Commons:Deletion requests/File:Beba Idelson Ada Maimon1952.jpg
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
This image has a Commons:URAA problem. In the US its still copyrighted until end of 2047 (95 years after publication). JuTa 21:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Deleted: INeverCry 19:50, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- Restored per COM:DIU after request on COM:UR. --Alan (talk) 12:50, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
No evidence of publication prior to March 1, 1989. If it was not published until after March 1, 1989 then it will still be copyright in the US. As there is no proof as to how this image is and remains PD in the US it should be deleted as per COM:PRP. LGA talkedits 01:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Keep There is also no evidence that this was not published before March 1, 1989. It seems to me that this is attempt to by pass the community decision in Commons:Massive restoration of deleted images by the URAA. This picture was taken in 1952 and it is part of The National Photo Collection of Israel see here and was published than. In the picture you can see 2 member of the Knesset Finance Committee in the Knesset cafeteria. Realy I do not understand the purpos of this act, There is no problem with this picture. Hanay (talk) 03:59, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- The COM:EVID policy is very clear on who has to demonstrate what and it is the uploader or someone wishing to retain the image who have the burden of proof. Absent the proof demonstrating how this file has ever entered into the Public Domain in the US it should be deleted as per the COM:PRP. LGA talkedits 04:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- This only your opinion, this is not a fact. I added to the picture a link to the picture page in The National Photo Collection of Israel. You can see the publication date there. I quote here what User:Prokurator11 wrote in Commons:Deletion requests/File:Aharon Hoter Yishai.JPG : Despite the neutrally phrased disguise, the nomination is clearly based on URAA-related arguments, which, as the community has quite clearly stated, may not be used as the sole reason for deletion. The only relevance of proof of publication before March 1, 1989 (the date the US joined the Berne convention), would be for the purpose of establishing the applicability of COM:Subsisting copyright in the context of URAA copyright restoration. However, it is not sufficient to establish that the work is not in public domain in the US under URAA (and it is evidently not). The relevant question would be whether the work is in public domain under the applicable law other than URAA. Under PD:Israel the publication date has no legal implication, since it is the date of the creation of the work that matters under the applicable law, and there is a sufficient evidence regarding this image being PD in the source country, as in the US (otherwise as due to URAA). Hanay (talk) 05:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
- The COM:EVID policy is very clear on who has to demonstrate what and it is the uploader or someone wishing to retain the image who have the burden of proof. Absent the proof demonstrating how this file has ever entered into the Public Domain in the US it should be deleted as per the COM:PRP. LGA talkedits 04:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Is this a war of attrition? This 62 year old picture is clearly in public domain, in Israel and around the world. Oyoyoy (talk) 04:24, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- You need to demonstrate that it is PD in the US (as per COM:L), it was for exactly this type of picture that the US Congress passed 17 U.S.C. § 303 in the hope that they would be published, so it really is is not clear that this image has ever been in the Public Domain in the US. LGA talkedits 05:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- Keep if what LGA is trying to say is true, then the picture that was taken in 1952 must have been unpublished nowhere for 37 years. it doesn't seems to me to be a reasonable doubt. Ely1 (talk) 05:35, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Clearly PD in Israel, unclear status in US; according to WMF legal opinion, such images don't present a problem, unless there is a reason to believe that it's copyrighted in the US. —Ynhockey (talk) 06:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Comment Just to clarify; the status of the work in the source country (Israel) is not relevant to it's status in the US as the US does not apply the rule of shorter term. Knowing the date of publication along with the nature of that publication is the only way of confirming if this work has ever been PD in the US. It is very common for national archives to maintain collections of documents and photographs that are closed to the public and are only released after long after the event (the WP page on the Israel State Archives says 30 years). In summary unless a first publication date for this is known and where it was published and if necessary that the publication did not have a copyright notice it can not be assumed to have ever been be PD in the US, and if it has never been PD in the US it was not covered by the URAA. LGA talkedits 03:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
- It's also important to note that the WMF has issued a legal opinion that the problem is only with images that are certain to be copyrighted in the US. For images where there is reasonable doubt, there is no legal reason to delete. If the only reason for this deletion is a certain quirk of Commons policy that tries to be holier than the Pope, then (as I stated multiple times in the main URAA discussion) what every Commons user should be trying to do is change the policy, not delete the images. —Ynhockey (talk) 06:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
- The only way that it is not copyright in the US is if it was published in the US before 1989 and that publication did not have the correct copyright notice. Now given there is nothing to suggest publication in Israel or anywhere else before that date, let alone the US, I don't think there can be much no doubt that this image is in copyright in the US. LGA talkedits 07:08, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
- It's also important to note that the WMF has issued a legal opinion that the problem is only with images that are certain to be copyrighted in the US. For images where there is reasonable doubt, there is no legal reason to delete. If the only reason for this deletion is a certain quirk of Commons policy that tries to be holier than the Pope, then (as I stated multiple times in the main URAA discussion) what every Commons user should be trying to do is change the policy, not delete the images. —Ynhockey (talk) 06:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
- Keep See explanation above. Ovedc (talk) 10:38, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
No evidence of publication prior to March 1, 1989 -FASTILY 19:55, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
- Restored by Yannf, differing opinion from closing admin, and seemingly reflecting the above consensus his reasoning — billinghurst sDrewth 03:06, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
While this image is without question {{PD-Israel}} there is no indication that it is free in the US or any other country that does not use rule of shorter term.Following Wikimedia Foundation issued the following statement on 14 February 2012 where they recommended "Commons community should still examine media on a case-by-case basis" and the long standing requirement of COM:L that images must be free to use in both United States and in the source country this image fails on the first of those and should be deleted. It lacks any firm proof of publication in either Israel or the US prior to March 1, 1989 and should therefore should be deleted as failing COM:L as not being free in the United States. LGA talkedits 23:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- That is enough of your repetition. There is a community consensus above that the probability is that the files have been published due to the nature of their history. It is an abuse of your participation to continue your deletion requests with the same arguments. Please leave it be. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:08, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
