Talk:Twenty questions

Wooden vegetables

"This can produce some odd technicalities, such as a wooden table being classified as a vegetable."

That doesn't make sense 66.75.49.213

A wooden table is made of 99% wood, which comes from a tree, which is a vegetable. Sneaky? Perhaps. Technically accurate? Yes. Calbaer 22:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

1) A tree is not a vegetable. Trees are perennial woody plants, and "vegetable" is not a botanical term. Ergo; insofar as "twenty questions" is concerned, a table made of carrots would be a "vegetable", but a table made of wood from an oak tree would not...at most, it could be "other", unless the term "vegetable" is used to describe anything that grows and is either alive or dead, which would seem to be stretching the limits of the definition. There are trees that can grow vegetables (such as the Moringa oleifera), but they are few and far between; and I doubt that furniture could be made from them.

2) I question the inclusion of the link to "One: the movie" in External Links. I have not seen the film; but there is no mention on the website or in the movie trailers of any connection to 20 questions. It would seem to be a film about the interconnectedness, or "Oneness" of all people. --Weirdoactor 17:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but in this context, the Victorians used "vegetable" to refer to plant growths of any kind, not just carrots and peas... AnonMoos 02:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with AnonMoos. In games I've seen or played, everything falls under the major categories labeled "animal", "vegetable", "mineral", or "non-tangible" -- there is no "other" category.

A traditional question is "Was it ever alive?", which would be "yes" for our wooden table (since trees are alive), discriminating everything in the "animal" and "vegetable" groups from everything else in the "mineral" and "non-tangible" groups.

Since everything is forced to fit into those 4 categories, the traditional definitions must be stretched a lot.

While I agree with Weirdoactor that a wooden table is not usually considered a "vegetable", it fits even less well into the "animal", "mineral", or "non-tangible" categories. In a similar way, apples, mushrooms, maple syrup, cardboard boxes, and Yggdrasil all end up in the "vegetable" category. Mushrooms aren't even in the plant kingdom.--68.0.120.35 20:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

1) Yes, it does. Go look up "vegetable" in the OED. (To be highly pedantic, it is wrong; it should say a wooden table being classified as vegetable. But that entire sense of the word is so obsolete now that it's probable that players who still use those categories would phrase it that way.)

2) They said it was a odd technicality. (That said, it's a Victorian convention and linguistic hold-over. Any game I've ever played hasn't offered players that gimme category information. They have to ask—in yes/no format—whether it has ever been living &c. In such a game "Is it a vegetable" for a wooden table would get a simple "No" answer.) — LlywelynII 10:02, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

i love how you write so fast @LlywelynII 72.42.169.122 (talk) 19:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Always good to be appreciated. — LlywelynII 07:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Alternative names

Perhaps someone should gather the alternative names for Twenty Questions throughout the world. Alfréd Rényi noted the Hungarian "Barkochba game" in 1969, while Charles Dickens noted that the Victorian version was called "Yes and no." Calbaer 22:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

TV version

If the TV version began in the UK two years before the US version, surely the UK is the country of origin and did not buy the rights from the US. --92.15.51.199 (talk) 15:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In actuality, as explained in the article, the American version began on Mutual Radio on February 2, 1946 – a year before the BBC version began. The Corporation did televise specials in 1947 and 1948 which predate the American series, but the American version is put first since its roots are earlier than the UK one. I hope you understand. Daniel Benfield (talk) 16:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing I understand is that a game described by Charles Dickens in his writing cannot possibly have been invented in America in the 1940s. 91.107.169.238 (talk) 00:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Use of the word "foreign"

I find the use of the word "foreign" unfortunate - I can see that this game was invented in America, but the word is exclusionary because it defines a point-of-view for the article which is only trivially relevant. To visualise how this is insulting, imagine the page were discussing a Scottish invention (they had plenty) and its spread across the States was headed "Use by Foreigners". As a US reader, would you not feel somewhat offended? I suggest a more inclusive term such as "worldwide versions" which do not carry an implicit point-of-view. 75.119.241.125 (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not unfortunate. It's completely misinformed. It's a British or French game. It may even be Scottish.

Leslie, Charles Robert; et al. (1865), Life and Times of Sir Joshua Reynolds: With Notices of Some of His Contemporaries, Vol. II, London: John Murray, p. 491. and

Roberts, William, ed. (1834), Memoirs of the Life and Correspondence of Mrs Hannah More, Vol. I, New York: Harper & Bros., p. 236. both have it being played among the British upper class in 1786.

Shannon Selin's blog can point both to the origin of the lie that it was American (the dead Google link being used here on our page) and to the actual appearance of the game in America following a well-publicized round done by Prime Minister Canning.

The Critic of 1882, Vol II, p. 177, seems to have an article detailing its popularization in America but Google Books inanely only provides snippet view despite it being well out of copyright. From what I can get by repeated quote-searching:

In a tasteful dark blue cover adorned with a score of aggressive interrogation marks, and in all the ruddy glory of a rubricated title-page and foot-notes in crimson ink, comes 'Hotspur'’s essay on one of the foremost of our native sports, 'Twenty Questions', which disputes with Poker the credit of being the most characteristic and widely diffused of American games. Each affords full scope for the national gift of speculation, and each in its present form is a product of American ingenuity; for as Poker is the final development of the simple game of Gleek played in Ben Jonson's time, so is the purely scientific Twenty Questions, as we now know it, an evolution from a ruder game in which a score of queries were prepared, to be answered answered only with a Quaker-like 'Yea' or 'Nay'. The success of Twenty Questions in America is a beautiful instance of the survival of the fittest, and no game ever responded more heartily to the demands of its environment. For one thing, it affords a means of withdrawing the superabundant feminine curiosity of the watering-place from idle gossip; and for another, it satisfies the national liking for a combination of entertainment and instruction. We can afford a word of praise to the care and skill with which 'Hotspur' has drawn up a code of laws for a game which hitherto has relied for its government on a vague and varying common law of tradition. Would it not have been well to extend this thin volume by a few remarks on the cognate games of Clumps and Literati, neither of which as yet has any place in the American Hoyle?

 — LlywelynII 10:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Why akinator is not mentioned?

Seriously, why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.58.150.157 (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

What is it? — LlywelynII 10:03, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Ha..I had wondered, when glancing over the technology section if it might be mentioned. Akinator was (is?) a web site that was basically the questioner in a 20 questions style game, and would try to guess any notable person (real or fictional, nonhumans included) that you think of. It was fun, the novelty of it wore off after not too long. the OP posted that here during the height of said novelty XD. Firejuggler86 (talk) 07:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Connection with Situation puzzle

Connection with Situation puzzle should be explined in the article. Is Twenty Questions is a particular variant of a Situation puzzle? Or, are they basically the same game (in which case, the articles should probably be merged)? Maxal (talk) 18:01, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

It's not the same game. Maybe they're variants of a more general kind of game. But Twenty Questions' goal is to guess what one of the players is thinking of. A situation puzzle involves seeking through questions for the explanation of a puzzling scenario posed at the start. The Tetrast (talk) 18:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

On review, I shouldn't have been so quick. I don't think that the two articles should be merged but the comparison not only is worth pursuing but arises naturally in Twenty Questions article. I've added about situation puzzles in a section now renamed to mention situation puzzles. The Tetrast (talk) 18:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Intro section too long?

I was thinking of putting the intro section's current 2nd & 3rd paragraphs into a separate new section "Rules and strategy". Or maybe I should just leave it alone. Comments? The Tetrast (talk) 02:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC).

Computer Science

"Mathematically, if each question is structured to eliminate half the objects, 20 questions will allow the questioner to distinguish between 2^20 or 1,048,576 objects." This might be correct if there is only one object for each trait or quality that is represented in a question. But it is a little misleading if there are more than one objects for each trait. For instance, if there are 1 Trillion red marbles and 1 Trillion blue marbles, then in one question, "Is it red?" I have distinguished 1 Trillion from 1 Trillion objects. 67.241.61.203 (talk) 13:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)Scott

Then that would be the perfect opening question! This is describing a perfect situation where you are able to eliminate half of the remaining objects every time you ask a question, ultimately being able to distinguish the one sought item from the 1,048,575 others. Your "Is it red?" question distinguishes half of the marbles from the other half, but it doesn't distinguish Red Marble #63,382 from Red Marble #463,827. --McGeddon (talk) 13:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

History

When did people start playing this game? Surely not in the 20th century. Perhaps in the Victorian era? Or was it known in Samuel Johnson's time? 173.174.85.204 (talk) Eric —Preceding undated comment added 01:54, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Snakes and Ladders which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:46, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

You can't have "Twenty questions" in the title and "Twenty Questions" in the text, however. Which shall it be, "twenty questions" or "Twenty Questions"? If the former, the other game names in the article will have to be lowercased as well. I'll move to the latter if there are no objections. Thanks. –Roy McCoy (talk) 19:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Er, I'm not sure it should be uppercased. I just think it should be one way or the other, even if only provisionally pending a discussion elsewhere. Is there anyone watching this page who cares and has an opinion? Thanks again. –Roy McCoy (talk) 19:29, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

It's the proper name of a game called "Twenty Questions", not an article about any given "twenty questions" generally: In the game Twenty Questions, one player answers up to twenty questions from the other players. Of course it should be uppercase unless (a) there's a specific separate convention in English or at Wiki since it's a parlor game or (b) it's specifically different in Britlish and in (American) English and the page already has a set style per WP:ENGVAR. You could check on the WP:MOS policy pages, ngram, and the page history.

Regardless, if people do it both ways, the article should show both ways in the lede before settling down to one or the other through its running text. — LlywelynII 07:54, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Surprise Twenty Questions

According to my research, Wheeler himself never called his version of Twenty Questions "negative twenty questions", and the source cited for the paragraph does not refer to it by that label. Though some other sources use that label, they do not cite any writing by Wheeler actually using the label.

Wheeler referred to his version as "the surprise version of the game". See the book "Quantum Theory and Measurement" p.202 ( https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=L7r_AwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq="quantum theory and measurement"&ots=7kLCrevnps&sig=YVlsmqfPoGJCp3xQCE7hgLu5ImQ#v=onepage&q="surprise version"&f=false ). Accordingly, I am editing the entry to change "negative twenty questions to "surprise twenty questions". Nick (talk) 18:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)