Talk:Perseverance (rover)/Archive 1

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Why is this page not being integrated into the Wikipedia page for the Mars mission "Mars 2020"? --Maugri (talk) 17:48, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

This is somewhat covered at Talk:Mars 2020#Requested move 5 March 2020. --CaptainBillyCatPants (talk) 08:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

It's a $2.1 billion project. We can have more than one article. Schierbecker (talk) 11:58, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Mars 2020 includes the carrier spacecraft and the EDL systems, as well as the Perseverance rover. Wikipedia, like NASA, makes the exacts same distinction for the MSL mission and the Curiosity rover. Fcrary (talk) 22:24, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Should We Round?

The article states, "Around 10,932,295 people submitted their names". 10,932,295 looks like an exact number. I'm thinking that, if we want to use the work Around in the sentence, we should round the number 10,932,295 to something like the nearest 100 or the nearest 1,000.

What do others think?

198.161.9.120 (talk) 22:08, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, the source says "Some 10,932,295 people did just that" and I guess an editor read "some" to mean "approximately" or "around", but I agree that it's a bit too specific to make sense with "around". We could mimic the headline and say "over 10.9 million people..." ? edit to add: Possibly "around" was added to prevent the sentence beginning with a digit. Schazjmd (talk) 22:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

"Seventh Grade"

Editors should be aware the American "grade" system means little or nothing to most foreigners. Without going off to look this up, I have absolutely no idea which age group this refers to. It would have been more useful and practical just to say how old Mather is.-2A01:4C8:1442:593D:1:1:31A:1A28 (talk) 11:58, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Agreed but source doesn't give the student's age. As a mitigation, I linked seventh-grade to the section of an article that discusses ages/grades in US education. Schazjmd (talk) 14:48, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Other than linking the seventh-grade section I don't think there is too much else to do to clarify. Good edit Schazjmd. MaximusEditor (talk) 21:13, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe time to protect this page

Lots of vandalism is now escalating to porno images. The page is in good enough shape that IP additions are being offset by vandalism, so protection time seems appropriate. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:31, 19 February 2021 (UTC) Yeah, now would be a good time for that.AxderWraith Crimson (talk) 12:56, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Complete agreement. Just needed to remove a picture of a penis. Ths17sbu21 (talk) 20:14, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

I asked and nobody came, maybe someone else can give an admin a nod. Maybe Wbm1058 can lend a cyber-hand. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:16, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

looks like this page got protected :) 174.112.206.80 (talk) 20:22, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page is being repeatedly vandalized with dick picks 174.112.206.80 (talk) 20:15, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Happened at Ingenuity and Mars 2020 too. See section above, tried to get admins to look at it for protection earlier. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:18, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Not the first probe with a microphone

The Instrumentation section erroneously claims that this is the first Mars probe equipped with a microphone. The Mars Polar Lander was equipped with a microphone and was destroyed when it slammed into the surface. The Phoenix lander had a microphone and landed successfully but due to a malfunction it was never activated. 74.192.143.197 (talk) 22:59, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:04, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

First Martian audio was detected in 2018

The first audio recorded on Mars was by the InSight lander in 2018. It was hailed at the time by NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine: "Hearing the first sounds ever recorded on the surface of another planet is a privilege." Now, in 2021, remarks by NASA associate administrator Thomas Zurbuchen that the images and audio from Perseverance are "the closest you can get to landing on Mars without putting on a pressure suit" are being widely misconstrued in news media articles which claim we are hearing the "first audio clips captured on the surface of Mars".

The reality is more subtle. InSight used an air pressure sensor and a seismometer to register and record sound in 2018; Perseverance used a dedicated microphone in 2021, but the audio transmitted to earth in 2018 was true Martian sound. What is a microphone anyway but an "air pressure sensor"? Indeed, one article even describes how InSight would "listen out" for the sonic boom produced during atmospheric descent of its newly-arriving companion, Perseverance, in 2021.

The Wikipedia article about the InSight lander in 2018 describes the first audio from Mars as follows: "On 7 December 2018, InSight recorded the sounds of Martian winds with SEIS, which is able to record vibrations within human hearing range, although rather low (aka subwoofer-type sounds), and these were sent back to Earth. This was the first time the sound of Mars wind was heard after two previous attempts."

• NASA press release in 2018: NASA InSight Lander 'Hears' Martian Winds — O'Dea (talk) 03:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Will Ingenuity really be the first powered flight on another planet?

Why the sky cranes, on both Curiosity and Perseverance, doesn't count as powered flights on another planet? Fisz (talk) 10:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Looking at its article, flight is really a very general term, and that definition there includes rockets - so even landing rockets are "powered flight". NASA calls Ingenuity the "first test of powered flight" ([1]), taking a much narrower view of "flight", but other NASA pages happily call rocket launches "flight" ([2],[3]). I think we should call it "first powered aircraft" instead. We can't just call it "first aircraft", as aircraft defines that as including balloons, and the Vega program had balloons. I think that's accurate, as rockets aren't aircraft, and parachutes and reentry bodies aren't powered. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 13:04, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Help Welcome - "Timeline of Mars 2020"

The newly created "Timeline of Mars 2020", related to the "Mars 2020" page, and which would include events related to the "Perseverance rover" and "Ingenuity helicopter" pages, may need help in updating and related - the newly created page structure is based on the earlier "Timeline of Mars Science Laboratory" page which includes events related to the "Curiosity rover" - Thanks - in any case - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 17:03, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Suggestions

Should we explain how the landing was live streamed.TheLoyalist1 (talk) 17:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Skycrane etc.

We refer to the "skycrane" in the lede image, but this is not explained, and there is no description of how the mission went from orbit to landing. Something like this BBC image would be useful. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:04, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Lede (lead) Needs a good edit.

As of now, Feb 20, UCT, the lede contains silly English mistakes like claiming the lander carries investigations. It may carry investigative INSTRUMENTS or be programed to carry out investigations but it does not carry investigations.98.21.213.235 (talk) 04:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2021

In the sentence which includes 'Thomas Zurbuchen selected the name Perseverance following a nationwide K-12 student "name the rover" contest', please link K–12. It will mean nothing to readers unfamiliar with the US education system. 2001:BB6:4713:4858:E567:D26:B2D7:33BC (talk) 11:50, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done, thank you. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:54, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

 Note: Please remember to set the edit request template's answer parameter to yes when you have answered an edit request (although in this case, the answered parameter was not present). Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 12:09, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Errors in computer specs?

The main Perseverance "Brains" page goes into some detail about the processor on-board, and conflicts with what is currently in the article. It seems to imply the processor speed is 200MHz, not 133MHz; that it has 2GB of Flash memory, not 4GB; 256MB of DRAM, not 128; and an additional 256MB of EEPROM that isn't mentioned at all. It also mentions having a redundant second "brain" (probably processor) that can be switched to in case of problems with the primary system. Perhaps someone can cite & add this to the page? MrAureliusR_Talk! 03:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I also just noticed that the "Communications" page says that the high-gain X-band telemetry system _can_ communicate directly with earth, which is not what the article says ("all of which are relayed through craft currently in orbit around Mars"). MrAureliusR_Talk! 03:58, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Infobox image

Why are we using this image in the infobox? It does a terrible job of showing the entire rover. Shouldn't we try to use an image of the full rover, such as this one for Opportunity? I think the current infobox image is significant and should be included in the article, just not as the lead image to show a general overview of the rover. RunningTiger123 (talk) 19:57, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Because it's the only real image released by NASA that shows the entirety of the rover. I think we should prefer real images over animated ones. When Perseverance takes a selfie, we'll put it in the lead--  ApChrKey   ^Talk 20:33, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

If it's a real image you want, why not use something like this? Yes, it's not on Mars, but it shows the full rover clearly, as opposed to in an overhead view that doesn't make its actual design clear. RunningTiger123 (talk) 21:00, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems like the best most recent image should be used, as the machine is up on Mars now and that fact should probably represent itself in the lead image. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:15, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Images of the rover landing or landed are to be preferred over images of it on Earth at this time.--Brian Dell (talk) 01:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

SUV-sized?

Sojourner

SUV-sized is a very vague measurement. For example, my Chevy Suburban is about twice the size and three times the weight of my wife's Dacia Duster, both SUV cars. It would have been better to have some actual measurements, or at least nail it down to a specific SUV. 94.254.39.93 (talk) 08:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, changed to "car sized" matching the Curiosity (rover) first line. SUV is also an abbreviation, and isn't as widely understood as "car" is. Turini2 (talk) 17:31, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me is this true?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/lqiktn/why_nasa_lie_where_perseverance_heath_shield/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/lqf0mf/why_does_nasa_lie_that_it_see_the_perseverance/

87.126.23.197 (talk) 15:52, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't a forum WP:NOTFORUM, and furthermore that looks like someone being a troll on reddit. Take NASA's word for it. Turini2 (talk) 17:34, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

model

model

RogerNiceEyes (talk) 09:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Extensive paper on the engineering cameras

The Mars 2020 Engineering Cameras and Microphone on the Perseverance Rover: A Next-Generation Imaging System for Mars Exploration.©Geni (talk) 20:58, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Location map

Full-resolution map showing the current location of the Perseverance rover and its landing elipse, as well as the locations of the parachute and back shell, descent stage and heat shield.

I've created an ultra-high resolution image of the rover's stomping ground by carefully compositing 153 screenshots from the NASA website and adding location data from the HiRISE image of the landing site. The idea was that our users would be able to zoom into the image to see all the details and I, or anyone else with image editing skills, could update the image periodically as the rover makes its journey, tracking its progress. A couple of problems: First, simply uploading and then updating the image proved to be a pain in the arse. Eventually I had to install a script in order to facilitate the upload, so it may be difficult for other editors to offer their contributions. The other problem is that, on my phone at least, the full-resolution image won't even open in a mobile browser, so the seamless experience of pinch-zooming into the image turned out to be something of a pipe dream. Perhaps it was naive of me to think that all this information might be conveyed in a single image. So having said all that, I decided not to add the image to the article just yet and to ask the rest of you what you think instead. Is this too unwieldy to include in the article, or is it worth continuously updating over the coming weeks, months, or even years? Any feedback is welcome. nagualdesign 06:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

 Comment:@Nagualdesign: I think it's perfect for showing location of landing. But I am afraid, that this will need a lot of mannual work in future. Maybe if NASA has a file with coords of rover, but I don't think so. Because you could write scrapper or smth based on such file and then programatically update this picture with suitable tools. Of course is above just my opininon, don't let this stop from your future work. Best regards, --A09090091 (talk) 11:13, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, A09090091. If you follow the link above to the NASA website ("Where is Perseverance?") it does look like they'll be providing information about the rover's location down to the nearest pixel on an ongoing basis, so I think it will be relatively straightforward to track its path on the map. I agree that this will involve a considerable amount of manual work to keep it up-to-date, and the large file size doesn't lend itself to collaborative effort, and I'm not sure I have the patience to work single-handedly. I've been experimenting with a few ideas though. Reducing the size of the map from 12,500 px × 12,500 px down to 2,500 px × 2,500 px (1/5th the size, so just 1/25th the area) should make it workable on mobile browsers and still shows a good amount of detail, and using a png rather than jpg would mean that the image can be progressively updated without generation loss.

I think I'm just going to wait until Perseverance starts moving, as well as deploying Ingenuity, then revisit this idea to see if it can be made workable. One of the design principles that I try to adhere to is what I call not putting too much meat in the sandwich - ie, not filling an image with too many superfluous details - but in this case I think that having a single, large map in the article that shows where Perseverance is/was on different dates, where the landing gear ended up, where Ingenuity is/was on different dates, and a clear overview of the surrounding geography would actually be more helpful to our readers than having half a dozen different maps in the article. I may be wrong of course. We'll see how it goes. Watch this space! Regards, nagualdesign 00:28, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

This is about a space mission, it is currently evolving and may not reflect current status.

This section is posted by 160.32.212.38 (talk) 02:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Video of landing

Not counting the manned moon landings, my understanding is the video of the landing was the first full-motion video taken a) of such a landing and b) on another planet. Previous "videos" have been still images grouped together. Is this correct? If so, then not only does it carry the first microphone on another planet, but we saw the first "real" video footage from another world other than our moon, as well, and this should be noted in the article. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 23:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Video is "still images grouped together". That is how modern video is recorded and displayed, as still images moving fast. We have previously recorded video not only on Mars and the Moon, but on other bodies as well. If you look at the Curiosity landing footage, it's clearly video, despite being far choppier than the Perseverance landing footage. 86.60.163.93 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:52, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

The video of Huygens soft landing on Titan in 2005 was particularly memorable. The full-length sequence was processed from a series of stills from several cameras IIRC, but also included actual video footage of the landing, with the shadow of the parachute drifting gently over the scene. Titan isn't a planet of course, but if you have to append 'firsts' with a list of caveats it kind of detracts from the achievement. "First 30fps video from a six-wheeled rover soft-landing on a planetary body other than the Earth while carrying a small helicopter" perhaps? nagualdesign 00:46, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Nagualdesign, I must point out that no part of that Huygen's descent was actual video. Read a little more about it here. It's pretty, but the 3D-ish part with the parachute starting at 3:24 was entirely constructed by JPL based on final stationary images mixed with data from accelerometers, infrared spectrometer, and other sensors. — Huntster (t @ c) 04:40, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Very interesting. Thanks for the link. nagualdesign 17:29, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Geocache

Anyone know when the trackable will be able to be logged? --Znuddel (talk) 18:34, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

References

Size comparison Mars rovers

Here's a good one, with two H. sapiens providing a sense of scale

Are there pictures/animation showing the difference in size of the Mars rovers f.ex Perseverance, Curiosity, Opportunity, Sojourner..? --Znuddel (talk) 12:14, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

There's this, this and this among others from Commons:Category:Mars rovers comparisons. nagualdesign 00:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

"Homo sapiens"? Sheeeesh. How about "people"? C'mon, editors. 50.111.51.247 (talk) 15:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

It was tongue-in-cheek, in case that wasn't obvious. nagualdesign 23:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

...@50.111.51.247: Just looking at some of your contributions, you seem quite familiar with Wikipedia's working practices for an IP user that's only been editing for a week. Are you a PBU by any chance? nagualdesign 23:46, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) What's a PBU? Peanut Butter User? BilCat (talk) 23:57, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

A previously-blocked (or banned) user, who may or may not enjoy peanut butter. nagualdesign 00:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I wasn't familiar with the abbreviation, but I certainly know the type. A lot of "regular" IP users are that, and hide behind "I edit from an IP because I don't like how IP its users are treated", blah blah blah. BilCat (talk) 00:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

"Commemorative things"

I feel that the inclusion of "things" is a bit too informal and almost vague. Additionally I'm not quite sure if "commemorative" is the correct word to use. Either we can bring this into the culture section, or we can rename it "cultural addendum" or something about fundraising. puggo (talk) 15:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Exact landing time needed for "{{Perseverance Mission Timer}}"

NOTE: Exact landing time — in terms of ((13 (50 / 60))*(1/24)))) — needed for my newly created "{{Perseverance Mission Timer}}" page - this newly created template used the "{{Curiosity Mission Timer}}" page code as a helpful starting point - and the exact landing code for the "Perseverance (rover)" on this "{{Perseverance Mission Timer}}" page may need to be corrected and updated by someone who may have more experience with this than I have at the moment - please see the "{{Perseverance Mission Timer}}" page (and related talk-page) for more details - in any case - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 22:49, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

FWIW: The exact landing time was 2021-02-18 20:43:48.8175 UTC SCET (Space Craft Event Time). But for some reason it seems to be Wikipedia practice to instead show the ERT (Earth Received Time) of events. Sorry, I cannot provide a link for confirmation. I received the info in e-mail from a member of JPL staff. SelfCorrection (talk) 02:39, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Landing location

I'm not sure how precise this is but NASA's Mars map widget seems to give a location of 77.45°, 18.445°. Is that worth updating the landing site with or should we wait for a more official value? DenisMoskowitz (talk) 00:22, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Update but keep checking for changes. There is an image on the page of the location, looks like a little further in two directions it would have crashed, although instruments on the craft were looking out for landing obstacles and changing fuel bursts accordingly. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

I believe we should wait for the official location as mentioned by DenisMoskowitz. This seems to be the best way to ensure that the data is accurate and offical. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:04, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

I received e-mail from a member of JPL staff on 15 March 2021 stating that landing occurred at 77.45088572°E 18.44462715°N planetocentric. I had previously been given the same coordinates by someone who deep dived into the "Where is Perseverance?" webpage and apparently found it in a JSON file used by that tool. SelfCorrection (talk) 02:40, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

There should be a new subsection for landing and then a new section for science results on Mars - or maybe that is an entirely new article.

See: JPL post landing press conference at https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/timeline/landing/watch-online/ The JPL post landing briefing gave maps with the landing spot. Al Chen, the JPL landing lead showed 3 slides at times 56:45 to 58:30 in the video. The first slide showed the overall area with the precise landing spot. The second slide showed a zoom in to larger scale. This is the slide that has already been added to this wikipedia page. The third slide at 57:45 is perhaps the most important because it illustrates the success of the first ever intelligent landing navigation system used in a planetary lander. The TERRAIN RELATIVE NAVIGATION system enabled Perseverance to thread the needle between two red zones shown on the third slide. See: https://science.nasa.gov/technology/technology-highlights/terrain-relative-navigation-landing-between-the-hazards The success of Perseverance in this landing will enable future low cost landers to go into much more hazardous and high payoff landing sites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RM2001ASO (talk • contribs) 13:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Please add Easter eggs

Please add Easter eggs on this page as said by nasa in its latest tweet https://mobile.twitter.com/nasa/status/1378759043792171017 Chinakpradhan (talk) 04:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I have published the photos and added them on timeline of Mars 2020 page but please add the inscription or on the Mars 2020 page Chinakpradhan (talk) 15:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Unknown thing on mars 2020 perseverance rover

Can anyone explain what is this? Chinakpradhan (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

It's the entrance (I think) to the sample handling system. Here's a wider view with the door closed. (The images are different ways up.) 79.64.187.6 (talk) 16:12, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

(Same user as before) Just to clarify my previous comment, I have no idea what this specific complicated-looking apparatus is. In fact, I'm less sure now than I was then, since it doesn't look anything like any of the other hardware (drill bits and so on) recently imaged by WATSON. But it's definitely mounted in one of the slots on the bit carousel, for what it's worth. I did try searching for technical documents about the rover, as opposed to news items, but this was all I could find. It might be useful as a reference for details of the sampling process, but it doesn't answer the original question. 88.144.55.221 (talk) 21:29, 26 July 2021 (UTC)