Talk:Doug Ford

Controversial decision on the private colleges

I suggest including the section below in the main text. This is a neutral posting that reflects the current situation with colleges in Ontario as many private colleges will collapse soon after the restriction imposed on the private education business. I am not a businessman and I do not work in a college.

On March 27, 2024, the Government of Ontario, led by Doug Ford, made an unexpected decision that may have a huge negative impact on the entire educational system of the province leading to the bankruptcy of many private colleges. It was announced that the private colleges will not receive any international study permits as 96% of spots will be allocated to public colleges and universities while the remaining 4% of international students may be allowed to study in some private universities and language schools. The decision to eliminate a "low-quality education" in the Province of Ontario is controversial as a "low-quality education" cannot be generalized to all private colleges of Ontario. Moreover, so-called "low-quality education" allegedly practiced by private colleges implies complete discrimination against domestic students because of the (allegedly) lower standards of education. The real issue that led to such a controversial decision is the conflict of interests between public and private colleges. This decision leads to a monopolization of the educational system and complete predomination of the public colleges. Nomonopolyofeducation (talk) 17:04, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with quality of education. Unfortunately, Canada is the country where the most educated and talented people with MSc and PhD degrees cannot find jobs according to their skills and qualifications. So, any private college in Canada can easily find and hire highly qualified specialists with MSc and PhD degrees for teaching positions. Therefore, poor quality of education is just an excuse. What we actually see is that the large business of public colleges expels the small business of private colleges. Observateur Canadien (talk) 00:31, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The shares in all public or community colleges of Canada largely belong to the big private businesses that, of course, may not be interested in competing with small private colleges. When tons of dollars are involved the scale of business becomes too attractive for influential tycoons as millions of international students entering Canada must pay their very expensive tuition fees. This is the only sound answer, which explains the preplanned collapse of many private colleges in Ontario. It was a corporate lobbying that convinced the Ontario Government to exclude private career colleges from the business. The small private colleges are outsiders now and this monopolization is idiomatically saying "riding the gravy train" for the richest private shareholders of the public colleges. Snowflake Enneagram (talk) 15:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Public colleges are by definition, owned publicly, by governments, recognized by the Crown, not corporate entities. Alaney2k (talk) 17:48, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

This is incorrect. Public colleges and universities in Canada are owned by the Government and by public entities. And this decision is a big problem known as a CONFLICT OF INTEREST! Nobody wants to share big money with smaller competitors and the easiest way to remove the competitors is to put private colleges out of business. Very far away. Snowflake Enneagram (talk) 19:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that corporate lobbying could be behind the scenes. However, the problems with private career colleges came from the earlier decision. A few years ago, the Ontario Government, led by Doug Ford, canceled the post-graduation work permit (PGWP) for all private carrier colleges in the province. That mistaken decision has had caused already many problems in the educational system of the province and badly damaged the reputation of the private career colleges.

Almost all international students in Canada are interested in applying for the Post Graduate Work Permit (PGWP) after completion of their Diploma Programs. As the private carrier colleges could not offer the PGWP, many international students, soon after registration in the private colleges, were interested in transferring their documents to the public colleges. By law, if students have been enrolled, the private career colleges can refuse a tuition fee refund as they have to pay salaries and rent. Many students, who could not get their refunds back, were unhappy and they unfairly or falsely reported to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) and the Ministry of Education about the so-called poor quality of education or, sometimes, even cheating with refunds. So, the “poor quality of education” was used as an excuse to transfer to public colleges as the students could not report to IRCC that their actual aim was to get the PGWP. Many private colleges in America, Europe, and Australia provide high-quality education to international students. However, only Ontario where any private college can easily hire highly qualified and highly educated teachers with MSc and PhD degrees "cannot" provide a good quality of education. This problem in the educational system of Ontario was created by the decision of the Ontario Government, which canceled the PGWP status and the recent decision only worsened the educational system in the province. I cannot say that this was done on purpose by corporate lobbyists holding their shares in public colleges to weaken the reputation of the private colleges. However, if Doug Ford is willing to recover the reputation of the private career colleges in the province, the government of Ontario should return the PGWP status to the private career colleges and allow international students to study in the private career colleges. And this should be done as soon as possible. Observateur Canadien (talk) 23:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Neutral tone means the a reader cannot tell what position the writer takes on a topic. You need to re-write the suggested text in order to reflect that. Also, you need a reliable source that supports the text. TFD (talk) 17:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a platform for political advocacy. Please also see Wikipedia:Righting great wrongs. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

The suggested section is neutral and not used as a platform for political advocacy. It only states the negative impacts to the educational system of Ontario that are cased by this decision. Nomonopolyofeducation (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

The section I proposed is neutral and it does not criticize Doug Ford's government. It only states the real facts and issues in the educational system of Ontario that are caused by this decision. As far as a reliable source is concerned, this article supports the proposed section:

"New Ontario rules to deny private colleges international students will wipe out their partnerships, killing jobs and ending a lucrative source of income for public colleges, experts and advocates say.

They're going to have to make some very difficult financial decisions. They’re going to have to do some restructuring. There are large administrative questions — where that lands is not going to be a good place,” said University of Toronto education Prof. Glen Jones, an expert in post-secondary policy."

As we know, any kind of monopolization is illegal in USA and Canada. This decision certainly creates a monopolization of the educational system of Ontario by public colleges and we should say something about it. Nomonopolyofeducation (talk) 18:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I think there is a basic misunderstanding here of what Wikipedia is and is not. Speculation is out, opinion is out. It's not a place for any kind of advocacy - commercial, political, any. It's not the news, but events are covered. An article about private education in Ontario could include information about quotas and changes in immigration policy. It could include noting opposition to changes, as long as it is attributed to a specific person or media outlet that is secondary to the cause. That's about the only place it -could- be appropriate to discuss views on a topic that has politics attached. Alaney2k (talk) 17:48, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

The suggested section is not speculative. It does not advocate Doug Ford's decision and it does not advocate the private colleges. An article or a small section in Wikipedia about private education in Ontario could include not only information about quotas and changes in immigration policy but also any topic related to education. Wikipedia is media without restrictions and meaningless directives like what is allowed and what is not allowed. The section proposed above is neutral and appropriate. Snowflake Enneagram (talk) 19:30, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd suggest trying to add such content to Education in Ontario, which has already has some content about the student visa caps... but it could be fleshed out more. There isn't a really a direct connection to this and Doug Ford as far as I can tell, so I don't think it'd be relevant to add such content to this article. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:37, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Also, Wikipedia does actually have restrictions on what is and is not allowed. I realize that these things aren't necessarily immediately obvious, Snowflake Enneagram, but feel free to ask me questions in the future if you're confused. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:42, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

References

Possible content gaps

I don't see anything about the political scandals surrounding ServiceOntario and Ontario Science Centre/Ontario Place. I think content could easily be written to cover this but I'm not sure where it would fit best. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I know it's late, but I found out that there is another article about the premiership of Doug Ford. Maybe it can added there. 137a (talk • edits) 04:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Add A Fact: "RCMP investigates Ford government's decision"

I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

The RCMP's investigation was triggered after two watchdog reports last summer into the Ford government's decision

The fact comes from the following source:

https://globalnews.ca/toronto/

Here is a wikitext snippet to use as a reference:

 {{Cite web |title=Toronto News {{!}} Weather & Traffic - Sports {{!}} Breaking News |url=https://globalnews.ca/toronto/ |website=Global News |access-date=2024-08-10 |language=en-US |quote=The RCMP's investigation was triggered after two watchdog reports last summer into the Ford government's decision}} 

Additional comments from user: maybe relevant?

This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.

– SJ  11:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

not used in article yet?ProfGray (talk) 17:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Nothing about his decision on bike lanes?

There are many RS available about this decision to restrict bike lanes. Which section should this placed in? Same thing with the Science Centre stuff. 137a (talk • edits) 13:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

That subject is better suited for Premiership of Doug Ford. PKT(alk) 17:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)