User talk:W.carter/Archive 15

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Need your presence at Featured sound candidates

		We request the honor of your presence at Featured sound candidates
		Dear W.carter, Featured sound candidates needs your help and you can help by reviewing , nominating your sounds for the FS Tag. You can start reviewing/nominating sounds now. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 20:29, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Cog wheel on a huge crane claw - 1.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Cog wheel on a huge crane claw - 1.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 05:02, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Regarding the FPCBot

•  Info This discussion started by chance on a FPC nomination and developed into this. --Cart (talk) 06:12, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Hey W.carter,

I just finished analyzing the script (it takes time, 1271 lines!) and I found that it is designed to remove withdrawn candidates if there is already one withdrawn in the candidate list, that means you must have a withdrawn candidate all the time to get it(the older one removed, still it won't remove the newer) removed I think it's not a bug but a feature as it's always good to have different examples for the new comers, yes, it will remove them after 9 days. Why not test this by 2 test noms ? I will withdraw these after adding some fake votes and check if it really removes the older one. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 18:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Bot Will close withdrawn nominations within 24 hrs if there are more than one -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 18:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

See Code at https://pastebin.com/raw/ewq5LyYW

• Hi there, much better to use my page. The thread just evolved from a comment on that nom page. I am going away tonight with only my phone, hopefully I will be able to take a look at all this tomorrow night. Good job! --Cart (talk) 18:35, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha, a really fantastic job going through all that code and finding what might be causing this. I hope we are not wearing you out. You are doing a lot of good things here.

The tests are a good idea. You could add links to this(these) discussion to the noms so that people can find out what is going on in an easy way. I see that the code does mot mention "FPD", that should be included. That template might have been created after the original program was written. When we have the result of the tests, I think it might be better to skip the "one withdraw/FPX/FPD left". The "wait one day" command is good though because people can change their mind or another user can take over the nom.

While we are at fixing the code, is there any chance we can add/allow some other voting templates too? {{Weak support}} {{Strong support}} {{Weak oppose}} {{Strong oppose}} People are using them from time to time, but the Bot will not recognize them and I'm tired off having to tell voters about it and correct things all the time. If I remember correctly only {{Neutral}} is accepted and not {{N}}; both should be working. There is a current nom where both are used. If it goes all the 9 days we could see how the Bot will read them.

On FPC, there is also an FPX at the moment that has not been edited for 24 h. We can see if it will get archived. All we can do now it wait and see. Thanks again for your hard work! --Cart (talk) 06:53, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Supported templates: The supported templates are in the tuple at https://pastebin.com/raw/Hx0KGFg0

Will add strong and week templates to the tuple after testing all the templates -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 09:21, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha, please add both the strong and weak ones; both are in use. I don't think the remove should be added. The delists are not used very often and they must be handled manually anyway since there are too many things in a delists that require human interaction. I think that is why there are not a lot internationalization for that part. --Cart (talk) 07:22, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Are you sure that weak/strong ones are not counted ? I will need to test it before a pull request, I just checked it's in the tuple so must be working IMO --Eatcha (Talk-Page) 09:30, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

It hasn't been working for a year or so, the bot count has been off. You don't need to create another test for that, you can just add a weak/strong vote to the nomination I have up and running. Please leave a note after the vote that you are using that template to test the Bot with my permission. I don't think it will succeed but I will let it run until the Bot picks it up so it's a good place to do the test. Probably best if you 'oppose' so we will have the answer in a 5-day fast close. --Cart (talk) 09:36, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

If you take a look at the tuples you will find that [Ww]eak support , [Ww]eak oppose and [Ss]trong support are already in it, according it the bot must be counting these 6 templates (assuming S/s and W/w are diffrennt) I only need to add [Ss]trong oppose to it(the tuple). The biggest problem is bot pulls last edit time from the page-history, no way to fool it by back-date-signing. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 10:02, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

{{n}} is not in the tuple, so I'm sure it won't be counted, I will add this in the pull request -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 10:06, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

BTW, do you know any nom where [Ww]eak support , [Ww]eak oppose and [Ss]trong support were not counted by the FPCBot --Eatcha (Talk-Page) 10:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting we back-date-sign anything, we will have to let all the test noms run as usual. The 5-day I was talking about is in the coding and it is working just fine. After 5 days, a nom with 10 support and no opposes OR a nom with support only from the nominator and the rest opposes, will be closed early by the bot. In any case 5 or 9 days, the nom will be closed by the bot and we can see if the votes are counted by the bot or not. I should do so, but will it... I have corrected this a few times, but I really can't remember on which noms since there are quite a lot of noms. --Cart (talk) 10:12, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Any extra templates ?

Hey W.carter,

Do you know of any additional templates that users are using despite being told not to do so ? I actually don't want to send many pull requests, bengtsson is really very busy and I don't want to disturb him by sending many pull requests just to add a template each time. Thanks -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 17:37, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi there Eatcha, Those four strong/weak the n/neutral are the only ones I have come across in voting. I checked with Category:Polling templates and could not find any more. Just remember to add "FPD" to the line with "withdraw" and "FPX". Bengtsson? That's a Swedish name. :-) Sounds like you are "trapped" between two Swedes now. Tell him *Hallå där! Tack snälla!" from me. :-) --

I already added FPD, it will act same as FPX. But what to do about the code that prevents removal of withdrawn noms if there are not 2 withdrawn noms at a time ? Should I remove it too ? I don't know, because It looks like he added it so that a new user can see all types of templates in use. OK, I'll send that line with the pull request -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 17:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

E: I think it is best to pull that one too. As soon as an FPC is withdrawn, it should be closed and removed from the list. That is the way we have done it for a few years now. New users will get advice from older users on how to do things. We could maybe instead add that option to the FPC intro/rules. I guess that we don't want it around too much since new users are very happy to "nominate and withdraw"–repeat and it is exhausting for the FP community. --Cart (talk) 18:07, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

By soon what do you mean ? Less than 24 hours ? -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 18:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

E: Sorry, my mistake. I mean after 24 hours. Let's give all of them a day in case someone change their mind. From what I see now some users are a bit too quick to close some withdrawn noms. Oh, well that is their problem, but we don't have to be so hasty with the bot. --Cart (talk) 18:15, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay then, codes are ready, will send the pull request after all the test noms are checked. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 18:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

E: Great! Thanks! You are a gem for helping us with this!!! --Cart (talk) 18:22, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Lucas and Cart, I asked bengtsson to provide me full write access on the version control platform. If he provides me the right to commit I'll try to add all templates from Commons:Polling templates into the allowed list (tuples) ? There are templates like {{OE}}, {{Oversaturated}}, {{PCA}}, {{UE}}, {{Works for me}} and {{Amazing}} etc, they can be very useful if added. You both look interested in it, what are you opinions ? -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 21:51, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I won't be able to reply for next 6hrs, it's 3 AM where I live. Need to sleep now -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 21:59, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Good night! Sleep well. I don't think they should be added since they are comment templates and not voting templates. They are ambigous. Let's stick with only the s,o & n versions. It may sound boring, but we need to keep things a bit strict at FPC since voters have a tendency to flip out if given too many options. It makes it hard to get a good overview of the voting. After all, it is FPC and not a chat room. And since the above templates are usually used as comments in nom discussuions, they will then be counted as extra votes by the Bot. In that case people will be voting without meaning to. --Cart (talk) 22:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Ok then, I'm not adding these extra templates -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 04:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha: Thank you! I look very much forward to the next and upcoming Bot runs to see what happens. :-) There are a lot of withdrawn, closed and not closed, noms that should have been fixed by the Bot if the "one withdrawn left"-system had worked. The list looks very messy at moment and I long to have it in order again. There was also a good example of when people change their mind. Two or three users arguing over a withdrawn nom. Shows that the 24 hour rule is a good idea. Fingers crossed it will all work out now. :-) --Cart (talk) 07:49, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

The discussion over there over who should be nominator is hilarious. I didn't know nominating is such a serious business. I agree that only pure voting templates should be allowed and no commenting templates (but they don't do much harm because the bot wouldn't count them anyway). There is also a third category, the "voting retraction" templates, where I only know the {{unsupport}}. I once suggested this should be counted by the bot, but it's a rather tiresome template to manually count, because it means that the supporter doesn't want his support counted, which is usually placed somewhere else. I personally find the practice of striking (<s>{{s}}</s>) much clearer for everyone. – Lucas 08:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Yep. There really are all kinds of people here and that is why we need to keep the voting system a bit strict. Some fun is allowed, but not so much that it disrupts the voting. I commented on the {{unsupport}} here and I agree that the striking is better and clearer. --Cart (talk) 08:18, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

It's not done yet, I still don't have access to the master branch of the version control system. I don't know what bengtsson did but looks like I can edit everything except the master branch. But the neutral and strong/weak templates should work now they were added by a pull request that bengtsson pushed into the master branch. I emailed him about the issue let's see what he does, otherwise I'm afraid that we may need to change the auto pull cronjob to pull from another repository, I can maintain the source on my fork -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 17:03, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Please keep the vote template testing at bay

Eatcha, I see you are using foreign voting templates all over the place and declare them in your comments. While I fully approve of your work on the bot and am looking forward to the improvements, I find this is not respectful to the nominators (Cart also thinks this). Not everyone is aware of the bot testing so having random votes which only say "<<some foreign language>> template works as well!" is confusing to the nominators at least. I see other voters have latched on to this and are doing the same now. Please edit all your votes to not declare what you are doing, you can keep the actual templates in of course. Thanks! – Lucas 08:41, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I removed the comments -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) 17:04, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• Since this seems to be the template discussion page, can I suggest we try to restrict ourselves, when supporting/opposing, to use those templates/words, rather than "agree" or other variants. Remember it isn't just the bot who has to understand the vote, and people (esp. newbies) will get confused if we have all sorts of votes like for example "meh", "yup", "nah" or whatever else comes into our heads. Which templates currently count for support/oppose? Are the templates translated into the words for "support" in other languages? -- Colin (talk) 19:30, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• Colin, Eatcha has already been told (and agreed) to take it easier with the testing. No need to rub it in. If you look at the thread above here, you will see that the only templates that are going to be allowed for the actual voting are the normal s, o and n the weak and strong versions of them. The rest are just comment templates. Translations of 'support' and 'oppose' are already in the code for the bot. You can see part of that code in this diff or here. --Cart (talk) 19:39, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• I wasn't really being critical, just adding caution. I spotted a "Agree" vote in the test noms and thought that was just confusing, and hoped there weren't plans for other vote terms. If "Agree" is a actually just a comment template, then that's also confusing and I'd strongly discourage using that. People can just, you know, use words if they agree with another person's comments. -- Colin (talk) 07:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

• What you saw was an old (2009) Portuguese translated version of the polling¨template {{concordo}} that for some strange reason is still in the code for 'support'. Spotting these odd templates in other languages can be tricky, but it is not a template that should be among the actual votes at FPC. One of the bugs in the Bot that needs fixing. (Btw, think/hope you've got a typo in your first sentence.) --Cart (talk) 08:33, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

• Fixed. -- Colin (talk) 11:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Earth 2019 i Sverige har startat!

Hej! Varmt välkommen att vara med i fototävlingen Wiki Loves Earth, som pågår under maj månad. Ditt deltagande hjälper till att dokumentera Sveriges naturreservat och nationalparker och visa upp dem för världen genom Wikipedia och andra projekt. Dessutom kan du vinna fina priser.

På tävlingssidan, Wiki Loves Earth 2019 in Sweden, finns instruktioner, regler och annat relevant för tävlingen. Om du har några frågor går det att ställa dem på tävlingens diskussionssida.

Tack,
Tävlingsorganisationen, genom Axel Pettersson, Wikimedia Sverige.

Du får det här meddelandet då du deltagit i Wiki Loves Earth tidigare. --19:46, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

• ...wow... thanks guys... now I'll have several days to do the photos! <<sarcasm>> This message is about a month too late. --Cart (talk) 20:00, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Some cleanup

Good morning Eatcha, how are things going with the Bot? I think it's clear beyond a doubt that it isn't picking up any of the withdraws and it has completely ignored the FPX that should have been closed as a "fith-day-closing" days ago even without the FPX template. I will clean up the list of the "normal" withdraws but leave your test noms. New withdrawn are coming in all the time, so there is never any shortage of those. We will still have to wait and see what happens when the noms with the different s & o templates are closed. --Cart (talk) 06:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

• A new development is also that the bot hasn't made are runs at all since 21:04, 22 May 2019, so there are a lot of 'featured' noms that are not processed. Do you know why this is? --Cart (talk) 06:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@W.carter: , Bot should pick them on the next run. I didn't knew that that they weren't using web-hooks. As I still don't have access to the tool on the tool-forge, I'm just assuming what might be the problems, the creator forgot almost everything about the tool-forge due to long time inactivity. I guess that the corn-job has pushed the source to the deployment on the tools-server, I can't confirm as I still don't have access to it. I'm traveling so I may not reply quickly. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 07:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha, ok we'll see what happens. Have a good journey, I'll keep an eye on things here in the meantime. --Cart (talk) 08:08, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha and Daniel78, I'm sorry to say but the Bot didn't do any of its three runs the last 24 hours or it didn't pick up any of the noms that had gone full time or were closed. I'm starting to get worried. I don't know what you guys are doing, but the Bot fixing is going backwards. To keep things running at FPC, I will process the skipped noms manually but I can't keep that up for long now. --Cart (talk) 07:01, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ok, something happened! :-) Not sure if you just kicked the Bot or what, but at least it went into action and closed some noms at a non-scheduled run. Thanks! --Cart (talk) 08:21, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• More good news: The Bot closed This Nom completely correct. It disregarded the small pictures and it counted the 'weak support' template. Yay! :-D However I did have to close it as 'not featured' and archive it manually so it would not get into the FP system. The Bot still ignored both 'withdraw' noms with no edits for days. --Cart (talk) 08:38, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Btw, Eatcha, when you have the time, could you please remove the {{concordo}} from the tuple. It is a polling template, not a voting template and is can be ambiguous and confusing when mixed with votes. --Cart (talk) 08:55, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

  Just A Fact: The bot will not work after as of 2020 in its current state. This is the most important thing that FPC needs to worry about. Want to know why this will happen ? The FPCBot uses python 2.7.13 and it will be dropped in 2020, what that means is the bot will not be able to work after 2019. We only have one option that is re-write the bot with Python 3.7.2 (the latest as of today). IMO we first need to save the bot then we can continue developing it. Regards, Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 10:27, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks Eatcha, I don't think anyone knew that. That is some serious news! Well, that gives us about 1½ years to work on a new one. I guess you took on more than you knew when you said yes to fixing the Bot, sorry about that! No idea who can fix that. I can only run things here at FPC, today's programming is unfortunately beyond me. --Cart (talk) 10:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• To be fair, the deprecation warning only started to show last week so is genuinely news unless one follows related developments very closely. See phab:T213287 if you're interested in more details. -- KTC (talk) 11:05, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Cart, if the bot doesn't appear to be running (as opposed to it's not doing what you think it should be doing features wise), you need to ping me to give it a kick. (Though in this case, it was crashing rather than not running at all.) -- KTC (talk) 10:37, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks KTC will do, even if I really hate all this nagging to keep things working. --Cart (talk) 10:46, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

  It's actually 6months (January 1st, 2020), per phabricator -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 11:44, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ok, thanks for clarifying. I just read it as you had written it "after 2020" means after the end of 2020 to me. I guess we better get started looking for someone to do the big work. --Cart (talk) 11:48, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

More Bot news

• When closing Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Lake Pukaki, Canterbury, New Zealand.jpg, the Bot didn't count the {{apoio|Pile-on support}} vote. --Cart (talk) 12:35, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• I'm porting the code to Python 3, by mistake(I often do these silly mistakes) I used the source which was about a year old that didn't had that template. I will add them after we finish the porting and checking it. As of the porting is going good. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 12:59, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• Unlike test.wikipedia.org there is no debugging commons where you can test it, so we are testing it here/ -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 13:02, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• The Bot is not going to retire any time soon, it's now written in python 3.7.x .KTC checked it, works fine now. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 14:19, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• Eatcha, the Bot just did a seriously weird premature closing of Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Part of Broälven nature reserve north of Brodalen.jpg. It also did the same crazy closing of a number of noms. WTF? I will correct it manually. Please get the bot working in a normal way soon! --Cart (talk) 20:21, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• Eatcha, the bot is malfunctioning per above. I already tried to undo some of the edits by it, but seeing that it will reapply these edits in the next run (as has happened on one nomination) it's best to leave the weird closings until it is fixed. The formatting is also unusual and should be looked at. – Lucas 07:50, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
• @W.carter: @Lucasbosch: , that's only because of the redirect that I mentioned below, I fixed the source It should run normal from the next run.(But why the deist page is redirected to the candidate list ? Makes no sense to me, or am I missing some thing ?) -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 14:40, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• Eatcha, it is because of the discussion archived at Commons talk:Featured picture candidates/Archive 13#Delisting reform. I'm just in for a quick change and then I'm out again for the rest of the evening. --Cart (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• The Bot ignored the {{n}} vote when it closed this nom: Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Tukuche Village-0660.jpg. --Cart (talk) 15:34, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
• I noticed that the FPC-ready-to-review placed by the bot is two blank lines separated from the rest. I thought one blank line is the standard done so far and it should be enough. Thanks again for your work. – Lucas 18:55, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
• The bot ran on schedule at 21:00 26 May, but it failed to pick up two withdrawn Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Piazza Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli fontana con satiro Brescia.jpg time-stamped 11:01 25 May and Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Caldera de Taburiente - View from Mirador de los Roques 01.jpg time-stamped 11:52 25 May. Both more than 24 hours. Let's see if it works on the next run. --Cart (talk) 21:12, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• It's nominations that have the withdrawn template, where most recent edit on the page was more than 24 hours ago. Piazza has an edit on 16:30, 26 May 2019‎, and Caldera has an edit on 04:45, 26 May 2019‎ (plus a {{FPC-results-reviewed}} which may cause it to wait till 5 days from page creation). -- KTC (talk) 21:23, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ok I only looked at the withdraw time-stamp, so we should tell people not to close the withdrawns then. When this is done, we should post the new do and don't on the talk page, but better to wait until all is tested. --Cart (talk) 21:29, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• The Bot is working! It's working! It's working! --Cart (talk) 21:11, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Some serious problems

Hey W.carter,

I see that the page https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/removal&diff=97221963&oldid=94921161 was redirected on 29 May 2013. It's not really a good Idea to redirect pages on which the bot operates, do you have any suggestions how to prevent these redirects ? But such redirects must be not be allowed without consulting the BOT operators, such small things add up and then it gets beyond the repair limit. How about indefinite page move protection for all such pages ? Regards, -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 19:59, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Eatcha, Such protections are handled by the admins, you will have to discuss that with one of them. I think the best one to talk to is the admin who made that change A.Savin. --Cart (talk) 20:18, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Info I will be offline for a while now during the weekend. --Cart (talk) 20:37, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
• A.Savin and W.carter, what do you think had caused the bot to stop picking the withdrawn and FPXed Nominations ? I'm tired of reading this code but I still don't know what's causing the problem. This was the last withdrawn image that the bot removed from the list see here. I'm planing to start a duplicate of FPC to test it, but I would like to try the advises first as it would take a lot of time. —Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 20:57, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• I have been checking talk pages from way back to see if I can find something. So far nothing. This was way before my time. I think only those present here then can help you with this, but they don't seem interested in getting involved in this discussion. --Cart (talk) 15:27, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• Withdrawn now works. FPX should work, wait and see with the test probably tomorrow. -- KTC (talk) 16:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks for helping out with this KTC. :-) I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Things seems to be coming together now. --Cart (talk) 18:36, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• Here's an idea, if folk are changing the code. How about set up an additional page for test noms and page for test results/logs/etc. The bot will check both the test page and the live page. Then you can put any test noms with random templates and votes and withdrawals, without disrupting the live FPC. -- Colin (talk) 18:25, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Colin: The idea has already been floated by Eatcha, but it is not as simple as it sound. That would require a duplicate of both FPC and all the pages connected to it and the BOT (which is over 1000 lines of code). The best thing is to test it on the actual site since some of the things disrupting it probably were old redirects to various parts of the FP project from other parts of Commons; that is hard to replicate in a test study. It is finally coming to an end soon, you just have to be patient a little while longer. You know how it is when you have workers renovating your house/apartment; it's a total mess for a short while but the end-result is worth the inconvenience. The rest of the FPC gang seems to be taking this in stride and so far all nominations have been handled correctly, one way or the other. No votes have been mislaid and no promotions have been botched. --Cart (talk) 18:48, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

• I'm thinking more about if the code needs a considerable rewrite due to the Python version change. It is always easier to refactor code, and be more bold in refactoring, if you have plenty tests and freedom to test. -- Colin (talk) 10:28, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Colin: Of course a totally new re-write would be the best option, you just need to find someone to do it. As things are at the moment, we are incredible lucky to have Eatcha doing all this fixing for us. He and KTC have been very generous with their time and knowledge. And as stated above "The Bot is not going to retire any time soon, it's now written in python 3.7.x .KTC checked it, works fine now.". It will run for some years now and during that time, perhaps new users with programming skills will show up here to help us out. We should not scare away good people doing much needed volunteer work by demanding too much. --Cart (talk) 10:52, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Colin: Python version changes can be fixed in minutes with https://pypi.org/project/2to3/ . I used this library, it's not that hard anyone can use 2to3 library. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 10:57, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Colin: V.IMP if you plan to use 2to3, keep in mind it can not convert the encryption codes. You can just remove the codes that encrypt/decrypt and convert it using 2to3, but you must convert the hashing codes yourself. -- Eatcha (Talk-Page) - ^{ping me} 11:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Outdoor photos ...

Hi there, I understand your reply here to be—at least partically—a hint towards my photos, of course what you are saying there is valid for many people.

I have respect for all the people taking and nominating outdoor photos, something I have seldom done and strive to be able to do more. If there are things you want to tell me regarding how I review FP candidates, I'm genuinely open to feedback and always strive to become better. I always return to the FPC for the high bar of quality and the civil discussions about photography so anything that would improve that for other people is highly welcomed.

Regarding technical defects such as the posterization: as everyone is viewing these pictures under vastly different conditions with different gear, some artifacts can jump out much more to one reviewer than other people might realize. So as a result other people might think the one reviewer complaining about that almost invisible thing is nitpicky, where in reality it's really well visible on his setup. The posterization in your photo is by no means that kind of obvious, but very much worth fixing IMHO. If no other people other than me see it that way, I'm very much OK with that. ;).

Please don't feel pressured to reply in detail, if there's not that much to say to me alone and there are more general problems at hand, don't waste your time here. – Lucas^T 14:13, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

No worries Lucas. I am often frustrated by photographers at FPC making impossible demands on photos taken in situations they haven't tried themselves. Usually this is wrt sports photos or photos with people moving about in badly lit interiors. Demands are made that they should have the same technical quality as photos made under perfect conditions.

I am always struggling here since I don't have the fancy cameras all the other photographers have. I know the limits of my cameras and I usually stay within them. Posterization on gradients is one of the shortcomings I am very well aware of, and I usually don't nominate photos where that can be an issue. Trying to fix it usually makes it worse. But having these rather "cheap" cameras can also be an advantage in some situations. No one in their right mind would even consider taking their expensive cameras and lenses into the cold damp environment a foggy winter fjord has to offer. But I can try it since I don't have to be equally careful with my cameras. So I test things "outside the box", doing things no one else does. Sometime it works, most of the times not. In this case, there are reasons why we don't have any similar FP night photos with fog. So when one occurs I think we could be a bit lenient wrt quality.

When I look at and vote for photos, my first priority is always composition. After that comes how it was treated in post-processing, enhanced or ruined. Last comes technical quality. At FPC though, most people do this prioritization in reverse. --Cart (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Dead sea tree

Hi :)

Just wanted to say that to get to the little salt island with the tree on it you need to swim 200 meters.. So its not so "easy to get" and unless you have a boat there you cant bring a seriously good camera  :) So i choose my gopro :)

Thank for the support.. and the picture edit . Eranrez (talk) 16:02, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi there Eranrez, thanks for not getting mad at me for the photo edit. I do want to give all photos at FPC the very best chance they can get. :) I hope my edit will gain you some support votes. What I meant by "easy to get to" is that the country's borders are not closed and there are busses or cars that can take you to the shore. The rest is just logistics. A "good camera" can also mean a better drone camera, there are several good drone pilots with professional gear on Commons. At FPC "hard" is very relative, you'd be surprised what some photographers will do to get their photos. :) --Cart (talk) 16:15, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image File:Fishing hut, jetties and boats in Loddebo.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Fishing hut, jetties and boats in Loddebo.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

/FPCBot (talk) 21:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

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/FPCBot (talk) 21:01, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

August

Hello!

So I'm planning my Wikimania trip to Stockholm and trying to decide if I want to extend my stay by a couple days before or after for exploration, etc. Thought I'd ask if you were aware of any variables that make one way or the other. If I were going to find a way to leave the city for a day, is there a particular destination you'd recommend? Finally, I think last we talked about it you were unsure -- do you know if you'll be able to make the event? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  00:01, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi there Rhod!

I still don't know if will be able to go. The odds are now about 60-40 in favor of my going.

I'd recommend you take the extra days before the event. If you want to make the most of your stay in Sweden, avoid Sundays and Mondays. Fridays and Saturdays are about partying so on Saturdays things run at half speed. Shops close early and buses and trains are not as frequent as during weekdays. Sundays are even slower with even less public transportation and more closed shops. It all starts again in a slightly chaotic way on Monday. Museums, art institutions, cultural things, etc. are traditionally closed on Mondays since they are open during weekends. Only some have extra staff during summer to be open all days.

Stockholm, Venice of the North, is all about water and archipelagos. It originated at the crossroads of some vital waterways and they are still valid. For a day-trip, I would recommend taking one of the many boats to some location. For a more contemporary experience, you go east into the salty Baltic archipelago and for a lazier turn-of-previous-century experience, you go west into the sweet water archipelago of Lake Mälaren. The boats depart from the heart of the city, eastward from Grand Hotel on Blasieholmen or Standvägen and westward from the City Hall. The city extends north and south from the "hub" Gamla Stan, so anything east and west is an 'escape to the country' and not far away.

• For a short trip east, I'd recommend going to Waxholm (also easy to access by bus) and for a longer trip Sandhamn.
• For a short trip west I'd say Drottningholm (also easy to access by bus) and for a longer Mariefred. As you might see from the articles, all places guarantee lots of really good photo opportunities.
• You can also escape the city within the city by going to Djurgården. Art, museums, history, parks, nature, good food and photo ops galore!

For a New Yorker, everything about Stockholm will seem smaller and older so you might find it a relaxing trip. :-) --Cart (talk) 09:37, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

• Btw, really great collection of portraits from BookCon Rhod! (Yes, I'm checking up on you from time to time. ) Good tech, angle, eye for subjects. If only the was a Photoshop feature for auto-removal of lanyards and disturbing logos... How on earth did you keep track of all the names!?! Ok, I know some of them, but all, nope. The osprey with the snake is also cool. --Cart (talk) 19:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for all of this! I still have not made my plans concrete yet, but I will likely take your advice and book the time before the event rather than after. There are some tours, etc. set up for Wikimania attendees, too, that I will likely check out. You should really consider leading one for the Commoners one of the days. :) Also thanks re: BookCon. Keeping names straight is easy enough -- after I take their picture I just take a picture of the sign or, if no sign, their book cover. :) — Rhododendrites ^talk |  02:57, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Photo walk in Stockholm

It's only a few weeks until Wikimania 2019 in Sweden. I'd like to invite you to the Commons Photographer's photo walk. If you're planning on going to Stockholm in August, please consider joining this event. This is an opportunity to connect with other photographers, have fun together, and explore the beauty of an iconic Scandinavian city… All the best, --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 03:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for the canned message ;-) Hope to get to know you in person on that occasion. Heja Sverige! --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 04:00, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Frank, still not sure yet if I'll be able to go. For more info about Stockholm, see section User talk:W.carter#August above. --Cart (talk) 09:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't notice that… thanks, that's very helpful! Hope you can make it – would be great to connect in person! All the best, --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 13:05, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

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/FPCBot (talk) 21:01, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

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/FPCBot (talk) 21:03, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Q13137483 Category:Pingoruïnes

Thank you very much for your help. Sincerely,--Famberhorst (talk) 10:35, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome. I found it when I was helping Agnes. :-) --Cart (talk) 10:38, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Ellis Island

Thanks for the new version. I had gone over it manually, but there were patches that seemed not like a purple fringe but where it would be necessary to basically either desaturate the whole area or selectively desaturate blues across the image. Since it looks like parts of glass without plant behind it are changed a little, did you do something like the latter? (along with boosting the greens?) — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:35, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, the whole process was a bit more complicated than that, so please bear with me. I didn't boost any greens, I just didn't allow the CA removal to desaturate them.

1. I took the first version (always go as original as possible) to Lightroom and pulled the sliders to get rid of as much CA as possible. Now this resulted in desatureted green plants, since the green was so close to the CA hue, and I also got a lot of those gray areas that comes with too much CA correction. See Commons:Photography terms#Chromatic aberration removal mishap. But never mind that.
2. I took this version and put it as a layer over the original photo in PS. Then I erased from the top layer, all the areas that actually should be green but had been dulled by the program, so that the original colors, but not CA, were seen through "the holes". I find this way easier to work with than masking and other finesses.
3. Then I merged the layers and enlarged it to 200%, an easy size to work with when you do color substitution. I used the drop tool to select and brush to correct some residual green an red CA, mostly along the frames of the window panes. I did some light correcting of the branches top left too, but not that much since most of it was just tint from the window pane.

This is all easier to do than to write about, I hope you didn't doze off somewhere in the middle. :-) --Cart (talk) 14:04, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Wikimania Stockholm

In case someone wonders, I will not be able to attend Wikimania Stockholm. Sorry, I had high hopes but it didn't work out. --Cart (talk) 07:51, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah! Sorry to hear. If not the conference, do you think you'd have the time to grab food and/or drink one of those days? I don't recall how far you are from Stockholm. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  04:53, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey Rhod, yea it's a bummer. :-( I was really looking forward to seeing one of these events and meet other photographers. As my photos probably indicates, I live in Lysekil on the other side of Sweden. It's about as far west from Stockholm as you can possibly get. With no direct connections between the cities, it's seven hours by busses and trains for me to get to Stockholm, so I can't just hop over. Even so, I have the time but with tickets, hotel, fees and everything, I simply can't afford it at the moment. Hopefully there will be other occasions. --Cart (talk) 09:26, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

FP Promotion

75px|center|

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/FPCBot (talk) 21:06, 19 July 2019 (UTC)