Talk:Mbira

Questions

Got a couple of questions. First, the title of this article is pretty hard to justify. Jali Foday Musa Suso said (in a concert I attended long ago) that these instruments are all over Africa, and everywhere a different name. But any place English is spoken, the term "thumb piano" will be recognized, while if you call it by a name you learned in a different area you'll draw a blank.

Second, the text seems to be rather specific about a particular variant which does not match the picture -- it says 22 to 28 strips of metal while the image shoew twelve. ;Bear 07:00, 2004 Nov 13 (UTC)

• Agreed, distortion in modern electric (western) music is similarSantaduck 19:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I too think that the article should be titled "thumb piano", as that is the most universal term for the instrument in English speaking areas. Strobilus 22:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

This article should not be entitled 'thumb piano' any more than the article on the violin should be entitled lute. This article focuses on the lamellophones found in Zimbabwe, where the term 'mbira' is a problematic but acceptable generic term for these local instruments. A more general article on 'lamellophones' could include information on the marimbula, likembe, ilimba, and so on. Typically, mbira players I know find the term 'thumb piano' to be a mildly offensive diminuntive of the Western Piano, analogous to calling the piano a fat zither or something. The mbira is not found all over Africa, although lamellophones certainly are. Also, the mbira does have 22 to 28 keys, however a related Zimbabwean instrument that shares a common history has fewer, between 8 and 22. This is called nyunga nyunga or karimba. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mvumvumvumvu (talk • contribs) 15:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone have information on cultural or musical elements of Mbira performances? There is list of players in great abundance, but little information on the history, musicality and spiritual significance that derives from a traditional Mbira performance. I will be researching elements from Nyamaropa mentioned in the article as well as what typically is expected to accompany or take place in a Mbira piece. Any information on aspects of Shona Culture that coincide with Mbira music or simply musical elements in technique or theory would be greatly appreciated. Harninarni (talk) 11:05, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Sections

To whoever reads this (I don't know how likely that is for now...) But anyways, I think its important to keep the focus of this page on the concept of the Mbira in general. There are Mbira from all ofer Africa and several similar instruments from other places in the world. So, maybe there should be a seperate page specifically for Zimbabwean Mbira, and maybe eventually (if that article gets too big) an article for each specific type: Mbira Dzavadzimu, Nyunga Nyunga, etc. Also there should be information about the different tunings, etc. Alex Weeks 15:14, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Also, does anyone have a good image of several different types of Mbira, to put at the top of the page? I don't have an Mbira Nyunga Nyunga, and there are Mbira from different parts of Africa as well. Perhaps just a bunch of different varieties all in one picture. Alex Weeks 17:47, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

AIf someone has any more interesting pictures to show the mbira dzavadzimu, how to hold it, or in a deze or other stuff, feel free to upload them. The one that are currently ther (that I took) work but are kind of boring. Alex Weeks 19:00, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions

Some ideas for expansions:

• Add Dumisani "Dumi" Maraire and Ephat Mujuru as some of the key exporters of Zimbabwean mbira music to the west. Also Maraire to Nyunga Nyunga section, and he may merit his own entry.

• Add other mbira types. Matepe / Sanza / and the pentatonic types from say the Congo as popularized by Konono No. 1 in their 2004/5 release "Congotronics".

• References: Add: Journal of African Music, and the recordings printed commercially by Hugh Tracey and Paul Berliner. Hugh Tracey's LP includes many reed instruments other than the mbira dza dzavadzimu, and he has classified them as pentatonic and hexatonic varieities.

• Westerners: Add western ethnomusicologists Paul Berliner, Hugh Tracey, and his son Andrew Tracey. Also add Erica Azim and her mbira.org website, as the westerner perhaps best known for immersing herself in the art of mbira dza dza vadzimu.

• Current musicians: Name some well-known mbira musicians. Some Zimbabwean names: Cosmas, Beauler, Kwenda, Chiweshe, but should also list non-Zimbabweans of other varieties of mbira. Also mbira-inspired musicians such as Thomas Mapfumo and Oliver Mutukudzi.

• Mbira Dza Dzavadzimu: Note more information on typical musical structure, such as 12/8 "four-phrase" structure, and the 1-beat-apart interlocking of kushaura & kutsinhira, with the possibility for polyrhythms (4/4 locked with 3/4 within 12/8), which is different than many other african musical forms. Also more information on singing. Hosho is not explained as maranka gourd with hota (traditional) or other seeds of convenience (popcorn).

• Historical nature of music: for example, use in ancestor ceremonies drives the preservation of ancient forms of the traditional songs (name a list of songs for known types of reed instruments). Archaeological evidence should be cited (e.g. great zimbabwe).

• Mbira Dza Dzavadzimu in the West: Note the "hot spots" of activity (Colorado and the NorthWest and others). Also briefly note the evolution of marimba music based on zimbabwean mbira (both nyunga nyunga and dza dzavadzimu). Also note zimfest and noteworth western mbira/marimba bands.

• Noteworthy makers of mbira, past and present, both African and even Western. Also info on tuning and manufacturing materials and techniques.

• Overall, the entry is heavily skewed toward Zimbabwean mbira dzadzavadzimu and nyunga nyunga (as these are perhaps the most dispersed into the west, and the former is among the most complex), but it would be nice to expand to cover other reed instruments.

Santaduck 00:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

• "Timbre - pure, focused" - What the hell is this unsubstantial claim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.8.224.10 (talk) 21:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Possible expansion of history section with additional background on mbira and its important purpose — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilykatscott (talk • contribs) 20:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Tuning

• Began to make some corrections in tuning. For example:
  • Gandanga is not a minor tuning. Listen to most gandanga songs, they will sound major. However if you play a nyamaropa 'major' song, it may sound like a minor on gandanga.
  • Major vs. Minor doesn't explain it all-- for example Taireva is mixolydian, not a straight major mode. Other modes also describe playing, for example, Marenje (gandanga) on a nyamaropa.
  • Relative minor: previous text read that switching instruments might make the song jump to a relative minor, which is false. Relative minor is a very specific thing. Nhemamusasa might be 'major' on one nyamaropa, and sound minor on one gandanga, but although it's minor, that doesn't make the latter minor the exact relative major of the first instrument-- it's simply another minor key, not the relative minor of that major. Removed this text relating to relative minor
  • Nonstandard tunings: There has been some standardization in the west, although if you listen to tunings, even the relative pitches are not really comparable to the western concept (tetrachords, etc.). Berliner noted frequencies in his book, as do other sources. Calling Nyamaropa songs "major" requires a huge qualification, and this article does not yet have an accurate explanation.

Santaduck 19:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• there is no such thing as 'minor' or 'major' tuned mbiras in Zimbabwe. This is a Western musical construct that Western musicians have used to attempt to classify the tunings and does not hold water to actual scrutiny of tunings played in Zimbabwe. Minor, Major, Dorian, Mixolydian, etc, etc, these are very specific terms and do not precisely work for the tunings.

Joel Laviolette 17:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Definition

The article quotes several names of different types of lamellophones. These are not Mbiras. There should be a general article for "lamellophone". Mbira is not the genaral term for this class of instrument but a special type from Zimbabwe. Hugh Tracy once suggested the term "Mbira" as a general term, but nowadays ethnomusicologists use the neutral "lamellophone" as the general term.

Erroneous cross-reference re-direct from mbila.

Mbila is a xylophone-like instrument, of Mozambique. Dogru144 12:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The mbira is a thumb piano, originating in Zimbabwe. It is played with the thumbs.

The mbila is a xylophone-like instrument, indigenous to the Chopi people of Inhambe Province, Mozambique. It is played with mallets. See Mbila (musical instrument).

An editor has erroneously redirected mbila to mbira. Dogru144 14:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Mhondoro/Chaminuka

• There is a reference to "Mhondoro or Great Spirit Mediums, Chaminuka" as being the originator of the Mbira, several thousand years ago. Is this a verifiable occurrence, or a belief? If it is a belief, it should be stated as such. I have not head of this before reading it here. Alex Weeks 00:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
• Update: I'm removing the reference, as I haven't been able to verify it. Alex Weeks 02:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge

• For discussion on merging Mbira with Marímbula, see the discussion on the Marímbula talk page here. --Santaduck 22:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

New article at thumb piano

This article is only about the instrument in Zimbabwe, and there is no general article about this African musical instrument. To adress the bias I have starte a stub at thumb piano (which previously redirected here). --Ezeu (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect name

This title is a misnomer (comparing an African instrument to an unrelated European one), and should be moved or merged. Definitely a highly disfavored term. Badagnani (talk) 21:03, 5

The name "thumb piano" is still common in the English speaking world but is being displaced by mbira and kalimba. "Marimba" requires disambiguation from the marimba xylophone. I suggest fusing the pages under "Thumb Piano, Mbira, Kalimba" and adding a disambiguation and link from "marimba"Redheylin (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

You want commas in the new article title? "Mbira" might work as a common name. Badagnani (talk) 01:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)hello

Hello, Badagnani, you are so quick! I do not care about the commas. Your article has better African details, the Kalimba page has some details of interest to "westerners" and will help them understand what is meant, especially if they are given a few links like Shona and Mapfumo.

I made the disambig from the Marimba article. Do you know in which ethnolinguistic groups the term marimba refers to the lamellophone (as opposed to the xylophone)? Badagnani (talk) 01:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Regarding separate articles, I do support articles for the individual instruments, as they have their own techniques and repertoires--the way we have different articles for the classical guitar, acoustic guitar, twelve-string guitar, mandolin, banjo, etc. Right now we have this for Agidigbo and Tom (musical instrument), for example. However, I agree that there should be one main article. Lamellophone is okay, but it contains Jew's harps and a couple of other non-mbira-type instruments. Badagnani (talk) 01:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think in the first place just add a description of the different types and their locations, perhaps with typical artists and records. If it gets too big then, more pages. I do not know offhand the ethnolinguistic usages of marimba, but mbira is certainly a term that should be in the title - it is getting well known in the white world and may eventually erase "thumb piano", but the latter should be kept right now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redheylin (talk • contribs) 01:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

However, I see that the lovers of the "marimbula" are also unwilling to merge pages with mbira, so perhaps some linking and information sharing is needed instead, and a category lamellophones, if it does not exist. Redheylin (talk) 01:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It DOES exist, and there are already pages for marimba, marimbula, mbira, kalimba. There is very little use for this page that I can see. It should be merged into lamellophones if anything. Redheylin (talk) 02:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The jews harps do not matter!Redheylin (talk) 02:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

What does exist? Why do Jew's harps not matter? Your last two postings don't make sense. Badagnani (talk) 02:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry; I missed your post. The category page "lamellophones" exists and it should be top of this tree. It does not matter that Jews Harps are also included since this is in fact a kind of one-note mbira that uses the mouth as a resonator. "Thumb Piano" is a catch-all English term for African lamellophones, and does not really require its own page IMO. I am sorry I spoke before I looked at the range of pages. Redheylin (talk) 01:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree; the Jew's harp is not closely related to the mbira-type instruments in that they are not mounted on a board or box and are blown through. Badagnani (talk) 01:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I removed the picture of the mbira which was erroneously captioned "thumb piano". I understand that the author of this page believes that they are one and the same, but many, many mbira players do not feel this way. The term 'thumb piano' is a misnomer (at best) and should not be used to describe the mbira types. Just because it is a term that has been used heavily in the past doesn't make it acceptable (I think we can all think of words that fit that category). As an mbira player and teacher who travels the US teaching about the mbira, I spend a lot of time reeducating people about this fact. Please understand that I'm not claiming that all lamellophones are mbira.Mbirame

The photo should stay until we can retitle this page. The problem with using "mbira" or "kalimba" as an overall title for a page about plucked lamellophones is that it's the name from just one culture. Badagnani (talk) 04:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

There is already an mbira page and a lamellophone page. My vote would be to merge this with the lamellophone page, as 'thumb piano' is just a generic term for lamellophone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbirame (talk • contribs) 04:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Please read the above discussion thoroughly. There are lamellophones that do not resemble the mbira, such as the Jew's harp. Badagnani (talk) 04:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

HI-Yes, I read the above discussion thoroughly, and I'm aware that the jew's harp is very different from the mbira, chisanza, marimbula, kalimba, karimba, matepe, munyonga, and myriad other lamellophone-which are also quite different from eachother. My concern is that I would like for people to understand that there is a cultural view that the term 'thumb piano' is offensive and was perpetuated by colonizers of Africa who did not understand the musical instruments that they were encountering. That is why most ethnomusicologists have chosen to use the term 'kalimba' as it is a generic word for this pan-African instrument. 'kalimba' also doesn't have the 'spiritual weight' that the mbira has. Mbirame —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC).

That's why this page should be moved. But not to lamellophone, because that's not equivalent. Badagnani (talk) 04:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This page definitely should be moved. Most of the content should be at kalimba, which it's mainly about (& not only because the lede never mentions the title subject...), & the page turned into a "mother page" for all the variants which are being mentioned, but not covered. It's as if the page can't make up its mind if it's about the kalimba or the thumb piano... TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 23:47, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree that "thumb piano" is a gross misnomer for these instruments. It amounts to an American slang term. "Dog house" is an American slang term for the double bass, but I don't find a Wiki article headed "dog house" featuring the bass.

As to where to merge the article, flip a coin. My vote would go to either "mbira" or "kalimba", but really, if you go by Marcuse's Dictionary of Musical Instruments there are dozens of names for these portable lamellophones of African origin played primarily with the thumbs -- and probably hundreds more that Marcuse missed: mbira, lakimba, kalimba, sansu, zanzu, likembe, huru, nyunga, hosho, etc., etc.

Organologically all of these should probably be a in a section under lamellophones, but the terms "mbira" and "kalimba" are pretty widely known outside Africa, and either would be a good refuge for the material in "thumb piano". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

This page name is "Mbira". Mbira is a word from the chiShona language, spoken by the Shona people of Zimbabwe (and some neighboring countries), part of the Bantu language group. We as non-Shona people do not have the authority to just group all lamellaphones into this article because it is a convenient thing to do. The sanza is not an mbira and should not redirect here. The kalimba is a westernization of the mbira nyunga nyunga and as such, has a case to be redirected here. Prior to my recent edits, there was discussion of West African Griots playing mbira (which I could find no reference to them playing any lamellaphones on their own wikipedia article), there was a claim that the instrument was played in the Congo (which is a different ethnic group with different culture and symbolism), and many more factual inaccuracies. It is ethnocentric, lazy, disrespectful and just plain inaccurate to lump every plucked idophone from Africa into this page which is titled "Mbira". Seth.geddes (talk) 07:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC).

If we're not going to have separate pages, then I propose to title the page something totally boring like "African lamellophones". Its straight up cultural dilution and bad encyclopedic protocol to group things otherwise. Then go ahead and merge marimbula, ikembe, kisanji. Then group things by region or ethnic group. Most of this mbira page would fit nicely into a "Shona/Zimbabwean Mbira" section. Seth.geddes (talk) 07:36, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Numerous sources (e.g., Britannica, Marcuse, Merriam-Webster, et al, indicate that "kalimba" is originally a Bantu word, and so, not a westernization. Marcuse, New Grove, and others assert that "kalimba" is the name commonly used to refer to the mbira in Kenya. As instruments, people, and musics migrate, evolve, assimilate, hybridize, etc. sometimes the names get blurred.

If you stick a banjo neck on a guitar body is the result a "banjitar" or is it a "guitanjo". Is it Spanish or African or American? All of the above? None of the above? (I just call mine "Freddy".) Should it be covered in the "Guitar" article or the "Banjo" article? Both? Neither? Should it have it's own article, so that the 50 people in the world who actually own these things can feel good about themselves?

The point being that the situation is complex, if one really wants to get at the details. The mbira exists in multiple forms, each of which has multiple names, and there are myriad similar, related instruments -- some of which may or may not also be mbiras -- which also each are known by many names. These names may or may not have specific ethnological significance -- to some populations, but not to others -- and the names some people know them by may or may not be organologically or ethnologically accurate.

Nonetheless: there they are.

Really, this is not an uncommon situation in music.

The Jew's harp is not a harp; the English horn is neither English, nor a horn; the viola da terra is not a viola, except in Portugal, where some violas are guitars; the "blues harp" is a harmonica; the French horn is probably German in origin; the tromba marina ("marine trumpet") is actually a stringed instrument played with a bow; the autoharp is actually a zither; the "Irish bouzouki" is really an octave mandolin; the Puerto Rican cuatro has ten strings, not four . . . . and on and on and on.

This situation is not going to be resolved by an encyclopedia article, nor even by a string of them. The way it is generally dealt with in other reference works is through a series of compromises, and that's how it's going to have to be dealt with here, else you'll still be arguing about it when the sun goes nova.

Probably the most equitable solution would be to have a single article called "lamellophones", and absorb all the variations into subsections of that. To me, that is not the best aproach for several reasons. The article would have to be immense. It would never stabilize, like the many, endless Wikipedia "List of ..." articles that even SAY they'll probably never be complete. And very few laypeople -- or even many musicians, for that matter -- are likely to be familiar with the term "lamellophone". They're going to hear or encounter an instrument, want to look it up, and someone helpful is going to tell them "that's an mbira", or "that's a kalimba", or "that's a thumb piano", and they're going to go look for it and not find it.

It will be rather like someone searching for information on a "kazoo", and the only place to find it is in the "mirliton" article (which, interestingly enough, redirects to "Eunuch flute", which was a new one on me.)

...Well, you could also construct the mother of all redirect pages, I suppose. Good luck with that.

A better approach -- I think -- would be to compromise on one, or two, or three widely known (if poorly understood) terms (mbira, kalimba, thumb piano, etc.) and treat them as provisionally generic, and use them for an article title, or titles.

You can then have a section within the article(s) on etymology, explaining the true origins of the term, the reason the term is being employed as it is, and the pros and cons of that decision. Many Wikipedia articles do this, and quite successfully. Then you make sure everything is appropriately cross-linked together, and away you go.

My 2¢.

Have at it, ladies and gents.

70.89.176.249 (talk) 00:04, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

whered it go?

There used to be paragraph in here about how the used this piano in schools. That was neat information, and we do it in my school, so it was nice to know that others do too.

WHERED THAT GO??

71.62.108.227 (talk) 00:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)STUDENT

Merge proposal

I think thumb piano and mbira cover the same ground. Since Wikipedia articles are about things, not words, having two separate articles is a form of content forkery. Both articles clearly mention the other as a pseudonym and Google's Ngram viewer shows mbira to be the more popular term. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]} 23:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. It would be like insisting woodwinds and flutes be merged because of a word-population count. There are a number of different forms of thumb-pianos/lamellophones each with a different key arrangement and often made of materials other than metal. Each has its own regional distribution and its own literature. The sanzas of Zaire alone have a 2 volume treatment of them by Laurenty. There are also illimbe, karimba, ndong, likembe. There is an authoritative monograph by Kubik spelling out the amazing range of the instruments, cited on the Thumb Piano page. Moreover, this proposal flies in the face of a movement away from the idea of "African music" per se and towards a treatment of regional musical traditions. So this part is like insisting Breton music get merged in with French or European. I know we have to remove unnecessary entities, but this is over-reduction at its worse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Australopithecus2 (talk • contribs) 14:34, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree that it would be inappropriate to merge "flutes" with "woodwinds", and if the proposal was to merge "thumb piano" with "lamellophones", I would support your position. However merging "thumb piano" with "mbira" does not amount to the same thing. It is more equivalent to merging "bamboo flute" with "flute". It would be entirely appropriate to merge "thumb piano" with "mbira" or "kalimba". (Of the two, I lean toward merging with "mbira", since I believe that "kalimba" was in fact a trade name developed by the Hugh Tracey company for their particular design.)

"Thumb piano" is a misnomer: these instruments are not in any way related to pianos, nor are they played exclusively with the thumbs. "Thumb piano" is basically an American slang term for these hand-held lamellophones of African origin. To have a separate article for "thumb piano" is like having a separate article for "Dog House" (an American slang term for the double bass) which discusses the double bass. Likewise, "axe" is a widely used slang term for "guitar", but I don't find a Wiki article headed "Axe" that discusses guitars at length. What I do find is the use of "axe" to designate a guitar covered on the disambiguation page for "axe".

You are correct that there are many variations of these instruments, but there are also dozens (at least) of different names for essentially the same instrument -- every dialect has its own. Marcuse's Dictionary of Musical Instruments lists at least three dozen names for portable lamellophones of African origin played primarily with the thumbs, and there are probably hundreds more that Marcuse missed. Your disagreement would seem to suggest that there should be a separate Wiki article for each of these variant names; that would be cumbersome, redundant, confusing, and unnecessary -- rather like requiring a separate article for each of the hundreds of variants of the flute, most of which also each have their own distribution and literature.

Currently, even in America, the term "mbira" has gradually replaced the use of "thumb piano", and is pretty much the new generic term for these instruments in the west. Merge the content with "mbira", and include a section listing the more popular name variants for the instrument.

Unsigned comment, 30 de juliette 2014 à 22:21‎ 74.95.43.249

Setting aside the issue of what should be the primary name (I lean Mbira, myself). While I agree that if there is sufficient documentation about individual variants/traditions, those should merit their own articles, we need one centralized article on the topic of "hand-portable African-based thumb-plucked lamellophones". To draw a parallel, there is a main article Concertina, and there are separately pages for Bandoneon and Chemnitzer concertina since those are particular variants thereof that have a body of work written about them. So I wouldn't be against having a sansa page if we properly cite academic works explaining the specifics of that variant, but I am against having two broad-based articles about "thumb plucked African lamellophones". MatthewVanitas (talk) 06:12, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Completed merge

This proposed merge has been kicking about for a few years, and Thumb piano was pretty weak, so I decided to WP:BEBOLD and just merge them finally. We can debate what the primary article name should be, but I think that having two separate articles was not in the interest of the readership.

I've moved over content from the article page and talk page, removed some redundancies between the two, and smoothed out the sectioning slightly'. There's still cleanup to be done, particularly in the "Tunings" section which is kinda cluttered, and the lede needs refining.

In whatever case, now at least it's all literally "on one page" and we can get it refined in one spot, and (partially) avoid confusing readers about terminology. MatthewVanitas (talk) 06:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm really not sure that this was a good idea. I mean, just look at the Hugh Tracey Kalimbas and the Zimbabwean Mbiras - they are very different instruments, with different geographical and cultural distributions. Yet they each have stable forms. I think it might have been far better to have a general "lamellaphone" article, with sub-articles about the varieties. Also, whatever happened to the note diagram of the Hugh Tracey Kalimba layout that used to be in the thumb piano article? Esn (talk) 07:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ah, never mind, I see it. I guess the issue here is that there are so many varieties, that it can be hard to know what to keep and what to separate from a "general" article... Esn (talk) 07:22, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

example is missing

§Rhythm says

Mbira music, like much of the sub-Saharan African music traditions is based on cross-rhythm. The following example is from the kushaura part of the traditional mbira piece "Nhema Musasa." ... Thnidu (talk) 01:06, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

The audio example was deleted on 25 September 2015 in edit with the comment "It was deleted on Commons by Natuur12 (Per Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mbira cross-rhythm.jpg).)". The text obviously needs to be amended, but how? Delete completely?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Outside Africa

This statement: "While kalimba initially meant the Hugh Tracey product, the name is now generic", is incorrect. Hugh Tracey appropriated the Kenyan term for this category of instruments for his own instrument, but the term initially referred to lamellae instruments similar to the mbira in Kenya. In the west -- North America and Europe, especially, "kalimba" became a generic after the Hugh Tracey instrument became popular, but in recent years preference has begun to shift back to "Mbira". See Sybil Marcuse: "Musical Instruments: A Comprehensive Dictionary", among others. This paragraph is flagged "original research?", but I doubt there is any research behind the claim; it's just wrong.

I think a section, probably near the top of the article, discussing some alternate names for the instrument, with their region of origin/preference, could help dispel some of this confusion. There are a plethora of African lamellae instruments, with a plethora of names, and even very similar instruments have different names in different dialects. The "mbira", for example, is variously known as "mbira" (Zimbabwe); "ikembe" (Rwanda); likimbe (Congo); kalimba (Kenya); "marimbula" (Caribbean); sanza (Africa since mid 1960s); as well as "sansa"; "zanza"; "sansula"; "mbila"; "huru"; "nhare"; "matepe"; "karimbao"; "karimba"; "okeme"; "ubo", and a host of others, in addition to "thumb piano" in North America.

Regarding some earlier comments suggesting that the term "thumb piano" is somehow derogatory, a term applied by ignorant westerners to an instrument they did not understand: There may or may not have been some ignorance involved, but unless some good references can be provided, I seriously doubt the name was any deliberate attempt at oppression by colonial powers. Indeed, I have heard many black musicians, including some highly committed to studying and preserving African cultural traditions, refer to variations of this instrument as "thumb pianos". It is simply a nickname for the instrument, such as many folk and jazz musicians in Europe and the Americas are wont to apply to various instruments e.g.: "horn" for any wind instrument (even though saxophones or flutes are clearly not horns); "axe" for a guitar; "skins" for drums; "dog house" for upright bass; etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added 17 June 2019 (UTC)

I largely agree with this sentiment. I would add that while African lamellophones are similar in that they use metal tines to produce sound, this doesn't mean all these instruments are 'the same instrument'. The banjo is very similar to the balalaika, which is very similar to the guitar, which is very similar to the lute, which is very similar to the oud. All these instruments operate in the same basic way, yet they're regarded as 'different instruments', because of their slight variations in design. African lamellophones vary in design for musical and cultural reasons, and so they can be regarded as different instruments, just as guitar-like instruments are. --KalimbaEnjoyer (talk) 11:14, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Tears

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't seem to find any reference in the article to the rattles attached to most African instruments. These produce a buzzing or rattling sound as the instrument is played, which I've heard some African players refer to as "the tears of the instrument". While a lot of Western instruments derived from the Hugh Tracey version lack these, virtually all African forms have them. I have even known African musicians to put bottlecaps inside Hugh Tracey instruments to simulate the "tears", without which, in their opinion, the instrument is "dead". This seems like an important omission, since there seems to be considerable philosophy behind it.

Another thing that probably should be mentioned is that the Hugh Tracey form of the instrument, and many of its derivatives, have articulation holes on the back of the instrument, that are used to impart a vibrato or "wah-wah" like effect to the sound as they are opened and closed.

Both of these items need to be covered. Leaving them out is akin to describing the piano without mentioning the pedals, or talking about guitars and never mentioning guitar picks. 74.95.43.253 (talk) 02:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Should kalimba and thumb piano redirect here?

Hi everyone. I notice that the search terms kalimba and thumb piano redirect to this article, and that there is no dedicated article for African lamellophones. It gives the impression, as is indeed stated in the article, that the kalimba is really a Western version of the mbira, but I think this way of phrasing it does a disservice to the dozens of other African lamellophones from all over Africa, and is probably not as accurate a statement as it could be. I appreciate the need to make clear that this type of instrument is an African invention, but to say that the kalimba is just an mbira sort of misdirects the reader into thinking the mbira is the most important of these instruments, or that Hugh Tracey changed the mbira to make a version he thought was better, with a hollow soundboard and no buzzers.

In fact, the kalimba is a lot more similar to, or almost a direct descendant from the Tanzanian sanza, as examplified by the hollow soundboard, the shape and layout of the tines, and the fact those tines are raised up from the board, where with the mbira the board is carved out to attach the tines into it. I believe the sanza also does not have buzzers, unlike the mbira. I'd also like to direct you to this interview with Tracey on YouTube where he demonstrates some of the many different types of African lamellophones, and where he states that he made "one" himself, referring to the many different African lamellophones he just showed, and not just the mbira. I think it may be good to have a dedicated article for African lamellophones, and have the part about Hugh Tracey's kalimba being derrived from them moved to that new article. KalimbaEnjoyer (talk) 09:42, 3 November 2023 (UTC)