference would possibly also indicate if other nymphalids (such as Lorquin's Admiral, the White Admiral and Weidemeyer's Admiral) should be clarified as well. YojimboSan 22:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The Massachusetts Audobon Society attributes this to Vladimir Nabokov in Speak, Memory [email protected] 216.191.217.92 21:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The University of Alberta E.H. Strickland Entomological Museum attributes this to R.M.Pyle in Butterflies of Cascadia ISBN 0914516132 [email protected] 216.191.217.92 21:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Pale fire

What is the pale fire of a plant that it feeds on?

Has someone put this in as some sort of reference Nabokov's novel?

or is a plae fire an actual part of a plant? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.40.208.159 (talk) 22:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

"Pale Fire" is actually a quote from Shakespeare's "Timon of Athens", part of a short speech condemning universal thievery (for example, the sun steals moisture from the sea, the moon steals its "pale fire" from the sun, etc.) In the novel,the poet John Shade "steals" the title of his poem, "Pale Fire" from Shakespeare, a typically Nabokovian irony. To me it seems virtually certain that the Red Admirable scudding about and reflecting the light of the setting sun at the end of the poem echoes this image but I don't know if anyone else has made note this. Brian Boyd would know. The butterfly commonly feeds on ivy flowers and rotting fruit in the fall, and reportedly on bird droppings. I think there is a reference to its feeding on carrion in the book but don't see how to fold any of these sources of nourishment into Shakespeare's image.68.178.50.46 (talk) 23:03, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Here's a better image from the novel (commentary to line 270): "The Red Admirable feasting on oozy plums and, once, on a dead rabbit." Given the centrality of the butterfly image I think I can suggest that the Vanessafeeding on an "oozy plum" echoes the moon "stealing" from the sun without running the risk of Brian Boyd accusing me of Mary McCarthyism and pelting me with rotting fruit. Of course I would welcome any (nonlethal) response from so Dist a Prof.

The image of Vanessa atalanta is very complex in the novel. In Russian folklore it was associated with the assassination of Tsar Alendar II in 1881 because its markings suggest that date. Nabokov's father was killed trying to prevent a political assassination by right-wing fanatics in Berlin in 1922 and the poet John Shade in the novel is (apparently) assassinated as well, apparently in a case of mistaken identity and apparently by a political fanatic.

Some of this merits inclusion in the article, I'm sure.68.178.50.46 (talk) 18:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Name move

I moved the article name to Red Admiral (Vanessa atalanta) following guideline in WP:FLORA to use cultural names. Red Admiral is the cultural name, though there are more than one - so I then disambiguated by using the scientific name. However, the article has come out with Red Admiral in italics, and the scientific name in Roman. I don't know how to sort this. If a solution can't be found then a return to the original name may need to be made. SilkTork *^YES! 18:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

OK. I've switched it around. Wish I hadn't started this..... Please feel free to revert if this causes any problems. SilkTork *^YES! 18:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

"Red admiral"

NOTE: the name of this article was discussed at Talk:Red admiral in June 2014. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Vanessa atalanta/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Ranked mid because of it's extremely large range. Calibas 04:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 07:09, 22 December 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 20:18, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Hibernate/Migrate

The text refers to it migrating north in spring, and also in autumn. It also refers to it hibernating. I'm confused by this; which does it do? Dean1954 (talk) 21:55, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Questions following copy edits

• One place says they patrol "between 7 and 30 times per hour" and the other says "dozens of times per hour". Which?
• It says "prevent intruding males", presumably from mating with females, or maybe from establishing their own territories, but it's not clear.
• Where it says "so they cannot differentiate between colors", should that be "so they can perceive, but not differentiate between those colors"?
• The paragraph which starts with "At higher temperatures around" was unclear to me. Is this in laboratory conditions where the temperature was constant, or are these average of day and night temperatures over as long as 82 days?
• Migration is mentioned at several points in the article along with its range. It was not clear to me if all populations or some populations migrate. If it moves north as an adult, does it lay its eggs there, or does it come back south to lay eggs and for the next generation to be born? That doesn't sound right.
• If it does migrate in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, migration can't be easily defined as north and south.
• Where it says "440-590 nm range" and "590-640 nm range", what does that mean in terms of human color perception?

I hope that helps. Thanks,  SchreiberBike | ⌨  23:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Response

Thanks for the comments SchreiberBike ! I addressed your concerns about color perception and differentiation. I checked what the cited research paper and its references said regarding the distinction and used the accurate language. I also expanded on the filter pigment coating of the rhabdom that allows evolutionarily "newer" species to perceive orange and red.

I made the 7 to 30 patrols per hour consistent between the territoriality and mating sections.

I also clarified that male exceptional flyers are successful at mating bc they can chase off intruders and defend their territory. Just to further answer your question, females look for territory, not flying ability per se.

Finally, I added an introductory sentence to the paragraph on various temperatures that larvae are reared at and their effect on coloration and pupal period. I hope it is clear now that these were experiments carried out at constant temperatures over the pupal period.

Thanks for your help! Felderp (talk) 09:20, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

@Felderp: Thanks for the response and the work in the first place. I hope you continue to be involved in Wikipedia and biology.  SchreiberBike | ⌨  16:20, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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