Talk:Bella Dayne

Repeated content removal and falsifications at article "Bella Dayne"

I want to state some facts, since content of this page is constantly removed or changed (like the year of birth from 1988 to 1991):

• The birth name of Bella Dayne is Isabelle Knispel. There is no reason to remove this info, because she has received wide media coverage under her real name in 2006/2007, while she was the Miss Germany titleholder.

• The year of birth is 1988, because she was 18 when she became Miss Germany on February 4, 2006.

• The birth date is listed as "1988-01-08" in the US National Library of Congress.

• A German wiki page about Isabelle Knispel being Miss Germany 2006 existed for 13 years, it was recently merged with Bella Dayne because it is obviously the same living person.

References

Iseptuelenta (talk) 09:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

• @Iseptuelenta:, my role as an admin with regard to the removal of WP:BLP violations and the handling of the edit war is done for the time being. What remains is a content dispute that should be handled via dispute resolution. My two suggestions would be to either start a WP:RfC regarding the inclusion of the purported former name and birthdate and/or to post to the biographies of living persons noticeboard to get more input. I have to say that, from a pure policy standpoint, many of the references you provide do not meet reliable sourcing criteria for biographies. The first two are links to Getty Images, which do not meet WP:RS, nor does the German Wikipedia article. While there are reliable sources included above, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see where any of the published news articles explicitly state that Isabelle Knispel is the same individual as Bella Dayne. That is what is required for the connection to be made in this article, otherwise it's based on original research. Note that as this is disputed content in a BLP, the burden is on the individual wishing to include the material to obtain consensus to do so, so please don't restore it until such a consensus is reached. -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 17:16, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
• @Ponyo: I am a newly (registered) wiki user, so I'm sorry if I don't know that much about all the policies here (but I'm learning). I also don't know this person and have no issues with her. I did notice though, that obviously someone is constantly trying to make her appear younger and more relevant than she is. The reason why there is no news article about her that definetely says "Isabelle Knispel is now Bella Dayne" is, because she is completely unknown as an actress in Germany. She was only known under her real name as Miss Germany 2006, which is fairly easy to reasearch for a German native speaker. This issue has also been brought up several times on her German wiki page, which finally resulted in her German page being merged with the id of this page. Please note that I did not receive this information from her IMdB page (as you suggested yesterday), but I was the one who posted it there. Iseptuelenta (talk) 18:03, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

@Iseptuelenta: I provided clear instructions not to restore the material without achieving consensus at the relevant noticeboard or through a formal Request for Comment. Again, whatever is happening at the German Wikipedia has no relevance here as their policies and guidelines defer from ours. If there are no high quality reliable sources explicitly confirming that the two individuals are the same, the content cannot be added.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 18:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

@Ponyo: I posted the edit including references before I read your answer here because I thought the references were valid. There are public sources in the US (like fastpeoplesearch.com), which clearly say it's the same person, because she had a residence there and is on public record, but those sites can not be accessed from within the EU (without a proxy). I contacted some German news outlets about this matter now, to let them do the research. What else would be a reliable source? Iseptuelenta (talk) 18:57, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

fastpeoplesearch and many other databases and directories do not meet WP:RS for disputed biographical data as many contain user-generated content and it is unclear where they pull their information from. For help in identifying reliable sources, see WP:INDEPENDENT. -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 19:04, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Didn't see that there was already a discussion/dispute. So let me comment on that. If the (exact) date of birth is really just due to the person's entry in the library of congress, then that would not be a reliable source. Placing the year of birth around 1988 however, seems correct, as there are several (reliable) newspaper articles that carry her age. One is given above, another is currently cited in the article and additional ones are available at the de,wp entry and can be googled as well. Same goes for the identification of Bella Dayne with Isabelle Knispel, which is also clear from reliable sources, so I see no reason to suppress that.--Kmhkmh (talk) 06:04, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

The exact date of birth was retrieved from her personal (now defunct) german website as January 8 1988. This date was added to her German wiki page on October 4 2007. It was listed there for 13 years. Iseptuelenta (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@Iseptuelenta:If the date is published on her current website or was on her old website is archived somewhere then that might be sufficient as a source. If you still have the url, we could give archive.org a try.--Kmhkmh (talk) 00:45, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Further references showing her year of birth as 1987 or 1988

• Isabelle Knispel was 16 when she finished third-place at the "Miss Ostdeutschland 2004" contest on January 25 2004.

• Described repeatedly as 18 year old in 2006, while she was Miss Germany 2006.

Iseptuelenta (talk)

References