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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 November 22

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November 22

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Template:Editnotices/Group/Wikipedia talk:Friendly

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Editor created a blank editnotice. CSD was declined, so here it is at TFD. There does not appear to be an applicable group editnotice to be suppressed (see the edit summary upon creation), but maybe I missed it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hiberno-English

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The article Hiberno-English clearly and competently explains that Irish English's writing standards, such as its spelling, align with British English. The rest of the article explains the differences in pronunciation (not relevant since Wikipedia is a written medium) and regionalisms (also not relevant because MOS:COMMONALITY says not to use regionalisms: Use a commonly understood word or phrase in preference to one that has a different meaning because of national differences).

I propose that these templates are redundant and that they should be redirected to {{Use British English}} and {{British English}}.

There is a detailed discussion about these and similar templates happening at Template talk:EngvarB. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect per nom, absent compelling evidence of relevant orthographic differences. Retro (talk | contribs) 00:35, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect or delete. Templates like these should be used to help editors and all these do is create confusion. Johnuniq (talk) 01:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Please also note that the previous TFD that resulted in a "keep" outcome had a completely different rationale. The "Keep some" !votes at that TFD are worth reading. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Spideog (talk) 11:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The templates provides a helpful guide to the variety of English that prevails in the article. I check English variant before editing. Spideog (talk) 11:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coinnigh é Tá siad úsáideach le haghaidh earraí Gaeilge. SerialNumber54129 11:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The above text in Irish is a Keep vote. Editor SerialNumber54129 is not doing himself or us any favours by hiding his comment in a lesser known language. Spideog (talk) 16:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You're obviously a musical chap... téigh ag feadaíl! :D SerialNumber54129 15:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. From a practical perspective, and as noted in the previous TfD discussion, there is some value in having separate {{Use Irish English}} and {{Use British English}} templates. Not least given the use of Irish language words in the former. (Like Taoiseach (over PM), Gardaí (not police), Oireachtas (not parliament), Gaeltacht, sliotar, etc.) Otherwise it seems to me that the nom hasn't considered the disruption likely to be caused by this proposed change. (Perhaps not on the same "nuclear" scale as merging {{Use Indian English}} and {{Use Pakistani English}} - but in the same ballpark. To see what I mean, try adding {{Use British English}} to the Sinn Féin or Provisional Irish Republican Army or articles - and see what noise is generated.) Otherwise, IMO, the proposed change seems like a solution looking for a problem... Guliolopez (talk) 13:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment/clarify. To clarify what I mean about {{Use Irish English}} and {{Use British English}} and the treatment of Irish loan words. In Margaret Thatcher (appropriately tagged with {{Use British English}}), the term Taoiseach is both linked AND explained ("Taoiseach (Irish prime minister)"). This is because this term is not routinely used (and therefore requires clarification) in "British English". While in Garret FitzGerald (tagged differently/appropriately) the term Taoiseach is simply linked. Without definition. Because, in "Irish English", it doesn't require clarification. Guliolopez (talk) 14:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Guliolopez. Spleodrach (talk) 13:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I'm failing to see what deleting this actually achieves. I support keeping all the main English-language tags (Australia, Canada, India, Ireland, South Africa etc) per WP:TIES. Completely endorse what Guliolopez has said about the use of Irish loanwords in Irish English. This has been discussed before as a defining feature of Irish English. AusLondonder (talk) 20:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Guliolopez' excellent summation. Hiberno-English or Irish-English may look the same as British English at a glance, but it is significantly different. As pointed out, there are many loanwords in common usage that are directly derived from the Irish language and native speakers, including those with no knowledge of Irish, will use them regularly. There are also grammatical differences between Hiberno-English and British English. And I'm not sure what confusing the matter by glomming the two distinct dialects together seeks to achieve. If anything, it smacks of cultural assimilation. Our native language was almost wiped out, so now it's time for our dialect to go the same way. No thanks - Alison talk 02:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC) (disclosure: I'm a native speaker)[reply]
  • Keep per Guliolopez. I don't know what benefit there is in merging. The example of whether to explain taoiseach is a good one. There are other stylistic differences in the use of the English language between the two countries, which mightn't arise that often in an encyclopedic context, but it's as well to note the language variant at the top. We're not discussing regionalisms here, but the mainstream language that would be used by the media or academically in Ireland. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 17:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I haven't seen an argument above in one of the keep votes that shows a difference in spelling between English words. The examples of Irish language words used in articles are unrelated to this TfD, and whether or not a word written in Irish should be explained is context-related and has nothing to do with a template at the top of a page (click on a random transclusion of Template:Lang for non-English languages and see some explaining a word, while others don't, and no "Use x language" template is used). I feel that the keep votes above are more pride-based and just dislike the fact that the word "British" will appear on the page. Gonnym (talk) 10:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel that the keep votes above are ... pride-based...
    Feelings unsupported by evidence are unpersuasive. Spideog (talk) 14:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel that the keep votes above are more pride-based and just dislike the fact that the word "British" will appear on the page. That's one of the most ridiculous fact-free takes I've seen in any discussion on Wikipedia. AusLondonder (talk) 14:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with you both. SerialNumber54129 15:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep per Guliolopez. Gonnym's assertion, without any substance other than vibes, that keep votes are based on pride is laughable. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 19:11, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Editnotices/Page/Berenstain Bears

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Editnotice blanked in early 2024 as no longer applicable. No longer used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Editnotices/Page/E-kid

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Editnotice blanked because it was no longer needed. See talk page for details. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Deprecated stub

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No transclusions. There is limited discussion linking to this template, most of which is from 2010, when it was created. I don't know if it was ever used, or just transcluded in one place until recently, when it showed up on the unused template reports.

It may be redundant to {{Deprecated template}}.

If it is used only sometimes, it should have {{transclusionless}} added to its documentation, with an explanation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's not entirely redundant to {{Deprecated template}}. It's always substituted rather than transcluded, and is only used rarely. Not sure how many stub templates it currently (or ever) been used on, but deprecated stub templates are usually cleared quickly and either deleted or redirected. Don't think losing it will cause much problem. Originally it was made because a few parent stub types were regularly sorted out (e.g., {{geo-stub}} to all its by-country children), and someone who didn't know how stubbinng worked would nominate the emptied template for deletion. I think there are other templates that will stop that happening though. Grutness...wha? 04:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:CURRENTCENTURY

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This could easily be manually updated by hand since centuries only change every 100 years, and I don't even think Wikipedia will last that long. If it somehow does the current century can easily be changed. TheWikipedetalk 16:57, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Billie the Vision & the Dancers

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Only one album, so useless for navigation. --woodensuperman 15:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Egyptian royal family

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Page contains less than five people, all of whom are closely related and would already be linked together, limiting its usefulness. 2601:249:9301:D570:9061:13F5:EDBD:C800 (talk) 23:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Convert to a bottom navigation template, which takes less visible space. Remove non-links. This has enough links for a viable navigation template. Gonnym (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:TAT (band)

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This is a template I authored many years ago which no longer satisfies the rule of five so I'm self nominating it for deletion. Muhandes (talk) 10:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Novembre

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This is a template I authored many years ago which no longer satisfies the rule of five so I'm self nominating it for deletion. Muhandes (talk) 09:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Kish Mauve

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This is a template I authored many years ago which no longer satisfies the rule of five so I'm self nominating it for deletion. Muhandes (talk) 09:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:An Angle

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This is a template I authored many years ago which no longer satisfies the rule of five so I'm self nominating it for deletion. Muhandes (talk) 08:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Pomigliano CF squad

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no "current squad" template needed; team is not active during the 2024-25 season Joeykai (talk) 05:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:At school occasional

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Propose merging Template:At school occasional with Template:At school.
These templates both reflect that an editor will be making fewer contributions due to their schooling, and {{at school occasional}} simply specifies that the editor will not entirely stop editing. I propose that {{at school occasional}} be converted into a parameter for {{at school}} (|occasional=yes) and merged therewith. JJPMaster (she/they) 01:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak support, they both convey the same theme that school affects presence on Wikipedia. No significant difference between them.
𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 18:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Both mean the same thing. Agree with reasoning provided by JJP. ( ͡° ( ͡° ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ͡°) ͡°) ͡°) 00:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support and suggestion. Both school templates are differentiated by the degree of availability at Wikipedia impacted from school attendance. Currently, the two templates are narrow in these degrees. The occasional template should become the regular school template and have a new one created, that a user is on a hiatus because of school. Carlinal (talk) 05:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The two templates are synonymous with one another. Rager7 (talk) 17:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support. I find Carlinal's argument to be compelling, as someone who is currently using the At School Occasional template. I think the occasional template being the regular and a hiatus template as an alternate option would probably be better. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 04:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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