Talk:Sde Teiman detention camp

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 June 2024

The image attached to this Wikiepdia entry was first published in Israeli newspaper Haaretz in January 2024, four months prior to what is stated in the entry: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-03/ty-article/.premium/number-of-gazans-detained-in-israel-jumps-150-witness-soldiers-abuse-detainees/0000018c-ca0b-d6c4-ab8d-ebbf60380000

Haaretz was the first publication to reveal detainees were held in Sde Teiman and were handcuffed and blindfolded back in December: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-18/ty-article/.premium/hundreds-of-gazans-arrested-during-war-held-blindfolded-and-handcuffed-at-israeli-base/0000018c-7ce6-de44-a9be-7df678fd0000 Dertel1 (talk) 14:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Geardona (talk to me?) 01:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Allegations of female officers torturing detainees

A detainee said he was ordered by a female officer to have his rectum pressed against a metal stick fixed to the ground, causing severe bleeding and unbearable agony. This definitely needs to be included in the article. 46.31.112.221 (talk) 12:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

That's already been done. It wasn't the prisoner who was ordered, but her assistents who carried out her order on the victim.Nishidani (talk) 16:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Allegations of sexual harassment of female guards by prisoners

Isn't this WP:UNDUE? An allegation made by an anonymous soldier is not comparable to multiple documented abuses. I would also argue that ToI is not particulary neutral and should be used with caution. I checked to see if this was covered by any other site apart from ToI and couldn't find anything (which fails WP:PROPORTION). - Ïvana (talk) 04:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

You mean that the known and understandable reluctance of women to speak up about the sexual abuse they may (or may not) have suffered means we shouldn't mention it, when both a TV channel, and a major Israeli RS, report the allegation? How extraordinary. Use that standard set of objections for the individual incidents covered on the wiki Sexual and Gender Abuse in the Israel-Hamas war article, and one would gut it, and improperly so. The woman in question is speaking on behalf of her female colleagues at Sde Teiman.

Mem told Channel 13 that every female guard at the facility has been subjected to some form of sexual harassment, from the terrorists blowing kisses at them to suggestive comments to spitting on the floor when they hear women speak.

One could argue that this allegation is more suited to articles dealing with the information/image packaging of the present war, than to Sde Teiman in particular. But that would be to indulge in original research, since there is no textual indication her statement might be connected to some strategy of countering the emerging accusations which, contextually, it might be seen as a response to. We simply provide a detail that forms part of the record. Nishidani (talk) 09:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nishidani: I made no comments on the content of the allegations by the anonymous soldier, so I'm not sure on what repeating her statement is supposed to achieve. Reporting from israeli channels or sites about what the IDF or its soldiers say is neither new nor exceptional and does not automatically confer validity or relevance. My point is that, as far as I know, this has not been covered anywhere else apart from ToI (which is a biased source). Dedicating an entire subsection to it seems bothsideish. If you believe it is paramount to include this information then surely it could be integrated into a broader responses/reactions section. - Ïvana (talk) 19:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

It is mentioned twice (as far as we know). On a TV channel, and on ToL, not once. All sources in this area are biased. In would be improper to place it in a reactions section (already considered that) because we don't know if it is a reaction. We should wait for the official report of inquiry on Sde Teiman which is now underway. Nishidani (talk) 19:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

The citation listed for the quoted statement specifically outlines an instance with a more serious allegation. It seems deliberate that this article omits it:

Mem was on guard duty when she heard a female soldier in the hospital shouting, so she went to see if she could help. When she got there, a terrorist had pulled down his underwear and started to pleasure himself while looking the two women in the eyes and smiling. Mem said she ordered him to stop but he ignored her.

It also mentions how her reports were ignored, supporting why it's underreported. At the very least, I think the current quoted section should be updated to reflect that the allegations involved more serious accusations.

Here are other references to sexual assault on Israeli guards by Arab prisoners. Some reference additional support for Israeli authorities trying to keep it under wraps.

Pingpong947 (talk) 15:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

POV wording

In the allegations of sexual harrassment section, change "suffer regular sexual harrassment" to "experience regular" or "receive regular"; leave up to your preference. "Suffer" is unnecessarily emotionally charged. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 00:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Per MOS:WTW — hako9 (talk) 12:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

It's referencing a female guard routinely 'experiencing' something that nobody enjoys and is indicative of suffering. The linked MOS:WTW page even uses the word suffering to describe an article. Parts of the article absurdly suggest that a 300 lb. man, someone in a wheelchair, or persons currently wounded can't be wanted terrorists. Is that not indicative of bias? Pingpong947 (talk) 16:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)