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Merger

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{{helpme}} this article should be merged to KieranTimberlake Associates

See Help:Merge for how to do this. Basically, copy over any useful content, make sure to include where it came from in the edit summary--this is very important! Then make this page a redirect.  fetchcomms☛ 23:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Supertouch 23:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

History edit request

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Hello Wikipedia editors. I'm Ivy, an employee at KieranTimberlake. I'm here to post my first edit request to the page. I've gone ahead and disclosed my COI on my user page here as I understand it's important to share that before diving in: User:IvyKieranTimberlake.

I'm here because the firm's article has had a tag on it for quite some time now, and I've drafted up a new version of the History section in an attempt to add new (quality) sourcing to the article and eventually get the tag removed. Below is a bulleted list of the changes I've made in my new version of the History:

  • Cited a Pennsylvania Gazette piece that adds info about how Steve Izenour introduced the firm's founders to Robert Venturi
  • Added more background information about the founders' each winning the Rome Prize using a Philadelphia Magazine piece
  • Added Sam Harris as an original founder and that the company began operations out of Mr. Kieran's Powelton Village home. Later added that he eventually left the firm in the 1990s. Cited this to the Philadelphia Magazine article.
  • Added coverage of KieranTimberlake's first few projects, including projects for Chestnut Hill College and the Shipley School.
  • Introduced information about how Mr. Kieran and Mr. Timberlake funded their book Refabricating Architecture by using a $50k grant they won, and included that the book sold 13k copies as of 2011, cited to a Global Design News article.
  • Cited an article from The Architect’s Newspaper about the firm's ventilated curtain wall installed at University of Pennsylvania.
  • Cited a New York Times article that covered the firm's pavilion at Cooper Hewitt, and detailed coverage of the firm's invention SmartWrap.
  • I added two sentences about KieranTimberlake's Cellophane House, cited in two pieces: Architect Magazine and American Institute of Architects.
  • Cited Architectural Record and CNN, which covered the firm's design of the new Embassy of the United States in London.
  • Also introduced new info about two books Mr. Kieran and Mr. Timberlake have authored together: Manual: The Architecture­ of KieranTimberlake and Alluvium: Dhaka, Bangladesh, in the Crossroads of Water, the second of which I cited to an Architect Magazine piece.
  • Cited a Metropolis article to add a new paragraph that details how KieranTimberlake moved its HQ to an old bottling plant and also updated the number of employees.

Here's the draft:

History section draft

History

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Stephen Kieran and James Timberlake met while they were architecture students at the University of Pennsylvania in the mid-1970s.[1] Their architecture professor Steven Izenour introduced them to architect Robert Venturi and the pair went on to work for him at his firm Venturi Rauch and Scott Brown.[1]

In 1980, Kieran won the Rome Prize which included a year-long fellowship at the American Academy in Rome.[1] In 1982, Timberlake also won the Rome Prize and was awarded a year-long fellowship.[2]

In 1984, Kieran, Timberlake, and structural engineer Sam Harris, officially established the practice KieranTimberlake, initially headquartered in Kieran's Powelton Village townhouse.[2] The firm's first few projects included a new building for Kieran's father's car dealership and a jewelry store.[2] The firm's first big project came in 1986 when the architects were commissioned to design a campus community center at Chestnut Hill College.[2] KieranTimberlake was then commissioned for a project at Bryn Mawr's Shipley School complex.[2] Harris later left KieranTimberlake in the 1990s to run his own firm.[2]

In 2001, James Timberlake and Stephen Kieran won the Benjamin Henry Latrobe award from the Fellow of the American Institute of Architects which came with $50,000.[2][3] Timberlake and Kieran used the earnings to write a book titled Refabricating Architecture.[2] The book was published in 2004, and as of 2011, had sold 13,000 copies.[2] In 2002, Princeton Architectural Press published Manual: The Architecture­ of KieranTimberlake, which presents a technical look at the firm's architectural practices.[2] By 2002, the firm had 50 employees.[2]

In 2003, the firm installed the first actively ventilated curtain wall in North America at the University of Pennsylvania's Levine Hall.[4]

Later in 2003, KieranTimberlake installed a pavilion at the Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum featuring the firm's invented Smartwrap technology.[5] SmartWrap is a system consisting of layers of transparent PET plastic that incorporates ultrathin solar panels to elect energy with flat chemical batteries to store it.[5]

In September 2008, KieranTimberlake's Cellophane House was selected to appear at the Museum of Modern Art's Home Delivery: Fabricating the Modern Dwelling exhibition.[6] The Cellophane House was selected for the MoMA's exhibit due to its modular design, use of sustainable building practices, and SmartWrap.[6][7]

In February 2010, KieranTimberlake won the commission for the new Embassy of the United States, London.[8] In January 2018, the new embassy building in London opened. [9]

In 2015, Kieran and Timberlake authored Alluvium: Dhaka, Bangladesh, in the Crossroads of Water, a book investigating housing and climate change in Bangladesh.[10] The book was inspired by the graduate architecture research studio the pair taught at the University of Pennsylvania, which included a trip to Bangladesh.[10]

By January 2016, KieranTimberlake had moved its headquarters to a 63,000-square-foot former bottling plant for Henry F. Ortlieb’s Brewing Co., now Christian Schmidt Brewing Company, in the Northern Liberties neighborhood of Philadelphia and has 100 employees.[11]

References

  1. ^ a b c Prendergast, John (November 2, 2003). "A Passion for Putting Things Together". The Pennsylvania Gazette. Retrieved April 11, 2024.
  2. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k Marchese, John (November 19, 2011). "In the Future, We Will All Live in Plastic Houses Put Together in Six Weeks". Philadelphia Magazine. Retrieved April 11, 2024.
  3. ^ Amperiadis, Pavlos (December 15, 2022). "Stephen Kieran and James Timberlake, partners and founders of KieranTimberlake believe that 'without collective intelligence, the search for form lacks breadth and depth'". Global Design News. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  4. ^ Miller, Anna Bergren (June 27, 2014). "James Timberlake to US AEC Industry: Bring Facade Manufacturing Home". The Architect’s Newspaper. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  5. ^ a b Patton, Phil (August 7, 2003). "Smart Walls, Smart Future". The New York Times. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  6. ^ a b Mortice, Zach (September 5, 2008). "AIArchitect This Week | KieranTimberlake Moves Pre-Fab Into Mass-Customization". AIA. Retrieved April 15, 2024.
  7. ^ Donoff, Elizabeth (October 7, 2008). "Cellophane House, New York". Architect. Retrieved May 21, 2024.
  8. ^ Buckley, Bruce (March 17, 2010). "KieranTimberlake Wins U.S. Embassy Competition". Architectural Record. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  9. ^ McKenzie, Sheena (January 16, 2018). "Billion dollar US embassy opens in London | CNN Politics". CNN. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  10. ^ a b Dickinson, Elizabeth (December 3, 2015). "The Life Cycle of Practice". Architect. Retrieved May 21, 2024.
  11. ^ Saffron, Inga (January 26, 2016). "How Architects KieranTimberlake Turned Their Office Into an "Incubator"". Metropolis. Retrieved April 15, 2024.

I understand this is a fairly detailed draft and that it may take time to get feedback on it. I'll keep an eye on this Talk page whenever feedback comes and will be ready to respond. Thank you so much for taking the time to read! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 14:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello once again. I'm back posting under this request to see if editors who have edited this page in the past would have any interest in evaluating this request: User:Rofraja and User:AirForceAviator. Again, if anybody has questions, I'll be here. Thank you.IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 16:25, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello IvyKieranTimberlake, thank you for flagging this. Your draft hews much closer to WP:MOS than what is currently written. I will try to find time to work on the article in the near future – and will likely use your version close to "as is" (once I have had time to review the references in detail).
May I ask you to have a go at revising the MOS:LEAD as well? It is currently larded with MOS:PEACOCK and not even close to WP:NEUTRAL.
Also, the "Awards" section needs references. It is probably fine for you to add these directly to the article. Please double-check the guidance re: WP:COI. If in doubt, you can also put them here (using Template:Reflist-talk, as you did above), and I'll move them to the article. Either way is fine with me. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 15:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much user:Cl3phact0 for the attention on this and the initial cleanup. While you find time to give the History request a deeper look, I'll be collecting proper references for the Awards section, as well as drafts for the Research and development section as well as the intro. When those are ready, I'll open up new requests for each. 50.206.201.226 (talk) 14:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, this was from me--I didn't realize I wasn't logged in until I had already hit reply. IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 14:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 16:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rome Prize(s)

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Our list of Rome Prize recipients has the dates as 1981 (Kieran) and 1983 (Timberlake). The article states 1980 and 1982 respectively. Which is correct? -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The prize is over the course of a year (80-81 and 82-83) so that may be the root of the confusion, but I would defer to how the Wiki Rome Prize page lists them (1981 and 1983). Thank you for flagging this! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 18:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Thank you, Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chronological order

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IvyKieranTimberlake, are you able to re-oder the "Work" "Selected projects" section chronologically, per "Awards" section (i.e., preceded by year, oldest on top, per: MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL; WP:CHRONO)? In my view, this would be more useful to a reader who is unfamiliar with the firm's projects. Also, references are needed for both sections. The information could be challenged (or simply removed) without. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, User:Cl3phact0! I'm currently working on gathering all the required references for the Selected projects section and the Awards section, which will then help me present a new draft of the Selected projects section that will be chronological. This will take some time, but when I'm ready to post what I have, I'll make sure to ping you. Thanks again! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 13:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The list(s) can be re-established once the proper sourcing is available (the upside being that soon the article will be much better written and more precise than it was). In the interim, it has a very short awards list. Perhaps ping P,TO 19104 too when ready. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 19:24, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cl3phact0: I agree, but the list of awards cannot be as long as it formerly was. It was slightly too long in my opinion. So when the references for the other awards are found, lets make sure to still look out for conciseness. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 19:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The list of awards on their site is extensive (it states "over 260 design citations in the United States and abroad"). I'm not going to count them or go verify and reference each of them, but surely the delta between the 2 we list here and the 260 they claim is too great. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 12:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Publications addition

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Hello, I'm back with another edit request. This one should be quick as the very helpful editor User:Cl3phact0 has already started a Publications section. I have one suggested addition to this section, which you can check out below:

If there are any questions about this addition, please do let me know. Thank you! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 13:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 19:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Research and development request

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Hi everybody, I'm back to post a revised Research and development section. I understand that the section was recently removed by User:P,TO 19104 due to poor sourcing. I believe there is enough notable coverage that meets Wikipedia's standards to revive this section, and I believe the draft below proves that.

Here are the additions I made to the section:

  • Added an intro sentence stating that since the founding of KieranTimberlake the firm has developed multiple architectural and software products and conducted research studies on carbon reduction and sustainability, cited to articles from the Washington Post, Architectural Record, Metropolis and The Architect’s Newspaper.
  • Introduced a new sentence about the development of SmartWrap, providing a brief explanation about what the product is and the companies (ILC Dover and DuPont) it was developed alongside. Utilized articles from the Washington Post and Architect as sources.
  • Added that KieranTimberlake developed a wireless sensor network called Pointelist in 2013, cited to an article from Architect Magazine.
  • Added that KT developed an app called Tally, a life cycle assessment software plug-in for building information modeling software, and also added a sentence stating KT donated the software to the nonprofit Building Transparency, which in turn made the software open access. Cited to the Architectural Record reference.
  • Introduced a sentence about a KieranTimberlake developed app called Roast, which assesses building comfort, cited to a Fast Company article. Also added a sentence detailing that development of the app began when the firm moved into a former beer bottling plant in 2015, cited to the same Fast Company source.

Here's the draft:

Research and development section draft

Research and development

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Since KieranTimberlake was founded in 1984, the firm has developed numerous architectural and software products,[1][2] and has conducted research studies on carbon reduction and sustainability.[3][4] Founders Kieran and Timberlake developed SmartWrap, mass-customizable plastic walls that wrap around conventional walls to provide insulation, heat, power, and light while teaching their graduate research design studio at University of Pennsylvania School of Design.[1] The technology for SmartWrap was developed in coordination with ILC Dover and DuPont, and debuted in 2003 at a KieranTimberlake pavilion erected at Cooper Hewitt.[1][5][6]

In 2013, KieranTimberlake developed Pointelist, a wireless sensor network.[7]

Later in 2013, KieranTimberlake developed Tally, a life cycle assessment software plug-in for the building information modeling software Autodesk Revit.[2] KieranTimberlake gifted Tally to the nonprofit organization Building Transparency in 2021, making Tally free and open access.[2]

In 2018, the firm published the app Roast, which surveys users to assess building comfort by recording perceived temperatures, brightness, and noise levels.[8][9] Development of the app began when the firm moved into a former beer bottling plant in the summer of 2015.[8]

References

  1. ^ a b c Goldsmith, Diane (September 5, 2003). "Wrap Aims to Make Building Faster, Smarter". Washington Post. Retrieved May 30, 2024.
  2. ^ a b c Gonchar, Joann (2021-06-23). "KieranTimberlake Gifts Tally Software to Environmental Non-Profit". Architectural Record. Retrieved 2024-05-30.
  3. ^ Roche, Daniel (2024-02-27). "KieranTimberlake partner and research director Billie Faircloth is departing from the firm". The Architect’s Newspaper. Retrieved 2024-06-03.
  4. ^ Saffron, Inga (January 26, 2016). "How Architects KieranTimberlake Turned Their Office Into an "Incubator"". Metropolis. Retrieved April 15, 2024.
  5. ^ Donoff, Elizabeth (October 7, 2008). "Cellophane House, New York". Architect. Retrieved May 21, 2024.
  6. ^ Patton, Phil (August 7, 2003). "Smart Walls, Smart Future". The New York Times. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  7. ^ Lau, Wanda (2016-05-09). "KieranTimberlake Offers a New Tool for Architects Wanting an In on IoT". Architect Magazine.
  8. ^ a b Campbell-Dollaghan, Kelsey (May 2, 2018). "Building Is A Science. This App Lets Architects Study It". Fast Company. Retrieved May 30, 2024.
  9. ^ Lau, Wanda (2017-10-25). "KieranTimberlake to Launch Roast, an App for Architects to Conduct Post-Occupancy Evaluations". Architect Magazine. Retrieved 2024-05-30.

Here I will also tag User:Cl3phact0 who has been extremely active on the page recently. If there are any questions please let me know, and thank you so much! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm back here to ping the same editors from above just to make sure they saw the edit request as we continue to work together to improve this article: User:P,TO 19104 and User:Cl3phact0. Again, thanks so much! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 00:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Partly done -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much! IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 18:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Selected projects edit request

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Hi everyone, I've returned here to post my next edit request to update the Selected projects section. The section now has many projects without citations, some outdated, or with low-quality sourcing. For the projects I've proposed the addition of, I kept only the ones I could source for high-quality outlets and the ones with Wikipedia articles of their own.

Below are all the changes I've made in my proposed draft:

  • Removed the following projects from the section: Barkley College, Center City Building at UNC, Engineering Research Center at Brown, LivingHomes, Single and Multi-Family, Melvin J. and Claire Levine Hall at Penn, and Noyes Community Center at Cornell
  • Introduced a new chart to organize selected projects into name of project, location, status, year, and citation.
  • Added West Middle School, The Shipley School, KieranTimberlake's earliest project, cited to Philadelphia Magazine.
  • Removed the existing Loblolly House Forbes citation, replacing it with an Architect article and an Inside Inside article.
  • Added Sidwell Friends School Middle School Renovation, cited to a Green Education Foundation article that cited KT as the architects on the project.
  • Added Yale University Sculpture Building and Gallery, cited to an Atelier Ten article.
  • Introduced a new citation to the Cellophane House project from Architect.
  • Added Rice University Brockman Hall for Physics project cited to an Architect article.
  • Added University of California, San Diego Charles David Keeling Apartments project cited to two new references: an AECCafe article, and a WHYY article.
  • Added Dilworth Park project cited to a WHYY article.
  • Added Pound Ridge House Project, cited to The Architect's Newspaper.
  • Added High Horse Ranch, cited to an Architectural Record piece.
  • Removed the existing Washington Post citation for the London Embassy, replacing it with an Architectural Record article.
  • Added the Washington University in St. Louis Danforth Campus East End Transformation project, cited to two Architect pieces.
  • Added University of California, Santa Barbara Henley Hall project cited to Metropolis Magazine.
  • Added the Student Innovation Center at Iowa State, cited to Metropolis.
  • Added North Campus Housing at University of Washington cited to an AIA Washington Council article.
  • Removed the Pentagram citation for the Art and Ideals: President John F. Kennedy listed project, replacing them with two new citations from The Washington Post and batwin robin productions.
  • Added the John A. Paulson Center at New York University cited to The Architect's Newspaper.
  • Finally, added the Park Pavilion at Penn's Landing cited to an article from The Architect's Newspaper.

Please read below:

Selected projects section draft

Selected projects

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Project Location Status Year
West Middle School, The Shipley School United States Bryn Mawr, PA Completed 1993 [1]
Loblolly House United States Taylors Island, MD Completed 2006 [2][3]
Sidwell Friends School Middle School Renovation United States Washington, D.C. Completed 2006 [4]
Yale University Sculpture Building and Gallery United States New Haven, CT Completed 2007 [5]
Cellophane House, Museum of Modern Art United States Midtown Manhattan, New York City Completed 2008 [6]
Yale University Morse College and Ezra Stiles College Renovation United States Wellesley, Massachusetts Completed 2010 [7]
Rice University Brockman Hall for Physics United States Houston, Texas Completed 2011 [8]
University of California, San Diego Charles David Keeling Apartments United States San Diego, California Completed 2011 [9][10]
Dilworth Park United States Philadelphia, PA Completed 2014 [11]
Pound Ridge House United States Pound Ridge, New York Completed 2014 [12]
High Horse Ranch United States Willits, California Completed 2016 [13]
Embassy of the United States, London United Kingdom London Completed 2017 [14]
Washington University in St. Louis Danforth Campus East End Transformation United States St. Louis, Missouri Completed 2019 [15][16]
University of California, Santa Barbara Henley Hall Institute for Energy Efficiency United States Santa Barbara, CA Completed 2020 [17]
Iowa State University Student Innovation Center United States Ames, Iowa Completed 2020 [18]
University of Washington North Campus Housing United States Seattle, Washington Completed 2021 [19]
Art and Ideals: President John F. Kennedy at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts United States Washington, D.C. Completed 2022 [20][21]
New York University John A. Paulson Center United States New York City Completed 2023 [22]
Folger Shakespeare Library Renovation United States Washington, D.C. Completed 2024 [23]
Penn's Landing Park Pavilion United States Philadelphia, PA Under Construction 2024 [24]

References

  1. ^ Marchese, John (November 19, 2011). "In the Future, We Will All Live in Plastic Houses Put Together in Six Weeks". Philadelphia Magazine. Retrieved April 11, 2024.
  2. ^ "Loblolly house". Architect. June 5, 2013. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  3. ^ "Residence, Loblolly House (2006)*". InsideInside. March 10, 2018. Retrieved June 25, 2024.
  4. ^ "Sidwell Friends Middle School Renovation". Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  5. ^ "Sculpture Building and Gallery, Yale University". Atelier Ten. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  6. ^ Donoff, Elizabeth (October 7, 2008). "Cellophane House, New York". Architect. Retrieved May 21, 2024.
  7. ^ Freeman, Belmont (October 31, 2017). "Tradition for Sale". Places Journal. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  8. ^ Sharpse, Stephen (September 14, 2011). "Brockman Hall for Physics". Architect. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  9. ^ Gangal, Sanjay (May 4, 2013). "Charles David Keeling Apartments in La Jolla, California by KieranTimberlake". AECCafe. Retrieved June 20, 2024.}
  10. ^ "Charles David Keeling Apartments". Architect. August 20, 2013. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  11. ^ Hahn, Ashley (September 9, 2014). "Dilworth reopens refined: solid, smooth, and splashy". WHYY. Retrieved June 25, 2024.
  12. ^ Wachs, Audrey (2015-12-29). "A shiny Westchester home, designed by KieranTimberlake, reflects its woodsy surroundings". The Architect’s Newspaper. Retrieved 2024-07-12.
  13. ^ Amelar, Sarah. "High Horse Ranch by KieranTimberlake". Retrieved 2024-07-12.
  14. ^ Buckley, Bruce (March 17, 2010). "KieranTimberlake Wins U.S. Embassy Competition". Architectural Record. Retrieved May 15, 2024.
  15. ^ Keegan, Edward (February 25, 2020). "East End Transformation, by KieranTimberlake, Tao Lee Associates, BNIM, Moore Ruble Yudell Architects & Planners, Mackey Mitchell Architects, Perkins Eastman, and Patterhn Ives". Architect. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  16. ^ Gerfen, Katie (2020-02-25). "Washington University's East End Transformation". Architect. Retrieved 2024-07-02.
  17. ^ Fortmeyer, Russell. "Henley Hall Institute for Energy Efficiency Offers a Lesson in Natural Ventilation". Metropolis Magazine. Retrieved June 25, 2024.
  18. ^ Can Yerebakan, Osman (August 31, 2022). "Iowa State's Student Innovation Center Models Its Mission". Metropolis. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  19. ^ "University of Washington North Campus Housing". AIA Washington Council. Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  20. ^ "ART AND IDEALS: PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY". batwin robin productions. 2024-06-20.
  21. ^ Hahn, Fritz (September 20, 2022). "A new Kennedy Center exhibition shows JFK's love of the arts". The Washington Post.
  22. ^ Klein, Kristine (April 7, 2023). "KieranTimberlake and Davis Brody Bond deliver a curtain wall attuned to the needs of NYU's mixed-use John A. Paulson Center". The Architect's Newspaper.
  23. ^ Minutillo, Josephine (June 3, 2024). "KieranTimberlake Transforms D.C.'s Folger Shakespeare Library | Architectural Record". Retrieved June 20, 2024.
  24. ^ Roche, Daniel Jonas (September 11, 2023). "Penn's Landing, Philadelphia's new waterfront park by Hargreaves Jones and KieranTimberlake, broke ground". The Architect’s Newspaper. Retrieved June 20, 2024.

Of course, if there are any questions, please reply and I will be quick to respond. Thank you so much again to the very helpful editors who have aided in updating this article so far: User:P,TO 19104 and User:Cl3phact0. IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jumping back into this thread to drop a friendly ping to some of the editors who have been evaluating edit requests on this Talk page: User:Cl3phact0 and User:P,TO 19104. Again, thank you both for all the help and attention here. IvyKieranTimberlake (talk) 13:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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