Commons talk:Babel

Box styles

Looking at user pages, I am pleased to found long lists of languages :)

Then, I want to propose a more compact box style for templates, to flexibilize page design. I added the language-level code and links to categories in the box. Did you like this snapshots? Is 240px a good width? Is it enough for verbose languages?

Example:

es-3	Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel avanzado de español.

en-2	This user is able to contribute with a intermediate level of English.

This is my user page.... bla bla bla

Well, if you like it, we can complete the following "matrix" to see the full snapshot. Thanks! --Pybalo 17:18, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

en-1	This user is able to contribute with a basic level of English.

en-2	This user is able to contribute with a intermediate level of English.

en-3	This user is able to contribute with a advanced level of English.

es-1	Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel básico de español.

es-2	Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel intermedio de español.

es-3	Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel avanzado de español.

fr-1

...

That looks great. I like it. I'll make the boxes for Esperanto and Hebrew when I get home. Nadavspi 18:00, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cool. Please use them! -- Chris 73 22:30, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just updated most of the templates except hebrew, chinese, and the polish one is done by TOR -- Chris 73 23:12, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well! But you works too fast! jajaja. Now I can see that "da" is a verbose language, because the box 240px x 45px is not enough for its texts. For checking, I will put all the templates here, to find the best box size, or the best text-size font or the best texts... Ok? Some suggestions for "da-1" and zh-....? --Pybalo 00:28, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am adding the text style "line-height:1.25em" in templates for a maximum box height of 45px. Somebody can check my hyphenation of german templates? --Pybalo 12:53, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I noted that we are missing an important detail! Please add the pagename variable to templates:

[[:Category:User xx|{{PAGENAME}}]]  [[:Category:User xx-N|{{PAGENAME}}]]

Thanks! --Pybalo 14:18, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC) Love it! BetterMediaFactor (talk) 00:18, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

da-1

Denne bruger kan skrive dansk på et grundlæggende niveau.

da-2

Denne brugers kendskab til dansk er på mellemniveau.

da-3

Denne bruger kan bidrage på flydende dansk.

de-1

Dieser Benutzer hat grundlegende Deutschkenntnisse.

de-2

Dieser Benutzer hat fortgeschrittene Deutschkenntnisse.

de-3

Dieser Benutzer hat sehr gute Deutschkenntnisse.

en-1

This user is able to contribute with a basic level of English.

en-2

This user is able to contribute with an intermediate level of English.

en-3

This user is able to contribute with an advanced level of English.

eo-1

Ĉi tiu uzanto povas komuniki per baza nivelo de Esperanto.

eo-2

Ĉi tiu uzanto povas komuniki per meza nivelo de Esperanto.

eo-3

Ĉi tiu uzanto povas komuniki per alta aŭ flua nivelo de Esperanto.

es-1

Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel básico de español.

es-2

Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel intermedio de español.

es-3

Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel avanzado de español.

fr-1

Cette personne peut contribuer avec un niveau élémentaire de français.

fr-2

Cette personne peut contribuer avec un niveau intermédiaire de français.

fr-3

Cette personne peut contribuer avec un niveau avancé de français.

he-1

משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה בסיסית של עברית

he-2

משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה בינונית של עברית

he-3

משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה מתקדמת של עברית

is-1

Þessi notandi hefur einhverja kunnáttu á íslensku máli.

is-2

Þessi notandi hefur miðlungs-þekkingu á íslensku máli.

is-3

Þessi notandi hefur mjög góð tök á íslensku máli.

ja-1

この利用者は初歩的な日本語を理解します。

ja-2

この利用者は中級レベルの日本語を理解します。

ja-3

この利用者は高度なレベルの日本語を理解します。

nl-1

Deze gebruiker heeft elementaire kennis van het Nederlands.

nl-2

Deze gebruiker heeft middelmatige kennis van het Nederlands.

nl-3

Deze gebruiker spreekt uitstekend Nederlands.

pl-1

Ten użytkownik posługuje się językiem polskim na poziomie podstawowym.

pl-2

Ten użytkownik posługuje się językiem polskim na poziomie średnio zaawansowanym.

pl-3

Ten użytkownik posługuje się językiem polskim na poziomie zaawansowanym.

zh-1

該用戶能以基本的中文進行交流。
该用户能以基本的中文进行交流。

zh-2

該用戶能以一般的中文進行交流。
该用户能以一般的中文进行交流。

zh-3

該用戶能以熟練的中文進行交流。
该用户能以熟练的中文进行交流。

nan-1

Chit-ê iōng-chiá tha̍k-siá Hō-ló-oē ē lêng-le̍k sī chho͘-kip. 此個用者讀寫鶴佬話的能力是初級。

nan-2

Chit-ê iōng-chiá tha̍k-siá Hō-ló-oē ē lêng-le̍k sī tiong-téng. 此個用者讀寫鶴佬話的能力是中等。

nan-3

Chit-ê iōng-chiá tha̍k-siá Hō-ló-oē ē lêng-le̍k sī ko-téng. 此個用者讀寫鶴佬話的能力是高等。

Native speakers

I am missing a destinction between "fluent" and "native" speakers. I'm quite fluent in english, but not nearly as good as a native speaker. So, should I list as en-2 or en-3? maybe we should create en-4 for natives, or change the text of the templates so that en-2 means "pretty good" (fluent) and en-3 means "native/perfect". What do you think? -- Duesentrieb 22:41, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Transcripting the Village pump talk

I think in 3 basic levels:

1. Basic-Elemental. Can read and understood, but writing...

2. Medium-Normal. Can read and write decently

3. Advanced. Can resolve complicated or obfuscated expressions, like a native speaker or a lingüist

What level are you? And me? I think that I am en-1 or en-2, and es-3. --Pybalo 02:27, 7 Nov 2004

I prefer your second option. I think that this categories must help to know us and be carefully about our different language skills. I think that en-3 users must be native/perfect, persons that don't have doubts writing English... After I was wrote this, I'm thinking in downgrade to me to en-1 level...;) --Pybalo 23:05, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think three levels are enough. I consider level 3 someone who can write an article in that language with only few spelling or grammar errors. Also, the levels are only used to give other users an idea about your language ability, I.e. with level 1 they can ask you questions and assume you understand what they ask, and with level 3 they can ask you for help to check a text. If you 're not sure if you're level 2 or level 3, I'd suggest you throw a coin, since practically it won't make much difference. Of course, you should give it every effort to improve your language ability, which you can practice by contributiong to wikipedia. No go write an article ;) Chris 73 23:53, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree [with the 3-level system]. Linguists who do transcriptions of everyday speech routinely find so-called grammatical errors, i.e. systematic usage of the language in a way that doe not conform to prescription (how the language ought to be used). In other words, native speakers are not necessarily "perfect" if the prescriptive norm is applied. Within Commons -- a repository of primarily non-textual elements -- communications rather than picture-perfect :) copyediting is more important. A-giâu 21:32, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Another point: as a native speaker of a language that has been slowly shifting toward another, more dominant language, I know for a fact that one's native language (first language, mother tongue) is not necessarily one's strongest language. A-giâu 21:36, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm a native German speaker, but I can read/write/speak English and French quite fluently, so I chose xx-3 for all languages. However, I agree with Duesentrieb and Pybalo that I'd rather emphasize the difference between my native language skills and the others. For example, as a professional translator, I never accept a paid job into languages other than German. On the other hand, I would have liked to include Dutch, 'cos I can read it fairly well, but I don't speak it. So, maybe four categories would be 1 reads 2 reads and speaks 3 reads, speaks and writes 4 native speaker. --wpopp 13:38, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

On MetaWiki you can also distinguish between xx-1 (basic), xx-2 (intermediate), xx-3 (advanced) and xx (native). I think that's pretty neat. The gap between an advanced level of language and native language might be relevant sometimes.

en	This user speaks English as the first language.

en-3	This user is able to contribute with an advanced level of English.

en-2	This user is able to contribute with an intermediate level of English.

en-1	This user is able to contribute with a basic level of English.

-- anon

As A-giau as already explained, a person's native language may not be his/her strongest language. My native language is Chinese, but I find reading and writing English easier and more natural. Language ability can wax and wane according to environment, and a person's native language is not immune. -- ran English talk|中文對話 18:50, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In any case, it seems people have been adding a lot of "native speaker" templates... without asking for consensus here. So should we adopt the 4-level system? -- ran English talk|中文對話 17:29, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

The problem with this approach is that there is not a category that lists native speakers of a given language because the root category of a user language contains the users of all levels. For example, Category:User en lists not only native English speakers but also users with basic, intermediate and advance level of this language. An option is to create a new set of categories for native speakers of a given language (for example Category:User en-* or Category:User es-*) and modifying the category of the corresponding user language template. --surueña 18:59, 2005 Apr 14 (UTC)

I do agree that being a native speaker does not necessarily imply that one is able to read and/or write that language perfectly. However, I guess that this is not the case for most people here, but I might be wrong. The English Wikipedia now introduced categories like en:Category:user de-N for people being native speakers of the German language. They also have a category en:Category:user de" containing all people that one might think can cope with German. This would be much better than the current situation. — Richie 23:31, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Redundancy of categories

Hay, those templates are neat. I love it and put them on my talk. But it is a bit redundant those templates are under two categories XX user and its subcategories XX user-somehow. Would you mind if we get rid of the former and only keep the latter subcategories?--Aphaia 15:38, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I can live with either option. The idea of the current style is that you can see all users that have some knowledge in a language in the Category:User en, and the detailed list in Category:User en-1/2/3. Thanks for fixing the Japanese templates by the way. -- Chris 73 13:51, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

My pleasure. By the way finally we make a distinguish between level-3 speakers and native speakers? --Aphaia 17:36, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

subcategories at Category:User de and Category:User en etc.

• The subcategoris at at Category:User de and Category:User en are now available "from start". This is achieved via [[Category:User de|(space)de-1]].
• Some wikipedias are using similar templates and categories. They can be linked from commons as done for sr:.
• Template:categoryTOC has been added to categories reaching the "200 title limit". Regards Gangleri | Th | T 20:31, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tag for users who do not understand english

User:David.Monniaux has suggested to use Template:User en-0 to tag users who do not understand english - have a look at the discussion at the village pump. This may be useful because people often assume that people here understand enough english to react to messages left on their talk page in english. This may lead to confusion when dealing with missing copyright infos ans such. I like the idea and propose to explain this tag on the Babel page.

On a related note, I would also suggest to discuss the native-speaker tags on the Babel page. People seem to use and like them, but there are still issues with the categorization scheme.

Regards -- Duesentrieb 15:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

When cleaning up lots of language-0 templates created by a vandale, de: also decided to leave en-0, for users who don't understand english, since it is common to try to contact people in English, if one doesn't know the project language. --Ikar.us 12:31, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Native speaker templates broke the category system

I have only recently noticed that "native-speaker tags" were created for some languages. Although I believe it is unnecessary (I have always understood xx-3 to be "native speaker or equivalent"), I don't really have anything against it.

Should they remain, the categories need to be corrected. Currently, Template:User en inserts the page into Category:User en, while Template:User en-3 inserts the user into both Category:User en and Category:User en-3. AFAIAA, Category:User en should list all users capable of communicating in English (no matter on which level). Therefore, we have currently no easy way to find all native speakers of English, which defeats the purpose of the babel categories altogether.

I see at least three possibilities here:

• get rid of Template:User xx and use just Template:User xx-3
• create a new Category, e.g. Category:User en-4 and use it in Template:User en
• reserve Category:User en for native speakers only and leave those "worse" in Category:User xx-# (a bad idea IMHO).

Ideas? --Mormegil 13:02, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

If you would have read some of the discussion above, you would have noticed that this was/is discussed earlier. I find a category Category:User en listing all people that can speak English to some degree, very useful. So I would introduce Category:User en-N like in en:Category:User en-N. However, there have been objections that being a native speaker does not necessarily mean that you are proficient in that language. — Richie 15:28, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

If "native speaker" automatically includes everyone raised in one of that language's countries, including people who get confused about the finicky points of grammar (such as practice/practise), maybe what we want is a better than just native category? Then again, maybe that's just what dictionaries are for.

---

I have read that, but it seemed to me that almost everyone was content with status quo, which I wasn't. So that I have created User xx-N categories for Czech, Slovak, and English. The English category is currently empty, since each respective user page will have to be touched for the category to update (see bugzilla:939); I have made that for cs and sk, which are small enough.

Other languages using {{User xx}} should do the same changes, IMHO. --Mormegil 14:07, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for creating these categories and "touching native speakers". I just touched all pages (i.e. users) containing Template:User en, so that they show up in Category:User en-N. I can do this for all other languages as well, since it's a bot. I'll try to introduce the category in some other languages as well. — Richie 22:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

de-N — Richie 22:21, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Classical Greek Users

There are templates for Classical Greek users here. Enjoy!

Need any more help?

Anyone who's read all of the above and still can't get their languages to display on all of their user-pages may try the "en" discussion, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Babel#How_to_get_it_working_on_other-language_user-pages and above it. Robin Patterson 06:45, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

People with only one language

Should people, like myself, who only speak one language add that language to their user page? It seems a bit pointless, unless a person not good at english wants me to check their spelling/grammar. Borb 26 June 2005 14:35 (UTC)

Yes, why not ? Yann 4 July 2005 17:33 (UTC)

I would... Those unfamiliar with the site might not know what language you speak in the first place, maybe. Virtuallytess (talk) 22:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

language code for tamil

There is no language code for tamil. How can I contribute for the language strings for tamil. Viyyer 3 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)

They don't exist yet, but go ahead:

ta

இப் பயனரின் தாய்மொழி, தமிழ் ஆகும்.

,

ta-1

இந்த பயனாளர் தமிழில் அடிப்படயான அளவில் பங்களித்து உதவமுடியும்.

,

ta-2

இந்த பயனாளர் தமிழில் இடைப்பட்ட அளவில் பங்களித்து உதவமுடியும்.

,

ta-3

இந்த பயனாளர் தமிழில் உயர்தரமான அளவில் பங்களித்து உதவமுடியும்.

. See also Template:Babel ta. Yann 4 July 2005 17:32 (UTC)

nds

Hi! I tried to put in a new template for babel nds-1. - I am sorry to say, that I am stuck with it... Could someone please take a look at it ? - If you look here Category:User nds-1 you will see, that the template is been linked instead of the user... Thanks for looking! --Sputnik 15:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Someone must have fixed something. Even the first version of Sputnik's user page looks OK now: http://nds.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bruker:Sputnik&diff=prev&oldid=23328
Robin Patterson 10:07:53, 2005-08-13 (UTC)

English equivalent page now has FOUR numbered levels

I don't know who agreed to it (though I imagine it is obvious to someone who reads the right one or more of two million WP page histories). I see the idea of a xx-4 level (meaning "native") was suggested on this talk page last year by User:Duesentrieb. The consensus of discussion then was that three were enough. Soon, however, it was reported that Meta had introduced a "native" category (right from its first appearance in February). I guess any of you who are interested have caught up with that development.

People who were wondering whether they should be "native" or "3" may now have to rethink, if the definitions have changed to allow for the insertion of "xx-4".

This whole idea originated here on Commons. Should we be pressing to have this wiki once again recognised as the "authoritative" discussion and policy wiki for the subject, so that we don't get another Tower of Babel with users copying different templates in the mistaken belief that they mean the same as others that look the same?

Robin Patterson 09:56:10, 2005-08-13 (UTC)

Well, we do have four levels. {{User en-1}}, {{User en-2}}, {{User en-3}}, and {{User en}}. I see someone independently created {{User en-4}}, which I'm about to go redirect. dbenbenn | talk 19:41, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Transfering Babel to another wikipedia

Hi, I'd like to bring the Babel system into hr.wikipedia.org, they don't use the system at all right now - how exactly can I do that, without creating all templates anew? I mean, they're all the same in all languages, as the sentence is in the target-language anyway. Can someone help me? --212.201.78.192 17:21, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

You have to copy the templates. There's no other way. dbenbenn | talk 19:36, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

User mad

Does anyone mind if I create the Mad Scientist template, like there is on Wikipedia? --Freiberg, Let's talk!, contribs 22:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Removing argument number

It's not clear to me which is the source version of this idea, En: or Commons, so I'll add the announcement here as well: I backported to En: the version of Babel used on Fy:. This version has the advantage that there's no need to add the number of arguments to the template name. See en:Wikipedia talk:Babel for details. Is there any interest in this improvement? Aliter 22:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can see, several of the "Babel" of templates being used already do without the "number" thing and have been doing so for months. Retaining it is a nuisance for people who decide to add or remove a language. I hope the most up-to-date versions can manage without it. Robin Patterson 12:35, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Babel on Meta

(Shouldn't Babel be on Meta, it being a multilingual issue? Aliter 22:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC))

It was copied to Meta:Meta:Babel templates three months after being invented here, with the following paragraph acknowledging its origin:

This attempt was started on Wikimedia Commons and this page incorporates a copy of 01:31, 11 Feb 2005 revision of Commons:Commons:Babel. The follwing Commons users contributed to that page: A-giâu, Aurevilly, Biekko, Briséis, Chris 73, Christian List, Dbenbenn, Farside, Guillermo Romero, Javier Carro, Kjell André, Nadavspi, Mschlindwein, Paginazero, Pybalo, Rui Malheiro, Shizhao, WeFt, Wikibob, Xillimiandus and some anoymous contributors.

Don't look for it on Meta:Babel or try to find it by entering "babel" in the search box and hitting "Go" - that redirects at present to meta:Meta:Babel, the village pump or coffeebar or watercooler.

Meta is for discussion of WikiMedia, whereas Commons is meant to be a source for all of WikiMedia and other MediaWiki sites. I stick to my opinion that this should try to have the latest version and be the standard. Maybe there are readers who know sufficiently more than I do to point out flaws in my thesis (but have not said anything here in the 4 months since I suggested it): if so, please speak up so that we make the best decision. Robin Patterson

Interproject policy proposal

I have drafted a proposal for an interproject Babel template standard at meta:Interproject Babel template standardization (proposal). Please review the proposal and improve and/or comment on it. —Ilmari Karonen 17:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I have looked at it. Excellent work. Robin Patterson 04:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew boxes

I hope no one would get mad at me =)
I took the liberty to edit the babel boxes and categories for the hebrew languagem by using hebrew-enligh:

he משתמש זה דובר עברית ברמת שפת אם	he-4 משתמש זה דובר עברית ברמה הקרובה לשפת אם	he-3 משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה מתקדמת של עברית
he-2 משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה בינונית של עברית	he-1 משתמש זה מסוגל לתרום ברמה בסיסית של עברית	he-0 משתמש זה אינו מבין עברית (או מתקשה בהבנת השפה)

Yuval Y 17:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Since it seems that I was the only one who made bilingual template, I've removed the english part. Oh well...
Yuval Y 17:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of category 4

In many languages, there are only descriptions for category 1-3. I myself have realise that it's difficult to translate "at a native level". I propose to replace it with "perfect" which is basically the same, but makes translations easier and might show the difference between N and 4 a tiny bit better.

Use the following templates on your user page:

• {{user en}} This user is a native English speaker.
• {{user en-4}} This user speaks perfect English. (This user speaks English at a native level.)
• {{user en-3}} This user is able to contribute with an advanced level of English.
• {{user en-2}} This user is able to contribute with an intermediate level of English.
• {{user en-1}} This user is able to contribute with a basic level of English.
• {{user en-0}} This person does not understand English.--Joschi 23:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a good distinction; it clarifies that, at en-4, one is not native to speaking English, but essentially speaks it as well as someone who speaks English as a native/first language. Nevertheless, the categories represent the same level of fluency, thus seem redundant. Virtuallytess (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Ascending/Descending

On the Meta the whole thing is native language-ascending. Here it is the other way round. And the complete Layout is different. Shouldn't we make them similar somehow?--Joschi 14:06, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Please join this Discussion on the Meta project.

Category of Babel

Isn't the Babel page rather a help page than a maintenance page? I would move it to Category:Commons help. I already deleted it from the Category:Users, because it is not a user page. Kind of regards --Godai2 14:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Updating Babel section & infos

Hi! I'm a new Wikipedian, neophyte with wiki tags/syntax.

As i was trying to start creating my own user page by adding userboxes, i've searched for wiki syntax. I came across various help & reference pages about userbox syntax & "parameters" (languages & level) in [Babel]. This was quite confusing, as copying the syntax did not seem to work. And then i've searched anew (before i did end up "bookmarking/favoriting" the reference pages), and came upon contradicting infos & pages with partial infos! (I came upon a userbox directory that had links to non-iso language "tags" & parameters, and many other userbox categories, but it did not contain any link to languages).

It does seem like a lot of redundant info is classified in various "categories" / directories, yet some of them are less complete or outdated. An example of the latter: "{{}}Babel|language-level{{}}" tag is now deprecated from server warnings! (I've closed brackets so no userbox would be created on this talk page.) Not to mention that its syntax in seems to be lacking the "user" portion. It should be complete, as such: "{{}}user language|user's language|level{{}}" or else specifying that "babelold" might be used instead of "Babel" or "language". Francsois (talk) 23:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Add Papiamento language

Can someone please add papiamento to the list (pap)? Richardprins (talk) 16:28, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Just grab a set of working templates with five levels xxx, xxx-4, xxx-3, xxx-2, xxx-1 (for the basic version, xxx-0 is optional, while xxx-5 or xxx-N are IMO bad ideas). Rename xxx to pap, fix the text to papiamento, then create the five (or six) pap-templates. The procedure is explained on the project page, please check that first. I was stupid enough to try this for tlh-0 using als as my reference. Expect about one hour of work until you are satisfied with the result. — Be..anyone (talk) 01:49, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Please add tlh

Please add [[m:History_of_the_Klingon_Wikipedia|tlh]] after [[:tl|tl]] to be rendered as tlh. — Be..anyone (talk) 01:49, 19 March 2011 (UTC) {{edit request}}

 Done --Mormegil (talk) 10:30, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. It is by far not the worst "officially ISO registered" language tag, but enough as bad example. -Be..anyone (talk) 00:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Extension:Babel

Extension:Babel is now live on all WMF projects. It is intended to replace the extensive ecosystem of {{Babel}} templates. Usage: eg {{#babel:nl|en-4|de-2|fr-1}}. The extension effectively makes Commons:Babel redundant; redlinked templates listed there are now not needed if #babel: is used. Rd232 (talk) 22:44, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Just for fun I tested s/babel|/#babel:/ on my page, and it worked "as expected".  Actually I expected it to fail for tlh‑0 (obscure language) and BG‑1 (no language at all, not the same as bg‑1), but it worked.  Maybe a bot could now replace Template:Babel on all user pages, FWIW. –Be..anyone (talk) 20:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

#babel malfunction

For years (?), months (?), weeks (?) #babel: worked for me, including {{User BG-1}}. Suddenly I get {{User bg-1}}. Switching back to {{babel}}, the extension is too fragile. The template also displays {{User tlh-0}} as expected; the extension showed only an English version of my Klingon gibberish. –Be..anyone (talk) 02:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

This issue is caused by or related to the creation of Category:User BG, now listed on Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2014/01 and its subpage Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2014/01/Category:User_BG. The research took less than 24 hours :-( –Be..anyone (talk) 12:54, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Missing languages

Even if many languages are there, I miss some languages in which Wikipedia exists and which I like to add. For example Northern Saami and Lower Saxonian. How can new languages be added with an appropriate code?--Laplandgerard (talk) 11:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

{{Babel}} does not support that many languages but Babel Extension can handle over 7.7k languages with ISO 639-1 code or ISO 639-3 codes. However I did not see those 2 on the list. I do not think we are planning to go beyond that list, so you might want to add those by writing a note on your user page. That way others can search for it. --Jarekt (talk) 17:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I think lower saxonian is nds (nd is an abbreviation of German nieder, that is lower.) I have it on my user page (with #babel again, I'm not sure why Jarekt fixed it to Template:Babel, apparently both work as expected even for nds and BG). –Be..anyone (talk) 09:04, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Be..anyone, I guess you are referring to this edit. You are correct a that {{#babel:de|en-3|nds-1|fr-1|tlh-0|BG-1}} and {{Babel|de|en-3|nds-1|fr-1|tlh-0|BG-1}} do produce similar results now. I no longer remember what I was "fixing" but according to the edit note I was under impression I was undoing edit done by my bot. As I recall it {{Babel}} and {{#babel}} did not always have the same outputs and there were some bug reports to make {{#babel}} case sensitive. At some point there was a push to retire {{Babel}} and I run a bot job to change many simple {{Babel}}s to {{#babel}}, I think I was under impression I was undoing that edit for cases where output of {{#babel}} differ from that of {{Babel}}. Sorry about it. --Jarekt (talk) 13:54, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I guessed that after I found old (2012) reports where #babel: failed. Your undo bot run wasn't prepared for pages where it had never done anything. :-) –Be..anyone (talk) 20:05, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

• Why can not I find the list of languages ​​Erzya? He is on the list. ISO 639-2: myv, ISO 639-3:myv Thank you for your help. Erzianj jurnalist (talk) 07:09, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request to add Arpitan

{{Editrequest}} Please add {{Babel frp}}. Thanks. Mapeh (talk) 12:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

 Not done this template is used for historical reasons. Please use {{#babel:frp}}

--Jarekt (talk) 03:06, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Avar language

There is not a category for avar (av) in Babel. Please, add this language who could. --Gazimagomedov (talk) 17:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

@Gazimagomedov: Could you please add the translations here: Template:Babel av? Regards, Yann (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

There is no need for Template:Babel av since it is used by {{Babel}} which is mostly kept for historical reasons. New users should use {{#babel:av}} which is already translated. --Jarekt (talk) 18:10, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Actually not yet true, because the since January 2014 case-insensitive #babel: does not grok the old {{User BG}} zoo as "bitmap graphics" and might also have issues with other {{User/Abilities}}. So far {{User bitmap-1}} and {{User bitmap-2}} exist as #babel: workarounds for BG-1 and BG-2. –Be..anyone (talk) 09:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Double entry

Could someone, please, look under the numbers 112 and 116 in the "Contents" of "Commons:Babel": there is a double entry for Serbo-Croatian - Srpskohrvatski/Српскохрватски language under number 116 that should be corrected (deleted).--Maestro Ivanković (talk) 00:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian Babel

Will there be Ancient Egyptian Babel? Xand2 (talk) 11:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

sd - Sindhi - سِنڌِي Sindhi language requires attention

Dear seniors Commons:Babel#sd - Sindhi - سِنڌِي requires your kind attention, so kindly insert user templates Arabic-Sindhi and Devnagiri-Sindhi script, which are not existed in this article, when you done kindly let me know so I can use it on Babel user information section of my commons.userpage. --Jogi don (talk) 09:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

@Jogi don: Hi, I added the templates with the Persian script, copied from the Sindhi Wikipedia, but I am not even sure it is the right text (Google Translate doesn't know Sindhi). Could you check please? Do you know where is the Devanagari version? Yann (talk) 10:49, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Yann Dear Yann, Google should provide Sindhi language support any one can ask them? and Thank you so much , I'm so much grateful to you that you worked for Sindhi template as well as categories, I have ammended the templates in required Arabic-Persian script of Sindhi language and used them on my Commons ueserpage as well and as for Devanagiri version you may have to visit this website Sindhi Devanagiri script ,Sindhi Devanagiri Keyboard online , Learn Sindhi, Sindhi Scripts links and search for Google i.e Sindhi Devanagiri Scipt online. God bless you.--Jogi don (talk) 11:33, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Jogi don: Hi,

No idea about Google. You will have to ask them. ;) I can type Devanagari, but that's not sufficient to write in Sindhi. ;o) Regards, Yann (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Yann i CAN'T unbderstand your That's not suuficient to write in Sindhi, what you want to say plz tell .--Jogi don (talk) 12:15, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Jogi don: Hi,

I know Hindi, so I can write in Devanagari, but I don't know Sindhi. And I don't know the Arabic/Persian script. Regards, Yann (talk) 12:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Yann Sindhi language can both be written in Arabic-Persian Script and Devanagiri Script which is same like Hindi script. Kindly see the links above which I have sent to you there you cam learn Sindhi in Hindi script as well.regards--Jogi don (talk) 12:37, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Jogi don: Yes, I know all that. My neighbours next door are Sindhi people. Regards, Yann (talk) 12:56, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Translation cantonese

Hello Babel, can you help me a translate in cantonese please? Smitersleon (talk) 10:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Hicham Amrani2016 (talk) 00:07, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Hicham Amrani2016 (talk) 00:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

ma hi Amrani2016 (talk) 00:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

السلام عليكم اليوم نفتح النقاش حول موضوع الارهاب الذي يضرب العالم والعراق بالاخص .هل العراق يحارب الارهاب نياية عن العالم

انا اقول العراق يحارب الارهاب نيابة عن العالم علي الجرواني (talk) 00:43, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Cebuano users

There is now a problem with the descriptive caption of each categories especially ceb-4 and ceb-N. Apparently it arises due to the expansion of classification from the original three-category classification into five-category classification. I suggest that the descriptive captions of these categories should be updated. Maybe into something like this:

• ceb-1 - Dili makamao mo-Binisaya.
• ceb-2 - Dili pa bansay mo-Binisaya.
• ceb-3 - Makasugakod mo-Binisaya.
• ceb-4 - Daw lumad mo-Binisaya.

• ceb-N - Lumad sa Binisaya.

  -Josefwintzent Libot (talk) 18:42, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

separate proficiency from preference

Simply put: Swedish is my native language, but I (strongly) prefer to discuss in English (except at the Swedish wikipedia, of course).

This is currently not supported by Babel. I had to remove my Swedish babel box, because people took it as an invitation to have discussions on my talk page in Swedish. I really wish to keep my English Wikipedia user talk page 100.0% in English.

I suggest we add a parameter to indicate preference. Something like "yes, I know Portuguese but please don't talk to me in that language unless absolutely necessary", say.

Especially when we indicate a high level of proficiency (4 or N). While a 1 can be taken to mean "I'm a rookie and don't feel comfortable talking in that language", there needs to be a way to say "Yes, I'm a 4 in Portuguese, but don't use that as an invitation".

Until such time, please realize that the only option I could find was to remove the proficiency altogether. CapnZapp (talk) 11:48, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Crosstalk: w:en:wikipedia talk:Babel#Request: a way to say "i know this language" but WITHOUT implied invitation to discuss in that language CapnZapp (talk) 11:54, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@CapnZapp: You are welcome to develop a template or a family of them to express your preference, per {{SOFIXIT}}. An additional reason for it could be to facilitate understanding by the majority of your talk page stalkers.   — Jeff G. ツ 12:45, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Please understand SOFIXIT is meant to refer to cases where fixing it would have been just as quick and easy than complaining about it (specifically, drive-by templating). Please do not assume editors have the skills to make more than common-sense "regular" edits; at least if you're gonna slap them with a template. Now, I trust we can continue this discussion without you demanding I do the work myself :-) Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 14:05, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@CapnZapp: I didn't mean to demand. I like the wording you suggested in the enwii talkpage, and I will work on a template, but not right now.   — Jeff G. ツ 14:43, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

What is the second bunch of babel-boxes good for?

There are babel-boxes at two places on the other side: At the two subchapters about the template and the extension, and below the tons of language codes. I fail to see any reason why the ones below are there at all. What purpose do they serve there, and why are they populated with that concrete language codes? Grüße vom Sänger ♫ ^(talk) 12:59, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Alphabet knowledge

Is there a way to indicate knowlede of an alphabet but without knowledge of a specific language. For example you might be able to read and identify kyrillic names but not be able to speak or understand Russian or another language that is written in cyrillic?--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 14:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Deprecation date

{{Edit request}} i need to include the date of the Deprecation date of the template — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zander101121 (talk • contribs) 14:17, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Zander101121: Template:Babel was deprecated in this edit 13:28, 3 August 2013, but we don't typically indicate dates of deprecation. See also COM:SIGN.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 14:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Language Request: BSL

Is there anyway to add a language for British Sign Language? I've seen other post talking about the proccess (Be..anyone on the post about Papiamento) - however the steps are very unclear and the "Add your Language" button on the Main Project page takes you to a uneditable page. ThatOneEli (talk) 19:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Since there are no Wikipedia pages in that language, why? 伟思礼 (talk) 16:41, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

@ThatOneEli what do you mean by "adding a language"? babel works for bfi. see https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Sandbox&oldid=890022678 . RZuo (talk) 17:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Definitions of proficiency levels

See also: mw:Extension:Babel#Usage.

Recently, a user at COM:AN was accused of not understanding an idiom despite claiming a near-native level of proficiency in that language. It got me wondering, what is a near-native level of proficiency anyway? One would think it is the closest you can get to it being your native language, but apparently not: there is another level in between, professional level. That level is not defined either, and nor is intermediate level. Brianjd (talk) 13:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Deprecation of Babel - implications for contributors

I'm still very new to all the wikimedia projects from a contributor side experience. I received an automated message on Wikimedia commons telling me I should add a babel template to my user page. Since I'm starting to learn about contributing on most of the wikimedia foundation projects, I decided to go add it first to my userpage on Meta. I have some ugly unrecognized text where clearly, Meta doesn't recognize the Babel template. I also see that Babel was deprecated around 10 years ago. Question 1: if Babel is deprecated, is it still considered appropriate to add languages I can communicate with and my levels of proficiency on all my wikimedia project user pages? Question 2: Is it generally acceptable to post a link to my main userpage on meta on all my subproject site userpages, to avoid possible outdated information on individual userpages? Question 3: if languages and user abilities are considered a preferable attribute for inclusion on one's personal userpages, what templates exist currently that are not deprecated? Thank you for your time. --Grayautumnday (talk) 17:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

@Grayautumnday ignore that. just follow Commons:Babel#Extension:Babel instead. RZuo (talk) 18:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! That helps a great deal. NRN, just appreciate the confirmation! Grayautumnday (talk) 01:38, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Comparison of proficiency scales

It looks like the proiciency scale is based on the US ILR.  If so, it might be useful to include a link to the formal definition of the levels: https://govtilr.org/Skills/Competence.htm 伟思礼 (talk) 16:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

And for users familiar with (or even certified in) another scale, perhaps add a reference to the equivalence in other scales, like https://understanding-academy.com/language-proficiency-frameworks-cefr-vs-actfl-vs-ilr/  I know that China and Japan each have their own testing/rating systems, and there may be others. 伟思礼 (talk) 16:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)