Talk:David Benatar

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This article was nominated for deletion on 29 April 2008. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

Creator's comments

Delete it if you want, but there are several places (see the antinatalism article) where the guy is referenced with one of those sad, red, this-article-doesn't-yet-exist links, which is the only reason I felt compelled to write it. His ideas are very controversial and it seems that a basic explanation of them, in stub form, is better than none at all. But whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seasicksarah (talk • contribs) 06:45, 29 April 2008

Assessment

I assessed it as having importance "B"/mid in the Africa Project. The article has moved beyond a stub and covers most of the basics. Benatar is reasonably well known and respected internationally. Nat (talk) 21:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how any article could get beyond start class without inline citations; especially an article as brief as this one. Skomorokh, barbarian 01:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This entry reads like the blurb for a book, instead of a Wikipedia entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shortcoat (talk • contribs) 14:57, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question

I don't know if this is the proper venue for me to post this question, but does anyone know if David Benatar has children?

Akulo (talk) 19:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is secretive about his personal life, and evaded that question when interviewed by The New Yorker in 2017.--Muzilon (talk) 21:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He says in this podcast that he doesn't have children. --Jatkins ^{(talk - contribs)} 17:38, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A reply written yet so late... But he is an anti-natalist since very long. Of course, he doesn't have children. --1mpossible_c ^{(talk - contribs)} 13:48, 6 April 2021 (UTC 3)

New material

...is largely just lifted from the existing wiki antinatalism article.

JCJC777

David Benatar's portrait in this article is that of Australian philosopher Peter Singer

Not sure how such an egregious mistake was made. I can only assume this was done to sabotage the article or as a troll attempt. Someone please change that (not sure if any images of David exist so maybe just don't include a portrait in this artlcle). Cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:A056:9D00:3D0C:8FB6:34A5:FEE0 (talk) 08:32, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Elaboration needed

Benatar argues that absence of pain is good, even when no one experiences it. But how there can be absence or presence of pain, if there are no one to experience it? IE, feeling or not feeling pain is property of entity that can experience it. The empty space in front of you is absent of pain, is it good empty space? Better than some other empty space that has "pain"? That just doesn't make any sense. Is that really valid philosophy? 88.115.35.152 (talk) 19:11, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

According to Benatar, the presence of pain is worse than the absence of pain. The absence of pleasure is worse than the presence of pleasure iff there is somebody who is thereby deprived. This is how the terms "good" and "bad" are usually employed: p is good iff p is better than not p.

No longer Head of Department

I've updated the article - the UCT Philosophy Department website now lists Professor B. Weiss as Head of Department see here JezGrove (talk) 21:16, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

central thesis in Benatar’s ‘A précis of your predicament’.

central thesis in Benatar’s ‘A précis of your predicament’. 41.198.132.54 (talk) 09:52, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Veganism activists

C.J. Griffin (talk · contribs) reverted my edit removing Category:Veganism activists from the article. I agree with the user that "[t]he text makes clear that [David Benatar] is" a vegan advocate. However, I found the characterization of Benatar as a vegan activist to be inaccurate, as Benatar has stated on several occasions (including 34:22 in "The Exploring Antinatalism Podcast #5") that he does not consider himself an activist. Furthermore, I have not been able to find any WP:RS that refers to him as an activist of any kind.

I apologize for not providing a full explanation of my edit in the edit summary. Pacifio (talk) 17:51, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pacifio, the YouTube link you mention does not mention veganism. At 34:22, Benatar is responding to a question about anti-natalism, and he answers that he is not an activist for anti-natalism in the sense that he is telling people what to do. You are doing original research here. I am not entirely opposed to YouTube sometimes being used (I.e. a reliable interview) but this podcast is clearly not a reliable source. We can't use it on Wikipedia, nor does it claim what you are arguing. See WP:OR. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:09, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The WP:BURDEN is on those who wish to add the category to the article to provide a reliable source stating that Benatar is a vegan activist, not on me to provide a reliable source stating that he is not. Being able to provide a reliable source that explicitly states that Benatar is not a vegan activist is a sufficient condition for removing the category from the article, but not a necessary condition for doing so. Pacifio (talk) 19:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The "veganism activists" category was put on the article in 2016 [1]. I agree that a reliable source is needed. I have not looked into it deeply but the YouTube video above does not mention veganism. It appears Benatar has argued for veganism at public debates, i.e. TEDxCapeTownSalon 2014 [2], online in full [3] and has also published peer-reviewed papers on the topic [4] and is mentioned in others [5]. Psychologist Guy (talk) 19:30, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this as well, but given he emphasized he wasn't an activist ("I"m not an activist myself"), I thought this could be interpreted more broadly, which is why I self-reverted.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 20:06, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you are saying but in the YouTube interview he said he was not an activist for anti-natalism. The interview was not about veganism but I can see why some would come to that conclusion. I would agree to leave the category off the article. It's not worth the time heavily debating this. He's primarily known for his work on anti-natalism. I doubt many people are looking into this guys publications wanting to read about his take on veganism. From what I can see, he has only published one reply paper on moral vegetarianism. It's not something he spends most of his time researching. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:16, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have categories for animal rights activists and animal rights scholars. Scholars is just a category for academics who have written about the topic. It's possible we could create a category for veganism scholars similar to what we have done on animal rights, that would qualify Benatar for the category as he has written about the topic. This is certainly an idea, but is just making more work. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:43, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. I added Category:Vegans for the time being.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 20:47, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish

David is Jewish. His father is Solomon "Solly" Benatar, a contributor to the Cape Jewish Chronicle. Solomon ("Solly") is also mentioned in the SA Jewish Board of Deputies's 2017 Jewish Affairs publication as a prominent Jewish doctor in SA, having served as UCT's Head of Medicine. (see pg. 62) https://www.sajbd.org/uploads/Jewish-Affairs-Rosh-Hashanah-2017.pdf 218.232.76.179 (talk) 03:28, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added, specifically in relation to his statements re: campus antisemitism and Hamas.LonelyBoy2012 (talk) 08:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]