Talk:Puget Sound mosquito fleet

Untitled

I just linked to this from the article Manette Peninsula. I'll start working on it soon, please do not delete this article on the basis of notability. The notability of the subject is obvious to those who know the history of the Puget Sound. I'll set aside the article I was working on to start on this one. But not today, it is already getting late. - Michael J Swassing (talk) 05:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I worked up this article a bit, it still has a long way to go and needs a good fresh look. There are some nice photo links, mostly to the University of Washington's collections. Mtsmallwood (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Your links to photos are spectacular. I've had this article on my watch list, but have not gotten much done on it. Thank you.

I'm in the Bremerton area, and the local libraries have some reference materials from local historical societies. I'm thinking that working up some organization of the data for ships, operators, and ports-of-call might provide a framework for the body of the article. In each local area the ship company owners were prominent community leaders, and the ports-of-call have in some cases become bustling communities, but in others the rotting piers are often still there.

In the larger context of transportation, these waterways were much more feasible than overland routes for commerce and social networks, long before the era of the steamship.

But the links you've added really get this article moving forward. - Michael J Swassing (talk) 18:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

thanks! add away, there's so much here that needs to be written.Mtsmallwood (talk) 19:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I am gradually adding detail to this topic, I don't have Lewis & Dryden which is the main source for this area up to 1896, and I can't seem to access it on-line, although I know it's available. The secondary sources are not comprehensive, although I've found a couple which are better than others. NEED PHOTOS! If anybody has some, please add.Mtsmallwood (talk) 17:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Article Linkfarm

This article contains an extremely large number of external links, more than what seems reasonable. Per WP:NOT#LINK and WP:EL, it really needs to be compacted to the ones most directly related to this one article. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see it that way. The article gives an extensive (and fully annotated) history of the Mosquito Fleet, it is much more than just a collection of links, which I take to the be the primary concern of WP:NOT#LINK. Also, WP:EL seems to be concerned with the type of links, to profit sites, YouTube, or similar questionable sites. Here, the image links run mostly (or entirely) to the collection of historic images of the University of Washington. At least one person has commented on how helpful the image links are, so I think that shows that they are not unnecessary. Compare Canadian Pacific Railway which has a lot of internal links and numerous external links.Mtsmallwood (talk) 01:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Multiple parts of WP:NOT#LINK applies in this case. It is simply an long list of links to subjects not directly addressed in the article. If a particular ship is notable enough to be mentioned in the article, then it would be reasonable to link it as a reference source. As it stands, the list is simply a web directory.

Also, comparing to another article is not a valid argument on WP - the content of each article needs to stand on its own merit. However, in re: to Canadian Pacific Railway - it should be noted that the links section there is much shorter than here, and needs to shrink further. I'll likely be bringing it to the attention of WP:WPSPAM, as one entire section of links appear to cross into that project's domain. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Note: This same issue of an article containing what amounts to a web directory appears to also exist at Steamboats of Lake Washington. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

All photo links deleted on this page and Steamboats of Lake Washington.Mtsmallwood (talk) 05:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with the removal per Wikipedia:NOT#REPOSITORY. --Hu12 (talk) 18:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, turning the ship names into links to the off-site repository of images is just an attempt to undermine WP:EL by changing how the links are made. Basically changing from having the linkfarm concentrated in a single section, to now having the entire article turn into a linkfarm. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 04:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

With all respect, please don't use the term "link farm" any more. See Link Farm ("The expression 'link farm' is now considered to be pejorative and derogatory.") IMHO serious discussion of WP:EL and how it applies to this article need to start at a level that is reasonably likely to bring consensus, which the appellation "link farm" is not likely to do. Mtsmallwood (talk) 05:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Whatever you choose to call it, the links still appear to be at issue with WP:NOT#LINK (I erroneously cited WP:EL above - while applicable, the bigger issue is with WP:NOT). The new method of embedding the links merely moves the prior issue from a centralized location to being throughout the article. The only allowance for those types of collections that I can find in policy is to either have a single external links for them that points to either the Wikimedia Commons, or to the Open Directory Project via {{dmoz}}, or to a parent directory at the site being linked, and allow the user to find the individual images from that point. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:CITE#When_uploading_an_image is a more appropriate way to use image links, not this. These types of additions fail Wikipedia:NOT#REPOSITORY which makes these 19 additions a linkfarm. If you are interested in presenting a picture, consider uploading or pehaps citing a limited number (not 19) of those, in an appropriate and encyclopedic manor, rather than how it is now. --Hu12 (talk) 19:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

territorial-era military steamers

Please see USS Massachusetts (1845) and note the Puget Sound Content which I just added/expandeddc considerably; the reflink attached to the Col Ebey bit goes to a great historical page/site; there are cats I added which made me wonder if there shouldn't be "List of historical ships of Washington" or Category:Ships in the Pacific Northwest or whatever; and or Category:History of Puget Sound. I know there's too many vessels to do a complete PacNW military-presence list; I'm thinking only of maybe territorial-era or some kind of cutoff point like WWI - ?? And I know this wasn't part of the Mosquito Fleet but it was a steamer (mtsmallwood pls note)...but this isn't a "steamboat article" though...Skookum1 (talk) 04:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

this is a great little site of historical essays and town histories, maybe some of you have already seen it; The site has an essay on Fort Spokane (here), which I googled up when I happened to find it a googlemap while looking up Tillicum Peak, near Metaline Falls (not noteworthy unless it has a story, despite being a "chinookonym"), but I'll take that up on WPWAtalk or on individual talk/article pages as it has to do with a whole bunch of things.Skookum1 (talk) 05:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow. compare the fort spokane story linked just above with this other google hit and also this one, both from http://nps.gov ... is it just me or does the govt one seem censored, as if there had been no Indian Wars in these parts?? And no mention of the events in the other link?? I'll continue this on Talk:Yakima War I think; had some fixes to Treaty of Medicine Creek and should add the Battle of Port Gamble to Port Gamble. Funny about the blankspots in teh public memory...Skookum1 (talk) 05:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Yikes - this section of the USS Massachusetts (1845) article says after it was renamed the USS Farallones it was sold to a "Moore and Co." in San Francisco, in the later 1860s. that's not the Capt Moore of Northwest steamboats is it? Could this have been converted into one of the PacNW steamers?Skookum1 (talk) 05:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Princess Marguerite

Does the Marguerite count? And/or other ships on the Victoria-Seattle runs? Just c rossed my mind while looking at listed ships here....Skookum1 (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

here ya go, I'm off to the gym....Skookum1 (talk) 21:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)`

Princess Marguerite and the other ships of the Princess Fleet need a separate article, I'd say. There were a number of similar vessels on the US side as well. These would be coastal liners or day liners. These ships really were in a class by themselves, much more durable, capable of ocean voyages, and much more expensive than your average 120 long wooden steamboat financed with who knows what and equipped with used steam engines. Robert Turner's Pacific Princesses and Hacking and Lamb's The Princess Fleet are excellent sources for these vessels. Newell and Williamson assembled a book mostly of photographs, called Coastal Liners which gives a good overview of these vessels.Mtsmallwood (talk) 03:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, in the same context as the Mosquito Fleet, I've been wondering about the various vessels in the Gulf/Strait of Georgia and the lower part of the Inside passage; the old water taxi and passenger docks at the north ends of Cambie, Abbott, Carrall and Columbia were hopping places, especially on Friday afternoons one would expect; a lot of people commuted to/from Vancouver and places like Powell River and Sechelt and Squamish andSavary island were creations of the local passenger/shipping fleet as well as places largely forgotten now like Malibu and Wigwam Inn. Not the same topic as the Steamboats of the Inside Passage, either; an article topic looking for a title....Skookum1 (talk) 03:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice resource page

• the CPR fleet.Skookum1 (talk) 15:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Safety and Shipwrecks - Fire

Hi there. I'm a relatively new editor so forgive me if my questions are inappropriate here. My main concern is the Fire section under Safety and Shipwrecks. Almost the entire section is dedicated to a fire that happened onboard a ship on the east coast, with no connection to the Mosquito Fleet or the PNW. The photo that appears is also of the east coast ship and unrelated to the PNW. Two brief examples are given for Mosquito Fleet fires, but appear at the bottom of the section and aren't given any context. Might this section be rewritten with more focus given to examples in the Mosquito Fleet? Thanks! Mpschaff (talk) 17:58, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Why "mosquito fleet"?

There's a lot of information in this article, but something is missing. When was the name "mosquito fleet" coined, and why? Did the ships swarm like mosquitos? Was that area of the river prone to mosquitos? Or some other reason? I could guess, but I shouldn't have to. Chuntuk (talk) 13:44, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Newer source needed for Kitsap foot ferry Southworth/Downtown Seattle

I just updated the grammar of a paragraph in that section that said “service will begin in 2020” to say that “service began in 2020”. I have not gotten a new source for this information, however, and the source cited was from January of 2020. Anecdotally, I can say that I began riding the ferries around Puget Sound in early 2021 and I believe that that line was running at the time so it shouldn’t be too hard to find something to corroborate that, but my anecdotal experience cannot replace a reliable source, and a source from January of 2020 might as well be DECADES out of date, for obvious reasons. I’ll work on hunting down a new one, but if anyone beats me to it feel free to cite it. Ntowle98 (talk) 19:11, 11 May 2023 (UTC)