Talk:Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi

PLO/PLF

At the end of the third paragraph, there's a reference to the "Palestinian Liberation Front (PLO)" -- is that the Palestine Liberation Front, or is it a different group? –Hajor

The source of this information is probably http://www.jmcc.org/media/report/98/Jan/3b.htm - which says PLO, not PLF. I fixed the article accordingly. -- uriber 17:05, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the clarification! –Hajor

---

There's a picture of the man on the Arabic version of the biography. Is there any way to pop it onto the English page without re-uploading it? Rjyanco 22:03, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Neutrality is important

For those who are responsible for this website,

1. There was never an internal coup within Hamas, led by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, since he was the founder. If you say so, bring a reference, don't forget that your site is read by a lot of people.

2. Jihad is not a holy war, but a just war, for more information please read "Is Jihad a Just War? War, Peace and Human Rights Under Islamic and Public International Law", from Edwin Mellen Press.

3. It is not true that Abdel-Aziz Al-Rantissi offered no compromise with the Israeli Occupation, since in your same article you say he offered a 10-year truce.

4. In your article, you say that Yubnah was emptied...but how? Did the people disappear? or where they massacred? For more information, please visit www.deiryassin.org

5. You say that Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi was involved in terrorist activities...but what is terrorism? There is no definition whatsoever... This word is used against those who fight the United States and it's allies, as it was used by the Nazis 60 years ago. The United Nations still does not have a proper definition on it.

6. You talk about Palestinian militant operations as terrorism, but you don't even mention a bit of what is happening in Palestinian territories. What about the Jenin massacre? What about the Rafah massacre?

7. Unfortunately, your article tends to be too bias for the Israeli site.

Finally, if you want a decent picture of the late Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi, visit http://www.socialnerve.org/sections/palestine/2004/04/17/photos/rantissi.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.252.6 (talk • contribs)

Well, all of our articles try to follow a neutral point of view. If you feel it doesn't, then edit the page--we encourage users to be bold in editing. Of course, you have to work with other users and form consensus, even those whom you might not agree with, and follow the principles of Wikiquette. And since this is a controversial subject, be prepared to draw some attention, and be willing to compromise. Also, the photos on that page are copyrighted, so we can't use them--see Wikipedia:Copyrights. Thanks for the offer, though. Yours, Meelar 15:02, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

it looks like the criticism of the above person is much like the problem in the middle east, this is however, the talk page about Mr. Rantissi and not about Jenin or Rafah, these incidents and places may actually already have wikipedia articles and if they don't, or for that matter on any subject, please do help create them. Be bold, indeed but if you are bold and biased be open to discussion because that is often the result of boldness and bias. Nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact the ancient greeks thought that such discussion was the way to find the truth..

just my 2 cts...

Hurkummer

Thank you

I would like to thank you for your response and I am willing to discuss the content of this article with whom it concerns. Could yoy please tell me how I can make the consensus about the content.

Thank you

Removed anti-islamist quote, since there was no web reference

I'm leaving it here, in hopes that the person who added it or anyone else can verify it for us: "We will kill Jews everywhere. There will be no security for any Jews, those who came from America, Russia or anywhere." (Chicago Tribune July 23, 2002.) Everyking 16:55, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I am not putting it back but I have found a link to something which goes a way to corroborate the statement and npov it away from your monikker of "anti-islamist".. check it out..

The original article is available to subscribers of the said newspaper for a fee but excerpts are included below http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=649&x_context=7

Hurkummer

LTR/RTL problem

There's a problem with the Arabic version of his name - the '23' and the Arabic name have been reversed in place, at least on my browser, because the part as a whole rather than just the Arabic letters is rendered right-to-left. Does anyone know what can be done about that? - Andre Engels 19:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Sourcing

This article is in serious need of sourcing. The lack of sourcing in this article is a big problem. I will work on sourcing it, but help would be apreciated.--SJP 21:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

"Kill the Jews everywhere" quote

First I have serious doubts about the context of this quote; the source is a deadlink and not even to the original, and given the phrasing I'm not sure that "everywhere" actually means "everywhere on Earth;" Jews who "come from" America and Russia sounds like a reference to immigrants to Israel or even Israeli settlers (who mostly come from America and Russia.) Palestinians often talk of "the Jews" in the same way that Israelis talk of "the Arabs," to refer each other. Can somebody find the original and verify it?

Secondly I think it's pretty inappropriate to use this quote as some kind of summation of Rantissi's overall views. We could just as justifiably use, "I believe that [political change in Israel] would end the conflict, with a cease-fire. What is needed is a withdrawal from all of Gaza and the West Bank, a chance to establish an independent state. We will agree to a truce. [...] We cannot tell our people to continue in an unequal conflict. But neither can anyone tell them to give in, to surrender in the face of Israel's aggression." [1] Or maybe we should not use this article for a collection of cherry-picked quotes at all, and we should just follow the lead of third-party secondary sources for what we say about him. <eleland/talkedits> 11:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I've sourced it to a US Congress document. The original article is Israeli strike kills at least 12 in Gaza ; Targeted Hamas chief among dead by Uli Schmetzer. I can try to check my library for microfilm, or worse comes to worse, it's US$3.95 to but the article from the Tribune. -- Avi (talk) 05:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I found it via Factiva; it is that article. I'll update the source. -- Avi (talk) 05:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

"We will kill Jews everywhere".

I'd like to note that, after checking the original Arabic version in context, it looked like he meant Israeli Jews. I'll change it now to make that clear. Any disagreements? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.204.189 (talk) 21:39, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, that is a quote from the Chicago Times, and cannot be adulterated. Secondly, "looks like he meant" == WP:OR. If he did not say "Israeli Jews" that is solely your interpretation and not allowed on wikipedia per WP:NOR. I have restored the quotation to the unadulterated form. -- Avi (talk) 21:45, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but thats misleading. We should make it clear what was really meant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.204.189 (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

That is your interpretation, and is thus a WP:No original research violation. Bringing the unadulterated quotation is the correct method. Please remember that hagiographic edits are just as severe a violation of WP:NPOV as denigratory ones. -- Avi (talk) 19:56, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

But the statement is misleading. For one, it looks like he advocates the killing of all jews, but to quote him: "{We} are prepared to stop terrorism against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians." [2]

If that quote is put up there, then this quote must be added too. It looks like a very biased view, currently. If theres no objections by tomorrow, I'll add that quote too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.204.189 (talk) 22:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC) Actually, can someone else add the quote, I'm having difficult with editing. Either that or move the Kill jews quote down the page, as it doas not summarise his life or personality.

I've now changed it to be less POV. I've now removed that quote from the top and put it into "Quotations", along with the other quote I provided above. ''"{We} are prepared to stop terrorism against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians."[3]

Rantissi was quoted by the Chicago Tribune (in the context of taking about Israeli Jews) as saying, "We will kill Jews everywhere. There will be no security for any Jews, those who came from America, Russia or anywhere." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.204.189 (talk) 23:30, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

References

Sentence removed

"Along with these deaths a mother and her five year old daughter were killed."

It seems odd to say "3 people were killed, and four bystanders were wounded. Oh and 2 bystanders were killed." Therefore I'm guessing this is a piecemeal addition, and was not supported in the now dead-link. New refs for the casualties should be found, and if there is confusion or disagreement, that should be documented too. Rich Farmbrough, 10:58, 7 October 2010 (UTC).

Quotations section

I have removed the entire section on quotations. Wikipedia is not a directory and this section should go into Wikiquote. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and quotes should not just be dumped into the article at the bottom section. This is because quotes taken out of context can have vastly different meanings. Furthermore, some quotes do not have references at all. 220.255.2.20 (talk) 17:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Neutral point of view

The first paragraph reads: "Abdel Aziz Ali Abdul Majid al-Rantisi (23 October 1947 – 17 April 2004), nicknamed the "Lion of Palestine,"[1][2] was a terrorist and the co-founder of the Palestinian movement Hamas along with Sheikh Ahmed Yassin."

The definition of terrorism is vague, i am not arguing if he was or not but to correctly phrase the wording, to: "nicknamed the "Lion of Palestine,"[1][2] was the co-founder of the Palestinian resistance movement Hamas along with Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, he was predominately accused of supporting and actively supporting terrorism".

The above remains neutral and satisfies certain points of views without angering others - neutrality.. Of course if you can think of better phrasing then cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.78.191.90 (talk) 12:38, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

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Infobox

Al-Rantisi and wife Jamila al-Shanti had 6 children. This should be included in both of their infoboxes (see [4]). 96.246.238.31 (talk) 04:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Abdel_Aziz_al-Rantissi.jpg HoopaRoopa (talk) 22:30, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit request

Please add Category:Extrajudicial killings Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 18:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Restoration of information

@Vice regent: I've reverted your edit, which, inadvertently I'm sure, removed details of a Hamas attack on the Erez Crossing, but kept the information you added about his hospital proclamation. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 15:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Chicdat can you find a source for that and connect it to the assassination? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The other issue is that is this one attack central to his personality? If not, I'm not sure we should include it. We wouldn't include every killing of Palestinians ordered by Netanyahu to Benjamin Netanyahu article.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It is mentioned in the same ref as the assassination attempt, I think that's why it was included in the first place. Since it isn't even mentioned in Second Intifada, it probably isn't very important. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 19:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Chicdat Which reference? I didn't find it. Can you quote the text? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 22:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Vice regent: This one: