Talk:Cheesecake

Order of regions

Why are the regions of the world listed in this order? Should they not be listed alphabetically, i.e. Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, South America? (Or I guess you could put the Americas first, in the order North, South, then Asia). ZackMartin (talk) 12:11, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Usually, these sections seem to begin as a few facts, with newer information usually going at the bottom, and eventually someone adds in section headings. The result is that the order is often pretty much random until someone else comes along and organizes it. You should feel free to be that "someone else" and boldly improve the organization. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Cheese pie

Cheese Pie redirects here. I don't understand this at all - cheese pie is completely unrelated to cheesecake, being a hot savoury dish (at least here in the UK). Is this true in other Anglophone regions? --Ef80 (talk) 18:35, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that it you search for "cherry cream cheese pie" at your favorite web search engine, you'll see what the redirect creator was likely thinking about. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:26, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I see what you mean. It isn't a satisfactory state of affairs though - cheese pie should really be a disambig page, with this article as one of the links. I suppose somebody needs to write a stub for (savoury) cheese pie first though. --Ef80 (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Torta rustica should be mentioned...and cheese pie is considered savoury in the US.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 21:33, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

British cheese pie isn't well defined but is usually some mixture of mashed potato, onion and cheese with a pastry top. It was one of the standard World War II austerity dishes and is much less common today though it is still made - see http://cheesepie.co.uk/, http://www.wartimehousewife.com/2009/08/cheese-pie/. --Ef80 (talk) 00:14, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Both look good but I imagine the second to be more British. With the first, I see three Italian cheeses in a traditional Brit pie.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Cato's cheesecake

The article says:

Cato the Elder's De Agri Cultura includes recipes for two cakes for religious uses: libum and placenta.[5][6] Of the two, placenta is most like most modern cheesecakes, having a crust that is separately prepared and baked.[7] It is important to note that though these early forms are called "cheesecakes", they differed greatly in taste and consistency from the cheesecake that we know today.

There are several mistakes and misconceptions in this passage.

1) Cato indeed gives a recipe for placenta, and indeed the cake contains cheese. But first of all, "placenta" does not mean cheesecake, the word simply means a cake. So the first half the last sentence quoted above is pointless.

2) The other part of the sentence is pointless as well, because the recipe for a cheesecake is given by Cato not in section 85 (placenta), but in section 93 (savillum). A cake baked according to this recipe is virtually identical to modern cheesecake, the only exception being, that Cato's recipe suggests to use honey where we'd use sugar (which was not available to Romans). This adds some flavor (characteristic to honey) to the way the cake tastes, but despite this (minor) difference, savillum is, as I said, identical to modern cheesecake. And yes, I tried the recipe myself.

3) Consequently, the entire passage I am quoting above is wrong, because it first misidentifies the placenta recipe as being a cheesecake recipe, then proceeds to "discover" that placenta "differs greatly in taste and consistency" from our modern cheesecakes. Of course it does - because placenta is NOT a cheesecake. The Cato's cheesecake is savillum.

-79.185.196.88 (talk) 12:50, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Japanese-style cheesecake?

Japan Japanese-style cheesecake relies upon the emulsification of cornstarch and eggs to make a smooth flan-like texture and almost plasticine appearance.

There is no citation for this, and it appears to be fanciful. NotYourFathersOldsmobile (talk) 00:23, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Netherlands/Belgium style

I propose to change "Netherlands/Belgium style" for "Low Countries-style" to avoid repetition--87.115.255.193 (talk) 19:26, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Contradictions/errors

This sentence from 'History' does not make sense:

'An ancient form of cheesecake may have been a popular dish in ancient Greece even prior to Romans' adoption of it with the conquest of Greece.'

It basically says 'cheesecake was popular in Greece even before Rome got the idea from Greece'. Does anyone know what the intent of the statement is?

This sentence, also from 'History': 'The type of modern cheesecake that has an uncooked, cream-cheese filling on a cookie-crumb base is an American invention that differs greatly from English cheesecakes, which traditionally include dried fruits and spices and are baked in the oven.' implies that english style is baked and does not feature a buscuit base and cream-cheese and american style is unbaked, however everything in the 'National varieties' section contradicts this. Such as here:

'In the United Kingdom and Ireland,, cheesecake is typically made with a base of crushed, buttered biscuits.....The usual filling is a mixture of cream cheese, sugar, and cream[citation needed] and it is not baked, but refrigerated.'

Here:

'The United States has several different recipes for cheesecake and this usually depends on the region in which the cake was baked.....These cheesecakes are typically baked before serving.'

And here:

'New York–style cheesecake......when the cheesecake is cooked. It is mixed with vanilla extract and sugar and replaced in the oven, essentially making the cheesecake twice-baked.

'Cheesecakes represented as being "New York style" are the most common variety in the United States;'

I suspect it is the 'History' section in the wrong but can anyone confirm this? Gehyra Australis (talk) 03:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I've tagged the article as cotradictory. Gehyra Australis (talk) 04:34, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think that the article as it stands is necessarily contradictory; it might merely be unclearly written. I haven't yet gone through all of the sources for the History section, but I think that what it is trying to say is that early European cheesecakes were baked, and that the idea of an unbaked cheesecake is originally an American one. That doesn't necessarily contradict the statement that today, the unbaked cheesecake is more common in Britain, where baked cheesecakes are referred to as "American-style", that the National varieties section indicates. (It might, of course, simply be wrong, but I'll determine that when I've actually read the sources...) Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 15:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've now read the relevant article (Wilson 2002), and it seems that the history stuff is all correct (or, at least, verifiably what the article says). It also seems clear from looking at recipes that "New York style" cheesecake is baked. The idea that set cheesecake is in some way British, is, however, more difficult to find a source for. The only thing I can find is this article, which attributes the idea to wikipedia and hence obviously does not qualify as a reliable source.

More problematic is the fact that it turns out that the final paragraph of the section History ("The type of modern cheesecake that has an uncooked, cream-cheese filling on a cookie-crumb base is an American invention that differs greatly from English cheesecakes, which traditionally include dried fruits and spices and are baked in the oven.") is taken verbatim from the article referenced, but it is not inside quotation marks, which is WP:Plagiarism. As far as I can this was the first introduction of the line. I am fixing it now. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 16:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I've removed the tag. 58.167.192.180 (talk) 12:04, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Sugar Content (Historical)

I'll start by rambling: it seems to me that cheesecake I ate 30 to 40 years ago was less sweet than the cheesecakes that I eat (occasionally) today. It would be interesting to me to see any kind of historical data as to typical sugar content (separated by type of cheesecake) over the last 50 years or so. Or, suggestions as to a source of such information.--Rhkramer (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Update: Well obviously one approach would be to calculate the sugar content based on some recipes, some old, some new. If I get ambitious enough I might try that. I might have to bake a cheesecake or two to get a ratio between unbaked and baked weight--I guess I'd be forced to eat those cakes, too--sounds like a great burden. ;-) --Rhkramer (talk) 19:47, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

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Why?

Why can't I edit this page, despite having an account? --Angol Fear (talk) 17:29, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Typo

The final photo spells 'sauce' as 'source'.

Vatrushka isnt cheesecake

Russian "Vatrushka" its not a variant of cheesecake! Its bun with cottage cheese. Look: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ватрушка or just images - ватрушка But tvorozhnaya zapekanka - yes, smth similar with cheesecake. --Вадим де Голь (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this note. I have removed that sentence. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2020

Change type of desert in the table from “tart” to “pie” since cheesecakes are usually taller than a tart and has a creamy filling more similar to a cookies and cream pie than any tart 2600:1700:5C50:B580:8C0C:BC50:38F3:D3FE (talk) 13:32, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. The § Classification section gives a number of different possibilities, so I simply changed the infobox to reflect that. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:38, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Easy Cheesecake recepie

YIELD: 16-17 cupcake size cheesecakes

INGREDIENTS:

4 pks digestive biscuits/any cookie

4 tbsp margarine, melted

16oz cream cheese

1/2 cup sour cream

2 tsp vanilla essence

1/3 cup granulated sugar

2 eggs

Strawberry topping (or any that you like) DIRECTIONS

Add cookies/biscuits to a food processor. Process until they turn into fine crumbs. Empty in the crumbs into a bowl. Add the melted margarine to the bowl and mix well. Add cupcake liners to a baking tray. Add approx 1 tbsp of the crumbs/margarine mixture to the cupcake liner. Using your fingers, press the crumbs firmly together to form the crust at the bottom of the liner. Add cream cheese to a mixing bowl. Mix/Beat until light and fluffy. Add sugar, sour cream, vanilla essence to the cream cheese. Mix well. Add eggs in one at a time. Beat until the mixture is smooth. Fill each cupcake liner 3/4 way with the cheesecake mixture. Place baking tray in a water bath. Bake at 350 degrees for approx 30 minutes. The cheesecakes should ideally feeling slightly bouncy when you touch it after roughly 30 minutes.

Allow the cheesecakes to cool then top with your favorite topping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Radz02 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Add information about Basque cheesecakes

Unsure if this should be a new wiki page or a new "Basque"/"Spain" section in this "Cheesecakes" page under the "National Varieties: Europe" section:

Basque cheesecake was created in 1990 by chef Santiago Rivera of La Viña in San Sebastian, Spain. It is a baked crustless cheesecake with a creamy custard-like centre, which sometimes can be molten like lava cake, and main defining characteristic of a caramelized "burnt" top. This cheesecake is now popularized around the world with other restaurants, bakeries, and home chefs making their own versions.

Tshbooks (talk) 19:45, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

References

Proposed merge of Pineapple cheesecake into Cheesecake

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not merged. Article was deleted at AfD with the conclusion that there was nothing worth merging. Lord Belbury (talk) 10:05, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

---

Trivial variant Spudlace (talk) 06:06, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support also Enyucado, Tu (cake), Smoked salmon cheesecake. UserTwoSix (talk) 06:38, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Those would need separate discussions. Smoked salmon cheesecake would require a rewrite of the lede sentence and a substantial change of the scope of this article. That is not trivial and would be proposed separate from this discussion. Spudlace (talk) 22:27, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, the articles were so short I thought they could be easily merged. But not really knowing about them, they do indeed seem separate from cheesecake. The smoked salmon one is about savoury cheesecake, is that what you were getting at? UserTwoSix (talk) 23:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, exactly, trivially it can be topped with any kind of fruit (craberry, strawberry, etc) but rewriting the lead is outside scope when the common name in Merriam Webster is for a dessert. Spudlace (talk) 22:14, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support. The article has no reason to exist. There's basically no information here, and there's nothing to indicate it's distinct from regular cheesecake DeputyBeagle (talk) 16:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I think someone likes pineapple cheesecake. UserTwoSix (talk) 17:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment This is cut and dry. This request is a success, but I cannot find any way to merge the info into the main cheesecake article since it is simply not relevant. Instead I'll propose it's deleted and place a proposed deletion tag at the top of the page since I do not expect it to be controversial DeputyBeagle (talk) 20:03, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment Looks like there has already been a proposed deletion so I will start an AfD discussion instead DeputyBeagle (talk) 20:15, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2021

Veg Cheesecake No eggs are added to this cheesecake. these are gluten free.

100% Veg Triple Ripple Cheesecake

Cheesecakeloverindia (talk) 02:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ƒirefly ( t · c ) 19:17, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Good grief

Are people really so fired up about cheesecake the page needed to be locked?!. Unlock the page already, or fix the red links. Fruit sauce probably needs to link to List of sauces #Sweet sauces.

 Done, I've made fruit sauce redirect to List_of_sauces#Sweet_sauces. Articles get locked for all kinds of reasons, which are only rarely to do with how important the subject is. --Lord Belbury (talk) 10:02, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

"Cheesecake" with Orange Slices?

Y'all sure that picture in the article's gallery is a cheesecake? It looks like just a wheel of uncut cheese. GuavaTrain (talk) 22:26, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Reference 14 - Cheesecake.com

I do not believe, that this source is reliable. It is used to show, that yeast was apparently used in the majority (if not all) cheescake recipes as late as the 18th century. But the German wikipedia entry for cheesecake lists the ingredients of a cheesecake from the end of the 16th century, with no yeast to be found. Making the statement from "Cheesecake.com" dubious at best, as it gives no sources what so ever. This is besides the fact, that a cheesecake company's website cannot be a credible source for a wikipedia article - this is for marketing, not a scholarly endevour. 88.152.184.17 (talk) 22:57, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are also bad sources. Can you find a good one that addresses this? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Cheesecake Enthusiast

Oliver Lewis-Burrell 2A02:C7E:2B34:2F00:A42E:394:A0FE:2658 (talk) 21:19, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Unify the spelling please

Under Chicago-Style it's "cream-cheese" and under New York-Style it's "cream cheese" 2.202.124.95 (talk) 20:12, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

I have amended the former Sbishop (talk) 15:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Dutch cheesecake [kwarktaart]

Not sure when or why that image in the gallery section became labelled as Dutch cheesecake. The original image source describes it as Thuringian, which is an area of Germany. Can someone change/remove this for factual accuracy? Thanks in advance :) Anticynicism (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2023

it's not "casatta siciliana", it's "Cassata siciliana" 79.31.159.179 (talk) 20:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done except for the capitalisation. Maproom (talk) 18:54, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Wrong spelling - Italy section

It's not "pastichiera Napoletana", it is "pastiera Napoletana" 87.9.155.44 (talk) 22:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Thank you for this note. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2023

The section "Switzerland" should not be its own section; it should be part of "National varieties". This seems to be a mistake as "North America" and "South America" are also in the "Switzerland" section. PaU1570 (talk) 10:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC) I have amended the heading format. Ponsonby100 (talk) 10:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for highlighting! Jonathan Deamer (talk) 10:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Hip Hop 50

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2024 and 4 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Egna389 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by KING162 (talk) 16:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

NY cheesecake edit request

Please add Gil Marks, https://books.google.com/books?id=gFK_yx7Ps7cC&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PT392&dq="reuben" cheesecake&hl=en&source=gb_mobile_entity&ovdme=1#v=onepage&q="reuben" cheesecake&f=false see here on the origin of NY cheesecake, Reuben's Restaurant, and Lindy's Cribb tibley (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

•  Done Andre🚐 23:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2024

After the next-to-last sentence, add:

His grandson Alan Rosen, who now owns and runs the restaurant, once sold 2,400 cheesecakes in four minutes to television shoppers.

Also, in the prior sentence, after "Harry Rosen" add "in 1950". 184.153.21.19 (talk) 15:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

References

 Partly done: added the year as suggested, but the 1997 promotional stunt would seem undue in what's currently a single paragraph overview of the most significant things about New York cheesecakes. The Junior's article would be a better place for this. --Belbury (talk) 15:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

That's not a "stunt." By any means. It's a sale on QVC, a major network devoted not to stunts but to television sales. And this sale of cheesecakes was notable enough that the New York Times covered it. It's obviously an extraordinary sale to TV shoppers of NY cheesecakes. And Alan Rosen is obviously notable in his own right. --184.153.21.19 (talk) 16:34, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request 2 on 29 October 2024

That said (see above), an alternative edit is:

"In 1997, The New York Times reported that critics had called Junior's cheesecake "the best cheesecake in the material world," and "edible ivory, like some new element on the atomic chart," and Junior's has used the same recipe since it created it in 1960; owner Alan Rosen has promised never to change it.”

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.153.21.19 (talk) 16:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: that's an opinion WP:UNDUE. M.Bitton (talk) 22:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

User:M.Bitton An editor's opinion is not worthy of reflection, but we publish opinions all the time at the project. For example, reviews. This is an opinion of critic reflected in the NYT. In any event, what of simply the end then - "Junior's has used the same recipe since it created it in 1960; owner Alan Rosen has promised never to change it.” And I still believe that the above - incorrectly termed "a stunt" - is misunderstood. --184.153.21.19 (talk) 04:29, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I do think Alan and the reviews of Junior's are notable, reliable, and worthy, but Wikipedia discourages WP:PUFFERY/WP:PEACOCK and WP:WEASEL, and we have to consider the relevance to the main cheesecake page as opposed to the page on Alan or Junior's or whatever. It's a question of the tone. I think Alan's promotional and marketing genius are probably a good reason why Junior's is a big national cheesecake brand and legendary. But we want to avoid saying that in such strong terms in the encyclopedic tone and more flatly and with a reference-library-boringness bent, report stuff. Using the same recipe since 1960 might be worthy of inclusion although it might belong on another article. Promising not to change it seems less relevant to the overall topic of cheesecake in general. The problem isn't that there are opinions. Opinions are perfectly fine, and superlative ones are often included in articles. However, the quote seems gratuitous. The way most articles would frame it would be more like, "critics have consistently rated Junior's as one of the top commercial cheesecake bakeries." If indeed there are sources for that. It would also make sense to compare and look at the ratings of other cheesecakes if any other brands have similar accolades, since this isn't the Junior's article where more in-depth reception data probably belongs. Andre🚐 20:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)