Talk:Sitones

Adam of Bremen

Please mention that this is the first time when the women rulers are mentioned, and the second time is by Adam from Bremen some 1000 years later. It may very well be the same people.--130.237.165.114 08:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Adam of Bremen did not mention that Terra Feminarum was ruled by a woman. Tacitus clearly lets the reader understand that Sitones were men and women and that a woman ruled. Terra Feminarum had only women. --Drieakko 05:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Germanic people?

How do we know tha the sitones are Germanic people? Who claims this? Source?--130.237.165.114 08:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, Tacitus himself ranks them among Germanic tribes. Unfortunately we cannot know whether they actually spoke Germanic language or not, as they are not mentioned in any other source, and they cannot be associated with any known archaeological culture with any certainty. The connection between the Sitones and Adam´s Terra Feminarum is not completely impossible, but it is highly speculative and uncertain. There is the huge gulf of 1000 years between them, and the only connection between the Sitones and Terra Feminarum is the notion of female rulership, probably only a cliché in Classic ethnography.130.234.75.18 13:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I also think that since Tacitus quite clearly says that Sitones were similar to Swedes only differing by the fact that they were ruled by a woman, that lists them among Germanic people. Connection to Kvens is very hypothetical, but not altogether impossible. Sitones may have actually been a reference to the multitude of Swedish settlers in the coastal area of Varsinais-Suomi during 0 - 200 CE which is well documented by Finnish archaeologists. They disappeared by 400 CE which might also explain the absence of Sitones in all later sources. --Drieakko 05:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Those able to read Finnish can get very detailed information about these Swedish settlers from one of their main areas in northern Varsinais-Suomi from here. --Drieakko 05:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh boy, what an unfortunate misunderstanding. Tacitus is not talking about varsinais-Suomi, nor present-day Finland. Tacitus is writing about Sitones aka Finns aka Kvens, who (besides living in Finland) inhabited the lands just above Skåne in the mid and northern parts of present-day Sweden and in the Baltic area.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_Empire_125.png http://www.emersonkent.com/images/maps/europe_814.jpg http://www.emersonkent.com/images/europe_912.jpg 91.155.236.125 (talk) 01:39, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

On the contrary! Tacitus specifically uses different names for the ethnicity of Suiones and Sitones, so of course they in no way could have been of the same ethnicity.

Tacitus writes: "Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman. So notoriously do they degenerate not only from a state of liberty, but even below a state of bondage." http://www.northvegr.org/histories and chronicles/tacitus germania in english and latin/005.html 91.155.236.125 (talk) 01:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding spelling of "Sitoni" / Sithoni, etc.

To the user 217.112.242.181:

Another Professor Emeritus (other than Julku), Unto Salo, spells the word in question "Sithoni".

Original Latin text goes as follows:

Suionibus Sitonum gentes continuantur. Cetera similes uno differunt, quod femina dominatur; in tantum non modo a libertate sed etiam a servitute degenerant.

Those better in Latin than me could tell what is the original correct form for Sitonum. --Drieakko 15:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I originally thoght it was Sitoni. Anyway, as far as I understand, the plural form "Sithons", preferred by a certain lovable Wikipedian well known to you, should not be used. Latin plurals are difficult and surprising for Finns, but they seem to always use them in English translations.

By the way, I made slight modifications in the article. The Finnish researchers have sometimes speculated that the Sitones/Sithoni might have been living in Finland without referring to the enigmatic Kvenland at all.217.112.242.181 15:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Sitones = Sigtuna??

Does the reference really make a explicit connection between the Tacitean Sitones and the topographical name of Sigtuna ("Situne"), or is this original research? For a layman it sounds very surprising, as the town of Sigtuna was founded during the 10th century, whole 900 years after Tacitus. Are the "-tuna" names really from the Roman Iron Age? In any case, other etymologies for the name Sitones have been proposed as well.--130.234.5.136 14:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Old Sigtuna goes back in time much farther than the town of Sigtuna which was established only around 990 CE. (Old) Sigtuna is often mentioned as the possible explanation for Sitone(s), can't give any reference right here and now, though. Other etymologies are mentioned there as well, add more if you are familiar with any. --Drieakko 15:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

One fact tag for the statement is enough, IMHO.--Berig 13:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but there were two separate statements. 1) Sigtuna was written Situne (source presented), 2) Sigtuna/Situne and the Sitones are related (no source presented).--130.234.75.20 14:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are curious about the various spellings of Sigtuna, the article Fornsigtuna references many variations.--Berig 17:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)