Talk:Alan Freed

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. --KenWalker | Talk 08:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

"Rock and Roll" and "Moondog"

Who did coin the phrase "Rock and Roll"? PMelvilleAustin 11:37 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)

I've heard that there is a connection between Freed's "Moondog Coronation Ball" and the musician Moondog. Does anyone know more about this? McGravin 00:00 Mar 3, 2004

Yes this correct. Freed used the name Moondog after he used a piece of music called Moondog Symphony by the street musician Moondog as his repeated opening music for his radio show. Moondog subsequently sued Freed on grounds that he was stealing his name. Since Freed was no longer allowed to use the term Moondog he needed a new catch phrase. After a night of heavy drinking he and his friends came up with the name "The Rock and Roll Party" since he was already using the phrase "Rock and Roll Session" to describe the music he was playing on his radio show.

It should also be noted that it was in fact Freed to coin the phrase "Rock and Roll" to describe a form of music. It is true that the phrase appeared in many songs before Freed but this did not describe a type of music. Freed is also credited with popularizing the phrase through his show "The Rock and Roll Party". --Manik52 08:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

This is factually wrong. The phrase "Rock and Roll" per se referring to loud, beat-driven music, dates at least as far back as the 1940's. Cf. Billboard magazine (I don't have specific citations in front of me). Etomology (talk) 19:20, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Billboard magazine, June 22, 1946 pg. 33

https://books.google.com/books?id=9hkEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT32&dq="Rock and roll music"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSlfexwc7uAhWmVzABHYeyDfwQ6AEwA3oECAcQAg#v=onepage&q="Rock and roll music"&f=false Etomology (talk) 20:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Good point and a useful source; OK, have revised the content, mentioning this 1946 use of rock and roll. Note: Alan Freed did not coin the phrase rock and roll; however, by way of his radio show, he popularized it and redefined it. Once slang for sex, it came to mean a new form of music. This music had been around for several years, but… https://www.britannica.com/biography/Alan-Freed Peter K Burian (talk) 22:54, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Very POV

This needs lots of work as it is very pro-Freed POV and not at all objective (even though I very much agree with a majority of the points made). I'm not going to "tag" it yet, but it certainly needs lots more work to come up to Wikipedia standards — as currently written it is just a defense of Freed and not an encyclopedia article. Rlquall 00:20, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I tend to agree.

I've been with R&R at least since Alan came up to the desert, and before; and I don't think the whole story is told here.

What about the bit with Morris Levy, the Music Mafia dude? That's where he really got ripped off.

They told me that they only made $10.00 out of all that; even the Jews themselves spoke out against Morris Levy, he was a real schmuck.

And I don't think Clark faired that well either, as I remember. He really got stuck when they literally forbade him to own his own stuff; he got around it, though, with some kind of by-proxy ownership thing or something.

And then there was Peter Tripp. They really socked it to him, but like Freed and Clark, he moved out to California where "miraculously" Rock & Roll was reborn.

As for as the name "Moondog"; he was sued back in 1953 for stealing that name from some blind dude: Louis "Moondog" Hardin who was a street poet who had been going by that name for at least 10 years. Alan apologized and changed the name to "rock & roll", but Louis has never been properly credited for his accomplishments, including being the true father of "Moondog Music" as Alan had at first called it.

WB2 06:18, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Was Alan Freed an anarchist? In what sense? Positive or pejorative? I've never heard anything about Alan that suggested to me that he was an anarchist. HUAC types might feel that way about it. But if Alan had any politics (other than play what the kids want to hear and make a buck at it), that's certainly been kept on the down-low. Motives were a lot simpler back in those days. Well, ok -- simpler. -- Anonymous user

I deleted him from category "anarchists"... better to keep that for self-described ones 02:55, 8 February 2006 (Moscow time)

It should be tagged. It's not a bad article, but it's packed with evaluative comments unsupported by references - "great," "legendary," even "smarmy."KD Tries Again (talk) 03:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)KD Tries Again

There are clips on youtube labeled Alan Freed Show WNEW-TV, New York which would be Channel 5 in New York at that time and aired around 3:00 or 4:00 in the after noon so kids home from school would see the show. Thats the show I recall seeing. In sponsoring Coke a Cola Allen would ask a dancer Candy to take a sip. You saw her pony tail and say something good about the soda and walk off. I met Candy years later in my High School cafeteria. Good work Allen love Ya. Teslafieldmachine (talk) 18:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Current location of interment

Needs to be updated with the current location of the interment of his ashes. See RRHoF press release dated 2002-03-22. Additional links to press articles about the move of the ashes can be found toward the bottom of this web page.

song-writer under...

the Anthony September pseudonym. Stephan KOENIG.

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for disambiguation note

A disambiguation page should be considered for the topic of "Alan Freed" because there is another, more recent, yet unrelated, Alan Freed in national broadcasting.

See: Beat Radio and XM BPM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.201.241 (talk) 01:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I am probably the Alan Freed whom 69.235.201.241 referenced almost five years ago. I see there hasn't been any response to that entry. Can the suggestion be discussed and considered by Wikipedians watching this article?

Like the Alan Freed whom the article is about, I also work in radio/media. Having the same name and occupation causes issues with identity and search engine results. And this can cause confusion on Wikipedia. I am not related in any way to the earlier Alan Freed.

There is no Wikipedia article about me but there are articles about Beat Radio and SiriusXM's BPM in which I am cited. Certainly, I'm not as well-known as the "other" AF; it is not uncommon, however, because of the same name and occupation, that I am confused with him or his son (Alan Freed, Jr.), and, regardless of any confusion, search engines make me practically unfindable because results for the 1950s Alan Freed are more numerous. Further, a third Alan Freed was known for his years in Pittsburgh radio.

A disambiguation page should resolve any confusion. As I don't have a Wikipedia account, I will monitor this talk page for activity.

Thanks for any consideration.

Alan Freed, alive and well

Los Angeles

107.207.188.94 (talk) 02:16, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

If you are, in fact, Alan Freed, your notability needs to be established according WP:BIO with reliable sources (see WP:RS). If the article is created, I suggest that you avoid editing it yourself (see WP:COI). Sundayclose (talk) 03:05, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Sundayclose, thanks for your response. The suggestion and request are for a disambiguation page.

Alan Freed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6044:4E00:303F:2712:CEF1:D2C8 (talk) 02:44, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't change anything. Your notability still needs to be well sourced. Everyone doesn't get his name on a disambiguation page simply because he requests. Sundayclose (talk) 02:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Sundayclose, that simply requesting doesn't get is a given. I have presented my case and I think it's a reasonable consideration given the facts. That another Wiki user took the initiative to suggest it five years ago says that I'm not the only person who has had the thought. Thanks for your attention.

Alan

2605:E000:6044:4E00:D57A:7CB4:7E78:7CF2 (talk) 05:32, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't mean to be harsh, but you keep saying the same thing over and over without providing what is needed. You have only made a request. You have not provided any reliable sources that the Alan Freed to whom you refer is notable according to WP:BIO. There may be a dozen Alan Freeds in the world, but all of them don't belong on a disambiguation page. And it doesn't matter that another person suggested it, or if a dozen people suggest it. Wikipedia operates according to verifiability, not what a couple of people think. You can keep requesting from now until the cows come home, but it won't happen until we see those sources. You may very well be notable enough to be included on a disambiguation page, but your case so far is completely unimpressive. Please click the links I have provided here and above and read them. If you're especially lucky, someone may come along who has nothing better to do than to find the sources if they exist, but since this is not a high traffic article that is very doubtful. There are many more important things to do on Wikipedia. Otherwise, you are wasting our time and your time. And, no offense, but your refusal to get the point is not something I intend to waste any more time on, so this is my last comment here until sources are provided. Best wishes. Sundayclose (talk) 14:34, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

There are a some mentions of the Alan Freed of XM BPM at our article on Beat Radio (and also at BPM (Sirius XM)). A simple solution might be a hatnote in this article, along the lines of: For the radio program director, see Beat Radio. I'm not saying that's necessary, just that it may avoid any (largely theoretical, I think) confusion and resolve the issue. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:47, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment, Ghmyrtle. Unfortunately, the comments about Freed in both of those articles are entirely unsourced, so it again fails verification. If someone can find appropriate sources for those articles, your suggestion might have some merit. I personally don't consider every reference to a radio personality in an article worthy of mention on a disambiguation page. There are probably several thousands of such people mentioned throughout Wikipedia. But I won't split hairs. We do, however, need sourcing for this Alan Freed somewhere on Wikipedia. Sundayclose (talk) 15:27, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Sources do exist that could be used to expand improve the Beat Radio article - [1], [2], [3], [4] - but they're not that strong. Until someone does that, I tend to agree there's no need for anything to change here. "Someone... who has nothing better to do than to find the sources if they exist" = Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Sundayclose, I am not a Wikipedian like you and Ghmyrtle. The reason for the suggestion was supported in detail in my initial comment, and generally in the previous comment. I believe it to be a reasonable consideration for the specific reasons outlined (I'd like to believe you understand the basis for the suggestion, but your remark, "I personally don't consider every reference to a radio personality in an article worthy of mention on a disambiguation page," suggests otherwise). I do appreciate your quick responses, but not the tone, as it has become combative and belittling. Your assertion of WP:IDHT here is inappropriate as I have not been "saying the same thing over and over"; my comments were of a clarifying nature, discussion, a process which I understand the Wikipedia community encourages. I can only hope for other, more helpful and respectful Wikipedians to weigh in. Thank you for your extremely valuable time. I apologize/not apologize for wasting it.

P.S. In addition to the sources cited by Ghmyrtle, there is a collection of press coverage about Beat Radio and me at beatworld.com/press, and a web search for "Alan Freed XM" delivers results for my affiliation with the satellite service (as well as results for the same-named person from the '50s...).

Alan 2605:E000:6044:4E00:D57A:7CB4:7E78:7CF2 (talk) 21:48, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

My apologies if I came across with a tone that you don't appreciate. That said, however, when someone is asked repeatedly to provide information and fails to do so (my assumption is because that person wishes for someone else to do it for them), and especially when that person is presented with several links that clearly and in detail explain how the process works here, but there is no response to the requests, I must assume either that person doesn't understand the request, or doesn't care to understand, or doesn't wish to go to the trouble to provide the information. I won't go so far as to characterize which of those describes you (if any do). I make no apologies for my comments about radio personalities in regard to appropriateness for a disambiguation page; that is not a tone; it is an opinion. Now, I hope my involvement here is resolved, and I'll leave it to other editors to decide how to proceed. Thanks to all. Sundayclose (talk) 22:32, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Ghmyrtle's suggestion of a hatnote sounds like a good idea. A minimal approach that gets the job done. That is actually what I had in mind. (I have purposefully avoided getting too hands-on here, being cognizant of the sensitivity among Wiki editors regarding WP:NPOV and to those having a close connection to articles. While the latter concern doesn't exactly apply in this instance, I have taken a reserved approach in deference to the former and because I am not an experienced Wiki editor. I am, however, happy to contribute.)

Alan 2605:E000:6044:4E00:B5C2:C94E:74EA:5852 (talk) 01:46, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I've added a brief hatnote - does that do the job? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:22, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

With respect Ghmyrtle, I reverted. All references to Freed in that article are unsourced. By WP:V standards, its veracity is unknown. I tagged that article. Sundayclose (talk) 14:51, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

"I'll leave it to other editors to decide how to proceed. Thanks to all."' Hmm.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:52, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I was referring to the process of locating and citing sources, not to violation of Wikipedia's core principle of verifiability. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 15:08, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

But that's surely a separate issue. We still link to other articles, even if those articles are not very good. If the Beat Radio article needs to be improved, by adding reliable sources, that should obviously be done. Until that time, it remains the best (if not only) source on Wikipedia for information (unsourced information - but still information) on "the other" Alan Freed. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:38, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Information about the "other" Alan Freed is subject to deletion in other articles if it does not get sourced properly, especially now that the articles are tagged. By Wikipedia standards any other Alan Freed has not been verified as notable. In the mean time, there is nothing urgent about the hatnote. If Freed gets sourced properly, add the note again. If my name was Alan Freed and I added myself randomly to an article without a source, that doesn't mean my name should be in a hatnote here. Sundayclose (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Ghmyrtle, thanks for your help. I would only suggest that a hatnote refer to me as "satellite radio personality/programmer" as my activity was not limited to programming and I am known as much or more for being an on-air host as programming; the article about XM BPM, as mentioned before, details my involvement there. And plenty of verifable data about my pre-XM work is available online (and off): beatworld.com/press makes it easy for anyone so inclined to locate plenty of third-party press reports in one place. (And if someone is suggesting that I have added my name randomly to Wiki articles (and without a source...), they would be incorrect. A more thin-skinned person may consider that a personal attack.) Alan 2605:E000:6044:4E00:61D4:FEBF:65B0:8F6D (talk) 01:46, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

If the hatnote is ever restored, the descriptor should conform to the description of Freed in the sources cited; and since there are currently no sources, that is a moot point. And if someone will give me a direct quotation of my comments in which I said that Alan Freed added his name to a Wikipedia article, I'll ask for a block of myself. Sundayclose (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

WJW as opposed to WINS

I find the article a bit confusing. I am sure the Moondog name can from the NY musician but while Freed was on WJW his theme song was "Blues for the Red Boy" by Todd Rhodes (King Records), not the Moondog Symphony. The law suit came after he moved to New York which is not clear at all from the text.

I listened to the WJW show nightly after he got a free plug from another DJ in Cleveland, Bill Randall. Not sure how to go about verifying the theme song issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Russbo (talk • contribs) 21:35, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Heritage?

The article now says "Freed was born to a latin (sic) father...and Welsh-American mother...." I had always been under the impression that he was of Jewish extraction, but even if he wasn't, "Latin" is too broad a descriptor. It needs to be changed. Dozzzzzzzzzing off (talk) 03:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Alan Freed was not half Latin. He self-identified as a Jew. His father was Jewish American (I think originally from Germany before WWII. His mother was Welsh-American. I knew the family personally in Ohio.NDeWolfe (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

A quick Google Books search should convince anyone that Freed was half-Jewish through his Russian immigrant father (his mother was Welsh). I cannot find any evidence of Latin descent. Levdr1lp / talk 19:38, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Dozzzzzzzzzing off (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Brooklyn Paramount

Pleeze reformat this section into a table by years. As currently formatted, information is almost impossible to find. Also, what happened with the 1959 Christmas Jubilee? There's only a title. 108.18.136.147 (talk) 14:25, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

bad grammar

"who" is not the appropriate relative pronoun for a store. If you mean Mintz, put this phrase after his name. If you mean the store, talk to a teacher of the English language and find out what relative pronoun to use. 108.18.136.147 (talk) 14:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 September 2015

Change "Laraine Newman played the role of Carole King." to "Laraine Newman played the role of Teenage Louise, a character modeled loosely on Carole King." Zoetmb (talk) 19:38, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Correct - done. Thank you. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

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