Talk:Labrys

untitled

the word etimon isn't in the OED, and google comes up with no english language hits. It doesn't seem to be an english word here. I therefore change it. Lethe 21:09, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

Ok, apparently the word is etymon, not etimon Lethe 21:11, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

the statement was wrong anyway. Neither is there a known 'minoan language', nor is it even remotely possible that the word has an etymological connection with "labia". dab 12:49, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

halbryce

this word only appeared on WP mirrors and on a few sites selling necklaces. do we have a source that says it means labrys, and where and when it was used? dab 13:06, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

pelekus

I'm sorry, Wetman, but pelekus (not pelekos) was the term for any axe, not necessarily double-headed at all. dab (ᛏ) 10:09, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

All I know is what I read: OED quotes Journal of Hellenic Studies XXI. 108 (1901): "It seems natural to interpret names of Carian sanctuaries like Labranda in the most literal sense as the place of the sacred labrys, which was the Lydian (or Carian) name for the Greek πέλεκυς, or double-edged axe." (Is that Arthur Evans being quoted, btw?) And Plutarch: "And having set up a statue of Zeus, he put the axe in his hand and called the god, "Labrandeus," labrys being the Lydian word for 'axe'. (Λυδοὶ γάρ ‘λάβρυν’ τὸν πέλεκυν ὀνομάζουσι." My error about "pelekos"! If these sources are misinformed, the entry would be improved with some disambiguation of the two axe terms. --Wetman 11:01, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You are right, it seems that the word indeed came to mean "double-axe" in particular. There was even a term hemipelekus for single-edged ones. It was however also used for "axe" in general. The word is cognate to Sanskrit parashu, which also seems to mean axe in general, but it is likely ultimately a loan from Sumerian balag (rather, who loaned whose word back in 4000 BC cannot now be established...) dab (ᛏ) 11:13, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The word with the Sanskrit cognate. being therefore the IE word, replacing labrys. You're competent to add a note: I'm not. Go for it. --Wetman 12:28, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

it's slightly more complicated than that. pelek'u- may have been a loan into the Proto-Indo-European language, as it is not identifiable as containing any known PIE root. It may be a neolithic "Wanderwort", referring to stone axes, that is also reflected in Sumerian, and it may have originally been a term for any axe, and only later, as an archaic word with ritual/sacrificial overtones been associated with the double-axe, that had similar archaic connotations. All this would probably all belong on a more general axe article, or maybe on a special pelekus article, but I agree with your reference to the word now. dab (ᛏ) 13:14, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)