Talk:Lionel Blair

I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue

I notice that there's no mention here of his frequent (virtual) appearances on I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue. Is there any record of his opinion on this? Doozy88 11:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

In reference to the question on Lionel Blair's attitude to the remarks on this:-

On 30 January 2011, during the Radio 4 show "Saturday Live" , hosted by Fi Glover, Blair said of the remarks on the show "My wife hates it" and that he had honestly never heard the remarks on the programme himself until now with the internet. Referring to the presenter (the recently deceased Humphrey Lyttelton) he added "People say you should always speak good of the dead. He's dead - good."

Chillinout (talk) 11:52, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Camp persona

This was (is?) the most striking and famous aspect of his media persona, yet no mention is made of it.

Why not?

He's quoted in this piece from RTE:

"His cheerful demeanour and enthusiastic manner led to jokes he was gay, and his sexuality was a running gag on Radio 4’s I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue. ... Blair said he largely ignored the jibes, but once sent a man to hospital after punching him when he called him a "fairy". ... And on claims he could be called camp, Blair said: "Camp? Really? I prefer 'flamboyant’, or ‘enthusiastic’. I’ve always been a bit over-the-top."

Martinevans123 (talk) 11:51, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

"Amazingly"?

"Lionel and wife Susan, celebrated their Ruby wedding anniversary in March 2007. Amazingly, they have three children and one grandchild." Why amazingly? Sah10406 (talk) 23:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

General edits/queries

Looking at the first paragraph under Career, I don't understand "Rep. In Ireland followed by London's West End." I don't want to edit without some (group) clarification. Also, under References, to what is the second footnote referring?Anyhoo (talk) 15:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

He didn't help deliver a baby

I was listening to "Saturday Live" this morning and Fi Glover said to Lionel she was impressed he had once helped deliver a baby. He said that was not true, he never had done. I dutifully came here to make sure it hadn't found its way into the wkp page, and luckily User:Gareth fr had removed the paragraph seconds earlier! Good work! --mcld (talk) 09:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Just checked, the fake fact was added by User:82.70.136.222 at 1. júní 2010 kl. 15:46. The only other contribution from that IP address was a hilarious extra fact added to Hugh Gaitskell (long ago removed) --mcld (talk) 09:19, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

ISIHAC reaction

I've cut the section about Blair disliking the ISIHAC gags and being glad that the show's presenter was dead, as it's only sourced to a WP:PRIMARY radio show interview. The background to the joke is sourced to the Guardian, but the source only mentions it in passing. Blair's reaction would need to have attracted wider press coverage to merit recording it here. --McGeddon (talk) 11:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

(mother's name given as Brenner on FreeBMD)

Lionel Blair would not be in FreeBMD because it only has people born in England and Wales. His sister Joyce is, with Greenbaum as her mother's surname. Ogus/Brenner children are probably from the Jack Ogus/Millie Brenner marriage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1388:10C:19A1:9961:C1F7:546B:1116 (talk) 06:43, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Surname

Why and when did he change hs surname to Blair? Headhitter (talk) 20:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Not directly answering your question but heading towards an answer: lots of web sites (including the BBC[1]) say he was born Henry Lionel Blair Ogus. Thincat (talk) 22:02, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah, and so did we until this edit which also removed the reference.[2] Thincat (talk) 22:11, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

On BBC's Today programme at 07:23 this morning Giles Brandreth, introduced as a friend of Blair, said his parents "came to London in 1930, changed their family name to Blair, his sister Joyce arrived in 1932 ...". At present the programme is still on air so no link yet to the archive. Thincat (talk) 08:54, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Brandreth has blogged this here. Thincat (talk) 09:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

& how, pray, does brandreth know this? does he pass wp verifiabilty criteria just by being a friend? it remains a mystery.

duncanrmi (talk) 12:32, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

His obituary in The Times today (behind a paywall) gives his birth name as Henry Lionel Ogus, and says “When he was two the family moved to London, where his younger sister, the actress Joyce Blair was born. The anti-semitism of the time generated by Sir Oswald Mosley’s fascist blackshirts led his father to change the family name.” so presumably the name was changed sometime when he was a toddler. — Arwel Parry (talk) 02:59, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

This source says: "He officially changed his name by deed poll to Lionel Blair in 1967. Shortly afterwards, he married wife Susan Davis." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Both of these claims about when his name changed could be correct (and I suspect they are). Thincat (talk) 09:45, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't know why I keep coming back to this. Using newspapers.com I find references to an actor called Lionel Blair playing a children's role in 1943 and then a dancer called Lionel Blair from as early as 1945. In 1958 I see "Joyce and Lionel Blair" listed as appearing on Sunday Night at the London Palladium (so I think this must definitely be the "right" Lionel Blair) and in 1960 there is a photograph of the two of them with Alma Cogan as he flies off to New York.[3] Thincat (talk) 16:46, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I would imagine he used that name from his very early, if not his earliest, stage appearances. I guess Equity would have a record of when and how he first registered as a actor? The official deed-poll change came only in 1967. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:25, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

War and Peace

[4] on this article, a possible error and how the press have copied it. Bondegezou (talk) 23:43, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

This was just a joke? It doesn't appear in the article. Not sure who has followed. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:10, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

It was in the article, I removed it shortly after seeing that tweet and looking at the editor's other contributions. It was copied by some news sources including The Guardian (now corrected) and The Mirror. the wub "?!" 18:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. I mean was the original Tweet just a joke? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

No, it was a journalist who happened to notice an unusual claim and actually do some digging. the wub "?!" 21:40, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I see. Thanks. No more to do here, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Place of death

Did anyone find where he died? theguardian tells, he died surrounded by his family, according to his management company. ~ Limited Idea4me (talk) 08:42, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

British?

Just a question here. Lionel Blair was previously listed as an English celebrity. Had his family moved to Scotland in the 1930s, would you then have listed him as a 'Scottish' or 'British' entertainer of Canadian birth? My guess is the former. Despite asymmetric national devolution and the racist White Celtic myth, still favoured by some in Scotland and Wales, Britain is a union of countries and consistency is clearly needed when writing about them. There is an appalling lack of logic on this site when it comes to UK sub-nationalities.

(86.175.187.145 (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC))

Sorry, I can't quite work out if Blair was part of the "White Celtic myth" or not. He's now "a Canadian-born British actor". As far as I know his family never move to Scotland. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Well he was of Jewish descent. His heritage was Russian-Jewish. 92.40.168.4 (talk) 20:55, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes he was. I think the article makes this pretty clear. I'd say "Canadian-born British" is a plain fact? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC) p.s. are you the same editor who opened this thread? Thanks.

Semi-protected edit request 6 November 2021

• “a national our of Who Killed Agatha Christie“. Maybe a national tour?
• His appearances in Miss World in 1969 and 1970 need either a cn tag or a source

2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:89DB:B0F4:4A0E:BB0A (talk) 21:09, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done clpo13_(talk) 22:37, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Tributes

Tributes from fellow performers are often included in articles for people who have died. I added just three, in the order of appearance in the source. But they were removed here with the edit summary "not an obituary". I'm not sure such a small addition warrants such draconian action. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:15, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

For a recent example, look at Sean Lock. Another is Charlie Watts, where the section is actually named "Death and tributes", etc., etc. That's how they appeared when linked at ITN/RD on Main Page. There were no complaints. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

So, Seasider53, would you care to respond? Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:49, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for interrupting the conversation with yourself. Let's not go down the "this is how other articles do it" route, but the Charlie Watts one, at least, doesn't include trite quotes (or any quotes, for that matter) from social media posts aimed primarily at karma-whoring. And the Sean Lock one should be discounted because you've worked on that one. I think just references for the "tributes", without the quotes, is fine (from what I've gleaned from other articles just now). Seasider53 (talk) 12:10, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

This isn't a "conversation with myself", thanks. It's an attempt to get consensus on what should be included here. I invite other editors to comment. If you have issues with those other articles, then I suggest you'd need to propose changes at the respective Talk pages. There are many more similar examples. I had assumed my addition here was "adding reasonable material to reflect the extensive media coverage" not "karma-whoring". I've edited both Sean Lock and Charlie Watts. I don't see why that precludes my offering them as comparable good examples. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Those articles you linked are fine; it was the quotes added to this one that seemed to go against the manual of style. Seasider53 (talk) 12:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

What does the MoS actually have to say on the matter? I didn't think that the 24 words of quotes I included were excessive. But perhaps it would be preferable to name more people who made tributes instead. Either way, I don't think wholesale deletion is fair. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:34, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

It’s happened when I’ve added tributes to articles (see here) – not a big deal. Seasider53 (talk) 12:39, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:NOTOBIT redirects to WP:MEMORIAL? So what exactly does that say about tributes?? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:30, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

No response? I propose the text should be restored, possibly slightly amended. 15:45, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Pub

During the mid 60's ran a pub in Falmouth - The Chain Locker Sadiesox (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any source or that? Are you sure it wasn't Shades nightclub? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Certain - was my local. Could have had his finger in the pie re Shades - right up his street . Sadiesox (talk) 18:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

We can't add anything unless you can provide some reliable written source that supports the claim. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC)