Talk:Beyoncé/Archive 4

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Lip Synching

I see nothing referring to the recent, revealing Today Show incident in which a lip-synching track for "If I Were a Boy" failed to play, forcing Beyonce to attempt a live vocal performance of the entire song.
Are we waiting for more details? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.0.43.238 (talk) 14:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, that "incident" was nothing more than a hoax. Someone edited a clip of the real performance, and did a terrible job. But apparently it doesn't take much to fool this country. Secondly, why would that need to be mentioned on an encyclopedia anyway? Jdot01 (talk) 04:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Third Album

Beyonce did not have the lead role in Dreamgirls - it was a supporting rolem and you all should change it. Don't fall victim to the siren's sound... 152.132.9.71 (talk) 16:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Can I ask why does the page about the next album keep getting deleted, after all it has been announced officially and was cited?? Wneedham02 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Just came across some info at work that her next album will be simply named "Beyonce..." wether its true we'll have to wait and see. Wneedham02 (talk) 14:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Should the title of the page be changed in accordance to her name change? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.179.233 (talk) 22:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No, she's only using "Sasha Fierce" as an alter ego/character and, so far, only for one album. Jack White did something similar when he renamed himself "Three Quid" for a tour. The re-direct and AKA are sufficient for now. Ariadne55 (talk) 16:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

SHasha is dewad —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.168.103 (talk) 06:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Beyonce's Untitled Third Album

It's going to be called either "Empowerment" or "Virtuoso Intellect". —Preceding unsigned comment added by JUSTiNCR3DiBL3 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It needs to be deleted again, redirected back to the Beyonce page. They need to wait until they at least have a title or complete tracklisting. There is no need to make an acception for her just because she's a good singer. Readyseason (talk) 20:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

"Knowles is expected to perform a world exclusive of the first single of her forthcoming album at the MTV Europe Music Awards 2008 in Liverpool, England."

Is this supposed to mean that the single won't be released until then? Because 1) the singles will be released Oct. 14th, and 2) the awards ceremony is only 12 days before the album is to be released. This statement is a little confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.87.160.2 (talk) 05:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Sales

I've redone the sales portion. Gotham magazine is a regional magazine and it is not as reliable as Billboard (who specializes in tracking record sales and is the authority in the U.S. on such matters) or the BBC. PhoenixPrince (talk) 23:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Those sources are well over three years old. Who's to say they're not out of date? DiverseMentality 05:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Three years does not make albums sales jumpe from 50 million to 100 million. ANd there will be a third source added very soon corroborating the same information. PhoenixPrince (talk) 11:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Betonce Knowles and Jay-Z have just recently had a baby not long after the wedding and her no album If i were a boy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.199.218 (talk) 09:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

what was meant by 50 million are albums, SONY BMG confirmed that DC3 has sold more than 50 million ALBUMS!! HAVEN'T you heard about their single sales?.. and the fact that WMA won't give best-selling titles to those who haven't sold more than 100m records.. and IN "AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS" also it was said there, how can you(i don't even know who you are) tell that these PEOPLE/INSTITUTIONS are lying? LOL AMA is like grammys they can't sacrifice their credibility just 4 beyonce!, talk straight, and why did you put only 50 million with DC3? did you forget she has a solo career? I'll change it again to 100m and 25m, WMA,AMA and gotham magazine are enough as sources! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It includes single sales and album sales, and it also includes solo sales too, review the sources. WMA is not and has never been a reliable source for record sales because they don't track don't track sales. More sources approximate the number around 50 million, than any other number. BTW AMA is not like the Grammy's and I don't recall them saying that ever, which is irrelevant unless you can provide a published source for it. SO why don't you leave it as is instead of making unsupported claims and using unreliable sources. PhoenixPrince (talk) 03:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is a fourth reliable source that places they're sales around 50 million. [1] PhoenixPrince (talk) 04:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

you didn't hear AMA say that? LOL now i know, your late in terms of hollywood news, it was in AMA 2007 when she was given the international artist award! she has sold 130 million records acc. to them! LOL! if WMA is no reliable then so you are, you don't even watch TV i guess hahaha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 00:03, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

According to her own record company she hasn't. They would know better then anyway so in other words...trumped!BTW I only watch the important awards shows, like the Grammy's and I don't stan 4 Beyonce. PhoenixPrince (talk) 00:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Uhm. Whats up with the sources?

Ok so the voice section cites some COVE magazine thing and I followed the link but it's only some SMH.com.au article about similarities between Beyonce and J-Lo and Beyonce's nonconformity with fame. I think it's supposed to be source 118, not 117. I guess that's easy to correct but I suspect a LOT more sources are being used incorrectly in this article. In the Destiny Fulfilled section there's a claim that "Check On It" is the first song from a soundtrack to hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100. The source it cites (and the sources around it on the source list) only calls the song a "#1". AND If you look at the Billboard Hot 100, you'll see that the "Lady Marmalade" cover by Christina Aguilera, Pink, Mya and Lil' Kim from the Moulin Rouge soundtrack topped the chart for five weeks just like "Check On It" (and actually sold more copies overall). Is anything in this article accurate? Shouldn't the hardcore fans be looking into this? Gosh! =P --Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 21:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry. We will be checking them once we got vacant time. --Efe (talk) 23:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I Am... Sasha Fierce

Can someone put some more info on I Am... Sasha Fierce on the main Beyonce page? It's looking a little empty compared to the other albums. Talk about the two main singles (If I Were A Boy/Single Ladies) chart positions etc.

Oh-tis-daveo (talk) 02:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Worth Mentioning?

Jay-Z and Beyonce made $162 million from June 1, 2007 and June 1, 2008. They currently own the top spot with $77 million ahead of the second placers Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith. [2] [3][4][5][6] Happy Editing! (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

NEW RECORD SALES

according to WMA 2008 beyonce has sold more than 120million records worldwide.. is World Music Awards. The World Music Awards (founded in 1989) is an international awards show that annually honors recording artists based on their worldwide sales figures, which are provided by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Tell me shouldn't it be posted in here.. I mean are we saying that WMA is lying? after all the awards?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trd3iiZfHHU

Sweet heart, the WMA doesn't track actually sales (for the majority) and that was the same introduction that the AMA's gave Beyonce (The AMA'S is produced by SONY by the way).

In 2004, it was a known fact that DC has only sold around around 30 million albums and around 20 million singles.

Beyonce has only sold around 30 million records.

DC FIRST ALBUM

1.5-2million

SECOND ALBUM

12-13 million

THIRD ALBUM

9 million

4th album

6 million

greatest hits 2-3 million

EQUALS under 35 million —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyoncefan504 (talk • contribs) 05:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Bday0495 (talk) 05:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Beyoncé RECORD SALES (Album Singles Ringtones DVD)

-Albums Dangerously in Love 11.000.000 B'day 6.000.000 I am...Sasha Fierce 2.000.000 TOTAL ALBUM SALES 19.000.000

-Singles -Crazy in Love: 500.000 US 320.000 Uk 500.000 Jp (WW 2.000.000) -Baby Boy: 500.000 US 100.000 UK (WW 1.250.000) -Me, Myself and I: 40.000 UK (WW 500.000) -Naughty Girl: 500.000 US 50.000 UK (WW 850.000) Dangerously in Love Singles: 4.600.000 -Check on It: 1.000.000 130.000 UK (WW 1.500.000) -Deja Vu: 400.000 US 130.000 Uk 35.000 Au (WW 900.000) -Ring The Alarm: 400.000 US (WW 500.000) -Irreplaceable: 2.300.000 US 230.000 Uk 70.000 Au (WW 3.000.000) -Listen 250.000 US 100.000 UK (WW 420.000) -Beautiful Liar 900.000 US 310.000 UK 35.000 Au 60.000 ES (WW 2.000.000) -Amor Gitano 160.000 ES Other B'day Songs WW 400.000 B'day Singles: 9.000.000 -If I Were a Boy 1.220.000 US 350.000 UK 35.000 Au 22.000 FR 20.000 Es (WW 2.300.000) -Single Ladies 870.000 US 60.000 UK (WW 1.100.000) IASF singles: 3.400.000 TOTAL SINGLE SALES 17.000.000

TOTAL ALBUM SINGLES= 36.000.000

-Ringtones -Crazy in Love: 1.000.000 US -Baby Boy: 1.000.000 US -Dangerously in Love: 500.000 US -Check on It: 1.000.000 US -Ring The Alarm: 500.000 US -Irreplaceable: 3.000.000 US -Beautiful Liar: 310.000 US -Amor Gitano: 320.000 Es -Love in this Club part II: 500.000 Us TOTAL RINGTONES: 8.130.000 (Only Certified ringtones)

DVD -Live in Wembley 4x plat -B'day Video Anthology 2x plat US -The Beyoncé Experience Live 5x plat

TOTAL RECORDS= 50.030.000 Records

She Def Has Sold More Than 50 Million It's Hard To Get An Exact Number. But With The I Am... Era Out Now She's Def. Sold More Than This.

Protect this page

Vandalism has been kind of prevalent on this page lately, should we consider protecting it? --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Can't hurt. Carl.bunderson (talk) 08:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

12 Songwriting and Producing

There should be an update in the "Songwriting and Producing" section on Beyonce. With "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" advancing to No. 1 on the HOT 100 (BILLBOARD), Beyonce Knowles has now moved past Diane Warren (who has nine No. 1s to her songwriting credit). Beyonce and Madonna are now tied in second place among female songwriters in this category. Madonna has received songwriting credit for ten of her twelve No. 1s. Beyonce has contributed lyrics to all of Destiny's Child's four No. 1s, along with the five No. 1s outside the group. In addition to this, D. Child's tune "Soldier" was sampled on the No. 1 song "Grillz" by Nelly, Paul Wall, Ali & Gipp. So that's ten total for Beyonce. Mariah Carey is in first place among female songwriters, having contributed lyrics to all of her No. 1s except her remake of the Jackson 5's "I'll Be There." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.255.32 (talk) 08:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

This might appear an original research. Hopefully Billboard will write about it, usually in the column ask billboard and chart beat. Hopefully. --Efe (talk) 08:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Page too long

this page is too long! i mean she has released 3 albums, she's just at the beginning of her career! it's too celebrating... babys, she's a normal pop singer who released 3 albums! --93.151.245.5 (talk) 16:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It reads like it's a publicity page for the singer, not an encyclopedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.32.166 (talk) 00:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

This page is too long, I'm sure there is repetitive information here. 76.217.34.69 (talk) 06:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't depends on the album released. She has been in the recording industry for over ten years. --Efe (talk) 06:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Well take the introduction for example. I don't think it's necessary to include every song she has that wen to number one in the beginning or include the fact that she was nominated for three golden globes for two different movies. Saying something like Beyonce is a golden lobe nominated actress should suffice. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:01, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Had a petty fight with another user because of this detailed info. --Efe (talk) 07:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Also mentioning that she has been with Jay-z since 2002 and the date they got married is trivial and unnecessary in the intro since it's in the infobox and in the article already. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe she married to Jay-Z is enough. --Efe (talk) 07:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Well here's what I suggest, let me know if you agree and we can work together on make the article more concise so it can be featured. I'm taking examples from the featured articles pages, for instance Angelina Jolie and Mariah Carey. What I have noticed is that with Mariah's pages, the info for each album is limited to short paragraphs where as with Beyonce's page they are exceptionally long. Some of the info should simply just be mentioned on the albums page, for instance first week sales, they are aren't significant for any of the albums, they haven't broken any records. And going into depth about each single is not necessary. Also we should remove the inclusion of live performances that aren't culturally notable. The sections called "stage" and "image" don't seem necessary because they're arguable and the music and voice, and songwriting and producing sections are cumbersome. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:35, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Another user passed this to FAC but I suggested to withdraw because there are still lots of info to add and remove. --Efe (talk) 07:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

ok. Do you agree about the changes? PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Why are you asking me? --Efe (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Because you're the only other person here lol. PhoenixPrince (talk) 08:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. Any can do it, as long as its not detrimental to the integrity of the article. --Efe (talk) 08:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

This page sounds like it's being edited by her parents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.56.141 (talk) 00:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah this page is way too long. The entire "Style and Image" section is a big joke. It makes the page feel like a fan site created by her father as oppose to a tru encylopedia. I mean, some fan actually created a "legacy and influence" section, I mean SERIOUSLY??? This article is no longer an encyclopedia, it has become a fansite.Shoop85 (talk) 03:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

You need to point exactly what you think that is making this page looks like it was fan-made and then we can work it. Saying that a entire section is a big joke will not really help, if you did not know. Sparks Fly 02:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Voice Type

There is some discrepancy on the correct vocal classification of Beyonce. There are some that think that she's properly classified as a mezzo-soprano while others believe she's actually a true soprano. Individual voices are very unique and it can be very difficult to label a voice as one type versus another. When one does so however, there are many factors to be considered.

Normally, the label of soprano or mezzo-soprano(and the various types within each of the two categories) is assigned to singers who sing classical music. These are usually operatic singers, who through extensive study and application, have developed voices that possess a variety of vocal attributes and qualities that aren't normally exhibited in the voices of non-classical singers(R&B, pop, rock, etc). Some of the differences in the vocal attributes in these two different types of singers is what's referred to in the classical music world as vocal weight, color, tone and range(the group of tones that an individual singer can sing going from the highest to lowest).

In the classical world, sopranos generally have lighter voices and they are able to sing higher tones going up to High C and beyond while the mezzo tends to have a heavier and darker sound with a comfort level in moderate to low tones. This isn't always the case, because as mentioned previously, each singer and their individual voice is unique and therefore there are times when you'll find a singer that has both soprano and mezzo traits--sometimes equally. The singer might have a husky tone but she's still able to sing high notes as well. I said all of that to say that in Beyonce's case, people tend to label her as a mezzo-soprano due to the huskiness of her sound while not considering her ample and extended upper register which allows her to ascend all the way upward to a true soprano's High C. She doesn't sing the note that often, however she does hit and sustain it with apparent ease during the course of her lead vocals at the end of the Destiny's Child cover of the song, "Emotion" from the studio album, Survivor. She has sung the note while performing the song live in addition to the recording which suggests that the top C(and the notes leading up to it)poses no problems for her to sing. That's a trait of a true soprano.

It isn't always easy to classify a voice as is the situation in Beyonce's case because her voice encompasses traits of both the soprano and the mezzo-soprano. Admittedly, her voice does have an undeniable robust huskiness to it, however she repeatedly sings tones and displays tendencies that overall are associated with that of a soprano.

Aquarpio (talk) 10:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

She is a mezzo-soprano. She cannot hit the Soprano C in full voice and her highest demosntrated belt is a G5 while her highest theorized belt (by me) is an A5. She sounds her best in her middle and lower range. Mezzo-Soprano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.40.22.242 (talk) 00:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Awards

Shouldn't there be some sort of Awards chart showing some wins and/or nominations as well as a link to the Awards page, instead of just the link in the Beyonce Knowles template? Wneedham02 (talk) 22:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

No, that is obviously not necessary. Faethon Ghost (talk) 02:12, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

It would be unwise, IMO. Her awards are mentioned in the article and putting up a section dedicated to this would lengthen the article more. --Efe (talk) 03:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Wneedham02. I came here for the exact same reason. I think there at least needs to be a drop-down list of the awards and nominations she has received over the years. The way they're mentioned doesn't make it easier if someone just wanted see her awards history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.71.241 (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

No need and would only lengthens the article. --Efe (talk) 06:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Obama's inaugural speech

Isn't she performing on one of those parties held for Obama's inaugural? If she is, shouldn't we mention it? It is an honor to do so.206.40.103.32 (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

not a bad idea but it would sound trivial when we review the career of such a major talent in retropect several years later. I think we'd better pend it until something, as alledged, have developed into an affair:) or something like that.--125.33.103.84 (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

i love beyonce —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.161.208 (talk) 03:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Charity work

Beyonce has done alot of charity work for her community, and has made numerous donations to her church and other churches as well. shouldn't we mention that too?Anniedote (talk) 14:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

African American

I don't know why an editor has changed "African American" to "Black" in the description of her parents - this is long-standing wording and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change it. Any thoughts? I put it back to the original - should discuss rather than continue to revert. Tvoz/talk 04:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Beyonce' Knowles is a Talented, Beautiful and Celebrated "Black Woman"

Using The Term "Black" Is More Valid When There Are "White" African Americans

She Has won Black Awards and she was born in America and where and what country in Africa did she imigrate from ? So when you can tell me those facts then the woman is Black. Teresa Heinz Kerry is African American and I can tell you what year and what country in Arica she is from. October 5, 1938 Portuguese East Africa, at the time a colony and now the independent nation of Mozambique. So that makes her African American since she imigrated to the United States in 1963. Now the term "African American" can be Valid for Black or White People that Migrate From a Country in Africa. prefix:User_talk:Tvoz —Preceding unsigned comment added by AFSOCSARGE (talk • contribs) 22:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

In general, I agree that "African-American" is one of the dumbest terms to ever come along, and I'm pretty strict about removing it from people that are not citizens of the US. It is, however, the standard term to use in reference to black citizens of the US, and changing it here isn't going to fly. You'd pretty much need a Wikipedia-wide consensus to make it stick, and that isn't going to happen.—Kww(talk) 22:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree it is a "Very Dumb Term" so my point is that there is no doubt that she is "Black" with out question stating she is "Black" is a fact. The Term African-American" was brought on during the Late 80's when "African Style Attire" came in Vougue and much like the "Jerhi Curl" it is a "Trend" that has stayed too long. Can we agree that Black or African American can be used ?

I See Smokey Robinson Stated It Best:

I love being black. I love being called black I love being an American I love being a black American

[But] As a black man in this country I think it’s a shame that Every few years We get a change of name.

Since those first ships from Africa That came across the sea… There were already black men in this country Who were free.

And as for those who came over On those terrible boats They were called niggars & slaves And told what to do and how to behave.

And then ‘massah’ [master] started trippin’ Doing his midnight tippin’ Down to the slave shacks where He forced he and great-great [great] grandma to be together.

And if great-great grandpa protested [?], He got tarred and feathered [if not lynched/hung by the neck on the closest tree] And at the same time the black men in the country who were free Were made [put] with the tribes like the Apache or the Cherokee [savages & subhuman]

And as a result of all of that We’re a parade of every shade [of color/melanin in the skin] And in this late day and age you can be sure There ain’t too many in this country whose bloodline is pure

But according to a geological, geographical, genealogical study Published in Time Magazine The black African people were the first on the scene

So for what it’s worth The black African people were the first on earth And through migration [miscegenation; quite different but more scientific] Our characteristics started to change] And rearrange to whatever climate we migrated to

And that’s how I became me and you became you.

So if We’re goin’ to go “back,” let’s go ALL the way back And if Adam was black and Eve was black Then that kind of makes it a natural fact that Everybody in America is an African American.

Everybody in Europe is an African-European Everybody in the Orient is an African-Asian And so on and so on [“und so weiter” in German meaning “and so forth.”]… That is if the origin of man is what we’re going to go on.

And if one drop of black blood is like they say, Then everybody’s black anyway! So quit trying to change my identity [today] I’m already know who I was meant to be.

I’m a black American, born and raised And Brother James Brown wrote a wonderful phrase: “Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud… Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud.”

Cause I’m proud to be black, and I ain’t never lived in Africa And ‘cause my great-great grand-daddy did On my daddy’s side… Then I [might] wanna go back.

Now I have nothing against [Africa] But I’ve been blessed to go a lot of places in this world. If you ask me where I choose to live, I pick America… hands down!

Now by and by, we [blacks] were called “negroes.” And after awhile That name was banished. Anyway “negro” is just how you say “black” in Spanish.

Then we were called “colored.” Everybody is one color or another And I think it’s a shame that We hold that against each other.

And it seems like we reverted back To a time when being called “black” was an insult Even if it was another black man who said it, A fight would result.

We’ve been so brainwashed that “black” was wrong That even the yellow niggas and the black niggas Couldn’t get along.

But then came the 1960s When we struggled and died to be called equal and black And we walked with pride with our heads on high And our shoulders pushed back… and black was beautiful.

But, I guess that wasn’t good enough Cause now it’s become some other stuff

Who comes up with this shit anyway (?) Was it one, or a group of niggas just sittin’ ‘round one day?

And then we’re all a little insecure again ‘bout being called black And decided that “African American” sounded a lil’ more exotic! Well I think you were being A little more neurotic. [if not psychotic]

It’s that same mentality that got Amos & Andy R put off the air because They were embarrassed about the way the “characters” spoke And as a result of that action, a lot of wonderful black actors Ended up broke…

When we were just laughing and having fun about ourselves So I say [f.u] if you can’t take a joke. You didn’t see the “Beverly Hillbillies” being protested by White Folk! [including the jews]

And if you think that ‘cause you think That being called “African American” that all black people’s minds are at ease Since we affectionately call each other nigga, then I affectionately say to you: Nigga Please!

How come I didn’t get a chance to vote on who I’d like to be Who gave you the right to make that decision for me It ain’t under your rule or your dominion And I’m entitled to my own opinion.

Now there are some African Americans here But they recently moved here from places like Kenya, Ethiopia, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Zaire. But not a brother whose family lived in this country for generations…

Occupying space in all the locations: New York, Miami, L.A., Detroit, [&] Chicago Even if he’s wearing a dashiki and sportin’ an Afro.

And even if searchin’ your race You’ll find out quick,You’re not an African Just a black American in Africa Taking up space

Why get yourself [puffed up] to go back And you went. Most people there wouldn’t claim you were one of them As a pure bred daughter or son of them.

Your heritage is right here and now No matter what you call yourself or what you say And a lot of people died To make it that way.

If you think America is a leader on any quality, suffering or grieving (?) How come there are so many people coming [here], and so few leaving?

Rather than all this fine thought When America, should you [be] promotin’, if you want to change something Use your privilege: Get to the polls Come and suppotin’!

God knows we’ve earned the right to be called American Americans at last And rather than you [anyone] forward with progress, You’re dwelling in the past.

We’ve struggled too long and come too far Instead of folks to know Who we were Just be proud of Who we Are

We’re on the only people’s who’s name Is always a trend When is this shit going to end? Look at all the different colors of our skin.

Black is not our color It’s our core It’s what we’ve been living, & fighting And dying for…

But if you choose To be called African American, And that’s your preference (?), Then I give you that reference

But I know on this issue that I don’t stand alone on my own. And if I do, then let me be me And I’d appreciate it if when you see me, You say:

There goes a man who says it loud I’m black, I’m black… I’m a black American And I’m proud…

‘Cause I love being an American And I love being black I love being called black Yeah I said it; and I don’t take it back.

-Smokey Robinson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KKyw8V-l0

Case Closed !AFSOCSARGE (talk) 23:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Sarge —Preceding unsigned comment added by AFSOCSARGE (talk • contribs) 22:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I’m not certain why at one moment you confirm and state “ "African-American" is one of the dumbest terms to ever come along” then you proceed to propitiate it? Given that the Term Black or African-American can be used why would you use a term that is “Dumb” in your words? That is like you debating the term “Woman” vs “Female” when either would be seen as a valid description. I fully understand the term African-American is used in American English Lexicon but the fact still remains it is a term used “To Describe a Black American”. You yourself have used it in description. “It is, however, the standard term to use in reference to black citizens of the US” so when it is a “Reference To Black Citizens” how is using “Black” not valid. As far as an Island you still have not come up with a reason why African-American should be used over Black? Ever Ethnic group in this country claim a Nation not a Continent, is Mexico not part of North America, when have you ever heard a person of Mexican descent state they are an “American-American” ? I see that you were born Over-Seas which you of all people would have a better grasp of Color vs Nationality. There are Black People all along the South Pacific and Asia that have All the Black features of Blacks from the African Continent.

The term black people usually refers to a racial group of humans with a dark brown skin color, but it has also been used to categorise a number of diverse populations into one common group. Some definitions of the term include only people of relatively recent Sub Saharan African descent (see African diaspora). Among the members of this group, dark skin color is typically accompanied by the expression of natural afro-hair texture. Other definitions of the term Black extend to any of the populations characterized by dark skin color, a definition that also includes certain populations in Oceania, Southeast Asia[1][2], and the southern Middle East[3]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

So with this “Fact” who is to say that the Knowles family did not descend from Oceania, Southeast Asia or the Southern Middle East? You are making an assumption that can be disputed, though stating she is Black is without any Doubt.

AFSOCSARGE (talk) 02:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's the source used in the article:[7]. It describes the parents as "African-American." "African-American" is the standard term used to describe black citizens of the US. Yes, I agree the word is dumb. Yes, I get cranky when people use it to describe all blacks. I live on an island that is 85% black, and I've only seen two African-Americans in the last 4 years. That doesn't matter, because my opinion doesn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. Standard terminology is "African-American". The source uses "African-American". The convention on Wikipedia is to use "African-American".

You've gone over your 3RR limit by the way, but I can see that you sincerely believe yourself to be right, so I won't report it yet. Once again, that's something that doesn't matter. Whether you are right or whether you are wrong, you cannot keep reverting. If you do it again, you will be blocked.—Kww(talk) 02:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Kww's point about the sources is right - our job is to summarize and reflect sources, not make public policy or promote our own agendas. Tvoz/talk 07:38, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Beyonce

In the lead, it is stated she is best known mononymously as Beyonce. If so, why isn't the article called "Beyonce"? Feedback ^☎ 15:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Does it really matter? Most people know her by both. Besides, if it is such a big issue for you than move the page. Not that hard. Mr. C.C. (talk) 07:41, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Because Beyonce still use her surname professionally and with that, we should use her full name per WP:Naming Convention. --Efe (talk) 08:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

All of her albums singles have been released under the name Beyonce for the past like.. 7 years though :S 80.6.177.56 (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Influences and legacy

Typo: third line from the bottom of this topic: "Definitive" is the correct spelling. Thanks for fixing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.117.3 (talk) 06:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Carter ReDirect

Why does Beyonce Carter redirect here? WilliamF1two (talk) 19:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Carter is her married name. Wneedham02 (talk) 18:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Not quite. Carter is her husband's last name, so some may (incorrectly) think it's her current name. However, she kept her own name after the marriage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.123.226 (talk) 12:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Signature

Is there a real purpose to have Knowles' signature included in the infobox? It's not part of the infobox because it's not necessary, and I don't see why it was added to begin with. — Σxplicit 04:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Thanks to whoever uploaded that picture its an image of her new look and she looks amazing! Made the page that bit better, lol.Wneedham02 (talk) 18:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Can We Post A More Recent Picture Of Her? Geez It's 2009 Now. Not 07' ! Bday0495 (talk) 21:45, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

POV tag?

Why is there a POV tag on the Influences and legacy section? The advisory says, The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (April 2009), which is only last month; but I don't see any mention of it here whatsoever. Perhaps it should be deleted unless someone would like to discuss it, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.238.92 (talk) 23:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Mother's maiden name

If her mother's maiden name is Beyincé, and she was named in order to stop this name dying out, how did she end up being Beyoncé? Doesn't that rather defeat the purpose? Tsuguya (talk) 12:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Knowles is very much talented as in Merlin the Magician

Ms.Knowles' success comes from the most completely detailed well thought out marketing plan in the history of an entertainer. Her Bio on here is so very well controlled as only public relations experts know how to write. Mrs. Knowles' parents along with her outstanding work ethic is the key/combination, along with the growth of the internet, social marketing media and music on demand that has catapulted her to reach the goals set by her manager and his 5 year plan for his artist/daughter to be a "triple threat in music, movies and corporate endorsements" his words. That was the plan and they followed it precisely.

Other entertainers, who had nary this much "management" have reached the top solely on their talent, without a caravan of family,lawyers sending threatening letters,(to PETA for example) security, and various other hires for the sole purpose of elevating their status.

It is Ms.Knowles time to shine and it has been well crafted and well used. In a society such as the United States wherein the ill wind of racism still blows- it is necessary to down play her "Black" roots. It is necessary to use the word "pop singer" instead of R & B. She herself described how " airlines would not accommodate them in first class when she sang with Destiny' Child because they were tagged as R & B, a code for black. The airline,used "POP" for white groups. This I verify as a former ticket agent with the now defunct America West, when a supervisor informed me why a R&B group boarding could not be upgraded to first class. Information not for consumption by the public, but part of institutionalized racism in the United States.

Stretching her talents to sing in Spanish she collaborated on a Telenovela and "wrote" the words according to bios, she has collaborated with Colombian singer Shakira and after visiting a Spanish radio Station stated " I wish I was Spanish. ..(they show so much love.")She regularly appears in Latina Magazine, and studied Spanish in preparation for this new market. Ms.Knowles later stated she wanted to do a movie in "Bollywood" and is on that track at this time. She continues to be respected for her work ethic and good manners as taught by both of her parents.

Ms. Knowles is not the creator of "bootylicious" as a term entered in the dictionary "her words" because the word was used on a "Different World sit com" by Rapper Snoop Dogg when Ms.Knowles was about 5 years old. She subsequently took credit for it on the Wayne Grady show, then later said she hated that she created the word.

Ms. Knowles who also stated that even if you add one word to a song you not only get credited but paid has ridden the wave of acknowledgment from her collaboration on almost all tracks that she has performed. It is understandable that her father would go to great lengths to protect his daughter in that capacity more so than a non sanguine manager. Given the climate of racism in America, which is why her early performances were in Europe where she was able to garner recognition it is still a marvelous accomplishment, even with the fabulous wigs that she is noted for but assumed not to wear, that she has reached and continues to maintain her place in the Ivory Towers of the music industry, wherein she has stated that " the ... industry is filled with sharks" and I would agree.

She is under the very best tutelage that an entertainer with mediocre talent could possibly be.She is an outstanding example of the adage "work hard and you will achieve "and indeed she has.Nystar1881 (talk) 20:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I love you. this is Beyoncé and no one will ever say this. --93.146.254.173 (talk) 21:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Beyonce's sales as a solo artist and as a member of Destiny's Child

Since the 118 million figure presented within the article of Forbes seems quite inflated even if we combine all Knowles sales (that is her solo carrier sales as well as her involvement with Destiny's Child), we should state the figure of 75 million which is what The New York Times states in their article here. Besides, The New York Times happens to be the largest metropolitan newspaper in the entire USA which covers whole range of areas News, Business, Art, Sport, Science etc. whereas Forbes is a only a finance related news service.--Harout72 (talk) 15:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Using the Forbes source would suggest that Knowles sold 68 million as a solo artist from just 3 albums (23 million on average from each album). That is ridiculous. Orane (talk) 23:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's fair for us to be the judges of what is inflated or not, since the two numbers are so far apart. I think that 25 million is a reasonable amount for Beyonce to have sold (it's probably closer to 30 million though), but I wouldn't be surprised if Destiny's Child has sold well over 50 million. Other sources reported their numbers as 100 million, which seems plausible to me. And besides, Forbes is a very credible source, since they track those types of things anyway. 129.2.175.107 (talk) 04:55, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

What types of things are you referring to, they are not record industry related news service, their specialty lies within the financial sector. The 118 million is clearly an inflated figure for Beyonce, which also proves that Forbes does publish articles without thoroughly doing a research. As for the sources, who claim that Destiny's Child has sold 100 million, I have come across some of them and they are all completely unreliable. That said, we should not be filling Wikipedia with such spurious sales figures when it comes to music related articles which would eventually make the purpose of Wikipedia pointless.--Harout72 (talk) 17:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Destiny's Child released four studio albums and a Christmas album and a few remixes. They could not have sold 100 million. In fact, the best selling of their studio albums (TWOTW) sold about 11 million copies, and Survivor sold about 10 million, worldwide. Their debut album wasn't a strong seller, because people didn't know that much about them. It peaked at number 63 on Billboard and sold about 2 million worldwide. And their last album was a disappointment, and sold about 4 million copies worldwide. And none of their remixes and compilations are even certified in the US and can't have sold more than 1 million each worldwide. I doubt that they have even sold 30 million worldwide, but media hype has pushed it to as far as 100. Before they broke up, they were always billed at 35 million, which seemed believable, albiet a tad bit steep. Now, after they broke up, it miraculously jumped past 50. Orane (talk) 20:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you guys are forgetting that "career sales" don't just mean albums, because singles are included. I'm going to retract my earlier statement, because I remember reading that Destiny's Child had sold a combined 100 million records (including solo sales from each member). I wouldn't be surprised if their actual sales were 75 million and Beyonce's were 25 million, though that should have increased since that article was written, because of her new album. And I don't know about Forbes...I don't think that the major company responsible for tracking and reporting business transactions would do such careless research. I don't think it's particularly "clear" that 118 millioin is an inflated figure (nor does it prove anything about Forbes) because chances are that no one who edits Wikipedia keeps track of how many records she has sold. 129.2.175.107 (talk) 23:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

What makes you so sure that Wikipedia editors don't keep track of how many records she has sold? Beyonce's entire US sales: 27 million (that's albums, singles, videos combines). In Canada she has not even sold more than 250,000 units and in Australia her sales stands at only 700,000 units. Her album sales in the entire European continent is looking quite pitiful, just over 1 million on her Dangerously in Love [8] and just over 1 million on her B'Day [9]. In South America, it seems like she has only one Gold (50,000 units) from the Mexican market on her B'Day [10]. She doesn't have anything in Brazil [11] nor does she have anything in Argentina [12]. The rest of the markets in SA are quite tiny. That's her record-sales from North American, European, Australian markets not to mention her Mexico's figures (which is all she seems to have scored in South America). That covers at least 80-90 percent of her sales and she is still not passing the 30 million boarder as a solo artist. If you still think that the 75 million by the New York Times is questionable, I could also provide Destiny's Child's Certifications (which I have gone over and I doubt that their entire sales could reach 50 million worldwide). And by the way, in the article published by The York Times, it nowhere says that the 75 million is for albums only, it clearly says records, which means Singles, Albums, Videos etc..--Harout72 (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Well that was my point. If here entire US sales are 27 million then she is most definitely over the 30 million mark worldwide. She has sold over 2 million of her albums (strictly albums) in the UK and I found it pointless to calculate how many singles she has sold there. She has had four #1 singles, which would definitely give her the final 1 million to reach 30 million. My original belief was that the 75 million figure was incorrect. Granted, I could be completely wrong about everything, but I have a hunch that I'm not. I think that when all of their sales are combined their total should be in the nature of 100 million.129.2.175.107 (talk) 05:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You are not supporting your arguments with sources of any kind. And yes you are wrong about the 100 million figure. I did not say she has sold 2 million in the UK, I said 2 million in the entire Europe (see the sources above). At the moment, the UK's searchable database is under construction [13]. As soon as it's up and running I will provide Beyonce's sales for the UK market (which is most probably not going to surpass the 1.2 or 1.5 million figure, singles and albums combined). By the way, number one singles have enormous effect on sales only when singles remain within the Top-5 for many weeks. Furthermore, Beyonce with Destiny's Child has sold 24 million records in US market, that's less than what she has sold as a solo artist [14]. --Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure about the UK sales? Just by looking at the discography, you can see that from album sales she has gone 5x platinum at least (IASF is heading towards gaining another platinum certification) which is 1.5 million straight off the bat. Add on to that the singles sales from the certifications provided on their individual pages, Crazy In Love Deja Vu Irreplaceable Single Ladies Halo have all gone silver = 1 million sales (at least - I know Crazy In Love sold 300,000 so that's another 100,000) and If I Were a Boy went Gold which is 400,000 but has sold 535,000 copies. Sweet Dreams is currently in the top 10 and is reaching 100,000. Irreplaceable sold (at least) 100,000. Ring the Alarm was also successful over here. Baby Boy, Me, Myself & I and Naughty Girl were all successful too. Unfortunately due to the privacy policy of record sales, we don't know the exact sales, but based on certifications and chart positions I'd say (at least) album sales are 2 million, single sales 2.5 million = 4.5 million at least. Loveable Daveo (talk) 13:41, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Please, add into the intro the reference to the one of the best paid singers in the world.--Rubikonchik (talk) 11:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I strongly advise not to do it before the current heavy dispute on the talk page is settled. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 08:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The current stats show that Beyonce has sold 57 Millions records worldwide (inc. Albums, Singles, Ringtones) and Destiny's Child have sold around 50 Million (inc the same, doesnt give a full figure so it could mean 45 Mill ). Wneedham02 (talk) 00:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Name

This is Beyoncé Carter now, isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.138.253.81 (talk) 02:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You wish. Charmed36 (talk) 02:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

But she married to Sean Carter (Jay-Z). --89.138.253.81 (talk) 14:39, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't mean she has to change her name. Not a lot of people do these days. Loveable Daveo (talk) 13:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Associated acts???

Can someone make sense of the associated acts? I can understand: Destiny's Child & Jay-Z But why is Wyclef Jean & Lil Wayne there when she's only worked with one of them (with DC) years ago and because one of her songs is based on the others? And with Letoya why? She's an old member of DC!

I think we should have something like this: Destiny's Child, Jay-Z, Solange, Alicia Keys and possibly someone like Tine Turner a woman show she's been compared to and has said influenced her alot. Wneedham02 (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I can understand the inclusion of Destiny's Child and Jay-Z, but why Solange Knowles, Alicia Keys and Tina Turner? Per Template:Infobox Musical artist#Associated acts, the latter don't fit the criteria. — Σxplicit 04:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

They make ALOT more sense than LeToya, Lil Wayne & Wyclef Jean! Tina Turner - Someone who she's said has inspired her over the years and someone who she is very similar to in terms of performance style. Alicia Keys - They are both big R&B artists both are the biggest of that genre in the world, Both sold millions of records and both walked away with 5 Grammys in one night, a similar act. Solange Knowles - Simply because she is Beyonce's Sister has worked/written many tracks for Beyonce over the years and quite obviously Beyonce has inspired her... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wneedham02 (talk • contribs)

They might, but they don't meet the criteria listed on the template's guidelines.

This field is for professional relationships with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career.

This field can include, for example, any of the following:

• For individuals: groups of which he or she has been a member
• Other acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together
• Groups which have spun off from this group
• A group from which this group has spun off

I'm for keeping Destiny's Child and Jay-Z on there; the rest can be removed. — Σxplicit 19:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

How about Usher aswell then? Someone who she has performed with and collaborated with a few times over the years? 92.25.236.174 (talk) 17:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Singer-Songwriter

The wikipedia article on singer-songwriters says that singer-songwriters are artists who write lyrics, compose music and sing. Since Beyonce does not play an instrument she can't be classified as a composer and therefore as a songwriter, no? Many pop artists who do not play instruments are recognised as songwriters on wikipedia and I feel it should at least be changed to singer-lyricist.

• Beyonce can play the piano, but thats besides the point I understand you but not all songs are composed with handheld instruments nowadays. You can compose music on computers etc and most of Beyonce's songs are composed with computer sounds etc. We have no proof if she composes so we have to go with the facts and sources. Wneedham02 (talk) 23:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Composing music on computers doesn't mean being a songwriter. so even if she was able to do that (and i'm really afraid she can't) she wouldn't be a songwriter.

Beyonce writes lyrics and arranges her songs. She's a songwriter. --93.146.254.173 (talk) 21:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC) just believe it poor idiot.--93.146.253.12 (talk) 17:37, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

How do I upload pictures

All of these pictures like suck I have some really great ones that should go on! (August 23 2009 Irv)

For this article, you can only upload pictures that you own the copyright on. If you have pictures of Knowles that you took yourself, let me know, and I'll help you with the upload.—Kww(talk) 19:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't take them myself but either way what is the difference if they are of her? I don't get it doesn't SHE and no one else own the rights of all of HER pictures, because no one else is in them and they didn't ask her for direct permission? Why does it have to be so complicated????!!?! ( August 23 2009)

US Copyright law wasn't designed to be simple. In general, the photographer owns pictures that he takes, and the subject has some limited rights about the use of the images. Wikipedia doesn't have any arrangements with Knowles, and relies on photographers to release images. The pictures that have been released to Wikipedia can be found here.—Kww(talk) 21:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

but it says .org not .us and if the picture is put on a search engine for example then its been put up for all to use see —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.34.15 (talk) 13:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

BEYONCE REAL AGE There has been controversy about Beyonce real age for a long time ever since MediaTakeout.com said they found evidence of her being really 32. A lot of divas chanage their age in order to keep up with the younger audience, but there is still no evidence of her being that age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.163.221.63 (talk) 23:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

We MUST discuss about the real intentions of this page: is this a serious article or a fan club?

take a look at the "influences and legacy" section with a neutral point of view. it's really too much. i understand that some think that writing about Beyoncé here means celebrating the greatest artist ever, but this is too much. i mean we should always be neutral and correct while this article sounds like a fan page. "one of world's most known pop icons" is ridiculous even with those fake sources and the fact that her debut album is listed among the albums that shaped rock and roll doesn't mean that SHE shaped rock and roll. instead, it should be noticed that she's been HIGHLY criticed for the management of her father. when she was with the DC many noted that the only reason why the group had been made was launching Beyoncè's solo career. also, being rich doesn't mean being an important and influent person because many EVIL men are rich. it seems that some of the people who wrote the article tried to support what they think about Beyoncè with any kind of source, while they decided not to add any kind of criticism towards her. it can't be said that she's a legend because we don't know how long her career will last! she could become a legend but now she's a normal pop act who broke some chart records, like Rihanna or The Black Eyed Peas. she should be treated for what she is, not for what some teens think about her. every serious wikipedian should believe in what i said. P.S. sorry for the english:-) --Anthony Wilde (talk) 21:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

MTV and YouTube

Unfortunately, MTV owns the copyright to Beyonce/Taylor Swift moment at the VMAs. It would show especially poor judgment to post the copyright material considering that MTV's parent company Viacom is currently suing YouTube for copyright infringement. See Viacom#Copyright_complaints_against_YouTube. AniMate^draw 21:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I informed the recent editor who used YouTube as a source in this article about how its use is typically not allowed here at Wikipedia. As I partly stated on this user's talk page, YouTube is typically considered unreliable by Wikipedia. Here is a discussion about using YouTube on Wikipedia: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 36#Youtube as a source. There have been plenty of debates/discussions about its use here at Wikipedia. It is sometimes permitted, but is more often prohibited.

And, AniMate, thanks for providing that information. YouTube is always getting sued by someone, LOL. Flyer22 (talk) 22:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

True about the lawsuits. The recent dismissal of a suit brought by Universal against Veoh doesn't bode well for Viacom. Still, just because those websites do not respect copyright, doesn't mean that Wikipedia should not. AniMate^draw 23:16, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I have to say that the matter you linked to above explains why the day of the Kanye West outburst...I saw the clips of it being taken down left and right with notes that Viacom owned them. Currently, I am sure that it is still difficult to find a clip of the incident on YouTube. Though it does seem they are more focused on removing clips of that than of any other clip from that night. Flyer22 (talk) 07:30, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

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