Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 25 July 2024 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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A fact from Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 April 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Yes, the QPQ check tool to the right counts only 9. I don't really trust the QPQ tool that much because it barely counts 40% of my own nominations. But If the nominator feels that they have done less than 20 noms this can go forward or they can do the double. This case is on the honor system.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The tool gives a complete list of the nominations made by Femke since she started editing in 2014. It does not pick up nominations made before 2011, but that is not relevant here. TSventon (talk) 20:11, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An article on a neurological illness should not be written like this, it doesn't read encyclopedic. Comparison with cancer? What, seriously? Most references are ME/CFS advocacy sites. If it's as serious as cancer and AIDS, how come "Doctors may be unfamiliar with ME/CFS, as it is often not fully covered in medical school" and " No specific lab tests are approved for diagnosis; while physical abnormalities can be found, no single finding is considered sufficient for diagnosis"? Overall, the article overexaggerates the illness. Necatorina (talk) 06:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is based primarily on clinical guidelines from NICE, IqWiG, and the CDC, and on the Mayo clinic and the BMJ sources on the illness. I believe those are the best sources on the illness you can get.
The article doesn't say the illness is worse than cancer and AIDS it says the quality of life of people with the illness is worse than examined cancers and HIV/AIDS. The QoL of AIDS is quite good, given effective medication exists.
It may feel like the article describes a more serious illness than you may be familiar with because of how it's currently defined vs how it was defined 10 years ago. Now, to have even mild ME/CFS, you need a 50% reduction in functional capacity compared to pre-illness. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 06:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to underline, the comparison on QOL is sourced to a peer-reviewed study. Meanwhile, it’s not the case that "Most references are ME/CFS advocacy sites." I only see one such reference in almost 100 sources. Innisfree987 (talk) 07:55, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've replaced the research charity with the CDC. In terms of the how tag, on the mortality from ME, the answer is usually malnutritution as far as I'm aware, but I'm struggling to cite this:
The original source describes the two in the same sentence, but does not make the link. It states: "This can lead to loss of ability to work, the need for care including artificial nutrition and, in very severe cases, even death."
The NASEM long COVID report also doesn't say what people die from. It just says over 5,000 have died without clarifying if they also had ME/CFS or what they died from.
Non-MEDRS, but for context, renal failure from ME has also been noted as a cause of death.
My preference is to remove the tag without using any of these sources. But open to adding something if we can of course. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Severe chronic fatigue syndrome should be considered with "central idiopathic hypersomnia" possible comorbidity pathology (both are also "current scientific research pathology unknown and there are sleep disorders" diseases), both are prone to the existence of "drunk every night after sleep" this more significant characteristic, relatively rare characteristics. Moderate to mild chronic fatigue syndrome needs to consider a large number of "common diseases" and "rare diseases" in sleep disorders. Moonlight005 (talk) 04:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A "severe chronic fatigue syndrome"/hypersomnia pathological hypothesis
This is an English version of the pathological hypothesis analysis of "severe chronic fatigue syndrome"/idiopathic hypersomnia, which may be more intuitive for English users.
Url:
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/690767363 or https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309405033349046731031
The title of the article is as follows:
"Pathology of IH may be hyperlocalized carbon dioxide excess"、"An important subtype of idiopathic hypersomnia (also including idiopathic hypersomnia with unknown pathologies, narcolepsy type 2, hypersomnia depression, etc.) is likely to be the mathematical model and analysis of the pathology of hypothalamus and other parts controlling ultra-small vascular lesions (such as blockage) of the awakening nerve nuclei leading to excessive carbon dioxide in a small range".
This does not seem to be discussed in high-quality review articles, so I do not think it deserves a mention here. It is unclear if these links are to scientific articles or more to a blog-type article. For medical content, sources need to meet the criteria as described in WP:MEDRS, which in summary means they should be recent and secondary (a review). —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:24, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your communication and I would like to further explain this pathological hypothesis. The current pathological hypotheses (or merely guesses rather than analyses) of severe chronic fatigue syndrome and idiopathic hypersomnia are basically based on infections (such as viruses, bacteria, etc.), but ignore the more common causes of brain disease such as cerebral vascular blockage, and have not made substantial progress in pathology to date. So here speculation and analysis (have a lot of analysis, specific see link) super local (beside cerebral awakening control nuclei) of small vascular lesions (further cause excessive carbon dioxide, excess carbon dioxide just become the body's natural 7 * 24 hours of endogenous real-time anesthetic) I think maybe is a very worth exploring a pathology.
As I said earlier:Severe chronic fatigue syndrome should be considered with "central idiopathic hypersomnia" possible comorbidity pathology (both are also "current scientific research pathology unknown and there are sleep disorders" diseases), both are prone to the existence of "drunk every night after sleep" this more significant characteristic, relatively rare characteristics. Moonlight005 (talk) 07:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Severe chronic fatigue syndrome and idiopathic hypersomnia should both be rare conditions (it is now certain that idiopathic hypersomnia is a rare condition).
The progress in the study of rare disease pathology is often slow due to the lack of sufficient patient data and research funding.
The pathological hypothesis proposed here is put forward by a patient based on his own feelings and retrieval of papers. So far, it has been freely shared publicly for a year or two, but there is still no substantive feedback from scientific research institutions (such as leave a message for feedback or email replies). It can be seen that the pathological hypothesis of rare diseases is easily ignored, and it is expected that the patient community concerned about "severe chronic fatigue syndrome/idiopathic hypersomnia" will try to communicate this pathological hypothesis to scientific institutions so that they will try to reproduce it in animal experiments. Moonlight005 (talk) 07:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the scientific community hasn't taken note of the hypothesis, it's way too early to include it on Wikipedia. It needs to be covered in reviews, before it's considered sufficiently important to include. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 07:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To convey the pathological hypothesis to the severe chronic fatigue syndrome/sleep "basic research related to the scientific research institutions, others (e.g. "Severe Chronic fatigue syndrome/idiopathic hypersomnia" related patient population) have any good Suggestions? Moonlight005 (talk) 10:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As Femke said, this is not something we should currently include. We're an encyclopedia, so we base our writing on what's already been established and proven. There is certainly value in hypotheses that haven't been proven or widely recognized, but there are better places to discuss these novel ideas, like journals. The Quirky Kitty (talk) 08:41, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion Can we add G93.32 to the med resources navbox? (Please note, my browser is saying the security certificate for the external lookup site expired on 15 July 24.) Haven't boldly added as I gather the previous ICD-10-CM codes were removed following discussion that noted they had been retired/replaced. Given that the 5th characters are not present in WHO's international version of the classification, however, I feel it would have been better update G93.3 to G93.32 rather than remove it in favour of the G93.3 code within ICD-10. (If it weren't for the 5th character, I would be in total agreement for not duplicating G93.3)
Here's the markup if there's agreement to "restore": | ICD10CM = {{ICD10CM|G93.32}}
I get the same issue with my browser. Shall we wait until the website is functional before we include the link? Content-wise, I'm very happy to include it. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 19:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Found out that CDC has an "official" lookup tool. Rather than wait for the "dead" service to renew their security certificates, I've changed the template to point to CDC's search function instead. Little pob (talk) 19:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be reasonable to remove some of the citations in the lead per MOS:LEADCITE? I'm hesitant to make any major changes since I understand the contents of the lead could technically be considered complex/controversial enough to warrant citations.CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the perspective of having an easier ride at FAC I would be okay if somebody cuts the citations. However, this is one of those articles where the balance MOS:LEADCITE describes probably falls more towards not cutting citations further. This was historically and possibly still one of the most contested diseases out there. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 17:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Historically in this article, almost every item in a sentence that hasn't been sourced has been challenged, removed, changed or tagged frequently. For the sake of having a more stable article it would probably be better to leave the citations. Ward20 (talk) 22:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]