Commons:Deletion requests/File:Osama bin Laden.PNG
This image was obviously not taken by the FBI as claimed since the FBI never had custody of Bin Laden. The FBI is well known to ignore copyright in using images of wanted people and this is certainly one of those cases. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 22:42, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
- It has been used by the U.S Department of Defense as far back as 2001, during the invasion of Afghanistan in the form of a leaflet [1], meaning that the U.S government undoubtedly have copyright over the image, being the first known and therefore original publishers. The FBI have used it since 1999. No copyright tag is even present on the image. StanTheMan87 (talk) 12:23, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- That may well be, but governments are notorious for using whatever image they can get for wanted people. As I said, the FBI certainly didn't take this image and I doubt very much that any other Federal employee did. In order to keep it, you must show who actually took the photo and that he or she has licensed it appropriately. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:12, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- I found this image on the Associated Press website [2], which is very similar to the FBI version [3] though the latter has been cropped, enhanced and de-colorized. The image was apparently taken in Afghanistan of April 1998 and the author is listed as "Anonymous". However, it is listed as being uploaded on the 2nd of May 2011, 12 years after the FBI first used it, and 9 years after the Department of Defense produced it in Afghanistan as a wanted poster. I also found the same image, this time with the color and enhancement, but it is cited as being from Reuters [4] and then the same image cited as being from the Associated Press [5]. It is clear that an Associate Press or Reuters photographer/journalist did not take this image, as it was obviously from some unknown al-Qaeda operative or associate to Osama bin Laden. If the image doesn't have a verifiable author and was taken in Afghanistan and first produced there, wouldn't that make in the the Public-Domain according to the United States? StanTheMan87 (talk) 10:43, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- You are correct that if the image were taken in Afghanistan in the 1990s and first published there, that it would be PD. However, it is up to you to prove that that is the case. It seems to me much more likely that it was first published outside of Afghanistan. The fact that the author is unknown does not affect the copyright in the short term in most countries -- that is, in most countries an image with an unknown author may have a shorter copyright, but it will still be more than 15 or 20 years. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:05, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- I wish the U.S could take pictures of everything, and then all images would be in the public domain. It appears that it was taken in Afghanistan, at least according to the Associated Press [6]. The U.S. did officially publish it in Afghanistan when they distributed the leaflets and posters with that image on it in September 2002, thereby making it accessible to the public for public use. Here is the proof [7]. To save you time from scrolling throughout the page, it's the 19th and 22nd image used by the U.S Department of Defense during Operation Enduring Freedom. StanTheMan87 (talk) 11:50, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- While, as you say, the US apparently published it in Afghanistan in 2002, that does not say anything about when and where it was first published. That's the key to its copyright status. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:55, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
- I don't follow. I don't wish to sound ignorant, but I found another source which is easier to navigate [8]. This shows the leaflet containing the Osama bin Laden image in Afghanistan, and as stated, were held by an Afghan on November 27th 2001 which proves it was published there. StanTheMan87 (talk) 12:16, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Keep- The image was first published in the country of origin, Afghanistan when the U.S Department of Defense produced material with that image printed on it for the civilian population of Afghanistan to use. The source [9] states it was held by an Afghan on November 27th 2001, which is the first recorded publishing of the image. The image was taken in April 1998, and Osama bin Laden was based out of Afghanistan during that period. The AP source [10], cites the location as Afghanistan, lists the photographer as anonymous and was only uploaded to the AP archive in 2009, in contrast to this photo which has been in use by the FBI since November 2001 [11] which was the month and year of first publication [12]. StanTheMan87 (talk) 11:18, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Kept: No real doubt that it was first published in Afghanistan, probably by the US gov. Yann (talk) 15:33, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
No explanation as to what the statement "No real doubt that it was first published in Afghanistan" has to do with the copyright status. {{PD-Afghanistan}} requires publication more than 50 years ago. Where was this published more than 50 years ago? Stefan4 (talk) 01:48, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
- Again, you fail to demonstrate that you have even read the license in use. I suggest you start there, before listing the files I upload for deletion. StanTheMan87 (talk) 07:22, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Kept: Procedural closure. Reopening without new information. Yann (talk) 09:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Found this image here on the Associated Press website which states that it was submitted in 1998 [13]. This is before the FBI used it in 1999. Unsure whether this constitutes as being 'published' material or not, However, it is blatantly obvious that the Associated Press did not take this image of bin Laden, but they must have got it from some source, some how, so I don't know if it is allowed on Commons. StanMan87 (talk) 00:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
- AP site was failing for me (from the UK), however this Archive version works. --Fæ (talk) 00:08, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment I have uploaded the uncropped version, thumbnail to the right. This was found by a Google image search based on the apparent original hosted by Associated Press. Whichever license the consensus judges to apply to the cropped version should apply to the original. Consequently I have linked this DR from the original version image page and the outcome of this DR should apply to it. --Fæ (talk) 00:29, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Delete It is apparent that my comment above about the status of this image is wrong. I was under the incorrect impression that all Afghan images before 2008 were PD. It is clear that we need a license from the photographer or a good reason why this should be PD. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 18:01, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment File:Osama bin Laden.jpg got the same DR. --JuTa 21:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Deleted: As per Jim and Stefan. Natuur12 (talk) 22:15, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
