Talk:Gender-critical feminism

An article with a similar scope?

21st century anti-trans movement in the United Kingdom appears to be attempting to cover the same ground as this article, presenting gender-critical feminism as an anti-trans movement. Sweet6970 (talk) 00:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

No, this article here is about TERFism in general, worldwide. Whereas that new article is about the rise of the anti-trans movement in the UK and is more similar to the article of 2020s anti-LGBTQ movement in the United States which documents the rise of the anti-LGBTQ movement in the US.

Of course there is some overlap, but also a clear distinction in the focus. Pinging @Snokalok as the author of the new article. Raladic (talk) 01:00, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! My goal isn’y to cover gender critical feminism specifically, it’s to cover anti-trans sentiments in the UK - GCF is just the most common strain of anti-trans beliefs in the UK. Likewise, unlike this article, the new one focuses specifically on the United Kingdom and not worldwide. As Raladic mentioned, my goal was to make a UK counterpart to the very well written 2020s anti-LGBTQ movement in the United States article Snokalok (talk) 01:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree with @Snokalok and @Raladic. This article is about GC feminism in general, that article is about the anti-trans movement in the UK, of which GC feminism is a large part but not the only part. I fail to see any reason why this should be concerning or presented as "rivalry" — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 11:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like a straightforward attack page or POV fork based on a lot of OR to me. Void if removed (talk) 12:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems well referenced to me. If you have specific concerns about POV or OR, perhaps you should enumerate them on the Talk: page once the article is more stable. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 21:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Without anything to support those claims, that just sounds like a rather rude WP:IDONTLIKEIT.

Your first 2 remarks may be subjective, but the accusation of OR seems completely unfounded. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 01:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it differs in two significant ways

1. It's in specific

2. It describes the entirety of the anti-trans movement and not simply the subset that consider themselves gender critical.

I think it's a useful article and see no reason to merge them. HenrikHolen (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Specific to the UK* HenrikHolen (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Euphemism?

Collapsing per WP:NOTAFORUM

This sounds more like a euphemism than a real thing. In the U.S. we just call them TERFs and of course really people we might call TERFs are usually only feminist as much as necessary to justify the transphobia. But the real reason it sounds like a euphemism is that the phrase is incoherent. Who came up with the idea of gender being non-grammatical and distinct from sex? Feminists, mostly. So the phrase is sort of illogical. I've yet to hear a feminist criticism of the idea of gender. It's just trans people these kinds of people don't like. If this phrase is a real thing, someone needs to explain where these people got the idea that they are arguing a feminist criticism of the idea of gender because that's not in any way clear... 96.231.188.182 (talk) 06:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC) "Gender critical feminists" is the term used by some people, especially here in the UK, and is reliably sourced as such from several references, as can be seen in the article. Discussing whether or not the term is a euphemism is not useful here on the Talk: page (per WP:NOTAFORUM). If you have specific references to point to including such a discussion in the article, then feel free to start that conversation, with those references. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 10:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)