Talk:Half note

Etymology of "Minim"?

Somebody recently added to the article that "given that it is written with a downward stroke, it [i.e. the term "minim"] possibly evolved in the same context as minim (palaeography)." -- I rather doubt this suggestion, since

1. There is a perfectly plausible explanation of the term as being from Lat. "minima"="small", as the minim was indeed at one stage the smallest of all note values used (see Mensural notation for details);
2. Minims were not usually written with a downward stroke, but with an upward stroke;
3. And even if they were, they don't bear any particular resemblance to the paleographic minim style.

As no source is currently given for this suggestion, I am deleting it for the time being, but please feel free to re-introduce it if you have evidence. Lukas 23:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

That was me, and no, I don't exactly have evidence. The word definitely comes from Latin minimus (-a, -um); the question is just whether the musical use evolved separately from or together with the paleographical use. The OED gives these as two meanings of the same word, rather than as two separate words, which suggests they evolved in parallel, and the co-incidence that we have two graphic signs, one for music and one for text, both involving vertical lines and both called minims makes me as a linguist with a lot of experience in etymology suspect a linked rather than a separate derivation. But without going back to the sources (which would be original research and anyway I don't have the time) that is not evidence. On that basis, perhaps it shouldn't be in the article - readers who are really interested will find this discussion on the talk page. --Doric Loon 16:57, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay. In fact, I should have added right away that there's little sense in speculating how the musical concept "evolved": It was invented, and we know pretty well by whom and when and why, as it's all accounted for in the theoretical writings by the medieval creators themselves. As for the handwriting-minim, I'm not so sure; the current article on Minim (palaeography) is in deplorable shape. Lukas 17:36, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Not anymore (I hope!). Adam Bishop 19:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU!

Thank you for posting this page. It has really helped me to write music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.101.167 (talk) 03:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

What's wrong with classical terminology?

This has probably come up before but why does Wikipedia not use the standard classical terminology (minim, crotchet, etc) as standard? I have never heard of a "Half note" before. Surely the classical terminology is more common to all English speaking countries than the American or German? I'm well familiar with the Wikipedia policy on American vs British terms - when it's just a matter of taste, first past the post wins - but surely in this case there is a case for minim being a better title for this article as it is the actual classical term and not purely a localised styling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.154.33.122 (talk) 12:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A bit of a late reply, but I too was wondering this. It seems rather odd to label these notes as "half notes" and "whole notes" etc, when the custom for the majority of English-speaking countries is to call them by their, dare I say it, proper names (semibreve/minim respectively). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.179.171 (talk) 13:13, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the "half note, whole note etc." terminology is used in North America, and nearly 3 in 4 native English speakers live in North America. Furthermore, the German language uses the "American" terminology rather than the "classical" terminology, which means that a whole host of great composers including J.S. Bach, W.A. Mozart, L.V. Beethoven, F.J. Haydn, J. Brahms, R. Schumann, F. Schubert, A. Schoenberg, and R. Wagner, among others, didn't use the so-called "classical" terminology at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.23.246.6 (talk) 00:45, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

At least we got to "bar" first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.110.108 (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

• Belated response to unsigned IP 217.154.33.122 ... What country are you from? In the USA, the standard note lengths are whole note, half note, quarter note, etc. Music students in America are informed about the British terms. Are you from a country where the American names aren't even mentioned? --Uncle Ed (talk) 20:08, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Unicode

I noticed that both eighth note and quarter note include a unicode symbol for the notes. Is there also a unicode half note symbol that could be added to this article? (Also, for the whole note article?)67.128.143.196 (talk) 23:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Half a Whole?

The intro states:

In music, a half note (American) or minim (British) is a note played for half the duration of a whole note (or semibreve) and twice the duration of a quarter note (or crotchet). In time signatures with a denominator of 4, such as 4/4 or 3/4 time, the half note is two beats long.

But in 3/4 time, the duration isn't half the duration of a whole note, right? Not sure how to re-write it without making it more complex than it already is, but I think it should make note of the exceptions.

How about (change emphasized):

In music, a half note (American) or minim (British) is a note played for half the duration of a whole note (or semibreve) for most time signatures and twice the duration of a quarter note (or crotchet). In time signatures with a denominator of 4, such as 4/4 or 3/4 time, the half note is two beats long.

MeekMark (talk) 01:57, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd love for the article to explain when and where a half note gets other than 2 beats - or a whole note gets other than 4 beats. I'm aware that there are two "sideways black rectangle" rests (one gets two beats no matter what; the other gets as many beats as are in the measure). --Uncle Ed (talk) 20:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Simple answer: a half note only gets 2 beats when the beat is a quarter note (the denominator of the time signature is 4). I have corrected the article, as it was apparently still wrong after almost five years. Take

for example. The denominator is 2, so the half-note gets the beat, and there are three beats in each measure (not six). However, a half note is always half the length of a whole note (as shown in the second measure). (This is not always true of the rests, since a whole rest can always be used to fill an entire measure – although in meters like 4/2, it may be better to use a breve rest, or at least write "1" over the whole rest if one is used.) Double sharp (talk) 14:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Additional citations

Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 03:32, 18 February 2012 (UTC)