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Mulțumesc pentru încărcarea Monitoarelor Oficiale din noiembrie 1944. Dar, din păcate, din acea listă lipsește nr. 278 partea I din 30 noiembrie 1944. Nu aveți posibilitatea să-l încărcați și pe acela? Vă mulțumesc anticipat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catomiz (talk • contribs) 06:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
Please help
editHello, thank you for your Information about "FOP in Finland does not include statues" (my File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Denkmal zur Erinnerung an Maria Purpur (1358).jpg). In Kotka I made some more pictures, also 1 in Kokkola. Are they okay or should they also be deleted, now I'm not shure? Here they are:
- File:2017-089-02 HS-Reise Ehrenmal auf Friedhof an Stadtkirche Kotka (1391).jpg
- File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Ehrenmal "Zu Ehren der Arbeit im Hafen" (1323).jpg
- File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Ehrenmal "Zu Ehren der Arbeit im Hafen" (1318).jpg
- File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Statue "Kotkat" (Eagles) im Sibelius Park (1298).jpg
- File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Statue "Kotkat" (Eagles) im Sibelius Park (1293).jpg
- File:2017-09-02 HS-Reise Kotka Statue "Kotkat" (Eagles) im Sibelius Park (1292).jpg
- File:2017-03-21 Findling in Kokkola.jpg
Thank you very much for your help. --Eduard47 (talk) 15:00, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Eduard47, and first I have to thank you for so many nice photographs of the harbours and ports in Finland!
- I have made this same mistake with FOP myself. It is possible to upload a file of the statue in the Finnish (or Deutsch) wikipedia and use the file in an article about the statue and/or artist -> e.g. fi:Luettelo Kotkan julkisista taideteoksista ja muistomerkeistä. However if the statue is not the main element in the picture I think it is eligible to the commons: of the pictures above I think two pictures of Eagles sculpture could be such. The harbour workers (which is commonly known as Plankendiebe) statue is by Oskari Jauhiainen (1913-1990), the Eagles statue is by Jussi Mäntynen (1886-1978) and the "herostatue" near the Kotka church is by Emil Filén (1890-1953). The statue (fi:J. V. Snellmanin muistomerkki (Kokkola)) in Kokkola is by Pekka Jylhä (born 1955). Did this help at all ;) --Estormiz (talk) 18:18, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Estormiz, many thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately I am still very uncertain. May I leave the decision to you and ask you to submit the deletion requests? Thank you in advance for your help. Greetings from Hamburg --Eduard47 (talk) 18:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hello, I will submit the deletion requests for all of the files above. I will add comment on the two photos that there are much more in the pictures than just the statue. Let's see what will be decided. And greetings from very cold (-16°C) and windy Oulu --Estormiz (talk) 18:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help, let us wait, what is decided. --Eduard47 (talk) 18:52, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hello, I will submit the deletion requests for all of the files above. I will add comment on the two photos that there are much more in the pictures than just the statue. Let's see what will be decided. And greetings from very cold (-16°C) and windy Oulu --Estormiz (talk) 18:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Estormiz, many thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately I am still very uncertain. May I leave the decision to you and ask you to submit the deletion requests? Thank you in advance for your help. Greetings from Hamburg --Eduard47 (talk) 18:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Taas purkutöitä...
editJos et ole hetkeen liikkunut Tuirassa Kaarretien suunnalla, niin vain tiedoksi, että ovat nyt aloittaneet Kaarre 14:n koulurakennuksen purkutyöt.
--Methem (talk) 10:16, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Ps. Vaivaan sinua näillä purkuviesteillä silloin tällöin vain siksi, etten itse kuvaa nykään aktiivisesti, joten tuskin tuotakaan "demoliitiota" tulee kuvailtua.
- Pitääpä yrittää käydä siellä. Viimeksi en ehtinyt Kaijonharjussa nähdä kuin tyhjän tontin ;) --Estormiz (talk) 11:31, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Ovat taas jatkaneet tuota purkamista, pitkän tauon jälkeen. Ehkä ne nyt vievät sen urakan loppuun asti. :) --Methem (talk) 07:37, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- Kunhan ilmat vähän viilenee ja jaksaa taas lähteä kuvailemaan, niin pitääpä käydä katsastamassa --Estormiz (talk) 11:04, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Purkutöistä pitkästä aikaa: "Termiitit" aloittivat tänään Oulun Tarmon entisen rakennuksen jauhamisen Välivainiolla. (Huomaan, että olet ko. talosta pari kuvaa tänne aikaisemmin lisännyt.) Eipä noin suhteellisen pienen puurakennuksen repimisessä taida kauaa mennä... --Methem (talk) 16:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Pitääpä käydä viikonloppuna Välivainiolla. Toivottavasti on silloin vielä jotain jäljellä. --Estormiz (talk) 16:34, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Kun tulin Ruskosta töistä tänään perjantaina iltapäivällä, Tarmontien puoleista julkisivua ainakin oli hyvin vielä jäljellä. Ovat aloittaneet ne purkuhommat sieltä sisäpihan puolelta. --Methem (talk) 15:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- Hyvin ehdin :) -> Category:Demolition of Tarmontie 24, Oulu --Estormiz (talk) 15:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- Jep. --Methem (talk) 14:47, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
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Kahvihuonekeskustelu skannattujen valokuvien oikeuksista
editHei! Avasin kahvihuoneessa museoiden ja sanomalehtien skannaamien valokuvien oikeuksia koskevan keskustelun, johon ehkä haluat ottaa kantaa. ––Apalsola t • c 06:40, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
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Your template TakenEstormiz
editHi, sorry for my English: can you change your Template:TakenEstormiz to bring out the categories of photography in Italy by date? For exeple File:Vicolo de' Cinque Rome 20130307.jpg from Category:Photographs taken on 2013-03-07 to Category:Italy photographs taken on 2013-03-07? Thanks :-) --Threecharlie (talk) 06:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I changed the template so that when in Italy then categories Italy photographs taken on date will be used. --Estormiz (talk) 13:53, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
- Tanks :-) --Threecharlie (talk) 11:22, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I changed the template so that when in Italy then categories Italy photographs taken on date will be used. --Estormiz (talk) 13:53, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
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Monthbyyear
editHello Estormiz. Please see my answer on my page. --Babu (talk) 12:49, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
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Categorization
edit@Estormiz: noticing your categorization, imo this is not Courcelles in Belgium but most probably in France. Lotje (talk) 09:37, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- I changed the categories, but could not find a new location category for the photograph so I moved it to Unidentified locations in France. --Estormiz (talk) 21:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- Okay thanks Estormiz, if I find out where it was, I'll give you a buzz. Lotje (talk) 11:27, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Round 2 of Picture of the Year 2018 is open!
editDear Estormiz,
You are receiving this message because we noticed that you voted in R1 of the 2018 Picture of the Year contest, but not yet in the second round. Wikimedia users are invited to vote for their favorite images featured on Commons during the last year (2018) to produce a single Picture of the Year.
Hundreds of images that have been rated Featured Pictures by the international Wikimedia Commons community in the past year were entered in this competition. These images include professional animal and plant shots, breathtaking panoramas and skylines, restorations of historical images, photographs portraying the world's best architecture, impressive human portraits, and so much more.
There are two total rounds of voting. In the first round, you voted for as many images as you liked.
In the final (and current) round, you may vote for a maximum of three images. The image with the most votes will become the Picture of the Year 2018.
Round 2 will end 17 March 2019, 23:59:59.
Thanks,
the Wikimedia Commons Picture of the Year committee 18:04, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Oulu WLM
editHello, I took some photos of Oulu which were marked as missing on the WLM map. Only then I realised you already had photos for most of them, named after the address. I have edited the Wikidata items so that they link the categories and relevant image (checking with the coordinates and other images in the same category), hopefully I did not make too many mistakes.
By the way, if you want to meet up in Oulu this week for a tea together or something it would be great. :) Nemo 08:03, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
- Hello Nemo, and thank you for uploading pictures of Oulu. And do not worry about categories and such, I am sure they will be checked and corrected if there are any problems. I guess I will also have to look at the WLM Map - thank you for the tip. I work in the town center so I might be able to meet you over cup of tea (or coffee) tomorrow. On Friday I am busy all day. If you have got time tomorrow, please let me know by email -> Special:EmailUser/Estormiz --Estormiz (talk) 11:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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Source of derivative work is not properly indicated: File:Montage Pokkinen Oulu.jpg
editThis file may be deleted. |
A file that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, File:Montage Pokkinen Oulu.jpg, is a derivative work, containing an "image within an image". Examples of such works would include a photograph of a sculpture, a scan of a magazine cover, or a map that has been altered from the original. In each of these cases, the rights of the creator of the original must be considered, as well as those of the creator of the derivative work.
While the description page states who made this derivative work, it currently doesn't specify who created the original work, so the overall copyright status is unclear. If you did not create the original work depicted in this image, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. Please edit the file description and add the missing information, or the file may be deleted. If you created the original content yourself, enter this information as the source. If someone else created the content, the source should be the address to the web page where you found it, the name and ISBN of the book you scanned it from, or similar. You should also name the author, provide verifiable information to show that the content is in the public domain or has been published under a free license by its author, and add an appropriate template identifying the public domain or licensing status, if you have not already done so. Please add the required information for this and other files you have uploaded before adding more files. If you need assistance, please ask at the help desk. Thank you! |
Maxinvestigator (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
- Done. I Am the author of all of the photographs in my montages. --Estormiz (talk) 13:53, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
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Overcategorizations with template:TakenEstormiz
editCan you please edit your auto-categorization template {{TakenEstormiz}} to avoid over-categorization as in File:Kuusiluoto oulu 20030906.jpg? Thanks for your attention. :-) --Threecharlie (talk) 15:55, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
- I removed the year limit, so it should be OK now. --Estormiz (talk) 17:01, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Patsaan vuosiluku
editHei, näissä kuvaamissasi patsaskuvissa File:Praying Soldier Evert Porila Kemi 1924.jpg & File:Praying Soldier Evert Porila Kemi 1924b.jpg näyttäisi olevan väärä vuosiluku, ja olet itsekin korjannut sen kuvan tietoihin. Mitäs sanot, jos pyytäisin kuvien uudelleenimeämistä esim. niin, että niistä poistetaan kokonaan vuosiluku, jottei se näkyisi esim. silloin, kun joku googlaa patsasta. Kemin kaupungin sivut väittävät, että se olisi 1924, mutta epäilen sen olevan virhe. Voisin tehdä nimenvaihtopyynnön, jos se on sinusta OK. -kyykaarme (talk) 17:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
- Ilman muuta OK! Kiitos jos viitsit sen tehdä. --Estormiz (talk) 05:07, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
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Date categories
editHave the changes of month categories to date categories been discussed somewhere? Now Category:June 2010 Finland photographs has been diffused into 26 date categories, half of which have less than five files. What is the use case which benefits from the change? If I want a photo from that month I have to click on every individual date to see what is available (or use catscan, not widely known by outsiders and somewhat cumbersome also for me). Why would I be interested in a photo from a certain date, unless I want a photo from a certain event, which should be handled by an event category? --LPfi (talk) 12:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- If you look at the date categories under Category:June 2010 Finland photographs you can see that none of them are made by me. I removed the overlapping month category of the photographs, that were already in a date category.
- But, in my opinion photographs by date categories are much more helpful than photographs by month categories. As you put it: why would I be interested in a photo from a certain country in a certain month? There is no benefit for any ordinary user to have e.g. File:Ankkuri Kirjurin kärjessä 3.jpg in the Category:June 2010 Finland photographs or File:Rauli Somerjoen hauta.jpg in the Category:June 2010 in Finland. For a regular user both day and month categories are mostly useless. However the date categories are quite useful for those uploading photos, it is much easier to check if you have already uploaded the photograph in a small date category than in a month category with hundreds and hundreds of files. So I think the date categories are useful for uploaders, and furthermore date categories are hidden from ordinary users so they do not bother users. --Estormiz (talk) 16:45, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
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File:Isokatu 30 Oulu 20201023.jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.
If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues. |
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Category:Works in Turkey by year
editHi. Thanks for opening the Category:Works in Turkey by year. I observe a small issue there, there must be a need to make a small adjustment at the template. If you notice, the subcats are not in chronological order. Thanks for your interest and cheers. Category:Works in Turkey by year
- The problem is that there are two templates used: Template:WorksTurkey and Template:WorksTurkeyCat. The "WorksTurkey" template is used more often and its name is consistent with most of the similar templates, so categories with "WorksTurkeyCat" should be changed to "WorksTurkey", and could it be possible to just remove the other unused template? -Estormiz (talk) 09:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
In addition, I noticed that you've made a malformed deletion request. When you want to delete a file by manually using the {{Delete}} template, please remember to follow the instructions in the template, including the "Click here to show further instructions" portion, otherwise you will create a lot of work for other people. — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 14:19, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- Ok, I will remember next time. Estormiz (talk) 15:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- You made another here. — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 19:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Keminmaan uusi kirkko
editSisätiloista ei ole yhtään kuvaa. Liikutko sielläpäin jossain vaiheessa?--Russellin teekannu (talk) 11:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Olen kyllä liikkunut, mutta kirkko ei ole ollut auki tai siellä on ollut hautajaiset tms yksityistilaisuus. Finna.fi sivustolta löytyisi kyllä pari kuvaa, jotka voisi ladata commonsiin -> https://finna.fi/Search/Results?lookfor=keminmaa knapas&type=AllFields&filter[]=~usage_rights_str_mv:"usage_C"&dfApplied=1&limit=100 Estormiz (talk) 12:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Latasin nyt nuo kuvat myös commonsiin, löytyvät Category:Keminmaa Church luokasta. Estormiz (talk) 06:52, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
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NARA TIF files
editHello,
I was told by Pi.1415926535 on my talk page that .tif files with categorized .jpg files should go in to Category:NARA TIF images with categorized JPGs for a variety of reasons to avoid problems. Krok6kola (talk) 22:08, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- I should have looked more closely before I reverted your edit. I acted too hastily. Sorry for the extra work I caused. --Estormiz (talk) 16:43, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
— Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 19:25, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
⭐ A file you uploaded is on the main page! ⭐
File:Angela Oulu 20210724.webm, that you uploaded, is on the main page today. Thank you for your contributions to this project. |
Purkutöitä 2022–
editMennikäisentie 3:n purkutöitä Puolivälinkankaalla on tehty jo jonkin aikaa. Tarkoitus on pitemmän päälle teilata kai kaksi taloa. Siellä on 2-3 kaivinkonetta töissä; yksi aika ulottuvallakin varrella. --Methem (talk) 06:43, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
- Ehdin hyvin -> Category:Demolition of Menninkäisentie 3, Oulu (1967) - ilmeisesti purkutyöt ovat alkaneet viime vuoden puolella? Estormiz (talk) 10:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
- Juu, ovat olleet töissä jo ehkä muutamankin viikon, tai jotain sellaista. En ole niin tarkkaan seurannut. --Methem (talk) 15:04, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Näyttäisi Vallinkorvan entisen metsäkoulun rakennus olevan purkutöiden kohteena. Lähellä sijainneet matalat asuntolat on jo pyyhkäisty maan tasalle. --Methem (talk) 05:24, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Purkavat rakennuksia siihen tahtiin, ettei aina ehdi edes kuvata niitä ehjänä ennen kuin ne jo puretaan :) Estormiz (talk) 17:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Jep. --Methem (talk) 05:19, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Muhoksella liikkuville: Ovat aloittamassa keskustassa K-supermarket Mimmin (Valtatie 20) vieressä olevan entisen K-marketin purkamisen. --Methem (talk) 14:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Viereiseellä Hesburgerilla olen joskus käynyt, mutta K-Market ei varmaankaan ole sattunut kuviin. Taitaa jäädä siis taas jotain kuvaamattakin ;) Estormiz (talk) 16:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Eipä tuossa mitään erityisen esteettistä menetetä. :-) --Methem (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Hei, olethan jo Kangastiellä käynyt kuvaamassa? :-) Siellä menee nyt Mäntykoti matalaksi. --Methem (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Huomasin, että olivat aidanneet pari viikkoa sitten. Pitää viikonloppuna käydä katsomassa. Ja ilmeisesti viereinen ensi- ja turvakotikin on purkulistalla. Estormiz (talk) 17:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
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Sub-categories
editGreetings. Per this edit, isn't the category June 2021 Finland photographs still applicable? The category 2021 in Kuopio doesn't seem to lead to the former at all. I likely have it wrong, but if you could explain it, that would help me out. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- You are right on that, but the file also belongs to Category:Finland photographs taken on 2021-06-19 which is subcategory of june photographs. Estormiz (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, the hidden categories. The small text made me overlook that. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 12:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
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Why ?
edithttps://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Italy_in_the_190s&oldid=prev&diff=800398738 In the list they are all in the wrong position ! DenghiùComm (talk) 19:43, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
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Please help
editMulțumesc pentru încărcarea Monitoarelor Oficiale din luna noiembrie 1944. Dar, din păcate, din acea listă lipsește nr. 278 partea I din 30 noiembrie 1944. Nu aveți posibilitatea să-l încărcați și pe acela. Vă mulțumesc anticipat. Catomiz (talk) 06:08, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Catomiz, I have not uploaded Monitorul Oficial pages - it was done by some bot. I have just added them into categories. You might try to find pages from the original source. Regards, Estormiz (talk) 11:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
File:Ruovesi church poor man statue 20110706.JPG has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.
If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues. |
Htm (talk) 00:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Moi. Siirsin vaivaisukkkokuvan fi-wikiiin nimelle fi:Tiedosto:Ruoveden kirkon vaivaisukko by Marko Salminen 1993 20110706.jpg ja vaihdoin kuvan kahteen luetteloon (Ruoveden patsasluettelo ja Suomen vaivaisukkoluettelo). Tämä vaivaisukko onkin uudempi kuin on luultu, seurakunnan www-sivujen mukaan Marko Salminen veistänyt 1993. Seurakunnalla on sivujen mukaan kaksi vanhempaakin ukkoa, mutta ne ovat kirkossa sisällä. Tätä ei valitettevasti voi pitää Commonsissa. Terv., Htm (talk) 00:34, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
- Kiitos! Estormiz (talk) 16:58, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Tornio kuukausittain
editVuodelle 2024 alkoi Torniosta olla jo sen verran kuvia, että päätin luoda tuon Month by year in Tornio -mallineen ja ainakin alustavasti muutamia aiheeseen liittyviä luokkia. Voit siis säätää TakenEstormiz-templaattiasi sen mukaisesti ja tietenkin lisätä puuttuvia kuukausiluokkia Tornio-kuvia(si) varten. --Methem (talk) 05:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Templatea säädetty. Pitänee nyt kaivella varastoja, josko löytyisi julkaisemattomia kuvia Torniosta. Estormiz (talk) 08:40, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hienoa. Minä jatkan tätä kuvieni manuaalista luokittelua (vanhanaikainen immeinen) näin vapaapäivän kunniaksi. Siirryn itsekin noiden luokittelutyökalujen käyttöön viimeistään, kun pitää tehdä vähintään tuhansia luokittelumuutoksia per päivä. *Iskee isoa silmää* --Methem (talk) 08:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Olisi ihan hyvä, jos sinulla olisi joku kuva, jossa näkyisi ainakin osittain tuo edesmennyt tavaratalo Öömanni, ex-Sokos. Eihän se hieno rakennus ollut, mutta olipahan kuitenkin osa keskeistä kaupunkikuvaa vuosikymmenien ajan. --Methem (talk) 08:49, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yritän etsiä kuvaa Öömannista, mutta voi olla ettei löydy, kun tulee kuvattua lähinnä vanhoja rakennuksia ja monesti vielä ihan samoja. Pitäisi kuvata kyllä aina joka suuntaan, kun eihän tässä tarvitse enää filmiä säästellä Estormiz (talk) 09:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Eipä tuo ole maailmaa kaatava asia. Itse en sitä rakennusta koskaan oikein vaivautunut kuvaamaan, kun ei se tosiaan ollut arkkitehtuurisesti mitenkään erikoinen saati jännittävä... --Methem (talk) 09:12, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Öömanni näkynee tässä kuvassa kaupungintalon vasemmalla puolella? File:Puutarhakatu Tornio 20110310.jpg Estormiz (talk) 16:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Kyllä, koivujen takana. --Methem (talk) 16:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Öömanni näkynee tässä kuvassa kaupungintalon vasemmalla puolella? File:Puutarhakatu Tornio 20110310.jpg Estormiz (talk) 16:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Eipä tuo ole maailmaa kaatava asia. Itse en sitä rakennusta koskaan oikein vaivautunut kuvaamaan, kun ei se tosiaan ollut arkkitehtuurisesti mitenkään erikoinen saati jännittävä... --Methem (talk) 09:12, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yritän etsiä kuvaa Öömannista, mutta voi olla ettei löydy, kun tulee kuvattua lähinnä vanhoja rakennuksia ja monesti vielä ihan samoja. Pitäisi kuvata kyllä aina joka suuntaan, kun eihän tässä tarvitse enää filmiä säästellä Estormiz (talk) 09:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)