Talk:BSicon/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Names and descriptions

moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/junctions

1) Is there an existing public reason why two different roots are used in what appear to be variants of the same picture:

(ABZgl r) (uABZlfg) ?

2) Why has BS-anleitung2u appeared in the list when it seems only to exist in fewer than a handful of WP articles which seem to be either work in progress or, judging by by the undisplayed characters, of oriental provenance.

3) A majority of descriptions of icons seem of no great benefit. "As displayed" would suffice and avoid convoluted wording and such unidiomatic wording as "to down".

4) If purists abominate the mnemonic 'a"q"ross' the meaning of q, unguessable by Anglophones, should be shown in the head of the article.

5) After all these icons are only a means to a very peculiar end: that of drawing blocky line diagrams in WP articles.--SilasW (talk) 10:50, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The root ABZlfg has a major disadvantage: We have three objects with two colors each, i.e. eight possibilities, but with prefix "e" and "x" we catch only four, thus we need a root that allows to insert another "x" at certain places. My goal is to have "speaking" names. I always have to check which version of ABZld or ABZ_ld I need 'cause those icons are named at random. Since my main focus is on heavy rail, light rail always lags behind ...
I use the BS-anleitung2u whenever the heavy rail icons have been substituted, but the light rail icons haven't yet. Once all icons are reasonably named, this template can be deleted ...
Whatever you like :)
I don't insist on the writing "aqross", I always tried to have an English translation for any pre-/suffix originally introduced in German-WP, and I had no better idea to motivate the "q" in English (German "quer" is completely different to English "queer" ;-)
... and many people seemingly like to waste their time doing so :) axp_de ^Hello! 13:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

What's the difference between "ABZgl l" and "ABZld", "ABZgr r" and "ABZrd", "ABZa" and "ABZq lr", "ABZe" and "ABZqlr"? If the difference is just in thickness, then why are we using two sets instead of just one, and which naming system are we going to stick to? No News ! 10:15, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

"ABZgl l", "ABZgr r", "ABZq lr" and "ABZqlr" are the new and consistently named version of "ABZld", "ABZrd", "ABZa" and "ABZe". While fixing the names I also corrected the width of the branching tracks, which were only 75px instead of the standard 100px.

"ABZa" and "ABZe" have already been eliminated from entire scope, and I already started to exchange "ABZld" and "ABZrd", but it's a hunchback full of work :( axp_de ^Hello! 09:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

You can actually upload a new version of the image, and then request for renaming by adding the {{rename|NEW NAME|REASON|category=BSicon images requiring renaming}} tag to the image, such that it will show up on the renaming category in Commons. By uploading a new image and deleting the old one may somehow "discredit" the previous authors. Thanks for the clarification. No News ! 01:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I know about file history and so on, but to be honest, most icons I have eliminated had been just inkscape variations of existing icons, there is not really much "work" to credit ... I started coding new icons by using a plain editor, to get small, lean, fast and simple vector graphics, that's quite some work I can tell you! Others joined and we had fun to create the smallest but still {{ValidSVG}}s!

Another reason for uploading a new & newly named icon: It's easier to exchange them while both are existing files. The toolserver has problems to determine "used" icons that doesn't "exist" (resp. just being a redirect ... ;-) axp_de ^Hello! 10:47, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

1) Replaced with

(uABZgl r).
4) quarter turn (i.e. 90° rotation). Useddenim (talk) 00:19, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Icon name query

moved to Talk:BSicon/Renaming#Icon name query

New replacement bot?

moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template

Given the backlog of BSicons with old names that still exist as redirects, I think it's a good idea to make a bot that patrols all BSicon usages and does the following:

Using a generated list of all BSicon redirects on Commons, produce an equivalency table.
Patrol all BSIcon templates and replace as necessary using the above table
Any redlinked BSIcons are listed on a page for manual fixing.

I don't know how to write a bot, so do you think this should be done? — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 18:58, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Bility wrote this script to catch newly-uploaded (i.e. within the last 7 days) BSicon_*.svg files, which may be useful. Useddenim (talk) 21:34, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

How does one use that script? — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 23:36, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

You add this code to your Commons .js. It will add a link called "BS icon check" in your toolbox (when you're on your user page) to check for changes in the upload log for the last seven days. It creates an alert with the list of files in wikicode so you can copy/paste it somewhere and show preview for a list of links. It excludes uploads to an existing file, so only newly uploaded files will be in the list. It takes a while to run, about a minute and half or so. (For the full discussion, see Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 43#Commons upload notification. Useddenim (talk) 00:40, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm trying to get this into my enwiki account, but I can't seem to importscript interwiki. — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 02:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, now you're wa-a-a-ay out of my area of expertise. All I can suggest is that you contact Bility directly for help. Useddenim (talk) 22:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Local files

moved from User talk:Axpde/Archive 3#Found some icons...

I am going through all en-Category:All_free_media (looking for chemical structures to categorise), and I found some BS icons there - not sure if they have any equivalents to commons one. If I had some time, I might look for them, but tracking the chemical ones is taking some time for now... Anyway, you can see them with this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:All_free_media&from=BSHS.png Ronhjones ^(Talk) 22:29, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying, some BSicons fill gaps in our collections, other are quite insane ... have to have a settled view on them. Regards axp_de ^Hello! 20:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template

I had a several month-old list of BSicons that are local, not on Commons. Some seem to be unneeded and can be done with overlays. Could somebody process the list? Struck-out ones are fixed. — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 19:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

This is also being discussed at en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations#Why doesn't anyone update the chart to include available icons?. Useddenim (talk) 21:30, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

moved to Talk:BSicon/Templates#Synchronize!

Speaking of local files, my page User:Circeus/BSicon_renaming has stats on local icons. Circeus (talk) 02:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Redlinks

moved to Talk:BSicon/Templates#Redlinks

Table in legend breaks BS-templates?

moved to Talk:BSicon/Templates#Table in legend breaks BS-templates?

New overlap template {{BS-o}}

moved from Talk:BSicon/Renaming#More_bad_names.E2.80.A6

moved to Talk:BSicon/Templates#New overlap template_.7B.7BBS-o.7D.7D

different elevated marker

moved to Talk:BSicon/Icon_geometry_and_SVG_code_neatness#different_elevated_marker

Use of LUECKE

Copied from en:User talk:Mattbuck#Template:Reading to Taunton Line diagram

It's the same line, so should be (LUECKE), not (CONTf). Useddenim (talk) 15:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

First off, one is listed as GWML, the other as B2E, so it's not the same line. Even if it were, LUECKE is for bits that aren't relevant for some reason, but is a continuous line. They should be complete and at maximum about 5 long. Any longer, use arrows. -mattbuck (Talk) 19:32, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Is there some en:Wikipedia policy about LUECKEs, or is that merely your opinion? Useddenim (talk) 20:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

It has been the way I've seen things done over the past several years, and it's a way that makes sense. Note how the LUECKE's ends are in the middle of circles - it's not meant to be be "line continues in this direction", it's meant to indicate "this section is beyond the purview of this diagram, but has some relevance". The LUECKE between Paddington and Reading is a perfect example of this - it explains the 0 point of the line, but that section is not actually part of the line and so is ignored, but the link is shown. -mattbuck (Talk) 22:08, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

en:Template:Argyle Line, en:Template:Cumbernauld Line, en:Template:Dalry and North Johnstone Line and en:Template:Metromover are some examples to the contrary. I think it's a matter of context, not a hard and fast rule. Useddenim (talk) 10:45, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, there are no real rules about it, but to me it makes more sense this way. -mattbuck (Talk) 18:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

The convention that I've been following is that if a line/route diverges from the subject of the RDT and then rejoins, then I use LUECKE, otherwise CONT. On the Reading to Taunton RDT it specifically calls out "Great Western Main Line to Taunton via Bristol" and "Bristol to Exeter Line" – both of which are main lines that connect end-to-end in a major city – and IMHO was significant enough to be connected with

(LUECKE). (But then, I should probably ask, "Which is the main route between Paddington and Taunton? Via Reading or Bristol?") Admittedly, this is a boderline case, but that's why I made the choice in this particular instance . Useddenim (talk)

The convention I've kept to with all the line maps I create is that LUECKE is for short stretches of irrelevant but connected track, where you don't want to include features. Maybe we should take this to WT:UKRAIL or something. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Track shared by heavy and light rail trains

Moved from en: Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms

I wish to know what convention would be used for showing tracks shared by both heavy and light rail trains.

For instance, I found the pictogram chart for North London Line and District Line use LUECKE icons to indicate sections shared by other types of trains, while the pictogram chart for Metropolitan Line does not (somewhat inaccurate because it shares tracks with NR north of Harrow on the Hill). In addition, Tyne and Wear Metro omits heavy rail entirely.

I am trying to write en:Watford DC Line in Chinese, and I wish to test how the pictogram chart could be improved (Please find the English version and the Chinese counterpart for references). I found that if I use LUECKE icons to show sections served by the Bakerloo (seems better than just throwing a bunch of interchange icons in), there might be not enough LUECKE icons to show more complex layouts, but I also believe I might be overdesigning (though, as the Network Rail track diagrams are public, it is somewhat well referenced).

Please kindly advise on the matter, thanks.

-- Patrickov (talk) 04:13, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

(uLUECKE※ STR) seems to work fine. If you need an icon that doesn't exist (yet), just ask. 8-) Useddenim (talk) 10:58, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Maybe a uLUECKE version of

(vBS2l) and / or (vBS2 l) might suffice. -- Patrickov (talk) 16:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Done: (uvLBS2l), (uvLBS2 l). Useddenim (talk) 22:10, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for your kind help! -- Patrickov (talk) 01:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

AlgaeGraphix?

Where’s our very own AlgaeGraphix? We need more of his stuff! -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Been traveling out of town. I will have to figure a way of closing the interval between 21 November and 8 December. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 13:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

(Welcome back.) Need help? -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:06, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Sure. I tried to modify the original script (here), but it didn't work. Ideally, I'd like it to have a dialogue box that defaults to "last 7 days" but will allow the input of any date range. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, this seems to be beyond my (current) abilities. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

where to talk?

Can someone define where we talk?
Recently, I talked here, but indirectly I understood talk about BSicon is everywhere.
So let's completify the list:

Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests
Talk:BSicon/Categorization
Talk:BSicon/Renaming
Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness (oops forgot this one)

-DePiep (talk) 22:44, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

And this should solve it all.

Talk:BSicon -DePiep (talk) 23:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Try this list instead: Talk:BSicon#Talk_pages -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

KRWÜr

I've though of a slight curved icon that could be used in railway

(KRWÜr)

--ò ѓ ё ў ҷ ю̌ ı̄ 02:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

No, it cannot be used. Sorry. It doesn’t match any useful combination with the previous and next rows, even using staggered icon rows, and combinations of

(c) and

(d), and of single, double, and edge tracks. (See here →.)

But, do you wanna create icons that are needed and useful? Great — check what is missing, and go ahead:

Here you can see that we have no blue versions of (CUTlf), and that we’re missing the light blue variant of (DAMMlf) — and many such others down the page.
Here you can see how we lack pale blue and both red versions of tunnel and elevated line end loops and most combinations of 4- and 5-way branches and junctions.
Over here there are a few missing grey (ex) variations of the black icons.
Among station icons there are more misses than hits, and even more so among road icons.

These were not created because they were not needed so far. But to these example icon sets above we routinely need to add one more analogous combination almost everyday as we create diagrams for projects (e.g., yesterday I needed six new icons just for a few fixes here). If you want/like to create icons (and that is great fun, I agree), then better do create ones that are likely to be used than to add to the set barely used colors or impossible geometries. -- Tuválkin ✉ 08:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Oy vey! This is just wrong in so many ways…

it’s not a KRW icon;
there’s no Ü suffix
it doesn’t connect to/from the right;
the path doesn’t align with any existing icons.

Other than reclassifying it to Category:Icons for railway descriptions/delete candidate, I don’t know what to do.

Also, I noticed that the majority of your image uploads aren't vector images, and almost one-third are “Random” – this is not particularly useful. As Tuvalkin suggested above, there are many useful things that can be done help the Wikipedia projects. Useddenim (talk) 13:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Unrelated KL icons

I moved this off from Category:Icons_for_railway_descriptions/stations_and_stops, because it doesnt work with with BS-templates.

Icons for the Wikivoyage article about the Public Transport in Kuala Lumpur

Category:Icons for railway descriptions/RapidKL

Any thoughts? -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

It's ok. I am not familiar with Commons because just moved from our shared: repositorium. Haven't been sure how to sort this stuff. I created these icons a while ago for and article about RapidKL. I did not know about the BS-templates. Just a sub category is fine. Just thinking about to rewrite the article and use your icons but i have to place 3 train lines in one article.... Thanks for correcting. -- Der Fussi 11:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Used also in voy:de:Haifa#Karmelit_.28Carmelit.29. -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin: The cat should be named differently, those icons are no BSicons and shouldn't be categorized in our cat-tree. a×p_de ^Hello! 18:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

That’s one of the things I was about to add to this discussion. However, kindly note that I didn’t change anything in the category itself (yet), just moved that bit of text here to be discussed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Any idea about the name? You are more familiar with the categories here. -- Der Fussi

This topic was left unresolved for a while but, unlike others, it doesn't seem to be a hard nut to crack. I see a few issues, all of them with trivial solutions:

Filename preffix: To be able to use these with the BSicon diagram-building templates (and thus with its thousands of ready made icons and all its accumalated knowledge), the filenames needs to start with "BSicon_".
Design: A few design details would have to be changed to match exactly the practice used in BSicons:
1. Thickness of the track to 20% of icon height — cp. (STRq) with File:Icon Line E65F86.svg (Icon Line E65F86.svg)
2. Station disc size; as it is now, (BHFq) > File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR.svg (Icon Line E65F86 Station LR.svg) > (HSTq). It should be changed to match one of the existing sizes.
3. The design of icon File:Icon Line F7A11A Switch R.svg (Icon Line F7A11A Switch R.svg) should be altered to match (SPLaq).
4. “Tower” stations should not have a white/transparent gap where the two colors meet — cp. File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing 9B4908 TB.svg (Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing 9B4908 TB.svg) with (mTINT) ^{edited: mTBHFu}.
5. Specific color shades could be changed to match any of the existing sets, where they'd be either additions or duplicates.
Filenames: It is desireable that these mostly typical topologies be renamed to match the already existing icons — e.g. File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station R.svg (Icon Line 9B4908 Station R.svg) akin to (KBHFl) or (KBHFl green).

I suppose that the original uploader is agreeable with (most of) these changes. Once there’s agreement on the details, these icons can be altered and renamed and add synergy to both the BSicon system and the specific use they have met so far. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:18, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

About 2.4., I thought about adding bridge “brackets”, as in

(mTBHFu) vs.

(mTBHFo), but some of the more unusual bicolor icons do without them (as they are typically used in diagrams not covering such details); The specific Kuala Lumpur diagrams could perhaps fare batter with a

(xtTINTt) style solution — input is necessary, but both solutions can be (and have been) depicted in (separate) icons. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:29, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Meanwhile I found this — meaning that these names follow a pattern that, even if we integrate the icons in the BS realm, needs to be set via a special set of redirects. Not an impossible task. -- Tuválkin ✉ 06:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Before commiting too much work into attaining precise color matches, it sould be noted that the originals above are not unchangeabble ideals. On the contrary, one incompatibility can be found from the page, as the orange icons are supposed to match the pale green one (File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR Crossing D0C321 TB.svg): cf. the ST5/KJ13 Masjid Jamek interchange. Therefore in the table above pale green and orange are bundled for the purposes of equivalence.

Also, pls check the following diagrams to compare ho much the chosen shades, even colors, do not match actual real world usage:

-- Tuválkin ✉ 08:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Compare also with this apparently official map: While Kelana Jaya Line seems to be indeed pink (and therefore arguebly fitting our ), Ampang Line seem to be really yellow (matching our ), and not the orange (and pale green) used in the Wikivoyage page; there seems to be no good reason to chose brown for the Monorail though, shown instead as dark blue in this map. -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
This other map of a local hotel shows wine-red for Kelana Jaya and purple for the monorail; Ampang stays yellow.
Yet another local map gives orange for Ampang, confirms pink for Kelana Jaya, and shows a light blue monorail…

-- Tuválkin ✉ 09:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Suggested BSicon equivalents

original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent	original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent	original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent
File:Icon Line Empty small.svg	(`c`)	File:Icon Line Empty.svg	(`d`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Switch R.svg	(`SPLaq(yellow)`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 small.svg	(`cSTRq brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 small.svg	(`excSTRq`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A small.svg	(`cSTRq yellow`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908.svg	(`dSTRq brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86.svg	(`exdSTRq`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A.svg	(`dSTRq yellow`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station L.svg	(`KBHFr brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 Station L.svg	(`exKBHFr`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station L.svg	(`KBHFr yellow`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station R.svg	(`KBHFl brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 Station R.svg	(`exKBHFl`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station R.svg	(`KBHFl yellow`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station LR.svg	(`BHFq brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR.svg	(`exBHFq`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR.svg	(`BHFq yellow`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station R Crossing E65F86 TB.svg	(`xmKTINTl brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR Crossing 9B4908 T.svg	(`xmKTINTeq brown`)	File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station L Crossing F7A11A TB.svg	(`mKTINTr yellow brown`)
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station LR Crossing E65F86 TB.svg	(`xmTINT brown`)	File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR Crossing 9B4908 TB.svg	(`xmTINTq brown`)	File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station LR Crossing F7A11A TB.svg	(`mTINT yellow brown`)
File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing 9B4908 T.svg	(`mKTINTe brown yellow`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing E65F86 TB.svg	(`xmTINT(yellow)`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing 9B4908 TB.svg	(`mTINT brown yellow`)
		File:Icon Line E65F86 Station LR Crossing D0C321 TB.svg	(`xmTINTq(yellow)`)	File:Icon Line F7A11A Station LR Crossing 1B00EC TB.svg	(`umTINT(yellow)`)
original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent	original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent	original icon	suggested BSicon equivalent

Some more suggestions. Maybe we don't need to create a brown colored set of icons ... a×p_de ^Hello! 11:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

No, we don’t need to create «a brown colored set of icons» — because we already have ~~three~~ four (U5, Fukutoshin, 71592E, and Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set brown). What we have to do first is to decide what color should the KL monorail be iullustrated with (brown, purple, blue?), as you’d know if you had read the discussion. -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

(TokyoFukutoshin) – this looks to be the closest match
File:Icon Line 9B4908 Station LR.svg – KL icon

(BHF brown)
(uBHF BlnU5)
(BHF 71592E)

Useddenim (talk) 12:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Closest match, okay, by why match what seems to have been made up from thin air, based on what different maps show? Better ask the original uploader’s input. -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile the brown set was standartized and some of its contents were added above. Should the editors find that another color(s) suits best the intended use, recolored icons could be routinely created, or pointed to. -- Tuválkin ✉ 06:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Icons details

removed from User talk:Useddenim

Topics moved to:

New icons

moved to Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests

New Split level icons

Moved to Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests#New Split level icons.

Gallery page

This desperately needs to be cleaned up and updated. Useddenim (talk) 15:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does. I cringe every time I see how outdated it become. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:53, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:BS!

moved to: Talk:BSicon/Templates#Template:BS!

Icons for railway descriptions/set green

Removed to Talk:BSicon/Categorization.

TUNNELql

moved from: User talk:Axpde#TUNNELql

Somehow you managed to delete (TUNNELql) as "unused BSicon, superseded by overlay ability", while it is still used at en:Template:Brussels metro line 1 RDT and en:Template:Brussels metro line 5 RDT. Could you please update those pages with the intended overlay pair? (I can only guess how that icon looked like.) YLSS (talk) 20:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Umf, four more. YLSS (talk) 20:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Do it fast, too. -- Tuválkin ✉ 22:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It was a duplicate of

(TUNNELlu), but that's no excuse for not leaving a redirect! Useddenim (talk) 22:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Which should really be called (TUNNELl) to match

(TUNNELa) &

(TUNNELe)—why the superfluous "u"? 22:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

On third thought, rename it to

(tSTRla), as in

(tSTR 4a) et al. Useddenim (talk) 22:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Judging from the usage, it was not a duplicate of (TUNNELlu), but rather something like

(PORTALr※ tSTRq) . Saying that it can be replaced by overlaying is false, although acceptable at 20 px high. But deleting it without fixing the usage is just typical Axpde. -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

At the time I deleted those icons "global usage" showed no usage! Your harassment "deleting it without fixing the usage" is definetely wrong! And it's definetely not "vandalized"! Such choice of words is a typical Tuvalkin! a×p_de ^Hello! 13:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I restored it, as also

(TUNNELqr), which had been similarly vandalized. I also uploaded their vertical equivalents, as

(TUNNELg) and

(TUNNELf). This matter brings up two questions: One of naming, another of semantics.

Concerning naming, these four icons present yet again a clear example how bad is having square icons with a previleged sense for vertical lines and none for horizontal lines. Using a trailing "q" as a general 90º rotation switch, as I defend, the horizontal version of these would be named simply as their vertical counterparts with said "q" appended:
- (TUNNELf) → (TUNNELf) ↷ (TUNNELfq) ← (TUNNELql)
- (TUNNELg) → (TUNNELg) ↷ (TUNNELgq) ← (TUNNELqr)
  - Continued at Talk:BSicon/Renaming#Transition to tunnel. YLSS (talk) 21:26, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Concerning semantics, (TUNNELql) is simply a tunnel portal on a stretch of line, like half a (TUNNEL1q). It is drawn with room enough to overlay another icon, such as (RP2) or (exHST legende). Using this instead (TUNNELlu) or a sequence of (PORTALl※ STRq) & (tSTRq) is semantically irrelevant and matters only whan building a diagram with more or less slack room.

If there’s more to be said about these two questions, lets do it in their own subpages. -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The suffix "q" shouldn't be missinterpreted as "we take an icon as seen in direction of travel and rotate it by 90° (counter?) clockwise" because it makes it far to difficult to decide what this should look like! a×p_de ^Hello! 13:41, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Are effing serious, guy? This section needs to be put here because you deteled two icons, stating falsely that they were unused (while they were) and that they are replaceable by overlay (which they are not), and you come whining about nomenclature? After what you did not long ago, when you ruined all the “UW” STRs and ABZs? Oh, go sit on a ferry bollard! -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Stop insulting me like a scratched LP! I never deleted any icon where global usage found any page outside user or talk namespace! Furthermore I didn't ruin any "UW" icon. I invented them and I managed to name all ABZ icons consistently!

While you needed one year and help by others to missname and partly replace about three "UW" ABZ icons I only needed one month to consistently rename and fully replace all icons in use plus furthermore create a full set of 48 icons!

You are the one sitting on the ferry bollard, complaining! a×p_de ^Hello! 21:32, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Both of you: Take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard!
Axpde, you may have "invented" the UW icons, but I believe I read somewhere that that conveys authorship, not ownership. And yes, you did a massive job of renaming a replacing icons, but (IMHO) you did it hastily by skipping User and Talk pages, and you did it without consensus.
Tuválkin, commendable that you proceeded cautiously, but the above exchange does definitely have a personal tone to it.
Anyone else have anything to add? Useddenim (talk) 03:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Other icon sets

nashtransport.ru

Plagiarists. [1] [2]. However, in view of this discussion (and its antecedent), we can learn something from them: [3] [4]. Except for the naming patterns, of course. And #BE2D2C should have been copyrighted. YLSS (talk) 11:18, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

SMicons

Concerning these: Category:Icons for subway maps, see this and this (in Russian) and also this. YLSS (talk) 10:59, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Like you said, reinventing the wheel. (And an awful lot of work when all one needs to do is change 6 characters in an .svg file._{23:00, 3 July 2013‎ 98.118.186.28 (talk)‎}

There’s nothiong wrong with reinventing the wheel — the result, although garish (what’s with the bold font and the primary colors?!), is interesting, from a diagram-building point of view. Too bad they went for PNG for the icons, not SVG. Maybe we could inegrate these as BSicon masks, redirected to their names? -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:38, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Only if the background colour is changed from pink to #f9f9f9. Useddenim (talk) 04:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

This looks like that Hover and Discover thing someone made. They seem pretty vague and low-quality. I would suggest redrawing them or replacing them as BSicons.Deonyi 08:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

One Two Three more copycats (or great minds think alike)

Just found these: Category:Icons for SuperVia descriptions. -- Tuválkin ✉ 06:21, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Inkscape... Well, at least not pngs. Well, since it is used in pt.wp, it's up to you to suggest the creators switching to BSicons (if you want). YLSS (talk) 08:59, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I want. However I don’t have much spare time now, and this needs more than spur-of-the-moment dedication to work. I’ll go around it later next month. -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As long as they don't spam our categories with BSicons ... #shrug# a×p_de ^Hello! 13:19, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Riverfloating

Category:Icons for riverfloating. The headnote is quite promising: "This category is in creation phase. Informations will apear here in near future (after uploading and translation)." Apparently without any change since 2007. YLSS (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

PNG bus route icons

Just found these: Category:Icons for bus line descriptions. Usage in es:Línea_C-3_(Cercanías_Madrid) and ca:TVRCas. Created mostly in 2007, then some added in 2011 and 2013. All these are a good reason for us to move all our stuff to renamed categories named "Category:BSicons/…". -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Pamplona buses: another case

Here: Category:Icons for bus line descriptions/Pamplona. Apparently made in 2011, not used. Easily replaced with BSicons with minimal changes and then deleted as low quality semantic duplicates, if they were used. I’ll file a DR. -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:50, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Done: Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Icons for bus line descriptions/Pamplona. All deleted now. -- Tuválkin ✉ 14:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Roads

Category:HWicon – argh, more plagiarism! There's even HWicon WASSER.svg: ... However, the likes of HWicon orJRTor.svg: can be renamed and slightly adjusted to become (nTEEl red).
There's something strange going on with Category:Icons for highway descriptions^{BSicons removed. Useddenim (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2014 (UTC)} & Category:Icons for road descriptions^{BSicons removed. Useddenim (talk) 12:40, 19 April 2014 (UTC)}. Why there are some BSicons in them? Have you guys just mistyped or was it intentional? Also check their subcategories, they contain quite funny things...

-- YLSS (talk) 08:13, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Chile

Category:Icons of road descriptions for Chile created two years ago, but apparently unused. Useddenim (talk) 01:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Icon attributions

Is there any standard on how icons should be attributed? (STR) is in PD, but (STRq) is in CC-SA, together with like (tSTR), (HST), (DST). Shouldn't these simple shapes be ~~outside~~ inside PD? — Peter why 12:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

A while back we sort of decided that they should be all {{PD-shape}}, except for things like

, though there may be a grey area, such as

. ~~Let me try to find that discussion.~~ -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:04, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

It is here. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:08, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I am thinking, is it possible to encourage existing icon authors for permission to give up existing CC licenses (or anything more restrictive) to PD, probably except those S-bahn / railway company logos? This follows from a discussion that, since we have been overlaying icons, the image links for some icons are also covered, and this is de facto hiding the link to icon permission page. Also, deciding the composite icon permission (although not a permanent image) may not be trivial if some layers are in CC and some are in PD. Therefore, I would think this BSicon project is not really compatible with {{CC-BY}} and {{CC-SA}}. — Peter why 17:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since most of the icons are so simple, can't they can be arbitrarily changed to {{PD-shape}}? (Or does the licensing also apply to the SVG coding? And in that instance, can code that's computer generated—by Inkscape or Illustrator, as opposed to being manually coded in a text editor—even be licensed?) Useddenim (talk) 20:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

I was also under impression that if an image is ineligible for copyrighting, then one can freely change it's license to PD-shape, and I did so occasionally. (No knowledge WRT coding; but if there are any issues, the question of re-uploading icons with clean-coded ones must be considered.) YLSS (talk) 06:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

BTW, I guess text BSicons should rather be marked with {{PD-text}}, while

(SBHF),

(SBHF-ES) &

(SBHF-BKV) could possibly be double-licensed with {{PD-textlogo}}. YLSS (talk) 07:04, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Then, who is to decide whether an icon is subject to copyright? I think the project needs to massively de-copyright images for the problem stated above, but where is the fine distinction between eligible and ineligible? For example,

(CLRV) {{Cc-by-sa-3.0}} is this simple enough to be moved? — Peter why 07:23, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the SVG files are computer software and need permission from the person who made the SVG files, per w:Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc. On the other hand, the PNG files generated by MediaWiki generally appear to be below the threshold of originality. --Stefan4 (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Is the code still eligible for copyright for simple shapes? And if the visual is not eligible for copyright, can I upload my version of the same icon, with my own code, and move that image to PD? — Peter why 15:54, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

According to w:Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc., USA grants copyright protection to computer software which generates simple shapes. For example, an SVG file is computer software which generates simple shapes. --Stefan4 (talk) 15:58, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

My reading of w:Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc.#Analysis and holdings is that yes, you could upload your own version, as long as the underlying code is substantially different. (And it would not be difficult to produce code that is “substantially different” to the bloated output of Illustrator and Inkscape.) Useddenim (talk) 23:10, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

There may also be cases where the underlying code is below the threshold of originality for text, but that may be harder to prove. --Stefan4 (talk) 22:24, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile, Alkari has re-tagged a large number of BSicons uploaded by various users with {{PD-shape}}. Can't say that I'm against it, just a little uneasy in view of the above discussion. (But his en masse re-uploading of BSicons with cleaned-up versions is certainly the right thing to do, thanks!) YLSS (talk) 09:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I've been proceeding on the assumption that most of these icons (consisting of little more than circles, straight lines and 45°/90° curves) fall below the threshold of originality, are therefore in the public domain as {{PD-shape}}, and shouldn't be tagged with licenses which misleadingly suggest otherwise. (Clearly that doesn't apply to things like

(SUBWAY) and

(BAHN), which I suspect are not PD.) I've only just become aware of the discussion here, thanks to YLSS, and hadn't realized this position might be contentious; if it's causing unease, I'll gladly cease re-tagging until some sort of consensus is reached.

However, I'm not sure the Adobe Systems case is particularly relevant here: an SVG file isn't "computer software" at all. The files we're dealing with don't generate simple shapes; they are simple shapes. A program which generates or displays SVGs (e.g. Inkscape, Illustrator, librsvg) is certainly software and is copyrightable per Adobe Systems, but I don't see that this automatically makes the output of such programs copyrightable if below the threshold of originality. Alkari (?), 9 October 2013, 03:03 UTC

There’s nothing contentious about marking as PD-shape icons consisting of little more than circles, straight lines and 45°/90° curves. Everytime I redraw/reupload one of these I change the license. I think we all agree on this one. -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:17, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

New template

{{BSicon-name}} (abbreviated {{Bsn}}) to display an icon name in bold blue code font, without the server overhead required to display a (non-existant) icon. Useddenim (talk) 19:55, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

At last! Thnx YLSS (talk) 20:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Great thing, but however I must insist that the redirect {{BS-n}} should exist. My preference for this resides in that that most simple, lowercase 2- and 3-letter templates refer to variant language content text to be handled with super-transcluded (“esoteric”) internationalization templates and other mechanisms, based on ISO-639’s Alpha-2 and Alpha-3 code spaces. The fact that Commons (and other projects, too, as these templates are supposed to be portable) have had no need so far to create templates for the languages Bassa (bsq), Buso (bso), or Barasana-Eduria (bsn)^[5] should not be reason enough to needlessly create an Y2k bug of our own. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Aargh, Tuválkin, you can scare the sh** out of people!!! I find that I just can't type "bsq", "bsn", "bso" now! Created redirects from {{Bs-n}} and {{Bs-o}}. YLSS (talk) 18:25, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Hehehe!, I know, right? -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:35, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Issues with Foundation's typography refresh

As you may have already known our tyrannic Wikimedia Foundation imposed their magnificent typography refresh on all sister projects. The changes involve serif font family for title and section header and slightly larger font size. I have no problem with serif typeface but someone pointed out the compatibility issues with most passive users[6]. The real problem is that by increasing the font size compulsively it means that we need to check and adjust all templates of the RDT project to make sure they don't break in the map. Currently en:template:BSsplit and the like suffer from the change instantly. Maps with collapsible section and defined text width are also highly susceptible. All in all I oppose the typography refresh and has already voiced my opposition in en:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#‎Support changing back to original font. German Wikipedia admin also engaged in the revert war with the foundation, meaning this change is quite unwelcome by the community. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 09:41, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Unsurprising, sadly. It seems to affect Vector only; I’m good because I never switched from Monobook. -- Tuválkin ✉ 10:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

It will affect monobook if foundation does not retract it. I mean we will have to modify all RDT templates to make them look acceptable in vector skin which may end up nasty in monobook because vector is the most popular skin and the default skin for anon user. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 11:07, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Am I the only one who's happy with that typography refresh? (Except for Georgia headings, but that's just because I'm unused to them, and I already start realizing their benefits). I am finally able to turn off the 120% zoom and be able too read Wikipedia without problems, even the minuscule second row of BSto!

The overall situation from my point of view is like that: when looking at e.g. en:Template:DLR Route diagram, I see the text pretty much the same as it was before for me with 120% zoom. The icons, on the other hand, have shrunk, and it won't be possible to fit two rows of text (even reduced to 80%) against an icon now. So I propose these solutions:

We decrease font size for BS-map, BS-table etc. so that it's like it was before. — I'm against this one, because it would contrast with the rest of the page.
We stop using BSsplits and the rest.
We increase the value of {{BSpx}} in all projects from current 20px to either 24px or 25px.
We start using Routemap more universally (that is, as soon as I swiftly rework some of it aspects). One of its inherent benefits is the possibility to increase the size of icons for the whole template with a single parameter at the top. So, for those RDTs that do not require BSsplitting or something, everything is as it is was before (there is just less space between rows of text, but that's actually better), while for those that would benefit from it, it would be enough to add PX=24 at the start of the (single) template.

So? YLSS (talk) 14:25, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

May I ask the point of using 24px which looks blurred

instead of crisp

(25px)? I'm concerned the increased icon size means the overall height of the map will multiply tremendously. I don't quite expect the typography refresh will last long. If it turns out to be an "opt-in" then we don't need to change the current setting at all. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 15:02, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Yup, 25px indeed looks better, I didn't think about that. And yes, I do not suggest rushing to change everything straight away, of course we should wait until the things settle. But I expect that refresh to really take ground. After all, they're not without brains, the guys up there... YLSS (talk) 16:05, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Here is the showcase of BS fractional text template. Notice the result is slightly different in English Wikipedia with more breaks:

text1

text2

text3

text4

BSkm

BSto

BSsplit

You may simply copy and paste the table codes to other Wikimedia project for testing. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

@YLSS: I use IE, Firefox and Safari on both Mac and Windows platforms and haven’t found it necessary to resort to zooming to 120%. I don’t mind the change to a serif font for the level 1 and 2 headings, but I don't care for the increased body text size (and has the leading been increased as well?). So I guess you are the only one who's happy with that typography refresh (at least in our little corner of Wikipedia). Useddenim (talk) 12:06, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I guess the question is not about browsers or system, but about the proportion of your display and your resolution. My notebook has 17.3", set to 1920×1080. The system zoom for text is 125% (so that I can watch FullHD movies and read some small text at the same time), and IE and Firefox inherit this, but Chrome doesn't. But in any case, this is zoom, which can't be perfect: I always had trouble with 125% zoom because while 20×20px icons resulted in 25×25px icons, 20×10 became 25×13 and 20×5 became 25×7 and all RDTs looked crooked — until I found a way to set zoom in Chrome to 120% (which is a non-trivial task). But this made Tuválkin's 16px RDTs at pt.wp look crooked... So of course it's better to live without zooming (for me). YLSS (talk) 17:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

File:BSicon_.svg

If anyone is wondering why the diagrams at Commons (and some other wikis) are in a total mess right now, see here: Commons:Administrators' noticeboard#File:BSicon .svg - urgent!. YLSS (talk) 17:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

File metadata cleanup drive!

In the spirit of the ongoing File metadata cleanup drive, I invite everyone to take care of these little bastards:

~~BSicons without {{Information}}~~
~~BSicons without source~~
~~just add {{en|BSicon}}~~ ^{Added 12:32, 18 October 2014 (UTC)}

More importantly, if anyone knows any other ways of automatically retrieving BSicons with broken attribution, please add here. Of course, nobody in his right mind is going to view BSicons in MediaVewer, but still we should better clean this mess by ourselves before somebody else from the side does it. YLSS (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Good idea. (Hmm, this one was easy…) -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, under BSicons without {{Information}}, these two
- (KBHFe_blue)
- (uextSTR2 r)

keep showing up even though they have the {{Information}} thingy all there with (apparently) no errors. -- Tuválkin ✉ 22:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Wow!

Check here what Fukuokakyushu2012 (talk · contribs) did! This is great stuff, and done not by one of us! (And shows that some RD and RP1 corner icons are necessary.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Certainly they are; the question is with RP2 corners. (It would be interesting to know what ruby & orange mean in that diagram. Well, and all the rest.) YLSS (talk) 05:29, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Wow! indeed. (Ruby and orange—and —are routes ‹254› and ‹244› — see google maps.) The thought that then occurred to me was “if only there was some way to overlay text strings in a diagram…” Useddenim (talk) 12:54, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the "wow"s guys, but what I was doing could be called "horseplay that turned into a weeklong project"... I really just got carried away with a BSicon roadmap experiment. (Also, I really don't know what I'm going to do with it.) Fukuokakyushu2012 (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Station layouts in Indonesian Wikipedia

More wow-worthy work: see search for "layout stasiun". -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:59, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

There's quite a lot of similar at ja.wp, actually. And zh.wp can boast some pretty scary ones, like zh:Template:汉口站. Thank god (or rather, thank Sameboat) there's Routemap, no more need for BS32 YLSS (talk) 20:33, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Those station pages are nice. I've been doing the same thing at en:wp for the Chicago 'L' station pages. I'd hoped that people would notice and it would catch on for other systems, but doesn't seemed to have happened yet. :p Lost on Belmont (talk) 22:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

To your surprise, I actually dissuaded or refused to provide more assistance to the author of that zh:Template:汉口站 (Hankou station) diagram because I think these are hardly useful to Wikipedia. It might be helpful in rail-themed Wikia (which has already incorporated Scribunto), but that looks like swaying from the ~~principle~~ scope of Wikipedia little too far away. Another problem with track layout diagrams is that those of big station hub or depot have a relatively high frequency of modification to the track layout, that means the layout diagram might become outdated soon if there is no author keeping track of the track layout state. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:25, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, indeed to my surprise… -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I've done a few for the London Underground. (Look for the

symbol on en:Template:District Line RDT.) Useddenim (talk) 03:22, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Guys, guys, those are really cool, for sure (and allow me to boast about these two sets while we’re at it), but it is hardly surprising that people who work at creating and standartizing BSicons in Commons actually use them in Wikipedia. What I found interesting in the w:id and w:cn examples above is that they are authored by users who (as far as I know) just chanced upon the BSicon thing and started to make their own stuff with it — that’s remarkable and, in a way, also one more reason for a pat on our own backs! -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:53, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't think I've seen such a pedestrian bridge across the platforms before: zh:豐年路站 & zh:水邊圍站. Quite realistic. YLSS (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Interesting idea. I have been using

(CPIC) for the same purpose: e.g., here. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:Rail tracks map template

OMG, was anybody aware of that one?? And such things as {{Wombourn railway station track plan}}, {{Gare du Mans/Plan de voies}} or ja:南浦和駅? YLSS (talk) 01:57, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

All I can say is "whoa." Although BSicons have grown out of the "just lines" phase and we have a track set, so this is now superfluous... Lost on Belmont (talk) 02:42, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Useddenim (talk) 09:22, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Done (with ja:南浦和駅, at least): Diagram converted to BS Diagram, with line-specific color coding, and a few more icons for YLSS's colors. Fukuokakyushu2012 (talk) 02:08, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Just saw ~~one~~ three earlier today on ja:南稚内駅. They've even made some colored diagrams using the same sort of thing. (They are quite more bulky though...) Fukuokakyushu2012 (talk) 23:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

ACC symbols

Please comment at en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template#ACC symbols and/or en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#Route diagrams and accessibility (wheelchair) symbol. Useddenim (talk) 10:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Track diagrams: Side platforms which are next to an express track but not used by it

Pinging Vcohen. How can a side platform (tracks 1 and 4) adjacent to an express track (tracks 2 and 3) be shown as not used by the express track (other than inserting a white space between them)? Useddenim has suggested using (BS SR) or (BS SR white), but it doesn't seem to be clear enough. (This is shown at w:en:WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 June 21#Station layout templates (the original discussion); the Commons template doesn't seem to support overlaying multiple images.) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 08:31, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Well then, how about this? Useddenim (talk) 16:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Another option is to overlay the directional track arrows over the express tracks in the "middle" of the platforms while the local tracks just use them before and after the platforms. Lost on Belmont^3200N_1000W (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, this is not the question I asked. These platforms, whether used or not, are island platforms. My question was about side platforms as opposed to island ones. The original discussion is here, and the configurations I am speaking about are shown in turquoise. Vcohen (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

I really don't understand what you're asking for. Please see w:en:WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 June 21#Relisted for more examples. Useddenim (talk) 22:57, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Vcohen seems to be of the opinion that in his/her templates side platforms are depicted as being radically different than island platforms and wants either a BSicon solution that doesn't just double the width of the platform, or to leave those templates on en alone. Personally, the side platforms in both Vcohen's templates and BSicon in just look like "half width versions" of island platforms. Lost on Belmont^3200N_1000W (talk) 01:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

@Lost on Belmont and Vcohen: Is it something to do with the borders on the platforms of the SL diagrams? Could this be fixed by adding a blank gap between the express track and the side platform (like the diagram at w:zh:羅湖站 (香港), platform 1 and passing track to the left; in OpenStreetMap)? Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 09:41, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

You mean like this? Then why doesn't Vcohen just say so? (I think he's just looking for reasons to say “No”.) Useddenim (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

My diagrams have two tracks each, not four. Is it possible to build with BSicons something similar to my diagrams? Is this question so difficult? Vcohen (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Side platforms

Island platforms
empty trackbed

It's only as difficult as you make it… Useddenim (talk) 19:44, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Excuse me, I hate cross-posting. I don't want to say every word twice. If our discussion has started there, let's continue there. The diagrams you just posted have already been discussed. Excuse me once more. Vcohen (talk) 20:13, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

ridiculously broken diagram

Does anyone feel like fixing w:hr:Željeznička linija Savski Marof - Zagreb Glavni kolodvor - Dugo Selo? The rows are done manually at 25px and it's even got a few PNG icons in it to top it off. Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 09:17, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Done (Yeesh!) Useddenim (talk) 03:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Missing icon in en.wp

Bob1960evens reports missing (uxWEIRf) in English Wikipedia, see Commons:Village_pump#Image_uxWEIRf.svg_on_English_wiki. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 21:55, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Caching error, perhaps? It is displaying just fine for me. Useddenim (talk) 01:51, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Documentation

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Axpde, and Sameboat: Should the English Wikipedia's BSicon catalogue pages be imported to Commons and placed in subpages of this page? This would make it easier to update catalogue pages in different languages (there are several wikis which have copied the enwiki one and never updated theirs) due to the existence of language templates on Commons, and would just generally centralize more stuff here. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:49, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd prefer to import the German wikipedia's catalogue ... a×p_de ^Hello! 14:56, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

@Axpde: Regardless of whether the Bilderkatalog is better than the complete catalogue, only the German Wikipedia (officially) is restricted to using a limited group of BSicons, as far as I'm aware. I don't think that would be helpful for most editors. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 15:19, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea. Translation (and the required templating) would be a big job, though. Useddenim (talk) 17:45, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim: I think it'd also be better to split the current pages by section, as a lot of them take a very long time to load. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 04:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Then I guess Step 1 would be to block out the pages and section headings. Useddenim (talk) 17:17, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim:

Landing page
- /Naming logic
- /Icon geometry and SVG code neatness
- /Colors
- /Appendix (catalogue templates)
straight tracks, parallel straight tracks, straight 2 and junctions/others
- /Straight tracks (at-grade)
- /Straight tracks (tunnels) (duplicating elevated transitions; no curves or diagonals)
- /Straight tracks (bridges) (duplicating tunnel transitions; no curves or diagonals)
- /Parallel lines (not including shifts or road crossings)
- /Line endings (all except narrow icons, including 45° and 90° curves and parallel lines)
- /Continuation (all except narrow icons, including 45° and 90° curves and parallel lines)
- /Water crossings (all except narrow icons)
- /Road–rail crossings (all except narrow icons)
- /Embankments and cuttings (all including legende; duplicate tunnel transitions)
- /Borders and customs (all including legende)
- /Crossovers and loops (including some two-quarter shifts)
- /Lineside features
- /Narrow tracks (all except narrow icons)
branchings and parallel 45° and 90° branchings
- /90° curves (including edge icons but not narrow icons)
- /Parallel 90° curves
- /45° curves and diagonals (including edge icons but not narrow icons; not including crossings)
- /Parallel 45° curves and diagonals
- /45° corners (including junctions but not narrow icons)
- /Parallel 45° corners

more later Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 05:15, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

shifts, junctions/crossings and parallel crossings and crossovers
- /One-quarter shifts (including shift curve and shift ending icons)
- /Two-quarter shifts and crossovers (including 2-way and 3-way double-width icons)
- /Three-quarter shifts
- /Four-quarter shifts and crossovers
- /Crossings
- /Diagonal crossings
- /Curved crossings (including k curves and (vSTRlf-KRZo) etc.)
- /Crossings with junctions
- /Crossings with parallel lines (not including road crossings)
junctions (2-way, 3-way, others, compound)
- /90° junctions (including 2-way double-width icons)
- /45° junctions
- /k curves and stations
- /k corners (including through tracks and stations)
- /Crossings with k corners
- /3-column curves and stations

Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 06:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

stations, parallel stations, interchange, S-Bahn and logos
- /Stations (including TBHF; duplicating overlays, 3-column curves and k curves)
- /Stations on parallel lines (including vTBHF; duplicating overlays)
- /Stops (including THST; duplicating overlays, 3-column curves and k curves)
- /Stops on parallel lines (duplicating overlays)
- /Freight stations (duplicating overlays)
- /Freight stations on parallel lines (duplicating overlays)
- /Freight stops (duplicating overlays)
- /Freight stops on parallel lines (duplicating overlays)
- /Accessible stations (including HSTACC; duplicating overlays)
- /Accessible stations on parallel lines (duplicating overlays)
- /Interchanges and accessible interchanges (including TINT; duplicating overlays, 3-column curves and k curves)
- /Interchanges and accessible interchanges on parallel lines (duplicating overlays)
- /Cross-platform interchanges (duplicating overlays)
- /Platforms
- /Regional stations and logos (duplicating overlays)
- /Station overlays (including HUB and BL)
parallel junctions
- /Parallel junctions and splits
- /45° parallel junctions and splits

Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:30, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim:

narrow icons (include links in related regular-width icon pages)
- /Narrow icons/straight tracks
- /Narrow icons/line endings
- /Narrow icons/continuation
- /Narrow icons/water crossings
- /Narrow icons/road–rail crossings
- /Narrow icons/90° curves
- /Narrow icons/45° curves and diagonals
- /Narrow icons/90° junctions
- /Narrow icons/45° junctions
- /Narrow icons/45° corners
- /Narrow icons/shifts
- /Narrow icons/lineside features (duplicate dW/X platforms)
- /Narrow icons/crossings
- /Narrow icons/overlays (masks, legende)
- /Narrow icons/other (ndSTR and dkSTRc1 etc.)
- /Narrow icons/stations and stops
- /Narrow icons/freight stations and stops
- /Narrow icons/interchanges and accessible stations
broad icons (all icons should be duplicated on other pages)
- /Wide icons
others
- /Interchange symbols
- /Line overlays (continuation arrows, directional arrows, pointers, line endings, mileposts, turntables, etc.)
- /Masks
- /Numbers, letters and other symbols
- /Canal overlays
canals
- /Canals
- /Canal infrastructure
- /Non-navigable waterways
trails
- /Trails
roads (including RA, RB, RE, RG, RM, RR and RY)
- /Roads
- /Road junctions
- /Crossings

I think that's everything. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 02:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with moving over the Pictogram Catalog from en.wp, if there’s no issue on their side. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:41, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Tuvalkin: I've posted over on w:en:WT:RDT, no replies yet. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
  to reply to me 02:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim and Tuvalkin: All of the existing catalogue pages and the helper templates have now been imported from enwiki for attribution reasons (many thanks to Steinsplitter), so the enwiki catalogue pages and catalogue pages on other wikis can probably be soft-redirected to the temporary Commons pages for now. Jc86035 (talk) 15:51, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Excellent, many thanks! -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 22:01, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

To-do

@Useddenim and Tuvalkin: Should there be a to-do list of uncontroversial tasks which need to be done (e.g. fixing the dashes in (RP43 1), uploading a complete set of stations on k-curves and 3-curves)? I currently have my own list and also have several thousand icons on my computer waiting to be uploaded, but I think it would be better if we could centralize this. Jc86035 (talk) 11:28, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead. Currently I have nothing queued to be done, just addressing random issues as they pop up. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 21:13, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Certainly (although I can't promise how many I will do). Useddenim (talk) 02:37, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim and Tuvalkin: Done at BSicon/To-do. I had thought I would be able to stick it in a little collapsible table on every talk page, but it seems a bit unwieldy for that. Jc86035 (talk) 01:58, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Use in Commons

Take a look at this cat: Category:Categories illustrated with BSicon diagrams. Only two subcats so far, but there maybe more and I’m sure there should be even more! -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 06:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Question

(uvUST) (no umlaut) is only used on five wikis. On four of these wikis, it is used in BSicon catalogs. The fifth, enwiki, is used solely in an enwiki admin's picture gallery. The name is very similar to (uvÜST) (with umlaut), which sees much more use, including in actual articles on several wikis. I was thinking that we could rename & mass-replace uvUST to something else and redirect the file to uvÜST, which is very hard to type. Thoughts? epicgenius (talk) 02:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Agree. Useddenim (talk) 04:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: (On a Mac, Ü is ⌥ Option U then ⇧ Shift U, or long press ⇧ Shift U and then 2. On Windows, it's alt 0220,^{Useddenim (talk) 11:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)} or select it from the special characters box in the editing window, I guess.) I think it would be better to rename it to uvFÜST per Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Canals#uLJUNC (discussion from 2013), since it could be useful for… something? If it becomes a valid icon name there's no reason to delete it, but otherwise I don't really know what I'd do with it. Mass replacement shouldn't be necessary; most of the catalogues not on Commons (in both userspace and Wikipedia-space) are unmaintained and if they're untranslated, or on the Simple English Wikipedia, they can just be soft-redirected to the Commons page without further discussion.

Incidentally, there are a lot of icons that need to be reuploaded and/or renamed, not limited to canal icons, but it's a lot of boring, somewhat meaningless work and almost no one actually does it (I've started almost all the discussions in the current Talk:BSicon/Renaming and in archives 8–11). I think it could help if you went through the current (unarchived) discussions and added support/oppose comments, mostly because it's hard to form a consensus with just three or four people. Jc86035 (talk) 04:37, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jc86035: Yeah, but typing Ü is tedious, hence my proposal. So maybe uvUST should be renamed to uvFÜST as soon as possible, I guess. It wouldn't be particularly controversial since, by your own statement, most of these catalogues are unmaintained. epicgenius (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: I've renamed the file (along with a bunch of others affected by that discussion). I would free up the redirect but I've been periodically sending batches of unused redirects into the deletion incinerator, so maybe there should be a blacklisted category for U → Ü and UE → Ü redirects so that I don't end up accidentally nominating them for deletion. Jc86035 (talk) 08:53, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion Keep both icons; rename the filled one to (uvFÜST) (canals need that, I suppose). Issues dealing with keyboard entering of any given character should be addressed at the proper location. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Waterways icon problem

moved from Talk:BSicon/Catalogue/watercourses

When using the icon for a canal under a minor road - KRZuy - the canal appears in red on the resulting template in Wikipedia. See en:Template:Wey and Godalming Navigations map specifically Clay Lane, Tilthams Corner Road & Catteshall Road bridges

I suspect I am doing something wrong, can anyone advise? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 10:22, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Now found a different code that solves the problem - uSKRZ-Yu - but others might still be confused

Murgatroyd49 (talk) 10:28, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

That would happen if you used

(KRZuy) instead of

(uKRZuy). Useddenim (talk) 10:40, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Catalogue template

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Axpde, and Sameboat: So now we have {{BSicon catalogue}}, which runs on Module:BSicon catalogue. I don't know why I waited so long to make it, but it can probably replace about half of the current tables right now.

{{BSicon catalogue|
STR
}}

		ex	u	uex
STR
		ex	u	uex

{{BSicon catalogue|preset=1|
BAHN~~Text~~small text
}}


BAHN		Text small text

{{BSicon catalogue|preset=7|
kBHF 1~~Station~~on k-curve from corner 1
kBHF2~~Station~~on k-curve to corner 2
kBHF3~~Station~~on k-curve to corner 3
kBHF 4~~Station~~on k-curve from corner 4
kBHFr 1~~Station~~on k-curve to right from corner 1
kBHF2 r~~Station~~on k-curve to corner 2 from right
kBHF3 l~~Station~~on k-curve to corner 3 from left
kBHFl 4~~Station~~on k-curve to left from corner 4
}}

	e	x	ex	t	et	xt	ext	h	eh	xh	exh	u	ue	ux	uex	ut	uet	uxt	uext	uh	ueh	uxh	uexh
kBHF 1																								Station on k-curve from corner 1
kBHF2																								Station on k-curve to corner 2
kBHF3																								Station on k-curve to corner 3
kBHF 4																								Station on k-curve from corner 4
kBHFr 1																								Station on k-curve to right from corner 1
kBHF2 r																								Station on k-curve to corner 2 from right
kBHF3 l																								Station on k-curve to corner 3 from left
kBHFl 4																								Station on k-curve to left from corner 4
	e	x	ex	t	et	xt	ext	h	eh	xh	exh	u	ue	ux	uex	ut	uet	uxt	uext	uh	ueh	uxh	uexh

Currently presets 1 through 9 exist (2 is BSa, 3 is BSa6x, and 9 is BSaV). Other prefix combinations can be used with parameter |prefix=,e,x,ex,.... Missing features include proper alt text, rows with multiple roots, suffixes per icon, and most of the more complicated table types. Jc86035 (talk) 11:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Count me out of anything that uses double tildes and slashes and whatever. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 00:02, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Would you prefer something like kBHF 1 - Station - on k-curve from corner 1? Jc86035 (talk) 11:01, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Back then I’m sure I said that pipes are the only acceptable delimeters. But this is a tangent, the matter at hand doesn’t depend on which underlying syntax is used. I simply don’t want to look at this way to produce BSicon route diagrams. I’ll go on using the old templates while possible, and discuss renamings and all that — while ignoring this. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:00, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Tuvalkin, that | is the only correct delimiter for templates. Also, I dislike the migration of templates to Lua, as that severely limits the number of editors that can maintain and modify them. !Useddenim (talk) 20:35, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

@Useddenim and Tuvalkin: Does using different delimiters actually make editing diagrams significantly more difficult? (Genuine question – I always had more trouble with the old templates, and I thought a lot of the early opposition could be attributed to resistance to change.) It's definitely possible to recreate the old style using templates which just produce Routemap syntax, and it's already possible on most wikis with Module:Routemap by pasting {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#invoke:Routemap|BSrow}} into a template (e.g. en:Template:RDTr). I coded it, and it's fully compatible with Routemap (including all the new stuff), but then no one actually used it, it seems. (The template can take any number of icons, but text fields are |R1=, |R2=….)

The primary thing I have against using it is that it makes it significantly more difficult to use overlays, since you have to count them and change all of the numbers every time you shift icons to the side, and I personally find it a nightmare. Jc86035 (talk) 05:06, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Regardless of the syntax, the Lua-based template already has a lot of advantages, such as allowing custom prefixes (currently there are also 22 presets), automatically handling parallel lines syntax (currently it's STR:BHF for vSTR-BHF but I'd like to change that), and allowing multiple sets of icons in one row.

v`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-ex`2`	vex`1`-`2`	exv`1`-`2`	tv`1`-`2`	uv`1`-`2`	v`1`-u`2`	vu`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-ex`2`	vex`1`-`2`	exv`1`-`2`	tv`1`-`2`	uv`1`-`2`	v`1`-u`2`	vu`1`-`2`
vSTR-BHF									vSTR-HST									Through line – station
v`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-ex`2`	vex`1`-`2`	exv`1`-`2`	tv`1`-`2`	uv`1`-`2`	v`1`-u`2`	vu`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-`2`	v`1`-ex`2`	vex`1`-`2`	exv`1`-`2`	tv`1`-`2`	uv`1`-`2`	v`1`-u`2`	vu`1`-`2`

Jc86035 (talk) 05:18, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

No, Jc86035, you misunderstood me. I like {{Routemap}}. My issue is with {{BSicon catalogue}}, which I feel should conform to standard template syntax using the | delimiter. Also, I will now be dependent upon your for maintaining it, as I don't know Lua. When I started cleaning up the catalog several years ago, I created and modified templates as I went along. Admittedly, the catalogs are currently reasonably stable, but if I need any format changes... Useddenim (talk) 13:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

@Useddenim: It's rather unfortunate that it's the best way of allowing prefixes to be customized without making new templates, but I'll add documentation throughout the module in case I disappear or something. I'm sure I'm not the only editor within the WMF wikis who can read and write Lua.

A slightly modified RDTr would work perfectly fine with the catalogue template (e.g. {{RDTr|BHF2|R1=Station|R2=on line to corner 2}} = BHF2~~Station~~on line to corner 2), although I'm not sure this would achieve anything other than being able to use the vertical bar.

I think except for some more complex types, such as BSa7x and handling mixed icons (i.e. allowing

(uABZmgl g) to fit in a catalogue of mixed icons, as well as a comma-delimited |suffixes= parameter for the other sets), the template should really be sufficient for most things even though it's only a few days old, and any custom stuff like the HUB and GRZ icons can stay in the simple wikitables.

Even templates like the ACC/INT template can be approximated with INT\ACC\ACCx\HSTACC\INTACC, although this is more text for each group of icons, and if it becomes an issue I will probably have to figure out how to fix it without making the colon system too confusing. Probably would end up being something like |, and l:f would result in lINTf, exlINTf and so on. Jc86035's alternate account (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Admittedly, for most cases it is simpler. I can live with it, as we're getting down to "in a perfect world" vs. "what works". This ~~template~~ module may also solve the u/g canals conundrum. Useddenim (talk) 19:47, 21 May 2018 (UTC)