Talk:List of steampunk works

Time for a cull

I think it is high time for the active, experienced editors to make a cull of this article. In the last two months, a great many additions have been made in the film, tv, and video game sections that probably do not pass muster. Let's make a concerted effort to discuss here which ones we think do not make the grade, and be more vigilant in seeing they do not get readded. Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

As long as that cull doesn't assume that all Steampunk is set in the Victorian era, then yes it is time. But I fear that too many elitists have hijacked the genre and decided that Steampunk is solely 1800's based and nothing else.magnius (talk) 01:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

A problem here is that some people are trying to redefine steampunk as a "lifestyle" (Like "Goth"), and that necessitates a very broad definition. It also makes any discussion of what is or is not "Steampunk" a question of personal preference with a high possibility of offense.

So you wind up with people just including any film, book, or music that they happen to like. Usually anything with even remotely retro-future aspects to it. (Or anything that's remotely Victorian.)

The upshot is that you get a large number of people who will argue passionately that not only is "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow", or "Bioshock" steampunk, but that we don't have the right to question that declaration.

If "Sky Captain" is not steampunk, then the article should explain why that wouldn't be. According to the first paragraph of the article, Sky Captain would seem to fit the definition perfectly. My non-expert opinion would be that it is surely a steampunk film. If it's not, then I'd like this page to help clarify why that wouldn't be the case so that I can be more educated on the topic.

It is not wikipedias place to designate something steampunk. The only reason it is not in the list, is that no-one has bothered to look for a reliable source for it. Putting an unsourced entry in, that you already believe is Steampunk, would not be very educational, imo.Yobmod (talk) 07:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Sky captain does not fit the definition perfectly. The first paragraph of the article makes it clear that the "retro" time period and technology level it's talking about is Victorian times and its steam power technology. SkyCaptain is clearly post WWII era, and the technology is powered by gasoline engines and modern electrical systems, not steam.

I don't understand why this distinction is so hard. Not everything Retro-Future is Steampunk. The words do not mean the same thing. APL (talk) 18:53, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I would consider Sky Captain, Bioshock, et al. to be "dieselpunk" proper. Theoretically we could create a separate list for every cyberpunk derivative, but my proposal is to create a list of all retro-futuristic fiction. 24.130.20.121 (talk) 02:59, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess my point is that it'll be an uphill battle. This list will perpetually degrade with well-meaning editors adding (especially) films and movies more or less at random. APL (talk) 14:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - the key is "steam," too many people seem to assume that Victorian elements make something Steampunk.

Although I a agree that people will always try and argue the toss over what is and isn't Steampunk one easy way to check is to look over the article in question. As I've said before (here and elsewhere) this article isn't where things get assigned to Steampunk, this should be done in the article. If the article makes no mention of Steampunk (or even "steam") then adding the article to this list is opinion and original research. Clearly this might lead to some cobbling Steampunk onto an article but that should be obvious. If it says something is Steampunk which doesn't seem to be but it has been in a stable article for a while then it is best to flag the problem on their talk page and see how it resolves itself. So we don't have to come up with a definition and apply it here - the onus is on those adding the item to make sure the article supports this claim. (Emperor (talk) 18:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC))

Uh, no. The article on the proposed item isn't golden and this is derivative. Both this and the main article should have sources to back up the steampunk claim. An article's stability is completely irrelevant, it might just be an obscure article or an overlooked claim, those definitely exist. If you think something is or isn't steampunk, do a search, follow the links, etc. It's not rocket science. Nerfer (talk) 03:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I am relearning how to add links properly and I also figure you might want to discuss the articles, so I will just post links on this page for now.

Anime:

D. Gray Man-

Compelling characters, rich visuals, and solid story create a mystery set in a world conceived in a "steampunk" gothic horror style. This show is one you definitely can't miss.

[1]

Novels: Elizabeth Bear

"New Amsterdam"

From a "Publisher's Weekly" snippet on her main site-

[2]--

a stunning blend of steampunk and eldritch horror

and "The Edda of Burdens"

(her own official description)

The Edda of Burdens is the story of these three, and of dead Strifbjorn, and how the end of the world transformed them and everything they touched. It's a dark and dreaming story of a steampunk alternate future, in which battered demigods roam the streets of ancient cities and heroes--mortal, immortal, and doomed--do what terrible things they must, in the hope of life and the face of the end of everything.

[3]

--72.73.65.219 (talk) 12:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Dana

Also-Steam Detectives is also an anime.

--72.73.65.219 (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Dana

From what I understand, steampunk as a genre is one where futuristic tech based either in Victorian/Edwardian times (Sherlock Holmes, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) or a similar but different time (Lia Habel's Gone with the Respiration novels, which is set in the "New Victorian" time period) is used and is integral to the plot/world-building. So any media that falls into that category would count as steampunk.

- LA Knight — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.129.128.219 (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

- Return to OZ - No mention of this film, which includes a clockwork soldier by the name of Tik Tok. 82.16.19.51 (talk) 10:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Crimson Skies or Crimson Skies High Road to Revenge

Idk but i think this might be a bit of steampunk, maybe diesel punk

Response-

I think there should be a discussion of whether or not "Diesel Punk" is a subgenre as the term was coined in 2001.--72.73.65.219 (talk) 12:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Dana

"Discussion" is frequently outside of wikipedia's scope (especially with the moderator of this article), as it verges on WP:OR. Instead we'd have to go back to external sources and compare those. Personally though I wouldn't see one as a descendant of the other - "diesel punk" goes back to the mid '80s at least (Mutoid Waste Company and others). Both could be seen as having emerged from a "punk" sensibility, with a mechanical bent, but they followed sibling paths, not ancestors. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The term was first used in 2001-well after "Steampunk". It had the effect of making works previously described as "Steampunk" categorized differently-Hence I would consider it a subgenre:)--72.73.65.219 (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Dana

Moby games

The Moby games reference, which is used several times in this list, does not seem appropriate or notable enough to me. The definition for steampunk which they use on that page is far too vague:

Possibly the easiest definition of steampunk is: Modern technology as depicted using an earlier form of technology. Typically this includes a lot of cranks, gears and clockwork mechanisms, but might also feature basic electricity gathered from hydroelectric, geothermal or other sources.

With this as their definition, a great many games might be deemed appropriate with which we would disagree. I would never hold myself up as an expert on video games---quite the contrary, in fact!---but, it seems to me that we need a better source than this if a game is going to be included in this list. ---[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]][[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']] (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Isn't Moby user-generated? There is an "add content" button there. Seems like an unreliable source to me. I'm removing it for now (but not removing the entries that use it).Yobmod (talk) 13:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Cull

As per the weak consensus above, I have purged the list of all item that don't have an article that describes them as

• "Steampunk"
• "Clockpunk"
• "Gaslamp romance" (or similar)
• Modern works Inspired by Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, or Mary Shelley.
• Modern works described as "Victorian Science Fiction"
• Fantastic, non-historical steam power.

-or-

• A cite in this article, no matter how weak.

To avoid being ridiculous, I also made exceptions for works with "steam" or "steampunk" in the actual title.

I considered also making an exception for works that include or parody Tesla, (Like 'The Prestige', but couldn't think of how to justify that.)

I don't think people will like the result. In fact, I'm not even sure I like it. I'm sure that some worthy books got the axe. But I decided to be WP:Bold and give it a try and see what people think.

If people think this is too drastic, I won't be insulted at all if it gets reverted.

APL (talk) 01:18, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

P.S. : I have also removed Dr Steel from the music section because its reference is a broken link. APL (talk) 01:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

It is pretty deep and includes things I know are Steampunk but it is not about what I know it is what can be proved and adding items back in will require some extra work here or on the relevant article. The one I'd want to demonstrate Steampunk for is Anubis Gates, which seems to have an important part in the history of the development of the Steampunk concept/term but it would need better references - I'll see what the main article (and a bit of Googling) can turn up.

Ones I'd flag as possible causes for concern is the original Dr Who series - it has been a while since I watched either (and one tries not to remember Sylvester McCoy's run as the Doctor) but I can't recall anything that would justify their inclusion other than a Victorian setting. The two from the new series seem OK - the first has clockwork robots and the second has a giant steam-powered Cyberman stomping through London but I can't put my finger on anything similar for the other two. (Emperor (talk) 15:45, 26 December 2008 (UTC))

P.S.S. : I re-added the game SkyGunner after finding the appropriate link to an article that explicitly states that the game is Steampunk. Not only does the G4tv link list the game as such in the second paragraph, I have a second link here, http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue273/games.html, (Scifi.com) that states it as such as well. DeadEndX (talk) 01:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Good job. I rmved it the first time, but the new cite looks fine.YobMod 12:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

A Trip to the Moon (1902)

I searched for sources calling this steampunk, and couldn't find any at all. It looks like standard science fiction to me - there is no anachronistic steam power, there is a science fictional speculation on future technology. I added a citation tag for now, as it's removal was reverted. Can anyone provide a citation, or is it purely original research? I notice that it's article has attained GA status with no mention of Steampunk at all, so any citation found would be good to see there too. Unless the film is not in this genre at all....Yobmod (talk) 15:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

The question is what your (as you WP:OWN this category) definition of steampunk is? Is Jules Verne steampunk, even though its anachronism is forward-looking rather than backward. Now the usual literal statement of steampunk will literally rule this out, yet the community consensus (outside the trivia of wikipedia, which prefers their google blinkers to brass goggles) happily accepts Verne & Wells as part of the canon. Most of those interested in the community find this contradiction trite, or at least have the wit to see beyond it. Melies' film is a clear derivative of Verne, and has similar rights to inclusion in the canon.

As to references, then Vogel (1974). Film as a Subversive Art. is usually an excellent reference here, although it's itself too old to use the literal term "steampunk" (good book though, and now there's a reprint it's affordable). I imagine you'll cheerfully delete away, secure in your narrow view of rote recitation of policy and ignoring how ridiculous this makes your changes look. Ho Hum. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

"Now the usual literal statement of steampunk will literally rule this out," If this is true, Then it should be removed. WP is not a feel-good society for bloggers. WP is an Encyclopedia filled only with verifiable facts.

If a fact is literally false, but a lot of people prefer to believe it is true, then it is still false and should not be presented as true in an encyclopedia.

When I culled the list before, I left things that were modern works inspired by Jules Verne, as that view is backed up by the Steampunk article itself. I'm not sure if 1903 counts as "modern", though. (The man himself was still alive!) From a 1903 perspective, I guess you would just call it "Science Fiction". APL (talk) 16:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

You've failed to understand my statement entirely. 8-( Cites for Melies are really pretty uninteresting - it either is steampunk or isn't steampunk, and this depends on the narrowness of your view of steampunk rather than whether one trivial "encyclopedia" page is referenced or not. Now it's a very good question whether the steampunk archetypes (Verne, Wells et al) are part of it, or merely influences upon it, but that's not swayed by the very simplest phrasing of a pat definition being that which excludes them. That merely means it's a poor definition, or a foolish attitude to place an over-precise interpretation on an imprecise statement. It's a good faith question though, and one worthy of many a bottle in the snug of the Engineer's Guild. Still not an encyclopedic question though (wikipedia by formal policy does not get to define stuff, which is where Domboy, Trekphiler & friends go wrong). In an encylopedic context such as this, the best you can hope for is to round up these pre-neeologism sources, describe them but to list them separately as proto-steampunk.

As to referencing Melies, then that's easy from any history of early film (this is the earliest sf film we're talking about, not anything obscure, and anyone familiar with the history of either film, sf or sf films will know it well). However you won't find it termed "steampunk", simply as that's a recent neologism. As I suggested, Vogel's "Subversive Art Form" is worth the read. Taking the view "Anything with a mention in Matrix online is sacrosanct, anything missing from that one trivial source is heresy" is ridiculous, and looks it. Almost as much so as, "I've made more edits to this article than you have, therefore my contributions are more reliable". Andy Dingley (talk) 17:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What contributions? All you do is argue, but never improve the list with citation, which is a core part of wikipedia. I've brought a number of SF-related lists up to featured list status, and arguing at featured list review that we don't need citations will get us nowhere. Note that while you wrote the last post, i added citations to 3 Verne/Welles based films being precursors, and brought over the citation i had provided at Steampunk about Verne/Welles being inspirations for the genre. I didn't say i made more eidts, i said a added more citations, which is in response to your accusations that i am only interested in deleting material and preventing others from adding examples.Yobmod (talk) 17:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Matrix online has an article that specifically says Verne and Welles are not Steampunk, but are precursors. (This is an official publication of the British Science Fiction Association, so they are the nearest we are likely to get to "experts") I don't see what WP:OWN has got to do with anything - i asked for citations. I'm guessing this response means there are none? I might point out, that for all your complaining, i have added more citations to Steampunk, List of steampunk works, List of cyberpunk works, Cyberpunk derivatives and Biopunk than you have or ever will. My definition is immaterial, as it is reliable sources we need, not oringinal research from me or anyone. But, Voyage to the moon has no steam, it uses rocket ships to fly to the moon: It is quite clearly just science fiction of it's day.Yobmod (talk) 16:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Btw APL, i thought our Steampunk article stated something similar in terms of Verne/WElles etc. They are certainly precursors and inspirations for the genre, and should be mentioned. At least that was what it said when i added the citations there, many months ago. Maybe this list needs another section for precursors in film - the Matrix online article mentions specific authors and works, although all are based on books, so maybe a precursors section to cover all media up to the coining of the term? That how we did it in the List of cyberpunk works. Nice work on the previous cull - i started something similar in the cat. tree, almost none of them had cites so far, except those i addedYobmod (talk) 17:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps this list should have a "Precursors to Steampunk" section. If could contain works by Verne and other works that would have been considered simply futurist sci-fi when they were made, but are retro-future by modern standards. I'm all in favor of that if we can define it better and narrow it to steampunk specifically. (What I just said would apply equally well to the original Star Trek series.) Perhaps that would be an acceptable compromise. It would still need to be supported by external sources, or at least the articles for the listed items, so I'm not sure how well it would work. Worth a try, though. APL (talk) 18:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I created a precursors section, with citad examples of which authors are influences, and some of their works that are specifically mentioned as being important in film. I didn't list works by those authors that don't have a cite of their own, as this would get very long (I have the Encyc of Fantasy to hand, and will add the numerous other authors it mentions as precursors, including prolific writers like Dickens), nor for remakes of films (ie i don't think the latest terrible Time Machine film was Steampunk at all, even if earlier versions are).Yobmod (talk) 08:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Doctor Steel

I have added Doctor Steel again, I have no association with the band, I am not some street teamer or anyone attempting 'viral marketing'. But surely MTV is a reliable enough source of reference for Doctor Steel to be included? I am not bothered one way or the other (I don't like his music), but there seems to be a strange assumption that everyone who adds it is a viral marketer, even when they include a valid enough looking reference. If you can explain to me why MTV is not reliable enough then fair enough. magnius (talk) 23:04, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

MTV is fine for pop culture, imo. We use the same ref at the Steampunk article - i think it was removed here cos the link somehow got broken. Good job in fixing/replacing!Yobmod (talk) 08:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Lit subheadings and table

I want to see if there is any consensus / opposition to me starting to convert the list into table format, with columns for title, author, year, notes, reference. This makes it easier to see which are cited (I've now cited more than half, so the ref tags get unwieldy), and would make the list sortable by date and author, which would show both development of the genre, and which are important authors).

This would remove the setting sub-heading, which i don't think are that helpful. Could mention setting in the notes, but many i havn't read, so someone else would have to do that.

Also, once the table is in place, and that remai uncited i will start to tag, then remove. This will be a particular problem for the comics (I only read Xmen and Sandman) and TV (i don'T have one) so if editors are attached to particular titles being here, citation should start being added ASAP. The other sections Magnius and I already started citing.Yobmod (talk) 09:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Eg: Move to article

These are the novel still left uncited. I moved them here rather than formatting for the table, in case there are no sources.Yobmod (talk) 10:34, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Gaslight romance

As wikipedia regards GR as a defunct neologism and a subtype of Steampunk, are we using references to GR as acceptable here? Even when the source say "this is gaslight romance, not Steampunk" (which Clute does sometimes). I've used one such so far.

Also for references saying "Steampunk elements". The Prestige (book not film) can be cited as having a Steampunk subplot - is that sufficient?Yobmod (talk) 10:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion, the genre "Steampunk" originally had to have strong "punk" aspects. (Anarchism, heavy focus on individuality, etc.) So people used "Gaslamp Romance" and other similar terms to describe fantasies in similar settings without the punk. That original definition of "steampunk" is pretty much dead and now it's generally used to include that whole group of stories even those with very conservative storylines. (Incidentally, Steampunk Magazine is a good source of short stories that are still heavy on the 'punk', when they manage to put on an issue, which isn't often.)

So, I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinion the term "steampunk" now encompasses everything that was once considered "gaslamp romance"(or similar). I don't know what good my opinion is, though. It would take a good amount of research to back it up with strong citations. (And it's entirely possible that some people would disagree with me.) APL (talk) 19:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

deus ex 3

do you think deus ex 3 should be added to games section? it looks VERY steampunk-ish.. --90.178.180.22 (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

No, mainly because it hasn't actually been released yet (not until next year). Plus, there are no reliable sources that say it is steampunk, and I doubt that there ever will be magnius (talk) 18:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Les Cités Obscures

I'm saddened to see the graphic novel series Les Cités Obscures has been removed from the list even though its own article fulfills the given condition of calling it steampunk. In the present time of the series's parallel world situated on a Counter-Earth, clothing, technology, language, and decorative design of most Obscure Cities is most obviously Regency, Victorian, and Edwardian in style, with obvious futuristic to bizarre technological twists typical of steampunk. --79.193.101.67 (talk) 01:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I tried editing the tables and they're obviously way too complex for me. Somebody knowledgeable please add The Other Log of Phileas Fogg (1973) by Philip José Farmer in the literature table, and Les Cités Obscures (publication begun in 1982) by François Schuiten and Benoît Peeters at Comics/graphic novels. The reference for Les Cités Obscures could be Cities of the Fantastic: A Contemporary Series of Verne-inspired Graphic Novels, Pulp Rack, no. 8, 2007, which in its very first paragraph describes it as "part steampunk, part world of marvels, part dystopia". Further down, this source might say that steampunk might not quite be an appropriate label for Les Cités Obscures, but the author only says so because of making a difference between unscientific "pulp" influenced by H. G. Wells on the one hand which she associates with modern steampunk, and Verne's scientifically feasible narratives on the other which she sees as the true ancestor of the series. I consider this difference as neglectable, as the Wikipedia definition names Wells as well as Vernes as the ancestors of the steampunk genre. --79.193.95.4 (talk) 14:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Greg Keyes's Age of Unreason series

Pre-Victorian and associated more with Newtonian alchemy than steam (though many devices are steam-driven), but it's certainly alternate history in which anachronistic mechanical devices have drastically changed the way people live. Seems a good fit to me. 60.241.72.76 (talk) 11:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Role Playing Games

I know every man and his dog is adding copious amounts of crud to both this and the Steampunk article: everything from Harry Potter to Brazil seems to be thrown up regularly. However I was wondering what the opinion might be about including an RPG sub-category within this list. I know it was via Castle Falkenstein that I first heard the term and I know things like Space 1889, For Fairy Queen and Country and possibly Cthulhu by Gaslight may even fit the bill. I know some of the more recent computer games incorporate aspects of steampunk. What do people think? ~ Brother William (talk) 12:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The Affinity Bridge by George Mann

I think that this novel simply screams steampunk. A reference to an amazon product page is here. Please consider adding it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0765323206 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.72.134.77 (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Gilded Age Records

I would like to add some kind of mention of the fairly new Steampunk centered record label/artists collective Gilded Age Records. http://www.gildedagerecords.com

They currently have 29 bands featured, and all of them draw from some sort of 19th Century inspiration. Not all are specifically Steampunk, but most are. The only reference to them is in the same article that The Clockwork Quartet was featured in (from Bizarre Magazine). Not sure how to go about this, since I'm pretty sure they need more references. Regardless I thought it worth to point out to you members to see if you can find some way to include them in the music section.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.205.88 (talk) 22:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Golden Compass? Really?

Like hell The Golden Compass is steampunk. I'm going to remove that because there is nothing "steampunk" about zeppelins, magic stuff, or divine things. 98.196.84.105 (talk) 04:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. If you read the books, it is clear that Lyra's world is in an alternative universe which can be reached from ours. If the other two books had been filmed it would have become clear that at least four universes were involved: Lyra's, ours, the Wheelers' one and the universe of Cittàgazze. While Lyra's world contains many steam punk elements the others do not. On balance I think that The Golden Compass should be removed from the list. -- Derek Ross | Talk 05:35, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually, due to the use of steam-based and other Victorian/Edwardian technology (zeppelins, steam locomotives, Tesla-inspired electrical devices such as the Silver Guillotine), that lands The Golden Compass squarely in the steampunk genre. All steampunk needs to be steampunk is steam-based (and other relavent) tech. Which TGC has.

- LA Knight — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.129.128.219 (talk) 20:57, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Where is Boilerplate?

Wouldn't Boilerplate be an excellent example of steampunk? The website, http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/ graphic novel, http://www.amazon.com/Heartbreakers-Meet-Boilerplate-Anina-Bennett/dp/1932382860/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2 upcoming book, http://www.amazon.com/Boilerplate-Historys-Mechanical-Paul-Guinan/dp/0810989506/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djkmann (talk • contribs) 20:01, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

To be added

In 2009, the Syfy cable television network began airing a new series called Warehouse 13, heavily based on a steampunk aesthetic. Set in the current day, it is an action/adventure/science fiction series based on the premise that the United States Secret Service has maintained for over 100 years an enormous warehouse of objects with mysterious powers, and employs teams of agents to track down and lock up these 'artifacts'. During the course of the series, many steampunk items are shown both as artifacts and as tools used by the agents, including the "Farnsworth Communicator" and the "Tesla Gun".

British comic book artist Bryan Talbot has written several steampunk works. He is credited with creating the first steampunk graphic novel, The Adventures of Luther Arkwright, and Grandville, his most recent work to date, coming out in 2009. Both fit into the fantasy steampunk setting. Luther Arkwright is set across different parallel universes. Grandville is set in a world populated mostly by anthropomorphic animals, inspired by the works of Jean Ignace Isidore Gérard and Albert Robida.

References

New entries in literature

New examples have been added to the literature table, but they are not in alphabetical order. I attempted to fix this, but clearly did not get the formatting correct, so I abandoned my efforts. The alphabetization needs to be fixed for consistency. And, in future, new examples should be brought to the talk page, rather than simply stuck into the table. Thanks. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 15:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Myst?

Would the Myst series be an appropriate addition under the video game category? There's a lot of steam-/clockpunkish tech throughout, though in a lighter vein than a lot of steampunk. --Jay (Histrion) (talk • contribs) 19:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Laputa: Castle in the Sky

In the interests of preventing a slow-burn edit war : Is there any harm in using the International title of "Castle in the Sky", "Laputa: Castle in the Sky"? Since the international title wholly contains the US title, I don't see how using the International version would hurt readability. APL (talk) 15:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I see no purpose in using a link that redirects. The title was stable until the recent, and unhelpful, edits of one anonymous user. The stable version should be preserved. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the title, so I have no interest in it. But it doesn't have to be a redirect, it can be a bar link, and WP policy is to not "Correct" redirects, anyway. Also preserving the stable version is a weak argument. Improvements are made to articles all the time.

In any case, it's clear that the longer title really is the correct title in non-US countries. Amazon.Co.UK EzyDVD.com.au

Articles are supposed to be consistent in their nationality and dialect. If we're going to use the completely unrecognizable non-us title for "The Golden Compass", we should use the non-us title for this work as well. APL (talk) 18:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

As to the substantive matter here: I have no problem with a piped link, or even with moving Castle in the Sky to the other title. What I have a problem with are anonymous users who make unexplained edits, the first of which changed the title to a redlink. I had no idea the film had another title, and a simple explanation when the edit was first made could have avoided this. I still do not think that using a title that redirects is helpful. In the future, someone will click on the link, see the redirect, and decide to fix it. I can almost guarantee this will occur, because it is the sort of thing I would do in such a situation. A piped link would solve the problem. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:23, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

RepublicanJacobite, lay off the edit warring, the 3RR breaches, the WP:NPA and what looks like mis-use of rollback. 8-( Also for your information, redirects are not banned as wl targets, nor are they "broken". I did like your quote though, "Rv; what the world calls it is irrelevant", because that has to be one of the worst admissions of WP:OWN I've seen. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I am not edit-warring. An anonymous user, who uses no edit summaries, never attempts to explain why he is making his edits, a large number of which have not been helpful, and who reverts to his preferred version even whilst there is a discussion ongoing, is edit-warring. He can very easily come here and make a case for his edits. He has chosen not to. I at least made my case here before reverting again. Furthermore, the rollback was a mistake, which I regret, and was the result of being too fast and careless in where I placed my cursor. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, thankyou for your reasonable comments. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• So what do we do with this? I favour Laputa: Castle in the Sky for several reasons:

• It's in the original Japanese, "Tenkū no Shiro Rapyuta"
• It's the more common English-language name world-wide (by markets)
• The reference is an obvious one to Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels, and worth preserving.
• There is also the traditional "sorcerer's stone" problem of titles being changed for the US market. No, I don't understand it either.

If consensus after some discussion goes either way I'm happy to respect that (and I'd encourage Mr No Face to join in here and get spinning), but edit-warring isn't the way. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I will respect any decision that is reached by consensus on this page. I think this is rather a minor point. The retitling, as stated above, makes no sense to me. What is the naming convention? Can we simply move the article to Laputa: Castle in the Sky? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:11, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

The naming of the article is an irrelevance (see also WP:OSE) as links to appropriate redirects aren't a bad thing. The current name of the article doesn't need to be seen as the only possible name for links to it. ...But yes, the article ought to be renamed. I would have done it already (see prior discussion on its talk page), except that it needs to go through tagging & admins to do it and I just haven't had the time. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:45, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I also favor the longer title. It's still recognizable to US audiences. And the style of this article is already established as using the more international titles.

Since there is absolutely nothing wrong with redirects that's not an issue, But if a bar-link will make RJ happier we it can do that too. (Of course, if we do a bar-link now, it may someday be a redirect if they rename the article.) APL (talk) 15:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I would prefer the piped link for the reasons I gave above. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 15:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, that's a lot of words written about a single word. I've changed it to a piped link. Now let's never speak of this again. APL (talk) 15:49, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 15:56, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Sources`

Sorry for saving a bunch of tiny edits instead of doing one large edit. (I hate when people do that.) But I removed a bunch of sources, that were either blogs or did not support what they were supposed to be referencing. APL (talk) 21:36, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd initially posted a link to a particular forum thread that had a more extensive list (looks like my link was bad, sorry; I'll try to get the URL for the actual thread) - I would have actually included them in the table (with the necessary references NOT from just the thread) if the tables themselves weren't so godawfully done (no, I didn't have the time to go through and add entries enough to double the length of the list while maintaining that incredibly cumbersome table format). And no, while it isn't exactly "minor" to add an entirely new paragraph, I mark most of my less-than authoritative content (i.e. non-punctuation, non-spelling) edits as minor, regardless of length. Thus you have the liberty of deleting it entirely if justified (though I'm not certain you were in that case; the link was bad and was rightfully removed, but what else I had to say about "steampunk" works, I think, is legitimate enough, particularly since what is or isn't steampunk isn't currently an academic issue per se but rather one subject to popular culture). Ecthelion83 (talk) 19:54, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion for add?

Ronald W. Clark's 1967 work "Queen Victoria's Bomb"?

I think this should be included, though I have no experience in formatting it correctly, and would rather leave that to someone who wouldn't make a hash of it. :) thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Victoria's_Bomb

Suggestion for add

I'm not sure, but would Thomas Pynchon's novel Against the Day be considered steampunk? It takes place from the 1890's to the 1920's, but contains some anachronistic and fantasy elements. If anyone else has read it, I'm thinking mainly of the Chums of Chance scenes here, but I don't know if it truly qualifies as "steampunk" according to whatever definition you're using here. I'm new at this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.55.44 (talk) 23:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Recent additions to film

I just reverted several additions to the film section made on November 25 by Dumarestuk. No explanation was offered for these additions, and no references were provided indicating that they are relevant. This should be discussed before the titles are reinserted. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 19:30, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Sherlock Holmes (2009 film)

Is Sherlock Holmes truly a steampunk film? Nowhere in the WP article does it say so. The io9 article that is used to reference its place in this article mentions the word "steampunk" several times, but seems to use it as equivalent to Victorian, with all its talk about men wearing tweed and the beautiful London settings. But nothing about steam machines or interesting technology. Judging by this article, there seems to be nothing steampunk about this movie, despite the overuse of the word. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 19:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

• From what I understand, WoG was that it wasn't intended to be, but it obviously had steampunk elements in it regardless (the largest of which was the clockwork bomb near the end). Steampunk Chicago and Fiendish Delights called it steampunk, and Trial by Steam called it "slightly" steampunk. And add to that the io9 review. So my vote would be "yes".--Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 22:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Whether it "truly is" steampunk is an irrelevance. That would be a subjective judgement (there's no objective standard) and clearly falls foul of WP:OR. What we need instead is an indication that it has been perceived as steampunk by some credible external source. As the question is the crossover between a film and a genre, some comment from either of these directions is of relevance. As the long-included reference (amongst many other possibles) already states at length, this film has been widely embraced by the steampunks as being "a steampunk film". The film community has generally agreed too, even though there's also a well-reported quote from the producer that he didn't intend it to be steampunk. Despite that, if one significant group can be reliably sourced to describe the film as steampunk, then it's steampunk for our purposes. I shouldn't have to point out that WP is neither WP:RS, nor the non-existence of something on WP a reliable disproof of it. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't have thought so, but I suppose Dr M's moronic invention at the end could be considered a sort of victorian retro-future scifi, which is apparently close enough nowadays. APL (talk) 07:26, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The Three Musketeers (2011 film)

This movie has a load of steampunk elements to it, mainly the flying ships and all. I would think about adding that one in here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.159.0 (talk) 16:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Dude, then just add it, don't talk about it. I added it yesterday after being rather surprised it wasn't there. The quality of the movie is a little iffy (gotta like the outfits though), but it's solidly steampunk style. Nerfer (talk) 20:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Nausicaä

While there was a source provided for this, steampunk was only mentioned in a passing reference to "steampunk aircraft battles" as opposed to a clear assignment of genre, placing the film within the history of steampunk, or something else significant. Calling the flying warships "steampunk" is itself debatable, as they appear based more on 30s/40s aircraft and space opera than on anything roughly Victorian. McCarthy's book on Miyazaki places Laputa:Castle in the Sky in the tradition of Verne and Wells, but says nothing of the sort about Nausicaä, instead connecting it with Japanese and Greek folktales/mythology and Fast's Spartacus. Other sources I've looked at generally say nothing about Nausicaä and steampunk, or if they do, are blogs making other passing references. Ergative rlt (talk) 03:19, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Arcanum

What about "Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura"? I think that`s typical steampunk computer game. 62.89.119.252 (talk) 20:17, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows

This movie, which is slated to be released on 16 December 2011, is a sequel to the Sherlock Holmes (2009 film), which made it to this list. Will this film also be considered a Steampunk work? --Saukkomies ^talk 14:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Hard to say, since no one's seen it yet, but if they follow in the same vein as the previous one then it's likely. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 21:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Perfect Creature

This movie came out in 2007, and was the first movie I thought about when reading what Steampunk was. I didn't want to just add it without it being discussed first, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.183.203 (talk) 09:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

In literature: fiction & nonfiction?

Should we perhaps separate out a section of "In literature" to fiction and nonfiction? Nonfiction being meta works about steampunk, how-tos and the like. Such as Thomas Willeford's Gears, Gadgets and Gizmos? http://www.amazon.com/Steampunk-Gear-Gadgets-Gizmos-Artifacts/dp/0071762361 The Art of Steampunk, the Steampunk Bible, 1000 steampunk creations, etc. etc. etc. Centerone (talk) 05:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Talanas?

If someone can point me toward some evidence that the death metal band Talanas has taken up anything resembling a Steampunk aesthetic, I'd be ver interested, otherwise I don't see how they fit this list at all. Blackfyr (talk) 04:56, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

in music

I've expanded the "in music" section to include mainstream bands that have embraced the steampunk aesthetic in a video or concept album, since this is happening with increasing frequency. (And since the Wiki gods have deemed that "steampunk music" doesn't exist as a category...) I also changed the entry for Primus (questionable) to Les Claypool (who most definitely does embrace the aesthetic). --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 18:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

QUESTION: I know electro-swing bands like Parov Stelar and Caravan Palace are popular in steampunk circles. The goth swing band Lee Presson and the Nails is also quite popular on the US West Coast and has been headlining steampunk events in recent years. Should they be added to this category? --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

This article is a list of works, not artists. - tSR - Nth Man (talk) 03:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

WorldCat Genres

Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of steampunk-fiction. It might be useful to look at [4] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein (talk) 23:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

How indie can films be?

I haven't looked this over in any detail, but I noticed 'Forewarned' is a movie made by a non-profit company, directed by a 14-year-old kid, and as far as I can tell, shown in one movie theater - for free. I'm thinking some of the short films are not much different. Do we have any kind of limits on widely released a film should be in order to be included in this list? Nerfer (talk) 03:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it's a matter of indie verses corporate, or big budget verses small. As always on WP, it's a matter of notability. The standard for notability to be included in a list is less strict than the standard for something having its own article. And I think there's real value in including short films in this list.

That said, I'm not sure about Forewarned. Has it gotten any coverage besides "Local kid's project" type stories? The reference linked in the article doesn't really establish anything besides purely local notability. APL (talk) 06:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IX?

I think it is safe to assume that FFIX was very steampunk-ish. For example, Hilda Garde airships all used steam power to fly. I guess many other irrelevant machines used steam. Also, the whole game, to me, felt like a Steampunk work. Matter of opinion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.88.115.77 (talk) 10:14, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The Anubis Gates

According to Cheryl Morgan it seems that The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers belongs to the list: 12 Classic Steampunk Books Nikolas Ojala (talk) 02:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Considering it's a seminal steampunk work, I'm rather surprised it got missed. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 05:50, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

3 Items: Book, Game, and Movie series

1. Book - Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy novel and short stories (with 2 other novels written by Michael Kurland.) First written in 1964, this series encompasses a version of the British Isles where magic works according to specific rules. Science hasn't advanced much, and the tech is either magical, or steam-powered, with revolvers being the highest form of gun. Lord Darcy is an investigator assisted by a magician, who uses forensic spells. The series is basically a magical version of Sherlock Holmes, and has a definite steampunk/Victorian vibe. The dates of that alternate earth correspond to the publishing dates, but as I said, technology is of the steam era. [5]

2. Game - City of Steam: Arkadia www.cityofsteam.com As you can tell from the name, this free-to-play MMORPG is pure steampunk - from enemies like clockroaches and Mechanthrope Medusas, to steam-powered motorcycle mounts.

3. Movies - Tai-Chi Hero, Tai-Chi Zero, and a third one to be announced. If you look at the posters of the two released films, they are full of clockwork gears. Part of the plot involves a giant steam-powered railroad track-laying machine. 24.253.192.189 (talk) 01:20, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

I saw Tai-Chi Zero listed over at TV Tropes, and judging from the description and visuals of the poster, I agree it's very steampunk. It seems to be like "Steampunk meets Kung Fu Hustle". --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 10:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Again: Les Cites obscure, and some definitions

I'm saddened to see that Les Cités obscures is still not added to the graphic novel section. It's referred to as steampunk by its own article and outside sources. The article even once had an own section discussing its specific steampunk elements which was removed, obviously because somebody considered the series to be too 'highbrow' and sophisticated to be something as 'pulpish' as steampunk.

This whole thing is even more absurd when I see other items especially in the films section that clearly don't belong here because they're actually dieselpunk. Main culprits would be The City of Lost Children (1994; at least its main inspiration, Brazil, is not there even though stupid people keep calling it "steampunk", similar to another dieselpunk film thankfully absent here, Dark City) and Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (the article to Sky Captain even makes clear that it's dieselpunk, not steampunk). The Golden Compass is a bit of an iffy topic. On the one hand, the era it's set in or most alludes to (circa 1920s-1930s) seems to be closer to dieselpunk. On the other hand, the conceptual artist on that film was François Schuiten himself (see [6] on that), and he made dead sure to make it look like an adaptation of his 1988 Cites obscures album La route d'Armilia that's clearly more steampunk than the film that's closer to dieselpunk. The Prestige, at first glance, may appear a similar hybrid by taking place in the steampunk era but utilizing cinematographic film noir elements more typical of dieselpunk, but the setting eventually pretty solidly makes it steampunk.

Anyways, for a more in-depth discussion of strict definitions vs. "But many well-meaning idiots call it that!", see Talk:Brazil_(1985_film)#Steampunk. Dieselpunk is not a "sub-genre" of steampunk or vice versa. Both are simply two different sub-genres at the same level within the retro-futurism and/or alternate history genre. Steampunk and dieselpunk are sitting next to each other on the same hierarchical level within the retro-futurism/alternate history category, not one of the two "within" the other. Neither is any of the two really a cyberpunk "derivative" when it comes to their origins rather than their names.

Historically, the term cyberpunk was first back in the 80s, referring mostly to bleak, either dystopian and/or post-apocalyptic sci-fi (often with virtual reality and cyberspace themes), where "punk" at first referred to specific hacker and/or rebel gangs within these settings, and partly to how they were, in a "hacking" fashion, using technology of our time that had been crippled by the apocalypse. Then came steampunk pretty much in the 90s to retroactively and originally tongue-in-cheek refer to a genre that had been developing without a name already since the 50s or 60s (long before cyberpunk!) with nostalgic Technicolor epics such as George Pal's The Time Machine (1960), or novels such as Titus Alone (1959) and Queen Victoria's Bomb (1967), that nostalgically referred to Victorian and/or Edwardian settings with anachronistic, mostly futuristic technology and almost entirely lacked the dark, dystopian tone of cyberpunk as well as lots of its political overtones (there are notable exceptions when it comes to politics, though).

The only real connection to the cyberpunk genre was that technology played a big part in both genres (as it does in all sci-fi), with greater similarity between steampunk and post-apocalyptic cyberpunk because in both genres, said technology appeared anachronistic and/or outdated, either from the audience's POV or within the setting. However, the specific mix of anachronisms, nostalgia, generally more light-hearted tone, and retro-futurism pretty much from the beginning placed steampunk squarely in a genre wholly different from most cyberpunk, and that was and is within the retro-futuristic/alternate history genre. At the end of the day, the "punk" in steampunk refers simply to the technological anachronisms, not to particularly edgy and violent groups of lawbreakers as it did and does in cyberpunk.

And it was not before the early 2000s that the term dieselpunk emerged as a label for a genre definitely distinct from steampunk. Whereas steampunk specifically refers to futuristic/sci-fi themes within a Victorian or Edwardian, sometimes Regency setting (i. e. it references pretty much the so-called Long 19th Century covering roughly the period 1790s-1914), dieselpunk, recently also known as decodence for art deco, specifically references the era circa 1920s-1950s. Whereas steampunk began to develop roughly between the 50s-70s, dieselpunk as a nostalgic retro-futuristic genre was pretty much kickstarted in the 80s, particularly by the 1982 start of the Rocketeer comic and the release of Brazil in 1985. In other words, dieselpunk was around before even the label steampunk was, much less the label dieselpunk, which might have helped the current confusion that steampunk would be "anything dark with rusty metal in it" or "anything dark and retro-futuristic". Steampunk references (Long) 19th century art and design movements, such as art noveau, Fin de siècle, symbolism (arts), historicism (art), neoclassical architecture, Baroque Revival architecture, Scientific romance, Gothic fiction and Gothic Revival architecture, whereas dieselpunk references (early to mid-)20th century art and design movements, such as German expressionism, film noir, art deco, Streamline Moderne, Bauhaus, Brutalist architecture, Fascist architecture, and Stalinist architecture. People seem to keep confusing steampunk and dieselpunk just like they keep confusing floral and organic art noveau with urban, Streamline Modern-type art deco. With its German expressionism and film noir influences, dieselpunk aka decodence has always been generally darker in visuals and partly also in themes than overall steampunk, but even dieselpunk is far from being as dark, edgy, and (post-)apocalpytic as cyberpunk.

Further entries in the dieselpunk aka decodence genre that were heavily influenced by the two seeds of Rocketeer (1982) and Brazil (1985) include maybe the two Burton Batmans (1989 and 1992), definitely the 1991 film adaptation of Rocketeer, The City of Lost Children (1994), maybe The Hudsucker proxy (1994, it's obviously set in a gargantuan art deco/film noir/screwball comedy parallel world situated somewhere between the 1930s and the 1950s, with minor anachronistic references not because of being too futuristic for the era, but because some things are more like the 30s and others more like the 50s, but they never truly existed in parallel IRL as they do in the movie), definitely Dark City (1998) and Crimson Gate (c. 1998), partly at least Batman begins (2005), definitely Sky Captain (2004), the 2007 Argentinian film La Antena, and maybe even the 2013 adaptation of The Great Gatsby for its pulpish mix of nostalgia with modern cinematic style and music. The broadest definition of the dieselpunk genre may even include the animated Disney Afternoon series Tailspin (1990-1991) that also, while it's never outright mentioned, takes place in the late 30s while sometimes taking minor liberties with small anachronisms. As said, The Golden Compass (2007) is a special case for being pretty much a steampunk-dieselpunk hybrid for its connection to Les Cités obscures.

The idea behind both steampunk and dieselpunk is definitely the same and the two genres definitely share more similarities with each other (namely the themes of technological anachronisms, nostalgia, generally more light-hearted tone than cyberpunk, all within a retro-futuristic and/or alternate history setting) than any of them does with cyberpunk, but they are clearly two different concepts in what eras they specifically reference in contemporary everday design, architecture, technology, wardrobe fashions, language, art movements, lighting, editing, production design, etc.

A third relative on the same hierarchical level as steampunk and dieselpunk is clockpunk, referencing most eras prior to the Long 19th Century and defined by whether the emphasis is more on sci-fi, anachronistic technology, and/or alternate history rather than fantasy and the means (not necessarily the ends!) of technology are not too futuristic (which is why e. g. Stargate is not clockpunk). A notable early example of clockpunk would be Lest Darkness Fall (1939).

Phew! After this long educational rant, I should propose at least one more candidate for this steampunk list, and that's George Pal's 1960 adaptation of Wells's The Time Machine. I know the book is not steampunk because it lacks the nostalgic element (at the time, it was only futurist, not retro-futurist), but the film definitely is by its nostalgic references to the Victorian age. --87.180.197.207 (talk) 06:55, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

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Kate Elliot

Does Elliot's Cold Fire series merit inclusion on this list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.224.100 (talk) 02:14, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Porco Rosso

not to be nit-picky and sorry if this has already been covered but Porco Rosso is also not really in the steampunk genre and is definitely more dieselpunk I'd say — Preceding unsigned comment added by GilGameEsh1 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Possible removals-

Rose of Versailles is a flat-out historical revolutionary France series, and Space Battleship Yamato is a SF with some WW2 technology. Neither of these two should be on the list and I'd say there's a number of others that are questionable, like Snowpiercer. ZeroSD (talk) 00:00, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the unreliable sources tag

Dani Cavallaro's publications have been designated as generally unreliable sources in this discussion at the reliable sources noticeboard. Citations to her work can be replaced with more high-quality ones or removed, and the tag can be taken off once complete. Charcoal feather (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2024 (UTC)