Talk:2019 Barcelona City Council election

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Valls list

@Impru20: You removed Barcelona Capital Europea from the infobox. I don't know precisely the exact basis (maybe the polls stick to Cs despite Valls not being a member? or it being a fresh list without representation?). 2 things have happened afterwards: He has presented the electoral list, and he has registered as president of a newly created political party on 28 March 2019 with the headquarters in his office at Passeig de Gràcia: BARCELONA PEL CANVI/ (BCN CANVI). [1] I mean, I think we can presume he is not going to run with Ciudadanos in a proper sense (I think he has actually stated multiple times he has his own platform and denied running in behalf of Cs, despited including members of Cs).--Asqueladd (talk) 17:53, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I know, but precisely because of the uncertainty behind the platform's actual configuration, with several names and proposals having transpired throughout the last months ("Barcelona Capital Europea", "Valls 2019", "Barcelona pel Canvi" or "Canvia.Barcelona"), I'd actually wait until the candidacy is formally registered to translate it into infoboxes and such, as there is much still to know about it to properly handle it as of currently (note that the registered BARCELONA PEL CANVI party has www.barcelonapelcanvi.org as its website, which redirects to manuelvalls2019.barcelona, which in turn focuses on Valls as a candidate, rather than on the platform). As Cs is the party being shown in opinion polls as of now, and with most of the list's composition made of Cs members ([2]), it's safer to have Cs for now until the final candidacy is revealed, than having an incomplete (and possibly incorrect) name and colour scheme that would need to be re-changed in a few days time. Impru20^talk 18:04, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The platform is "Barcelona Capital Europea" (full name) / "Valls BCN 2019" (short name). I know the name at the ballot may change (and until tonight at 00:00AM possibly also the nature), but I think that until further notice the platform in which the candidates were presented yesterday (short name: Valls BCN 2019) is the way to go, instead of Cs. The fact that he has also already registered a distinct political party is the icing on the cake in order to support removing Cs, regardless of the final name.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:33, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is exactly what I said. We don't know the exact name (we have several possible names for the platform, a political party registered under a different name, we don't know whether it will be an independent platform or an electoral coalition, etc). It's not that the name at the ballot may change, but that we don't know what the name at the ballot will actually be, or in which format will it run: so far, the Spanish electoral law only allows for parties, federations of parties, coalitions and groupings of electors to run in elections, yet Valls is running a very presidential-like, French-inspired campaign. All of this you point out does actually seem to be the political (not necessarily the electoral) platform under which Valls will run, but in the end what matters in the infobox is the actual shape of the list, which as of currently is still mostly unknown. Impru20^talk 19:01, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Impru20: The name in the ballot paper will be Barcelona pel Canvi-Ciutadans ([3][4]). I still understand he is running with his own party because we should have already heard about the formation of the coalition otherwise, but that's my guess.--Asqueladd (talk) 17:18, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this is actually even messier than we thought. The list does bear the name of Cs, and Inés Arrimadas is running in the list as well (albeit in a symbolical position). I don't think we can confirm this is a separate party, and it's not a coalition either because it has not been registered as such. I would rather say it has finally taken the form of a Cs-based platform, with a different (but related) trademark and with much of Cs within it. Impru20^talk 17:27, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Impru20: Does the fact that the 3 Cs municipal councillors (later also Corbacho) apparently split from the BCN Canvi–Cs municipal group (rather than the Valls-y councillors) shed any new light in the matter of the nature of the list? That's it: maybe questioning the nature of BCN Canvi–Cs as Cs-based list, being a BCN Canvi-based list instead?. Regards--Asqueladd (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a post-election development which does not shed any light on pre-election developments. It was a Cs-based list ahead of the election, it then broke up thereafter over the issue of Colau's investiture (further, note that municipal groups are formed later on, so it was not that any councillor broke up from any group, as those were not officially formed yet). In the end, if you check sources, those do consider the election results in Barcelona as Cs results proper, only under a different label. Also noting that Corbacho was among the 3 councillors initially splitting from Cs, but then re-joined the party, so it's 2 BCN Canvi vs 4 Cs as of now. Impru20^talk 20:19, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Podemos

Why are Catalunya en Comú–Podem, En Comú Podem and Barcelona en Comú in the same column, but don't Catalunya Sí que es Pot?

They have the same Composition. In Sub-national opinion polling for the 2019 Spanish general election are even FR and CUP-CC compared due only Poble Lliure!

Braganza (talk) 18:57, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Barcelona en Comú. It is a main component of CeC-P and ECP, but it has nothing to do with CSQP, as it did not run within it. Impru20^talk 18:59, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and why can FR be compared to CUP? The only party that did not compete with CSQP is Procés Constituent otherwise they are absolutely identical! Braganza (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We have a column for BComú. BComú did not participate within CSQP, so it would be wrong to attribute that result to BComú.

It was you who compared FR to CUP, so answer that yourself. Impru20^talk 19:19, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So aren't you @User:Impru20 (see here) Braganza (talk) 19:25, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've not compared them in this article, which is what you suggested: that was you. On the issue of the other article, I did not wish to waste more space by creating an additional column in such an already oversized article. Nonetheless, Poble Lliure, and integral part of FR, is also within the CUP, so they do have something in common. This does not happen with BComú and CSQP.

You could have always complained back at the time if you did really thought that FR and CUP shouldn't have been included in the same column at the other article, rather than raising this here as a false dilemma. Impru20^talk 19:37, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I thought that was done deliberately, because there are overlaps, for the same reasons I am also in favor of BComú and CSQP being in the same column

After all, FR is a small coalition of 3 small parties where one is more or less a part of CUP and the other one is an alliance led by CUP, who in itself did not take part in FR.

It does not make any sense to say that part of a party has been insulted and that's why they are identical (FR and CUP-CC),
but to say in CSQP they are set up the same but are not officially part of each other and therefore have nothing to do with each other

Braganza (talk) 19:57, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you are proposing a false dilemma. CUP and FR have some element parties in common. BComú was not within CSQP. The set up of CSQP was not the same as that of CeC-Podem and ECP because the party having a separate column here was not part of it, as simply as that. Thus, it's not accurate to consider CSQP's result as if it was BComú's, because the latter was not a member party of that coalition. Impru20^talk 20:31, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So I summarize your point briefly:

FR may be compared to CUP-CC because PL and PIRATA.CAT belong to both alliances, although CUP decided against a candidacy^[1]
By contrast, BComú can not be compared to CSQP since BComú did not belong to CSQP, although Podemos, eQuo, EUiA and ICV belonged to both

Braganza (talk) 20:49, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, a false dilemma; please excuse me if I sound repetitive, but you seem to be deliberately ignoring a point I already pointed out clearly. There's not a column for Podemos, eQuo, EUiA and ICV. It is not a column for ECP or CeC-P, either: the column is for BComú, which is the party running in the Barcelona local election. BComú was a member of CeC-P and ECP, so their results may be comparable. BComú was not a member of CSQP. PL and Pirata.cat belong to both the CUP and FR. BComú did not belong to CSQP.

Seriously, this is not difficult to understand. Impru20^talk 20:58, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Polling firm/Commissioner	Fieldwork date	Sample size	Turnout											BC	Lead
Polling firm/Commissioner	Fieldwork date	Sample size	Turnout												Lead

Could we agree on something like that (it's just a suggestion)?

I understand your point entirely, but at 2017 Catalan regional election and Regional opinion polling for the 2015 Spanish general election, for example, CeC-P and ECP are compared with CSQP, and this is inconsistent because one can well ask why ECP is compared with BComú and ECP with CSQP but not BComú with CSQP

I repeat it again I fully understand your opinion Braganza (talk) 21:22, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you say you understand but you don't seem to do it. CeC-P and ECP may be compared to CSQP when the columns are for CeC-P and ECP, because they share member parties (in fact, CeC-P and ECP are essentially the same, and they are almost the same than CSQP with the change that this one doesn't include BComú). The column here is for BComú. BComú was not a member of CSQP, and as such did not run in the 2015 Catalan regional election. You can't show a number for BComú there because that's unaccurate. Seriously, it is as simple as that. And it's incredible we have already wasted over 7 kB worth of comments just for trying to explain you this. Impru20^talk 21:50, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I UNDERSTAND IT! I mean, from a reader's point of view, it can be confusing! But I do not understand why FR is compared with CUP-CC either says it goes after the composition or after the official election. CUP is at least officially not insulted but only smaller parts^[2] Braganza (talk) 06:18, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

[1] ttps://www.ccma.cat/324/front-republica-la-tercera-opcio-independentista-que-vol-fer-se-un-lloc-el-28a/noticia/2918615/

[2] ttps://www.elconfidencial.com/elecciones-generales/2019-04-04/front-republica-elecciones-erc-cataluna-28a_1921534/

[1]

[2]