Talk:Clay Aiken/Archive 16

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Clean Up

Thanks for cleaning this up. Michigan user (talk) 02:48, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

RCA

I just used rollback for only the 2nd time to revert 2 edits and you don't get the opportunity to comment or review what you're doing. I should have just reverted with an explanation. The sourced information was already in the article. As for changing the info box record label I think that for now it should stay the way it is considering all the albums are on the RCA label. Maria202 (talk) 20:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the RCA label info can get a begin and end date since Clay is no longer on the label?Ducold (talk) 01:40, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Broadway

Sorry if I'm doing this wrong but I have never edited Wikipedia before.I made a change to Clay's character list from Spamalot yesterday and somebody reverted it to the previous list, which is wrong. I just changed it back again. There is no character called 1st Sentry (it is Sir Robin before he's a Sir). The list as I entered it is correct according to Playbill, ibdb, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.185.111 (talk) 10:36, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I checked the Playbill and you're right. I'll fix it. Maria202 (talk) 13:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Ongoing vandalism

I'm a little surprised that there continues to be quite a bit of anti-gay vandalism on Clay's page. You would think that would have died down by now. Perhaps the page needs to be semi-protected again, at least for a few months? Ducold (talk) 06:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This is nothing compared to what it used to be. The level of vandalism isn't that great. But if it gets worse protection is always an option.   Will Beback  talk  07:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I requested temp semi PP on 1 March but was declined, see here. I remember counting 15 IP vandalisms over a 7 day period at one point, although the level and frequency does seem to vary sporadically, Agree that it has been much worse in the past, but even once per day is a reasonable basis for semi-protection IMO, especially without constructive IP edits. I believe with Ducold that the article should be semi-protected for a period (not indef). — Becksguy (talk) 08:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Every time Clay hits the news the vandalism picks up. This past week it was because of the AI Wildcard show. The last heavy vandalism cycle was when the split with RCA hit the news. The next cycle will be when he announces his plans for 2009 which will most likely be in April, unless something else gets him in the news before then. Maria202 (talk) 14:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. And more homophobic anon vandalism [1]. Can we have consensus here that the article should be semi-protected? — Becksguy (talk) 11:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protection gets my vote. The article is stable and has been for some time. Having to constantly monitor it for vandalism is a waste of everyone's time. Maria202 (talk) 14:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Obviously I vote for semi-protection as well since I asked the question. The 2 pieces of vandalism today were by users with accounts however, so it won't obviously stop all vandalism. Ducold (talk) 22:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I vote for Semi-protection please. Michigan user (talk) 23:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected: With the current season of AI in full swing and with the level of vandalism on this mostly stable article well above 5% (See Wikipedia:Rough guide to semi-protection), I've semi-protected the article for 3 months, the approximate duration of the season. — ERcheck (talk) 00:16, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, ERcheck. I was going to reapply at WP:RFPP, citing talk page discussion and consensus. Three months seems reasonable. It's appreciated. — Becksguy (talk) 03:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

More vandalism: I hate to bring this up again, but the Aiken page has been getting a hell of a lot of vandalism in June and July. It looks like the page needs semi-protection again. I don't know what is wrong with some people. Ducold (talk) 20:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination

This article was nominated for Good Article status in 2006 but at that time needed lots of improvement. Do any of you who edit here see a reason why it should not renominated now? I don't want to just go ahead and do it in case another editor sees something that needs to be improved that I don't see. Maria202 (talk) 20:07, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

It's much more stable now then in previous years, so that will help.   Will Beback  talk  01:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Clay Aiken/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

Hi. I will be reviewing the article on Clay Aiken. Please give me a couple of hours to read through the article and collect my thoughts. I usually print the article out and go over it with a pencil, and write my notes on paper before typing them up, so please be patient. I'll post my review and any comments when I'm done. Regards Matthewedwards :  Chat  20:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Check for dabs

   Avoid using WP:VAGUE words such as "various", "many", "numerous", "several" and "a few".

   Avoid using WP:Peacock words such as "noted", "world famous", "rise to fame"

   Avoid using WP:Weasel words such as "as some hypothesized"

   Avoid WP:Overlinking common terms such as "American", "pop", "singer"

   Sir Robin is a useless redirect

   he sang in school choirs, church choir, musicals and local theatre productions. "Church choir" is singular, but the rest are plural. If it is only one church choir he sang in, use the indefinite article

   After high school, he sang lead with a local band, Just By Chance, cohosting and performing with the band at "Just by Chance and Friends" shows in Dunn, North Carolina. Does this mean after he graduated from high school, or in the evenings after he'd attended high school for the day? The article should be more specific here to avoid confusion. Also, do "Dunn, North Carolina", since the state was linked with Raleigh in a previous sentence

   Don't use acronyms before you've used the full term. Does "MC" here mean Master of Ceremonies, Mic(rophone) controller

   He performed the national anthem numerous times how many?

   At the age of 19, with his mother's and grandfather's permission, he legally changed his last name from Grissom to Aiken. [14] there's an extra space after the full stop and before the reference. Also, do we know why he did this? Why did he ask permission? Was Aiken his mother's maiden name and grandfather's surname, or did he pick it another way?

   Three demo albums of Aiken's vocals were created before American Idol What does this mean? What is American Idol? For someone who has no idea, this is a new thing you've thrust upon them, with no description or link. Also, "Before" in what way? Before American Idol aired, before he auditioned, before the series was conceived? It's very vague right now. Personally, I wouldn't make any mention of Idol at this stage

   Three demo albums of Aiken's vocals were created before American Idol with the aid of studio time given as a birthday gift by his mother Try "For his xxth birthday, Aiken's mother purchased studio timewhere he recorded three demo albums of his vocals."

   a cassette called Look What Love Has Done (by Clayton Grissom), a cassette and CD entitled Redefined (by Clayton Aiken), and a CD that combined some songs from each of the previous demos: "Look What Love Has Done, Vol 2" (by Clay Aiken). Try -- "a cassette titled Look What Love Has Done (credited to Clayton Grissom); a cassette and CD titled Redefined (credited to Clayton Aiken); and a CD that combined songs from the previous demos, Look What Love Has Done, Volume 2 (credited to Clay Aiken)."

   and took courses at Campbell University --> "and studied at Campbell University"

   he took a part-time job as an assistant to a boy with autism, and it was this child's mother, Diane Bubel, who urged him to audition for American Idol. for those readers who do not know what this is, could you provide WP:CONTEXT such as "... for the reality television talent show American Idol."

   The child's mother, Jaymes Foster, is the sister of record producer David Foster and the executive producer of Aiken's last three albums on the RCA label. "Last three" will age as soon as another album is released. Can you word it so it's more precise?

   After several years of public speculation, how many?

   Aiken confirmed that he is gay don't WP:Overlink common terms. "Gay" is too informal for an encyclopedic entry, too. Go with "homosexual"

   "New York City" doesn't need wikilinking either

   "Amazing Race" is called "The Amazing Race", with the definite article

   The show's judges first saw Aiken as a nerdy type unlikely to be any kind of idol "Nerdy" is too colloquial and informal for an encyclopedic entry. Check your WP:TONE

   Aiken made it to the round of 32 huh?

   his performance of Elton John's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" sent him on to the final 12 as the viewer's choice. how?

   While noted for his performance of ballads, such as Neil Sedaka's "Solitaire", his upbeat performances, including The Foundations' "Build Me Up Buttercup", were also appreciated. By whom? Weasel words again, at the beginning and end of the sentence

   Part of his appeal was his "geek to chic" transformation in appearance. more weasely wording in "appeal"

   With longer, flat ironed, spiky hair and a penchant for wearing striped shirts, Aiken had established a trademark look by the final American Idol season 2 show. I don't understand. Did he actually file a trademark over his looks?

   out of more than 24,000,000 votes cast. --> "out of a total of over 24 million votes cast"

   Though officially, Aiken was the show's "first runner-up," he has since gone on to be the second season's best-selling star. Another peacock term, and it also uses informal words such as "Though officially". Try "Although Aiken was the show's runner-up, he has since sold more records than any other singer who competed against him, including Studdard."

   The paragraph beginning Rolling Stone featured Aiken on the cover of their July 2003 issue. is out of place. It isn't about his American Idol experience, it's about his personal life, and it should be moved there. The last paragraph in personal life should be tacked onto the end of this one.

   Aiken made a surprise appearance on the final show of American Idol season 5, American Idol needs italicizing, and American Idol doesn't need italicisng again. Try "the final show of the fifth season of American Idol.}}

   Aiken made a surprise appearance on the final show of American Idol season 5, when failed auditioner Michael Sandecki returned to the show to receive a "Golden Idol" award for Best Impersonator for his Clay Aiken-like appearance. Aiken appeared without introduction in a well-tailored designer suit and longer, darker hair with bangs, looking so different that many did not recognize him until he began to sing "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me." These two sentences are extremely long. Can they be split into three or four? They need sourcing too, and "well-tailored" should be "tailored" -- we don't know how tailored it was. How many is "many"? Need to be more specific

   and to date the highest debut of any Idol. This will likely age. Can you recast it in any way?

   The album received RIAA Double Platinum certification missing an indefinite article, and you should use the full "Recording Industry Association of America" on first use.

   The album spawned both the hit single "Invisible" and his first hit song, "This Is the Night" (both co-written by British songwriter Chris Braide). "hit single" and "hit song" are both Peacock terms and should be removed. The parenthesesed part is Too Much Information. Be concise.

   Overlinking on Billboard 200, it should be written Billboard 200, too.

   darker hair with bangs what is this?? I'm totally confused

   The second season of the American Idol Rewind series (2007) was narrated by Aiken --> "The second season of American Idol Rewind was narrated by Aiken"

   sold over 1,000,000 copies retail remove "retail"

   receiving RIAA Platinum certification on Jan. 6, 2005 missing indefinite article

   Overlinking on iTunes, Walmart should be Wal-Mart

   You have seven paragraphs in the Music section, but two are parastubs of one sentence. Merge with other paragraphs please, and consider merging some of teh other ones too as they are also short.

   The Star-Spangled Banner is a song title, and needs quotes per the MOS

   "Nick At Nite" --> "Nick at Nite"

   titled A Clay Aiken Christmas remove "titled"

   It was revealed in this episode that he is the cousin of the show's character Kenneth needs a full stop at the end of the sentence

1. B. MoS compliance:

   Needs Template:Persondata

   You need go run through and check that album titles and television series titles are italicised, and that song titles and episode titles are in double quotes, per MOS:T

   Aiken announced, on his personal blog, the birth of his son in North Carolina commas are not needed

   "My dear friend, Jaymes, and I are so excited to announce the birth of Parker Foster Aiken" [18] there's missing punctuation and an extra space between the closing quotemark and the reference

1. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   he took a part-time job as an assistant to a boy with autism, and it was this child's mother, Diane Bubel, who urged him to audition for American Idol. Needs a reference

   His middle name came from his paternal grandmother's maiden name; using instead the married surnames of their mothers, he and Foster followed that tradition in choosing their son's name. Needs a reference

   Television viewers first glimpsed Aiken during the audition episodes at the beginning of American Idol's second season. Needs a source. You can use {{cite episode}} if necessary

   The show's judges first saw Aiken as a nerdy type unlikely to be any kind of idol From what I've read of Simon Cowell's I Don't Mean to be Rude, But...", they didn't initially seem him as any kind of idol. Nerdy, yes, but Idol, no.

   but after hearing him sing Heatwave's "Always and Forever" decided to advance him to the next round. Unsourced

   The clip of the judges' surprise during this audition performance was replayed many times over the course of the competition. unsourced

   Aiken received enough votes every week to keep him out of the bottom three unsourced

   With longer, flat ironed, spiky hair and a penchant for wearing striped shirts, Aiken had established a trademark look by the final American Idol season 2 show. Surely if his look is one way he is recognised, we can get a reference for this

   Though officially, Aiken was the show's "first runner-up," he has since gone on to be the second season's best-selling star. unsourced

   Aiken appeared without introduction in a well-tailored designer suit and longer, darker hair with bangs, looking so different that many did not recognize him until he began to sing "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me." neither of the sources confirm any of this except the song he sang

   The album received RIAA Double Platinum certification on November 17, 2003 (a Double Platinum plaque was presented to Aiken by Clive Davis on October 22, 2003, during Good Morning America). both sentences are unsourced

   The album spawned both the hit single "Invisible" and his first hit song, "This Is the Night" (both co-written by British songwriter Chris Braide). Later that year, Aiken won the Fan's Choice Award at the American Music Awards ceremony, and his CD single "This Is the Night/Bridge Over Troubled Water" won the Billboard award for the Best-Selling Single of 2003. All unsourced.

   He sang The Star-Spangled Banner on opening night of the 2003 World Series and appeared in numerous television specials during the winter of 2003, including Disney's Christmas Day Parade and the Nick At Nite Holiday Special, where he sang the "Little Drummer Boy/Peace on Earth" with Bing Crosby via special effects. Aiken starred in and executive produced his first TV special (December 2004), titled A Clay Aiken Christmas, with special guests Barry Manilow, Yolanda Adams, and Megan Mullally; the special was released on DVD later that month. On July 4, 2004, Aiken was one of the performers in the A Capitol Fourth concert in Washington, D.C. and performed in the Good Morning America Summer Concert Series in 2004 and 2005. The entire paragraph is unsourced. Each newly presented fact needs to be verifiable

   The rest oof that section is also entirely unsourced, except for the Kelly Ripa hand-mouth thing, the appearance on Smarter than a 5th Grader, and being a cousin of Kenneth. It all needs sourcing. How can any of it be verified without sources?

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341750/ is not a Reliable source

   References need formatting correctly. You don't need ".com" for website titles, nor should website titles be italicised. Where sources are archived through the Wayback Machine, you should use the format shown at {{cite web}}, even if you don't actually use the template

   C. No original research:

   The show's judges first saw Aiken as a nerdy type unlikely to be any kind of idol Without a source quoting the judges, this is original research

   While noted for his performance of ballads, such as Neil Sedaka's "Solitaire", his upbeat performances, including The Foundations' "Build Me Up Buttercup", were also appreciated. Without a source, this is OR

   Part of his appeal was his "geek to chic" transformation in appearance.

   Aiken appeared without introduction in a well-tailored designer suit and longer, darker hair with bangs, looking so different that many did not recognize him until he began to sing "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me." The sources don't say that many did not recognize him. Saying this is OR without a reference

3:: resulting in what many fans called the "Not-a-Tour". really? Says who?

1. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

2. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   You should find some instances of when the judges criticised his performances on Idol. It's too biassed right now with how well he did

3. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

4. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   yes

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Images need alt text

5. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I did not reach the end of this article; there were simply too many problems. As it stands, the article cannot conceivably pass, although it may one day. At the moment it requires a thorough copyedit, more sourcing, and some polishing. I also have similar concerns as the first GA review, not about lawsuits and rumors of being gay, but about it being unbiassed and NPOV. Good luck. Matthewedwards :  Chat  23:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"Queers in History"

• Stern, Keith (2009), "Clay Aiken", Queers in History, BenBella Books, Inc.; Dallas, Texas, ISBN 978-1933771-87-8

This book was removed from the "further reading" section with the edit summary:

• rmv WP:BLP Material about living persons available solely in questionable sources or sources of dubious value should not be used, either as a source or in "Further reading" or "External links"[2]

I looked at the publisher's website, and it looks respectable to me.[3] On what basis are we saying that it is dubious or questionable?   Will Beback  talk  06:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Parker Foster Aiken

Para on Clay Aiken's son:

"It's a Southern tradition to be given your first name from your grandmama's maiden name."[18] His middle name came from his paternal grandmother's maiden name; using instead the married surnames of their mothers, he and Foster followed that tradition in choosing their son's name.

This doesn't make sense, even without the added complication that Aiken changed his name. PF Aiken's mother is Jaymes Foster. Assuming the child's names are shown in the correct order, 'Foster' surely comes from his maternal side, not paternal, and if they are using the married surnames instead, then they are not following the tradition mentioned. Can anyone fix this, or should I just delete mention of this 'tradition'? Centrepull (talk) 21:07, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Personally I don't see the point of going into the details of how Clay named his son, so I would agree with deleting that section. Ducold (talk) 22:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Introductory job description appropriate?

Am I the only one who finds it odd that the first thing this article tells us (after his full name and date of birth) is his sexual orientation? Do all articles about homosexual persons begin, "____ is a homosexual ____"? Obviously his sexuality is relevant to the article, and may even belong in the opening section, but "a homosexual Amercian pop singer" as a job description? It would seem to me that as a public figure, his role as UNICEF Ambassador is more salient. Matt Thorn (talk) 05:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

That was vandalism. If it hasn't been fixed now, it will be soon. Ducold (talk) 04:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

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